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@crazysmolbird
So we know they recorded the audience reactions to the live finale right? I've only seen a few clips but do you think they are/were planning to release them? Seems like a wasted opportunity if not.
... Unless the audience didn't react like they expected & makes their writing look bad
Didn't mean for this to be my first post of pride but uhhh... happy pride to these bozos ig :P
based on this sorta old post by @grassie-13 thats been sitting in my notes app for like 3 months
david harbour doesnt believe el is alive!!!! this is such suspicious phrasing, “in my world” SORRY?
As much as I love to joke about Mike being a demogorgon, I actually dislike any theories that place Mike at the center of all supernatural, because I think that goes against the core of his character. The important thing about Mike is that there's nothing special about him. That's his main conflict. That's why he started dating El in the first place. He thought that dating a cool girl with superpowers would make him cool too, but as it turned out, you can't really brag about a girlfriend whose existence you can't even tell anyone about because she's hiding from the government. And his friends couldn't care less about their relationship too. To them, El is El, and Mike is still the same Mike they've always known, except now he's even more annoying. He also knows that the only reason El "chose him" was because she simply needed someone, and he happened to be the first person she came across. That's why he's so fixated on being needed by the people he cares about, and feels useless when they don't need him, since he believes that's his only value.
Do you believe anything good actually came out of Stranger Things being made, besides it launching a few acting careers?
I'm really struggling to find a silver lining, because I think that the show ended up causing a lot of harm. They promoted homophobia, misogyny, and racism. They queerbaited to a degree that had never been seen before - which means media creators will know they can push it that much further now, and take advantage of that many more people.
They promoted redpill ideology.
They promoted fat shaming and bullying people because of their body types.
They promoted second screen viewing.
The quality of every aspect of the show - from the writing to the CGI - was subpar in every single way. And given how popular the show was, that means the bar will fall to some degree.
I just really don't see anything positive that has come out of it. It seems like a loss across the board.
As pissed off as I will always be about how this all turned out, I will say that the Duffers did one thing right.
Dustin easily had the most well-handled story out of all the characters. His relationships were realistic and genuine, his grief manifested in a painfully accurate manner, and, up until his behavior at graduation, at least, he was very consistent with his values and beliefs.
He also wasn't reduced to a single aspect like his fellow party members. Mike became El's boyfriend who was bad with feelings, with most of his dynamic and intelligent traits coming in flashes here or there. Lucas became Max's boyfriend (though much better at feelings), seemingly having given up sports rather than having learned that a nerdy jock can be a thing. Will's interest in art was barely present in season 5 and didn't factor at all into his ending, leaving him to just be "the gay one."
But at least Dustin was able to be a multi-faceted character with consistent development right through to the end (even if I take issue with him even giving Stacy the time of day, let alone actually wanting to go to her party). I suppose even the Duffers couldn't screw up everything.
*sighs*
The Duffers sure believe in it. Lumax was more or less love at first sight, and they all but confirmed that Mike and El would've ended up married if not for El "needing to die."
Yet Mike and Will having a relationship building from a lifetime of friendship had nothing even hinting at it and was never in the cards.
I guess it exists, but only for straight people. But, then again, romantic love is only for straight people to begin with. Gay people just have crushes and lust. At least according to the Duffers.
Such stupid bullshit.
I just dont understand how Mike saying "I loved you right then and there" makes any sense. I am not even saying love at first sight cannot happen, it can irl sometimes and it is used in fiction. But for Mike abd Eleven, it doesnt make sense because we can see their love wasnt love at first sight. It completely goes against the established logic of the story.
Simply put, it's either a retcon or just plain bad storytelling.
There was no established "love at first sight" or anything of the sort. Mike was disappointed initially when he found El because he was trying to find Will. He had no initial interest in her until he thought she could help them find him. He wanted to keep her safe, yes, especially after learning the "bad men" were looking for her. But none of that changes the fact that his original plan was for her to be "sent back where she came from."
This isn't some knock on their relationship. It's simply a statement of fact. Everything that could be even remotely described as love developed after the fact. So, yes, "I knew right then and there that I loved you" is a load of bullshit. Either Mike was lying to try to make up for his previous inability to say it, or the Duffers are just disingenuous hacks who don't know their own story and characters well enough to build a story with continuity.
I know where I'd put my money.
Little wonder that so many people, myself included, thought this all to mean that Mike was just telling El what he thought she wanted to hear. The fact that he was intended to truly be in love with her from the beginning is some really screwed up storytelling, especially considering he met her while searching for Will and he said this right in front of him.
Nevermind all his weird behavior from the end of season 3 to the finale. It was only because he was insecure and thought he wasn't good enough for her, so, naturally, she would leave him someday.
Nevermind that all of their interactions when they're not in a dangerous, stressful situation are forced and awkward.
Nevermind that Mike treated Will like he should have treated El all along, while Will was also written to be in love with Mike.
Somehow, it makes far more sense for Mike to have fallen for El the moment he laid eyes on her and to have known her better than anyone than for Mike and Will to share a deep friendship that could have grown into something more.
I just know david bowie would not have approved of his song being used in the st finale... specially after all that
Don't forget Freddie Mercury. It may have only been used in a trailer, but I doubt he would've liked how one of his songs was used for this straight pride parade of a show.
We are not crazy.
No, we are crazy, but it's only because the Duffers are stupid. They drove us insane.
Who leaves these types of villain foreshadowing clues in the epilogue?
They spent one whole season (more imo) setting up and focusing on Will being secretly in love with Mike, then set up the lie about the painting that was never resolved, spent half of the new season making Will have RANDOM hope (after years) that Mike likes him back, made Will have superpowers and save Mike and focus the memory that he has that gives him the strength to use these powers on Mike and Will as if to visually say that the love he has for Mike helped him to reach this powerful state to save his life (and this was said also by many of the GA that thought that that scene was insanely ROMANTIC and thought that byler was going to become canon because of it. because in any straight story where something like that happens the couple gets together.) only to then do a complete inversion of everything and make Will call it just ''a crush'' and immediately accept that Mike is actually ''straight'', and he should just limit himself to being the couple therapist for Mike and El's nonsensical relationship... prompted by? ''visions from the villain'' that we never even saw to understand this change of direction... ridiculous writing behavior. I don't understand how anybody could be serious about this and especially not being a professional screenwriter, you have something deeply wrong in your brain to think this is a normal plot to propose to your viewers
It's especially bizarre because the conversation he has with Robin just hours earlier suggests that he's preparing himself to shoot his shot and ask Mike out. Which would have been the logical path to take. Even if Mike was straight/still dating El/just uninterested in dating Will (none of which make narrative sense but I digress,) Mike deserved to know who the painting actually came from and to decide for himself if he wanted a relationship with Will, and Will deserved the opportunity to be open about his feelings.
This is part of the larger problem within Stranger Things. In the later seasons, every character's actions are dictated not by what the character would reasonably do or what has been built up, but what best supports plot convenience. The Duffers wanted the people who were rooting for Mike and Will to end up together (which was a considerable portion of their audience) to continue watching the show. So Will was being encouraged to keep pursuing a potential relationship with Mike - whose feelings and relationship status with El were left intentionally ambiguous.
Then when the eleventh hour struck and the Duffers could no longer straddle the "will they /won't they" line, Will suddenly decided he'd only had a crush on Mike that he was now completely over.
It doesn't really matter if people personally wanted Mike and Will to end up together or not. This is just one of many examples of the Duffers drawing out plot lines unnecessarily, then rushing to give them resolutions at the last moment - resolutions that are unsatisfying and often nonsensical. This is objectively bad writing.
This all still makes me angry.
The fact that the monologue was supposed to represent the truth is honestly baffling to me because wdym Mike's life started when he found El? Like okay love confessionsncan be messy and over the top, these are teens we are talking about also. But what were the duffers really thinking? They actually thought that was some epic monologue and a dramatic lovers scenario. Not even mentioning the fact that Mike's life really started after Will disappeared. And they didnt even discuss about the monologue after the fact. Honestly idk how people can accept this kind of writing.
It'd be laughable if it weren't so sad.
The Duffers supposedly let Finn ad lib that entire monologue. I don't know just how true that is, but it would at least explain how nonsensical it is. It really only works when taken as a desperate act by Mike to save El by telling her what she wants to hear. That it was meant to be taken as truth is not only not true, but it's also cruel.
Will is standing right there next to Mike as Mike talks about his life starting when he met El. Not only is Will in love with him, and not only did he sacrifice his own feelings to encourage Mike to make things right with El, but he is now listening to Mike say that the best day of his life was when he lost Will.
Will already felt like he was being replaced by El in Mike's life, and now here is Mike pretty much confirming it. Knowing now that nothing out of the ordinary happened between seasons 4 and 5, it makes the situation even more ridiculous that Will ends up feeling like he suddenly has a shot with Mike.
Then you have Mike and El, who present as awkward and out of touch, at best, in season 5. There's no romance, and they really come off acting like friends at the beginning. They show little concern for each other during dangerous situations. El is focused on her mission and Kali after she finds her. Mike is focused on Will and finding Holly. Hell, the Duffers had to go and separate Mike and El for half the season to try to hide the fact that their dynamic just doesn't work, only for us to get that horrendous void scene out of nowhere and cram a relationship that never worked down everyone's throat.
The writing is just bad. There's no care to ensure continuity of characterization between seasons. Any development that had been made is simply thrown away in favor of what is needed for the present storylines. Seriously, we should all just avoid any and all projects linked to the Duffers.
you know you done goofed when you have the onion writing a satirical article about how you don't rewatch the previous seasons of your own show in preparation for the next one, and then having a lot of people actually believing that bcuz it would atl explain the continuity errors and inconsistent characterization
Oh, God, I forgot about that.
You know you did or said something that was truly ridiculous when The Onion does a piece on it.
Maybe the only reason that season 2 was good was because they had a lot less information to forget about.
how they were moving around during ST5 promo
The PR machine did a lot of heavy lifting because the writer's room decided to make season 5 their rest day.
BECAUSE WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
"iT wAs NeVeR eVeN hInTeD!"
It's mind boggling that they can sit there and act confused that we came to the conclusions that we did.
how they were moving around during ST5 promo
The PR machine did a lot of heavy lifting because the writer's room decided to make season 5 their rest day.
well that's fucked up
redraw from "cyrano de bergerac" play
oh my fucking god this is phenomenal. cyrano de bergerac is a brilliant play and the painting in s4 will always haunt me because it was such a blatant usage of the cyrano trope but was never resolved :(
also, the symbolism of el's hair falling into will's making them look an extension of each other because mike is using el as a societally acceptable substitute for will... wow
