The thing abt mha is a lot of the main hero characters are really charming but I am unable to put my whole heart into loving them bc horikoshi is a shit writer and makes them genuinely unlikable with some of the things they believe in and support
I hate how much hori turned Izuku to an uninspiring character at the end and took away any agency he could have had in his own story. At the end, it feels like everything is just handed to him without him putting any effort in his own life.
Like, I still can't believe he made him give up and not doing anything for 8 years to be a hero and wait for OTHERS to decide that for him... and just hand him a billion dollar suit with their own money and hardwork. Like Izuku himself had zero contribution to sth that has always been his dream. And the worst part is that characters who lost limbs or had severe injuries still worked hard to be a hero but not Izuku...if disabled ppl could use support gears to be a hero, then quirkless Izuku should too. He didn't have to be at ofa level, the guy just wanted to save lives. Unless if the story is pretending being quirkless is worse than being chronically disabled, which would be very insensitive.
I personally would respect it more if he rejected the suit because that would show his agency: "I would have been a hero myself if I wanted to, I just chose not to because I find being a teacher more valuable. This is my decision."
Then there's his teaching career. He quickly became a teacher after graduation with a high school diploma, without getting any specific education or training. (being a teacher to teenagers with high ego and strong quirks is a delicate matter, it does need more education. Ua only prepare them to be pro heros, so yeah extra measures were necessary). Another career that is just handed to him. And aizawa who isn't really a strict teacher himself (and that caused some problems) says Izuku isn't strict with his students... Which says it all at how unprepared he is for being a teacher in such a special school.
And ofc after he gets the suit it's like an UNDO button. He suddenly is at peak ofa level and the story doesn't consider that he doesn't have 8 years of experience his peers gained all these years, suddenly he's on their level by a handed suit, once again not putting any effort. And then the ranking that shouldn't even exist anymore, becomes important to the narrative to the point hori drops a whole chapter to just say he's #4 (thanks to the suit others have created for him).
Even his relationships too, him not putting much effort anymore but he has all ppl being devoted to him and constantly being worried about him.
I just really hate what hori did with his ending. I know this is how shonen and mcs are but it should have some limits.
If it was just this dialogue about trampling on Shimura’s memory, it would be hard to blame Gran Torino too much. At least Gran Torino is criticizing Shigaraki for his actions here. (Even though on some level, Gran Torino had to be aware that Shigaraki was manipulated by All for One to some degree.) Given that Shigaraki recently regained his memories, in another world this could have been the start of a good conversation. Shigaraki obviously recognized that family name and knew his grandmother was a hero.
But this is where Gran Torino was out of line. Blaming Shigaraki for his own existence was absurd. Shigaraki (or anyone else) is not responsible for his own existence. To say Shigaraki’s actions brought suffering to others would simply be a statement of fact. To claim Shigaraki’s existence brought suffering is to say Shigaraki was inherently an irredeemable villain.
All trappings of a potential mutual conversation disappeared, and this turned into a one-sided rant from Gran Torino. Unlike Shimura Nana, Shigaraki had no idea who Toshinori was. They could talk about the morality of his actions, but there was nothing to say if his existence itself was the problem.
On another note, Gran Torino’s generation of heroes had a particularly narrow definition of “everyone” that appears to only include heroes and some civilians. The heroes had to plan a massive operation because Shigaraki had so many allies at this point. This wouldn’t have been necessary if it were true that Shigaraki only brought suffering to everyone else.
The good plot twists aren't the ones that are wild left turns out of nowhere, they're the ones that make all the other little things that didn't quite add up before suddenly click
While the fate of the League is of course incredibly messed up, unfair, and infuriating; something that really grinds my gears is all the reactions to the League stans calling this unfairness out by going "well they had to die and deserved to, and they would have gone to prison otherwise anyway, it's not like there was any happy ending available for these horrible criminals," when, like...yes there was. They totally could have Vegeta'd it up in here; MHA is not a realistic series.
Like, Edgeshot survived using his own body to sew a guy's heart up by living as an eyeball with hair on a string.
Endeavor, the known horrible domestic abuser and outright rapist, is retiring publicly shamed (to an extent) but still to great wealth, recognition as a great hero, and with his entire free family having at least a positive opinion of the man.
And of course this latest chapter 429 implied that all those societal failings caused by the horrible MHA civilians neglecting or attacking people including children, the failings that created the League, the failings the League put their lives on the line to fix and utterly failed to fix because they all died completely ignored...got fixed anyway because Deku was so 'zomg inspirational' that suddenly the MHA civilians aren't horrible anymore. (Read in the tone of this video.)
In short, MHA is full of ridiculousness, injustice, and contrivance when Horikoshi wants a happier ending to occur.
But the League had to die because...because MHA is a deeply flawed story with bad writing and at best inconsistent morals. (And it kind of feels good to say that.) It wants at times to be realistic and even tragic, but it also wants to be optimistic and comic book-y to reward the heroes, and here at the end those elements do not mesh at all. It wrecks the whole thing to reveal that Hori might be kind of a hack.
One of my mutuals has been reblogging Togachaco or Togaraka or whatever you wanna call it, and some of the posts gave me Opinions. For instance, I don't think a roleswap AU really works with them. Ochaco can be turned into a villain, but Toga can't be a hero.
Toga's whole thing is that she has a creepy Quirk. Drinking blood is gross, turning into your friend is creepy. So she's forced to suppress her Quirk, which she can't do forever, which leads to her being ostracized, which leads to her becoming a villain.
There are two possible Himiko Togas. (Himikos Toga?) One is what we see in canon—an outcast, ready to be recruited by any group or cause that'll accept her. The other is a Toga who successfully conforms to societal expectations, who masks and acts Normal and gets a Good Job.
There are two reasons the second Toga can't be a hero like Ochaco. One is that Ochaco is too honest. She's not a rebel, but she's not a hidebound rule-follower or an aloof ice queen. Conformist Toga could take the role of Iida or maybe Todoroki, but not Ochaco's.
However, the bigger reason is that Conformist Toga is predicated on not using her Quirk. Her character only works if her Quirk is socially unacceptable; even if those norms are lifted for a superhero (even if her Quirk has no obvious combat applications), Toga would never have had a chance to practice using her Quirk before becoming a superhero.
I can imagine an AU where Conformist Toga is, I dunno, a secretary for some superhero, or a civil servant somewhere in the justice system, or someone else hero-adjacent who encounters Villain Ochaco, who convinces Toga to take off her mask and discover who she really is.
But a superhero? A Toga who was allowed to be a hero can't be Toga.
As someone who comes from a country where insecurity is a big problem (to the point where people can’t transit from one place to another without being victimized in some ways), I will explain why I found the portrayal of the villains’ actions as whitewashing, specifically the LOV. One of my biggest issues is the lack of focus on their impact of their actions, specifically on the civilians. Their victims and by extension, their family members’ victims are either downplayed narratively speaking or portrayed in a unflattering light. The key example would be Kaito. He’s only used as a mere prop for Toga’s backstory. Another issue is the lack of focus on the impact of their actions, particularly in the civilians daily life. We don’t see civilians having issues with living in a city without being victimized (robbery, murder, etc), especially during Act 3, and when it does, the focus is extremely little. There’s little focus on people having genuine fear in living in the city and dealing with curfews, usually imposed by criminal groups. Unfortunately, this is sometimes reflected in how LOV is generally discussed. I have seen people downplaying their actions or even justifying them.
Sorry for the late reply.
I'm sorry about your country's problems and I understand you wanted BNHA handle things differently. I've been thinking long and hard to what I could reply but I doubt whatever I will say will satisfy you anyway I still wanted to try to give you my two cents.
I hope it is okay if I've split this in points
WHY HORIKOSHI DO NOT BOTHER PORTRAYING INSECURITY
Japan is the exact opposite of your country, Japan is considered one of the safest countries in the world and this ireflects in Horikoshi's work, in fact the population, despite the Villains going around, feels safe, believes Heroes will save them, the people in BNHA even handle Villain attacks like shows and stop there to watch or wear masks of the Hero killers.
THESE PEOPLE ARE SURE THEY WILL BE SAVED SO THEY BELIEVE THEY HAVE NOTHING TO FEAR.
And, interesting enough, it is Tomura who points it out, who doesn't understand why they are so sure they could be saved, because Tomura isn't just a Villain, he is also a victim that wasn't saved and believes the world is unsafe because, for him, it was.
In what for us is ironic, the Villains are actually the ones who most resembles the victims as we know them, the ones that were traumatized by living in an insecure place with no Hero coming to save them and they are a minority.
Normal people do not want that, they see no reason to change the world, they see no danger, society as it is, it's fine for them because Heroes will save the day. They have blind faith in them.
But Horikoshi went a step further than that. When society in act 3 crumbled he didn't focus on how it crumbled because it was actually flawed. He focused on how IT SHOULD NOT HAVE CRUMBLED BECAUSE PEOPLE SHOULD HAVE CONTINUED TO HAVE FAITH IN HEROES, keep calm, continue to support the Heroes and do as the government say.
The Heroes have a plan, the Heroes had shelters, they should just be supportive and obedient and blindly do what the government say.
It brings me images of the Japanese people during WW2, which were notable for displaying a profound, state-enforced commitment to national sacrifice, bearing obediently the harsh conditions, the bombing, the extremely scarce food rations with unwavering faith in the state and in the ultimate victory.
It also reminds me of Gaman.
‘Gaman’ (我慢) is a Japanese term of Zen Buddhist origin which means “enduring the seemingly unbearable with patience and dignity”. The term is generally translated as “perseverance”, “patience”, or “tolerance”. A related term, ‘gaman-tsuyoi’ (我慢強い), a compound with ‘tsuyoi’ (強い “strong”), means “suffering the unbearable” or having a high capacity for a kind of stoic endurance.
Gaman is variously described as a “virtue”, an “ethos”, a “trait”, etc. It means to do one’s best in distressed times and to maintain self-control and discipline.
Gaman tends to be misperceived by the non-Japanese as introverted behavior or as a lack of assertiveness or initiative, but for Japanese people is a demonstration of strength in the face of difficulty or suffering. Gaman is, in Japanese society, closely related to complying with conformity and silent heroism, which seems to be hidden pride for compensation for sacrifice and being satisfied to pay reciprocal service in advance or to being seen themselves as victims by folks. Showing ‘gaman’ is seen as a sign of maturity and strength. Keeping private affairs, problems and complaints silent demonstrates strength and politeness as others have seemingly larger problems as well. If a person with ‘gaman’ received help from someone else, they would be compliant, not ask for any additional help, and voice no concerns.
If a person fails to have/show ‘gaman’, the result could be a sudden manifestation of aggression.
Long story short, Horikoshi' deliberately decided that, despite the situation, society wouldn't be portrayed as insecure, that who would fall prey to insecurity, negative feelings or unwillingness to cooperate would be portrayed negatively because they should just bear the situation, cooperate and have unfailing faith in the Heroes/government and he didn't do so to absolve the Villains but because he believes this is how people has to behave.
Whoever doesn't is bad.
You are only allowed to be a perfect victim, just good won't cut it.
The Villains are, in the end the ultimate victims who failed to behave as perfect victims, failed to have gaman and turned against society.
The only concession he does to victims is that it is easier to act like he says victims should act if they also get some help.
Do I like this message he wants to spread?
Nope, I quite hate it, but his message isn't based on Horikoshi trying to downplay what the Villains do, it is based on him believing the behavior people/victims should keep is only of a certain kind and whoever can't keep it is wrong when it's not outright bad.
ARE VICTIMS DOWNPLAYED?
While the story do not focus on ALL THE VICTIMS OF VILLAINS, it actually focuses on some of them, who are considered relevant.
True, as this is a story about Heroes and Heroes in training most of the victims belong to those two groups or are related to people belonging in those two groups but they are still victims.
We have All Might, seriously wounded by AFO, Bakugou, who is victim of the Sludge Villain, something that is remarked more than once through the story, the whole class A which is attacked by Villains at the USJ, iida, whose brother is attacked by a Villain, Midoriya who is taken obstage for a short while by Tomura, Kouta, whose parents were murdered by Muscular and who was also attacked by Muscular, class A & B, who were attacked by Villains at teh school campus, Bakugou, taken as obstage, Ragdoll, kidnapped and whose Quirk was stolen, Eri, Sir Nighteye who gets murdered, Rock Lock, who gets wounded, Giran, kidnapped and maimed (and yes, he is a Villain but he is still a victim of another Villain group), Shirakumo, who got killed, Midnight who met the same end (along with a bunch of Pro the story didn't really care to develop) and, I would remark, the Todoroki family is a victim of Touya's actions as Japan will not treat kindly people who is related to a Villain.
Yeah, the story hardly talk about Saito (not Kaito, his name is Saito) because YES, Saito exists for the sake of Himiko's backstory, which is extremely summarized and has no need to dig on Saito because that story is used twice and meant to explain us how and why Himiko, who was supposedly a normal girl, became a Villain.
We couldn't have Himiko becoming a Villain without her committing a crime, hence Saito gets stabbed. It could have been anyone, really, because we are talking about Himiko here, about how and why she became a Villain, not about civilians getting victimized by Villains. And, interesting enough, we get to hear the voices of Himiko's classmates, of Himiko's parents (as I said Japan isn't kind to relatives of Villains) so it's not like victims do not get a voice, but victims weren't the purpose of those flashbacks.
In a story where the Villains are meant to be more than MOB characters, a random personification of evil, you have to spend time flashing them out.
This is not downplaying the Villains' actions, this is just making them characters.
Victims have plenty of representation already by the time we get to hear that Saito got stabbed.
Yes, their representation was shaped according to Horikoshi's beliefs so we see how Iida's wish of revenge is portrayed negatively, how class A and B, being true Heroes get over the trauma of having been attacked by Villains like they wound to an unpleasant tumble, how Kouta is basically taught he should just apprecciate Heroes and the fact his parents died to save people because, and I quote "there's no better way for Heroes to meet their end, an honorable death".
Actually in an OAV and in a School Brief sidestory short after the USJ attack U.A. High teachers pretend they are being attacked by Villains again because the kids have to learn to overcome the trauma of being attacked, by being forced to bear more trauma.
And, of course, it doesn't help that the rewarding system for Heroism in Horikoshi's story ERASES part of the Villains' actions, so that Bakugou actually doesn't die and Edgeshot's body is restored and Tensei eventually can go back being a Hero and so on.
Still we see plenty of people mourning, suffering, crying because Villains did hurt people.
If readers do think that Midoriya's mom being scared to death for her kid because he was attacked by villains do not matter, if they think Iida's pain for what happened to his brother do not matter do not matter, if they think that Mirio and the others crying over Nighteye's death do not matter, if they think little Eri going basically through captivity and torture do not matter, well, no amount of crying victims telling their own sad story of victimhood would manage to influence them.
DO NOT PORTRAYING THE IMPACT OF THE VILLAINS' ACTIONS DOWNPLAY THEM?
Maybe this comes with me not being anymore a kid and having experience with things but I do not need to see/hear the victims of an action to know that crimes hurt people.
I can very well picture in my mind what poor Saito should have felt when he was stabbed by a classmate, and I probably would even picture his reaction and his life with the trauma in a way that is worse than the one Horikoshi would use as I don't think trauma can be easily brushed away just by hearing a teenager girl sing a song about how she wants to be a Hero too (I am referring to the scene in which Eri overcomes her trauma because she hear Jiro sing).
I know what Himiko did to him wasn't right, that it hurt him, his family, his friends, her family, her friends.
On the other side, this is a story, not real life.
BNHA isn't the accurate portrayal of a real life story.
I do not have to care about Saito because all the characters in this story merely exist TO ENTERTAIN READERS. Their success but also pain, their victimhood exits TO ENTERTAIN READERS.
Saito's existence in the story merely as a mob character those use is to give Himiko a backstory is entirely valid. He shouldn't be handled like a real victim of a crime because he doesn't exist. There is no need to offer to someone who doesn't exist our sympathy, like we would do for a real person who were victim of a stabbing attempt.
People are free to feel indifferent toward him or hate him and wish Himeko had stabbed him harder because they should be capable to differentiate between fiction and real life and can wish on him everything or not to care about him at all, which would be a horrible thing to do in regard to a real person who instead DO NOT EXIST FOR THEIR ENTERTAINMENT.
And this is also why people is more focused on the LOV than on their MOB victims. The LOV is simply way more interesting to discuss, as characters and AS VICTIMS OF A SOCIETY THAT IS PORTRAYED AS DEEPLY FLAWED since it condones abuse of children and discrimination, which, by the way, in some countries are also viewed as crimes so the Villains are perceived not as the only criminals in the story.
There's more I could say but I fear I've talked already too much of a topic you probably weren't interested in exploring so I apologize if I wasted your time and taking so long in replying you, and I also thank you for clarifying your statement.
Short of actually destroying everything, most of what the league of villains did was justified.
Because what else were they going to do??
The heroes and the government they serve are the absolute power and influence of MHA's world.
And it's a world that's been tailor made to see anyone that's different, threatening or just hard to deal with as a monster or a nuisance to cast out.
From the higher ups, pro heroes, (most of) the hero students and all the random civilians we see throughout the series -
- Once they see you as a villain, without even knowing why you are a villain, all of them want you gone.
So no, there were no "other paths" most of the Lov could have taken.
Especially since most of the Lov were branded villains and left without any real help before they even left their late teenage years.
Depending on your situation, the only thing that enduring or being the "perfect victim" is going to do is get you killed.
That's the real reason why the status quo of society always tends to push that message so much in hero stories that are tied to the government/social powers.
Because it's far more convenient for them to deal with the less fortunate and outcasts when those people refuse to fight back.
Far too many stories and other fiction works have been spreading that message and it's not good.
You're not honoring yourself or people like you by suffering in silence or with "dignity".
You're only helping the people who already didn't care about you or your suffering and wanted you to disappear quietly for their benefit.
Praising a sentiment like that is the last thing a hero should do.
He's literally telling the victims of every demographic the Lov covers to behave and pray for rescue when you're still a child or get fucked.
But of course this standard doesn't apply to the mass murdering government assassin (Lady Nagant), because as long as all of it can be swept under the rug and society doesn't know any better, it's fine, right??
Horikoshi had no real concept or understanding of anything he was writing about and just preached some "take the high ground" bullshit that doesn't even make sense in the setting that he established.
And he called it a heroic, hopeful and optimistic story.
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