Product Placement
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@dawannabebritt
Ivan: I just don't think Starkov is good for you, moi sovereyni. Aleksander: But of course she's good for me, Ivan! She checks all the boxes! Fedyor: Just what boxes are those, general? Aleksander: Is the Sun summoner, is willing to stand up to me, honest, stays by my side, dislikes Baghra... Ivan: ... Fedyor:... Aleksander: ...So I don't have a lot of boxes...
just thought that the tale of the Too-Clever Fox could be interpreted like "don't try to make things better", that fits really nice in the bigger grishaverse narrative (about which you talked in post about Bagra, Alina, etc), that only inaction is good and iniciative is ultimately evil
and just how fucked up the author must be to write, even accidentally and subconsciously, such narrative
Very interesting interpretation. Haven't looked at it that way. (omg you remembered my post about Baghra? I'm blushing).
There is definitely a message of "don't overreach", even if the said "overreaching" is just an effort to help your people. I don't remember the details but I think the fox was trying to figure out who the hunter who was killing animals in the forest was, right? And he nearly got skinned because he thought he could outsmart the hunter. Might be just my good natured approach, but the message I took was "no matter how clever you think you are, no one is immune to loneliness." Since the trap the real hunter used was loneliness. That's how she lured the animals.
To be fair, the Darkling did fall for the loneliness trap. He got hopeful too soon and decided that Alina would see reason and follow along. But people don't always see reason and you can't just teach them to care about things. Alina didn't care about Grisha struggles, genocide, their liberation and extinction being on the line, the revolution, Ravka being threatened by two countries, collapsing economy, etc. She was all too glad to leave everything up to an idealist picaroon (avanturist. Shame this word doesn't exist in English, it describes Nikolai charming Alina and using her forces to get the throne perfectly). Nikolai did have potential to be like Peter the Great, a historical figure which he is based on, a relentless driving force which would restore Ravka. But his character got flattened in KoS duology. Him being a clever politician while having an experienced advisor and a proper general like the Darkling would be *chef's kiss*.
There is no greater example for advising inaction in Grishaverse than in Shadow and Bone trilogy. (Once again, Alina neglecting her responsibilities and never showing any compassion for her people is not the same as Katniss settling down after the war.) I actually love The Language of Thorns. It's my favorite book in Grishaverse. It still baffles me to this day that she wrote those fairytales with a dark twist so cleverly but then went and wrote KoS duology with that many plot inconsistencies and half-baked conflict resolutions. Maybe Leigh Bardugo having a ghost writer rumors are true after all.
On the topic of the destruction of Fold causing more harm than good. Firstly, there were blights, which were not only a threat to Ravka, but the whole world because it was not exactly contained. At least the Fold stayed the same for centuries in one place and the creatures couldn't leave it. Secondly, why was destroying the Fold such a necessity?
East Ravka needed access to the outside world somehow? Let's break it down. They couldn't produce everything on their own and trade nothing. They couldn't circle around the Fold through Fjerda or Shu-Han because they were enemy countries but to be fair, the Darkling was King for like two days and managed to strike a deal with Fjerda to allow passage for food and supplies because Nikolai was bombing them and causing the people to starve. So the previous useless Kings were 100% the problem and negotiations could be done. But the point is, West Ravka was fine on its own because they had access to the sea. It was East Ravka that needed the West because it was essentially trapped from three sides: Fold, Fjerda, Shu-Han. But then again, the author forgot the Earth isn't flat so East Ravka would still have access to the sea from the fourth side. They could go to Novyi Zem and Kerch that way and trade with them just fine.
The only reason the Fold was a problem because east Ravka was divided from the west. And while trading with Novyi Zem and Kerch would be easy, they'd have to go around the whole world to reach west Ravka. Ipso facto, destruction of the Fold served only one purpose, which was "uniting" the country. That purely seems like just a selfish reason for Tsars to hold onto their power in both sides of the country when the west Ravka hadn't needed the east in centuries and realistically would've established itself as a separate country a long time ago. So why didn't that happen? Because the Fold wasn't even that much of a threat or a problem! Ordinary people could still hire skiffs and travel through the Fold just fine! Close relatives still lived on either side of it and visited each other regularly. West Ravka didn't declare itself a separate nation because the Tsar was perfectly capable of sending a part of the first and second army through the Fold to squash the rebellion. And let's be honest, it was most likely Grisha they were scared of, not the first army.
In conclusion, destroying the Fold was a waste during that time. They couldn't even get rid of it properly and had to drag Darkling in to clean up the mess in RoW. In SoB, once the Darkling obtained control over the Fold and could move it at will, it could absolutely be used as a nuclear threat to ward off the enemy countries from declaring a full-scale war on Ravka, which they were planning to do and basically already doing with creeping occupation and clashes at the borders. The Fold was the least of Ravka's problems. Outdated absolute monarchy, serfdom, collapsing economy and the divide between Grisha and otkazatsya were more pressing issues. The Fold could act as Ravka's shield in the meantime. Then they could research merzost and the heart of Sankt Feliks, maybe properly train Alina first...But no, no training, straight up triple amplifier! Initiate the civil war nobody asked for, we need to get a bastard prince and then his girlfriend on the throne, who needs democracy even though realistically this is the time period for it! Let's destroy the Second army!
Funny how LB started claiming in recent years that Darklina was abusive (I mean it was toxic, but not for the reasons she says) and that she'd never write an abusive relationship (she has made Malina endgame), but then goes and makes her every other relationship outside of Grishaverse a Darklina ripoff. In Ninth House - Darlington and Alex Stern: A dignified intimidating gentleman and a scrappy scrawny young woman who feels like she doesn't belong in an elite establishment. Gee, I wonder if those names remind me of anyone, hmm. And apparently, in her newest book the Familiar, she attempted a Darklina copy again. She fanned Darklina flames when S&B trilogy had just come out and was very ecstatic about Darklina. Then around the time when "Shadow Daddy" trope and "YA FMC was manipulated" shtick started gaining popularity, Darklina became a staple for abusive relationships. Correct me if I'm getting the timeline wrong, but either way it's like she didn't dig further to analyze her own writing and simply decided to drop it before she got labeled to be "promoting problematic relationships" in her books. But she sure milked it and continues to milk Darklina, its vibes and reminiscence for all its worth. She wrote it and can do whatever she wants with it, but doing the same thing in not two, but three different book series set in three different universes is just peak lazy writing. "Darklina was horrible and shouldn't even be considered a relationship" - not even the author herself can come up with an idea how write a better relationship and keeps doing the same one over and over. Can't wait until I see a Kanej ripoff too...Oh wait, that was Zoyalai.
That woman really fell prey to her purist fans. So she had to change her tune about how Darkling was totally, inclusively abusive and no fun at all.
(like girl?? I can think of another ship you have created that oozes with toxicity and most importantly gets on our nerves)
And she clearly profits from Darklina and its dynamic for money (and therefore copies it in her every book). It's a popular trope so why not? Who has the time to spend it on writing about something different? Easy cash.
Look let's face it. That woman is a hypocrite and has the spine of a gingerbread man. So it's no wonder that most of her characters are like that as well. I would highly respect an author who sticks with his/her opinions and writing choices than someone who wavers every now and then because she's afraid of her own fanbase.
#I'm sorry but she's not even in the top 100 best YA authors for me #she couldn't even change the names Darlington (Darkling) and Alex Stern (Alina Starkov) properly #she basically recycles the Grishaverse
Well... that ~is~ pathetic...
Life goals: Write books purists disagree with....
Can we all finally agree that this woman was never the ya prophet so many people made her out to be? Bitch couldn't write two coherent sentences next to eachother, not to mention an entire book.
Which is so bizarre because there are moments when she delivers quite well in her books, only to turn around five minutes later, spin the narrative another way and write a shit ending. I think she has trouble with writing books that long and gets lost along the way. I'm trying to find other ways to explain it but how? I mean The Language of Thorns and the Demon in the Woods are great, so maybe she should've stuck with writing shorter stories?
Leigh Bardugo should become universally criticized just for the fact that she presented a victim of persecution and his actions as worse and more important to deal with than the genocide that takes place in that world.
She really said: "It's not the genocide we should worry about. It's that man and his efforts to stop it".
And people applaud her for it instead. Wow. You're all seriously fucked up.
#this book series is so unbelievably problematic #“the Darkling could have found another way!!” #WHICH way??? I would really like to know #and instead praise Nikolai who did nothing to stop anything and the Darkling did all the things for him #“Nikolai saved his country!” #literally where????? #passages please??? #that author speaks from a privileged place and it shows #the Darkling was just a product of all this but the genocide and persecution were the true diseases
Violence isn't THE way! Discussion, tolerance and understanding is!
And if they're not willing to offer it to you, just roll over and keep talking! It SO works! Especially when they're stronger and/or armed!
I would know, I grew up in once-Jewish ghetto with nice crematorium right behind the town walls...
I’ve seen some readers/viewers point out that he had: “hundreds of years to make things better” to make a point about his failure as a protector of Grisha and find a shred of evidence to prove that his motives were evil all along. But in all cases (and in the narrative itself) the fact that Aleksander wasn’t the sovereign is conveniently ignored in favour of a newly revised narrative that argues that the King was somehow his puppet and that he was an all-powerful mastermind.
All of it is to distract you from the fact that Bardugo wove oppression and persecution into the Darkling and then tried to clumsily walk it back to strengthen her shoddy “power corrupts” and “pretty privileged man bad” message.
It's also worth noting that LBD wanted a hundreds of years old sorcerer and didn't consider that setting him up as a charismatic manipulator (through telling not showing tbh) who's been subtly pulling the strings to put himself in power for centuries would necessarily beg the question... how did he not manage to get to that power in several hundred years??? like she's not that great of a writer and aleksander's character suffers for it
He’s borderline omniscient when it comes to emphasizing his evil deeds, but is also kind of incompetent when the narrative needs him to be. If he was as ruthless and evil as Bardugo claimed, why would it take him THIS long to seize power? We’re told that’s what he really wants, but we’re shown something way different. We’re shown evidence that he genuinely cares about the well-being of Grisha and that he takes measures to keep them as safe as his abilities allow, but we’re clumsily told that he desires power above all else.
She can’t stop whacking him with the idiot stick, he’s laying on the ground with severe brain trauma as we speak.
LB turns him into an irredeemable evil character when she wants her favourite characters to play the roles of teenage saviours or hapless victims of his manipulation. But then bait and switch and close all her books with a hopeful note. Tell stuff like the Darkling only wanted to be loved, time corrupted him etc etc.
Initially, I used to think she was simply writing a morally grey character in poor form. But after 'Demon in the woods', I'm convinced that she is doing it to keep the darklina stans remain in the fandom. Like it or not we kind of make a large percentage of the fandom. So she is cleverly playing both teams. Write outrageous stuff to entice the Righteous Gang crowd while throwing stuff here and there to keep the darklina stans hooked.
This! In KoS duology as well, the narrative spoon-feeds the readers how awful the Darkling was and rewrites facts to add to his list of crimes but at the same time, she doesn't make him do actual villain things and even makes him help Zoya and Nikolai and save everyone in the end. She keeps playing both sides but she still gets praised. And she switched up her tune when "the first love interest turning out to be manipulator" became trendy. Practically egging the fans on each other, very classy behavior.
Not to mention she keeps echoing darklina in her books outside of Grishaverse. At this point, I don't even want to see it, she can't even write something new. Tasteless behavior.
On "soft" heroines
Very often, when I read the posts from people defending the "Ruin and Rissing" atrocious ending, I see the same argument (or rather an accusation): people allegedly don't appreciate soft heroines, they don't think that raising orphans is important and they want every female protagonist to be a girlboss.
There are a few problems with that argument. There is indeed nothing wrong with being soft. Nothing wrong with not wanting to rule the country or not being a fighter. Nothing wrong with wanting to raise children. However, being soft doesn't mean being blind to other people's suffering. If you build the world full of pain, death, wars, and oppression, have the protagonist be the one who is able to stop that, there should be the point where they realize that there are things bigger and infinitely more important than their personal wants and needs. Every soldier dying on the battlefield, every person brutally killed for their "crime" of being different probably would rather be anywhere else doing anything more pleasant, but alas. However soft one might be, they still might decide to help, even if not by fulfilling military or governmental functions. And if your protagonist just washes their hands of any responsibility just because they "never asked for this," they are not going to come across as soft and deeply sensitive; they are going to look selfish and cowardly.
Anyhow, there is an even more important thing: you can't just randomly decide that your heroine is soft and her biggest dream has always been raising orphans by the end of the series when there was nothing leading up to that conclusion for three books straight. A soft protagonist is someone deeply sensitive, kind, empathetic, caring for those less fortunate, someone who abhors violence and cruelty and naturally gravitates to the roles that don't require being ruthless or violent. And Alina just...doesn't possess those qualities. From page one, she seems bitter, grouchy, and unfriendly. She's outright hostile to any girl who looks at her precious Mal and immediately passes judgment on everyone. Every Grisha girl is fake and shallow, the Darkling is a heartless monster who doesn't feel anything, heartrenders are killing machines, and so on. She gets attacked by Fjerdans, learns that it's pretty much a normal occurrence for Grisha, and never thinks about it anymore. She learns that girls mock Genya for being abused by the King and just...doesn't care? Neither does she see any problem with the same king harassing other maids. She destroys a skiff, effectively killing a few dozen people, and doesn't think much about it, nor does she seem terribly upset with Grisha on the opposing side being killed. She comes across as narrow-minded, self-absorbed and extremely self-righteous, which looks especially grating considering her total ignorance about everything.
When she remembers her orphanage, it's always about her own experience; she doesn't express any concern for the other kids there or any interest in helping orphaned children in the future. She clearly doesn't want to have any responsibility, so being responsible for raising a bunch of traumatized children really seems like a terrible idea not boding well for herself or those poor children. What can she even offer them? She's not wise and knowledgeable, not caring and compassionate; she can't put herself into another person's shoes and doesn't want to even attempt to understand where they are coming from. She's petulant and immature; she is only going to mess those children up even worse, and using them as window dressing to showcase how noble and kind-hearted she allegedly is seems really hypocritical and dishonest. No, I don't care she "heals a little," or so she says, how are the kids feeling? The orphanage is supposed to be about them and their well-being, not her, no?
Finally, Alina's never shown being genuinely content with her "simple" life with no responsibilities as a saint or queen. In the beginning, she's weak and miserable because of her wasting sickness, she doesn't like her job, can't connect with other people, and pines after a guy who is much more popular than her and doesn't really care about her. In the end, she mourns her lost powers; she can't connect with other people; we don't see her being appreciated, respected, or loved by anyone, even the kids, all while her boyfriend is still way more popular and likable than her, and she's considered a lunatic. Doesn't sound very idyllic to me, more like a domestic thriller where nobody would believe the wife if she ever thought to complain, because her husband is "such a nice guy" and she's "a paranoid nutjob who forgot to take her pills again".
So, in conclusion, Alina is a terrible representation of a soft heroine who strives for an ordinary life and wants(or is able) to raise children, and such an ending suits her like a pair of ill-fitting shoes.
And her choosing to settle down with her childhood friend would be fine, if he had shown any indication before that he would like to run an orphanage instead of fighting people, drinking and gambling. But I guess after having slept with half an army, he was ready to finally settle with her. Ew.
But even if we ignore all that, her settling with her childhood friend would be fine, if he had shown any indication before that he legitimately cared about her well-being, instead of simply wanting all of her attention back on him. And for her to be sickly, frail, made fun of and friendless again. Which he explicitly stated he wanted and pretty much achieved in the end.
And some people compare their story to Katniss and Peeta when barely recovered from being highjacked, halfway delirious Peeta showed more concern for Katniss than Mal ever did for Alina. And Katniss always protected and expressed compassion for others even if it risked her being killed while Alina just wanted to commit suicide after Mal was continuously a jerk for her and ignored her pleas.
Six of Crows- Chapter 21 (Leigh Bardugo)
Busy life, isn't it?
If Kaz is seventeen, and joined the Dregs in twelve,
he'd have five years to PLAN and achieve all that. Except he wasn't arrested since fourteen,
so unless he fucked up big after one of his big targets already done, we have three years only. All while gaining trust of his boss and co-workers, making a name for himself, recruiting useful people he needs to get to know first and organizing such endeavours as rebuilding a whole fucking harbour, when already owning at least a part of the Crow Club?
This is a world of liars, merchants and cheats. It should take some time before he establishes himself enough for others to be willing to deal with him in a way ALL the risk won't be on his side.
Kaz alegedly managed way too much in a way too short time.
He either should've been written as older, a child from already established family or have an admitted supernatural time-managing skill alongside his superbrain and miraculous amount of luck. Not even being a prodigy guarantees success. Just look at the amount of failed "gifted" children on this hellsite.
He's so "lucky" he's hard to take seriously as an underdog he's presented as. If he can do so much with so little in such a short time without memorable setbacks, he "doesn't have it so bad".
The Crows should've had more age diversity,IMO. Nina,Matthias,and Wylan can keep their canon ages(inexperience and immaturity are important part of their characters - even if in different ways),but Inej,Jesper, and Kaz have to be aged up. Jesper is going to be in his early 20's,in order to make his "sharpshooter/college dropout lost in life" shtick more believable and/or having lasted longer. As for Kaz and Inej,they're going to be anywhere between 25 and 30. The reason for said new ages are their power levels and reputations - the most feared assassin in town and an infamous crime lord,respectively(not to mention how generally mature and level-headed Inej is - and not "mature for her age",either). That age range is the sweet spot between them having enough time to establish reputations like those and being "fresh youngsters"(just make most of the big shots in Ketterdam much older).
Not only that,but then we'd get "25+ yo virgin(I don't know whether or not Inej would still be considered a virgin,since she was repeatedly raped. It's kind of a complicated issue)and/or romantically inexperienced" rep as a nice bonus. Kaz would still have his touch aversion(and massive trust issues as someone who's definitely familiar with honey traps),while Inej might find a chaste lifestyle appealing, especially after being a sex slave for two years. Them joining forces happen mostly like it did in canon - 14(?) approaches a promising criminal Kaz, and he helps her escape the Menagerie instead of having her bought. Them,a partnership ensues,as Inej helps Kaz rise through the ranks,and they form a strong friendship. Then,the romantic tension in canon would've been so much better with them as adults,IMO.
To top it all,age gaps give more varied relationships. A 16-year-old Nina still gets along marvelously well with a 26-year-old Inej. Kaz would have a much starker mentor/student situation with Wylan. Honestly,having them all be teens is a waste.
darkestelemental616:
At least with similar characters like Locke Lamora, they had the decency to have started even younger and been full-ass adults by the time the story actually begins...
acryliccaffeine:
I just fully ignored that they’re teenagers in the book series and read them closer to the actors’ ages from the show, since I read them after. It changes so little to have them all be like early 20s, their childhoods/teen years having been horrific does the same narrative work of them still being teens, and I feel like actually does more to show how “growing up fast” is actually incredibly developmentally inhibiting and keeps you emotionally immature. A group of teen criminals/murderers is exciting (as a teen reader) and group of adults who were teen murders and are coping /badly/ hits so much harder (as an adult reader)
as a Kazakh person, reading the Grishaverse became a drinking game of taking a shot every single time you could sense the author never even studied Russian language. Of course, the game got abandoned quickly after the first few pages because dying due to this book series isn’t really something I want to be known for.
These names would be less cringey if it was set in, I don’t know, Western Europe because it’s already westernized enough. The way psuedo Russian quips are thrown in - very painful to read. Aleksander Morozov should be his name, not Morozova.
Hi, anon!
Yeah, such a game certainly would be dangerous. Unless you use kvas instead of real alcohol.
What baffles me the most is not even mistakes themselves, but this lazy, apathetic attitude. Why base your book on a foreign culture if you clearly have no interest in doing even minimal research?
Bardugo's latest book, the Familiar, is set in Spain, and from what I see in reviews, spanish readers aren't impressed.
So I guess it is a persistent problem.
Thanks for the ask!
It's orientalism, but more pallatable to americans/western europeans because it doesn't even have to involve non-white people. The same shit has been happening to "exotic" cultures (arabs, native americans, china, india etc. etc.) forever, LB just does it in the 21st century instead of the 1800s where it belongs.
And fans act like no one should say a word against it just because she has Spanish ancestry on one side and Slavic on the other. Great, she doesn't care about it beyond making money and is disrespecting her own cultures too. What other conclusion is to draw from here. She was born in Israel and raised in US. From what we see from her works, she is not keen on doing basic research at all. And it's not just little things like grammar and language, she's butchering everything, including heavy themes.
my top 10 ouat quotes #3. Jefferson, 1x17 "Hat Trick"
So because Alina invited Mal to the Little Palace she just thinks he can come. I don’t think that’s how it works. Did she get permission to have Mal come? Did she ask Aleksander if it was possible?
As far as I know , no she didn’t. Does she not know how things work?
@kestrafagnor @billyblackbirdrusso For all that a lot of non-Americans bash Alina for sounding like an American teenager (rightfully, I might add), they seem to think that it’s okay for American soldiers to act like/talk to superior officers like entitled children… when this is far from the case. There is a Marine currently facing a court martial for criticizing military brass on social media for the flustercluck that was the American withdrawal from Afghanistan (he spent time in the brig, even). And this is not a newbie, but a decorated officer with 17 years of service under his belt! If the Mal of the show were a real life soldier, he would be immediately escorted to the nearest holding cell for questioning an officer about a general’s location.
Filed under the column of things the writer wrote without proper research: military order.
Sasha told her Little Palace is the most secure place in Ravka.
So she invites her otkazat’sya Grisha-phobic bestie.
also, (in the show) Mal blackmailing the general had me rolling. Mal, a lowly soldier, a newbie, blackmailing a GENERAL of the ARMY.
“I won’t tell you the information that was my job to obtain and give to you unless you bring the literal Saint who was nearly assassinated for existing, to me, Grisha-hating nobody”
I might be dumb, but im not that dumb to not understand Mal would be thrown out faster than he could say “irises” as soon as he refused to give the location of the Stag.
Well, we have his dramatic performance in second ep:
Mal: We need to go after her.
Lieutenant Bohdan: Excuse me, soldier?
WTF is this halfwit doing here? Do they not teach them ranks these days?
Malyen: Alina Starkov. The Sun Summoner. The whole company should be with her as escorts. Everyone in the world will want her dead or in their custody.
Oh, wow! A tracker and a STRATEGIST!
Lieutenant Bohdan: Not our problem, son.
Malaria: Not our… What does that mean?
Lieutenant Bohdan: The Sun Summoner is Grisha. Second Army. Let those fancy folk handle her. Until they decide she’s a fraud and put her head on a spike, I’m not wasting time or men on it.
Let’s spell it out for him.
Malware: Until a few hours ago, she was one of your own. And you would turn your back on her so quickly? And they won’t kill her. She’s real. I saw it.
How dare you not care for EVERY SINGLE ONE of your subordinates PERSONALLY?!
Lieutenant Bohdan: All I know is she’s not worth the risk until the King tells me so.
Saints! Who do they recruit these days?!
Malfunction: She’s worth it, sir.
Just take my word for it. That’s how army works. Didn’t they tell you I’m the protagonist’s love interest?
He should’ve been whipped for insubordination at least.
A scene before that:
Mal: Why are you back?
oprichnik Semyov: We were ambushed. Fjerdans. They must’ve been close enough to the Fold to have seen the explosion. They were after her.
Why do you even talk to possible enemy spy or whatever? He’s not even part of the same section of army! You don’t even know him personally!
Malyen: But where are the others?
oprichnik Semyov: Dead. Wounded. Waiting on fresh horses.
Oh, you have head injury. That explains a lot. You should find a healer first.
Maladjusted: Alina? Is she all right?
oprichnik Semyov: She is with General Kirigan.
Well, that information cannot hurt anyone…
Malaise: You left her alone with one man?
HoW dArE YoU fOLLoW yOUr OrDERs?! That’s not how it works here!
What did the writers smoke, and on what kind of shit was whoever approved of those scripts?!
The old gargoyle and the missing opportunities
Baghra's "reveal" of Aleksander as a "villain" doesn't make any sense and ctually makes the plot worse. I suppose the intention was: a young protagonist is charmed by an attractive and powerful man, believes that he is a brave revolutionary and a justice fighter with noble goals, and gets entangled in a relationship with him only to find out that his motives are much more sinister and he actually uses her as a pawn, tricking her with talks about "greater good". She feels betrayed, devastated, heartbroken, and disillusioned with the man she thought she knew and runs away to take revenge on him and ultimately stop him. Except it falls apart right from the start. The narrative tries to retroactively gaslight you by including Alina's lamenting about "how long she lived with his lies", but, considering that we still remember what actually happened, it makes her sound delusional or outright dishonest.
The Darkling is not charming. He's not that typical abuser who plays the role of a sociable, likeable, caring, and upstanding guy who secretly beats up unsuspecting women in his dungeon. He has a dark reputation, a dark image, and a whole swarm of semi-mythical gossip surrounding him. And he doesn't seem to mind. That's not how a charming manipulator acts - he doesn't cultivate a socially popular image. Nobody is charmed. Alina isn't charmed either: she initially recoils from his powers and believes he is going to torture her when he simply asks how her day was.
They actually barely interact. They have 5-6 brief conversations, mostly about her powers and amplifiers. Alina herself mentions he's barely present in the palace, and even when he is, he's not in a hurry to meet her. That's not enough to manipulate someone. It's not enough to build trust. It's not even enough to say that you know something about each other.
He interacts with her for political purposes. He doesn't manipulate her to enjoy the power he has over her and her feelings, like an abuser and manipulator does. He doesn't love-bomb Alina or try to convince her that he picked her for her delightful personality. He needs her power; that much is absolutely clear from the start. He doesn't try to humanize himself to her or get her to feel sorry for him; there is no moment of shared vulnerability between them. When they kiss, he seems almost annoyed with the fact he couldn't separate his business from unnecessary feelings. Playing on Alina's insecurities? No, he only encourages her and even defends her against Baghra's attack. Isolation? Also no, she has a full palace of Grisha and non-Grisha to talk to.
Moreover, Alina doesn't act like a victim of manipulation either. The danger of a skillful manipulation is that it's notoriously difficult to get through to the victim, even for their closest friends. The manipulated person is inclined to dismiss any warnings, get defensive, believe that it's just a misunderstanding, find excuses for their manipulator, and get angry at the person who tries to warn them for meddling with their relationship. Alina does none of that. She immediately believes the old abusive hag with no evidence and runs away.
If Aleksander is manipulative, why not continue manipulating her when he captures her after her escape? Baghra didn't provide any evidence; it would be easy to say she is just a demented old liar whose brain was damaged by the wasting sickness. He could also tell her that Baghra abused him as a child to make Alina feel guilty for trusting her over him. All the opportunities were there.
So Baghra's reveal works to the detriment of the plot because:
Alina is basically told that a guy she and everyone else assumed was evil is actually evil. There is no reason to gasp or feel betrayed; the act of a wronged wife who found out her husband is a serial cheater after 20 years of marriage is completely out of place.
The fact that Baghra delivers all the gossip in one go makes Alina's outrage against the Darkling's methods forced and performative. A day ago, Alina was happily swanning around the palace, not questioning Aleksander's goals and strategy once, not even asking questions about him, and as soon as Bahra told her, she suddenly became a staunch opponent of his "tyranny"? Sounds fake. If her discomfort with his actions was a result of her own moral reflection, that would be at least more honest and gave her a more believable conflict.
It robs Alina of any agency, as she doesn't discover information about the Darkling herself, doesn't start noticing disturbing signs and discrepancies in his behavior, and is getting infodumped by a Baghra-shaped deus ex machina instead. Once again, the conflict would be much more meaningful and impactful if Alina actually put some effort into discovering the Darkling's "true nature".
If Baghra truly believed Aleksander was going to manipulate Alina, why wait for months to warn her? It makes more sense to do it straight away, before the alleged manipulative tactics take effect.
Baghra shouldn't have even been there. If Aleksander was truly such a brilliant strategist and manipulator, he should have known that his mother, the only person knowing his Black heretic identity, could betray him. It's not like she ever made it a secret she didn't support him. So he should have made sure his mother didn't meet the Sun Summoner. Instead, he sends Alina to Baghra for training himself. Not very mastermindful of him.
If you think about it, Baghra works as a big bad manipulator much better. She has a more suitable role—that of a wise, grumpy, but well-meaning senior mentor. Who's going to suspect an old lady of plotting devious plans? Besides, Alina has already been brainwashed by a similar old abusive hag - Ana Kuya—so for her, Baghra's attitude seems familiar. Baghra does play on Alina's insecurities: rubbing in her face her humble orphanage upbringing, shaming her for her attraction to the Darkling (the idea that it's unbecoming for a young virtuous lady to lust over a man is probably already hammered into her by Ana Kuya), belittling her for her poor command over her power, and instilling the belief that Alina is stupid, foolish, naive, and can't make any decisions for herself. She also redirects any possible accusations of manipulation onto Aleksander: he is a centuries-old manipulator who knows how to fool naive young girls, apparently, not her. And if shifting the suspicion onto the person you try to discredit is not the most popular manipulative technique, I don't know what is.
The entire reveal was stupid. Aleksander was never shown as a charismatic person from the beginning. He was dressed all in black, he was called 'the Darkling', he was summoning shadows and to top it all off, he was despised by everyone except for his people. In fact, as we read we were waiting for him to turn out to be the good guy(which was true anyway)
And Alina's opinion rarely changed about him as well. She called him a souless demon, thought he was not capable of feeling hurt and she even imagined the small interaction as something nefarious.
The only thing that started to change was her growing power which Aleksander strongly encouraged her to do and her growing attraction to him followed by the guilt of having such 'impure' thoughts.
When Baghra did this unveiling all Alina did was pin her guilt on him. She was already insecure and unsure about the whole thing, so Baghra's reveal made her gaslit herself and pin every stupid thing on him. It was like she could prove her virtue only by hating him.
And then the entire story went downhill from that point. The whole plot of genocide was lost in Alina trying to prove her worth and virtue to Mal.
#everytime Alina admired his hair or eyes she believed it was somehow the Darkling's trick
Please tell me I'm not the only one who pictured the Fjerdans as vikings during my first read-through of the Grisha Triology 😅
A conversation with another reader made me realize that the only aspect of the Darkling that seems to stick in Alina's mind is the desire not to be alone. That she only allowed herself to see in him what was a reflection of her own feelings.
She never had to experience anti-Grisha persecution, so she doesn't see him as a survivor of countless horrors.
She doesn't care about others, so she's constantly overlooking his drive to protect others.
She's refusing to think about her future of an immortal, so when she's confronted with that side of him, she only focuses on what's she already closely familiar with. The loneliness.
Even when searching for sources on Morozova, she quickly decides he was lonely. It's what Alina understands, it's what she can easily identify with, it's the one trait she never denies the Darkling.
She might offer sympathy, but seems to be incapable of empathy. It's as if her brain could relate, but not extrapolate.
(x)
idc all modern darklina aus should end with aleksander committing domestic terrorism and overthrowing the government thats just realistic
i was thinking abt this again, why are modern aus all businessman aleksander stuff?? like that makes sense as a front but no way he doesnt also mailbomb politicians. include this or its ooc
stheresya:
#yeah. #sasha plans on killing head-of-states in every universe
ragingstillness:
just regardless of whatever profession he has. Doctor AU? still overthrows the government. High School Student AU? still overthrows the government. Barista AU? still overthrows the government.
theweeklydiscourse:
#Darklina but make it follow the plot Dostoevsky’s *The Posessed* where he commits a political murder or something #anarchist Aleksander
siriuslyobsessedwithfiction
Mar 27, 2024
Also in every fic where Sasha is plotting and bending backwards and Ivan is also stressed but helps dutifully and when they accomplish something they’re happy and meanwhile Bagrha is like “Pshht, I could’ve done that in a week.” but refuses to help them. She’s just there to criticize.
In all of those situations, there should be a cut scene in Ketterdam where Kaz Brekker is laughing maniacally about how upset the merchant council is because government change means change of economics and Ravka will start paying off Kerch’s debts under Aleksander’s rule or guidance.
June 21, 2025
Lmaoo, I forgot I commented this. Yes, no matter what AU fic Aleksander is in, Ivan is there to be his right hand man and together they’re working on overthrowing the government. Doctor AU? Surgeon. High School Student AU? Jock. Barista AU? Aggressively uses caramel drizzle while glares at people who have unnecessarily complicated orders. Still overthrows the government.
How did the Darkling's coup fail? I feel like all we heard about it was from Alina saying his coup failed, and the Apparat had fled... what do you think went wrong?
By coup, I assume you mean the one that happened "off camera" in the novel Shadow and Bone?
What do I think went wrong:
(1) Why poison the king if he did not have control of Vasily? Or Tatiana? Although we later learn Genya's poison is slow acting, so I am not convinced it had anything to do with Aleksander's coup. He would not be able to be certain of the timing.
There are a lot of questions I cannot answer because I do not know what is the nature of Ravkan government. Do they have the Collegia? Ministries? The governing senate chaired by its Procutator?
I do not see the Apparat’s road to power. I would have expected Tatiana or Vasily to seize control of the monarchy as an “interim ruler”.
And if not then the Apparat needs to hold an actual position at court like a Chancellor or Chief Procurator so that he can take this position.
(2) He never went back to Os Alta. I actually have no idea why after he survives what happened in the Fold he does not immediately return to the capital. He goes missing for an undetermined amount of time and this is long enough for the Apparat to flee and I assume Vasily to regain power.
(3) Timing. Why launch this coup when he is hundred of miles away from Os Alta?
What I think he could have done better:
(1) Puppeted the throne through Tatiana as regent. Although Vasily and Nikolai are so old, he would probably have to go through them. Actually, given Nikolai’s reputation as a useless wastrel, I am surprised he did not approach Nikolai’s double.
(2) If he wanted to seize power for himself in his own name, make an alliance with the First Army for a military coup. I won’t claim this is straightforward because Ravka is using a regimental military system, and those are likely headed by members of the nobility, so why would they follow Aleksander rather than making a play for the crown themselves? But, I think the aristocracy could be overcome by promising decisive victory for Ravka. The Lantsovs have lost a lot of historic territory in both Fjerda and Shu Han (according to Ruin and Rising), so if he could prove that this territory could be reclaimed, either through manipulating the Fold, or the more reasonable unleashing of Fabrikator technology and sound military strategy, he could convince the Colonels to follow him.
The positive side of a regimental system is that each regiment is responsible for its own recruitment and financing, so you do not need to win over the entire army in one sweep.
Clearly his Grisha were not enough to hold the Capital. He needed a real army.
You are amazing. Thank you so much for the ideas on how it might have been done better. I was trying understand what exactly happened and how it failed but just came up bewildered.
tags of beauty by @stephanythedramaqueen:
#first thing that comes to mind on why the coup failed; the Darkling failed to either kill or capture Tatiana Vasily & Nikolai #Vasily being the heir apparent is the most important one to either hold or kill #and lbh to be the king you gotta kill the king. that shit is medieval. so he had to kill them #the fact that he only killed the king and didn’t aim for the remaining royal family is the dumbest plan I’ve ever read #second; historically you just need the right amount of power to hold the throne #THE most important part of the that power scale is military. he with the strongest army wins 🤷🏾♀️ #but since armies in feudal society relies— as OP said— on the nobility #the darkling just needed to have the richest or most powerful or most influential nobility on his side #not all nobility was needed but definitely the ones who matter #the fact that he was not IN Os Alta when he made his move is another dumbass move. he needed to be there with his army present! #literally EVERY coup in motherfucking HISTORY has done this. idk if LB just didn’t search this up or the Darkling was this stupid? #with the right nobility on his side and even more important with the right army he would have won the capital over #idk how an immortal man with 500+ years of political bureaucratic experience wouldn’t know of this? 😩 it makes zero fucking sense #let’s not even begin on the magical powers that could have aided him #it was dumb writing from the start. LB just didn’t want the Darkling to win bc someone who is calculated as aleksander is supposed to be #would have planned every stage every move and every fallout. it was nonsensical #mom come pick me up i hate it here
Real Villains of GV vs Antis - Part 1
1) Jarl Brum
