crumbs?

[eatyourcrumbs-old]

Moved from secondary @eatyoucrumbs-old to primary @eatyourcrumbs for easier interaction 🐀

[carefulzombie]

idiot4idiot pt4

(+bonus tardis. bc she fits the idiot mold plenty herself😌)

[eatyourcrumbs-old]

Checking how much of an unpopular opinion that is... 👀

I don't like the Forth Doctor. Actually I do actively dislike him and I'm struggling to finish his run (I'm at Leela in Victorian London now) 🙈

Everyone seems to love him and he's "the best Doctor" and they enjoy his weirdness and relationship with companions... But I find him scary, rude, unkind and dismissive, even towards his companions 🙈

I once had a dream about him, and he was standing right next to me, and I had to really look up to see his face and there he was, towering over me, smiling with too many teeth and huge eyes and damn, that was scary 🫥

I'm really looking forward to Five, but I don't want to skip Four and the struggle is real 😭

That's probably only me, but... Would appreciate your opinions, I'm open to you guys changing my mind about him, I do want to enjoy his run 😭

[circular-time]

Eek, that would be scary!

Everyone has different likes and dislikes, and a wise Doctor Who fan knows that every era and Doctor will hit the sweet spot for some fans, but not for others.

Teenaged GenX me would be feeling very vindicated by your post. 🤜🤛 (Except I don't think we'd invented fistbumps yet!)

Back in the day, Tom Baker was THE DOCTOR, somewhat like Tennant more recently. Whereas I liked Five, whom most people disliked as the new Doctor who Wasn't As Good As Tom. (That was rather the point: most Doctors on classic Who contrasted with the previous, so Five was fallible, prone to getting flustered, lacking the Fourth Doctor's aura of grandiositude. Five seemed much more human to me). I didn't really dislike the Fourth Doctor, but I began to since he was the touchstone for running down My Doctor.

I will say that this is a rough patch, and Talons of Weng-Chiang is just about the nadir, not only for the absolutely appalling racism, even if the side characters Jago & Litefoot add a whiff of fresh air to a ceaspool.

Leela, like Martha, deserved better. Like many under-served companions, she is so magnificent in the audios that it's hard for some of us to remember now that the Doctor dared to condescend to fucking Leela. Luckily, the next TV companion is smart enough to be the Doctor's equal in many ways, doesn't stabd for much nonsense from him and they great chemistry — both versions of her. (You can really tell when Tom gets a crush on his co-star.) Plus there's some Douglas Adams scripts.

I meant to answer briefly. Whoops.

Hopefully a Fourth Doctor fan will come along and answer. Because really, every Doctor has their strong points, and there's plenty of reasons Tom Baker was "THE" Doctor back in the day. The best way to enjoy them is to have someone who loves them explain what they love about them.!

[wordswithkittywitch]

Hello, I'm not the fourth Doctor fan they were hoping would answer.

I also didn't care for the fourth Doctor. I think he's actually my second-least-favourite Doctor in the whole run. Maybe part of that is how overhyped he is, maybe some of that was how mad I was about Pertwee getting replaced, but... I think most of it was that I just didn't enjoy most of his stories? Leela was alright as a character, there were a few decent plots thrown in around the ones that frankly made me cringe (looking at you, Talons of Weng Chiang) but... this is going to sound weird, when my favourite Doctors are usually pointed out as the "mean" ones, four didn't seem to really... care about anything that was happening that I found really abrasive. And it would have been alright for a few seasons, but they just kept dragging him on longer than served the plot.

You're absolutely right about him being creepy, though. Eldrich being with too many teeth and no facial feature that properly fits on the face.

[presidentdisastraofgallifrey]

I do like him but I’m not one to say you should like any given incarnation over the others

I will say though that four is much more fun once you get to Romana. They’re on more equal footing and have a good dynamic. Leela really did deserve so much better, and if you aren’t enjoying it you could easily skip ahead a season and be fine

[eatyourcrumbs-old]

Thank you all for your lovely answers!

That's a very valid point about the contrasting Doctors, I totally agree - I do find that I would enjoy Three's run way more if I didn't compare him to Two. It's difficult to see them on their own, when there's always someone to compare them to.

I was a little bit worried about not liking THE DOCTOR OF ALL THE DOCTORS, because just about everyone seems to love him, not only the fans that watched his run when it originally aired, but also those who watched later (like me), and I was like- Will I get angry comments if I say that I don't get the hype and I wouldn't want to stay in the same room as Tom Baker's Doctor? (But of course everyone is super kind 💕). He is an eldritch being from my nightmares, but it's not only about his looks, it's his manner and personality - I do love weird/crazy characters, but he just makes me very uncomfortable...

The way Leela is written (and the Doctor is acting towards her) makes me actually so frustrated and angry at times, so I'm glad that she got what she deserves in the audios. Seems that, just like you all said, I'm in a rough patch and it'll get better. Maybe all that I've heard about Four and especially him and Sarah Jane got my hopes way too high and now the fall feels all the more bigger for it.

I just have to hang on and hopefully I'll start enjoying watching DW again, cause it's been a source of frustration for me... It's already the third month I didn't feel like picking it up, but all the answers got me interested in it again! ☺️ Keeping my hopes a little bit higher (but not too much, just in case) for Romana, I might end up skipping some of Leela unless there's some must-see story.

[animate-mush]

The rest of Leela's run is as follows:

The Horror of Fang Rock: base under siege, fun if you like Lighthouses, Leela gets to wear a sweater and slap a screaming woman, the monster is Significant but not like. That significant.

The Invisible Enemy: introduces a VERY IMPORTANT NEW CHARACTER. Hospital drama. Kinda irritating baddies

Image of the Fendahl: did you like Quatermass and the Pit? Occultism. I think this episode is lousy but Leela has good moments

The Sun Makers: Robert Holmes story with an Evil Corporation. To my taste this is the top story of the season. The Blake's 7-est episode of Doctor Who (and not just because Vila is there)

Underworld: whole plot reference to Jason and the Argonauts. They ran out of effects budget halfway through. I want this one to be better than it is

The Invasion of Time: you...should probably watch this one for continuity. The first four episodes are High Political Drama on Gallifrey (no creepy clowns). The last two are just kinda silly.

With the caveat that everyone's tastes are different and YMMV.

[eatyourcrumbs-old]

Oh, that's actually marvelous, thank you! A perfect overview, really 💕 Now I'm ready to go back to DW 😌

[eatyourcrumbs-old]

Checking how much of an unpopular opinion that is... 👀

I don't like the Forth Doctor. Actually I do actively dislike him and I'm struggling to finish his run (I'm at Leela in Victorian London now) 🙈

Everyone seems to love him and he's "the best Doctor" and they enjoy his weirdness and relationship with companions... But I find him scary, rude, unkind and dismissive, even towards his companions 🙈

I once had a dream about him, and he was standing right next to me, and I had to really look up to see his face and there he was, towering over me, smiling with too many teeth and huge eyes and damn, that was scary 🫥

I'm really looking forward to Five, but I don't want to skip Four and the struggle is real 😭

That's probably only me, but... Would appreciate your opinions, I'm open to you guys changing my mind about him, I do want to enjoy his run 😭

[animate-mush]

I also strongly dislike the Fourth Doctor, for a lot if the reasons you mention. He is my second least favorite Doctor.

(I am sorry he haunts your dreams. I appreciate "the Face of Evil" for apparently being born of Chris Boucher asking the question: what's the scariest thing in the universe? Ah yes - Tom Baker's Teeth)

For me, he gets steadily better across his run. I do not like him against Sarah Jane at all (I don't like the Holmes-Hinchcliffe era in general, despite Robert Holmes being my favorite writer); he has many of the same issue when paired with Leela but she's enough of a delight to mitigate it somewhat; the companion that follows her is able to put him in his place somewhat and the dynamic becomes much more watchable; he has incredible chemistry with the next actress (they were married for a bit) and the aesthetic of the show becomes much more colorful, and his last season is one of my top 5 in the show.

I never recommend skipping but there is a lot of Tom Baker and if it's hateful to you that's no good either. If you want the Fifth Doctor era to be impactful I would say you need to at least watch from the beginning of his companions' arcs, so if you do skip ahead I wouldn't go any farther than the s18 episode "Full Circle."

Leela will take you to the end of s15. S16 is a full season story arc called "the Key to Time" which, despite my general dislike of the Fourth Doctor, is very good (particularly the first two stories). S17 I believe brings us into the JNT era (John Nathan-Turner) which is aesthetically very different - this is when we start getting the question marks on the costumes.

Everyone's tastes are different of course and reasonable minds can differ. But if your tastes align with mine as much as they seem to, it may be about to get much better.

Good luck, and I hope this helps

[eatyourcrumbs-old]

Thank you so much for your comment!

I'm glad to know that I'm not alone in my (unexpected) dislike.

The fact that there is so much of his run, and I didn't enjoy it so far, put me off DW for three months. But everyone keeps saying that it gets better with the next directors so there's hope for me. I don't want to skip too much - I do watch a lot of things I don't particularly enjoy just for science (the science being "I want to know" and "I want to be able to judge it on my own") so I'm kind of used to it, but it just got so tiresome and frustrating...

But all the comments gave me back some of my previous hype and even if Tom Baker just won't click for me, maybe Romana will get me back into the show 🤞

[eatyourcrumbs-old]

Checking how much of an unpopular opinion that is... 👀

I don't like the Forth Doctor. Actually I do actively dislike him and I'm struggling to finish his run (I'm at Leela in Victorian London now) 🙈

Everyone seems to love him and he's "the best Doctor" and they enjoy his weirdness and relationship with companions... But I find him scary, rude, unkind and dismissive, even towards his companions 🙈

I once had a dream about him, and he was standing right next to me, and I had to really look up to see his face and there he was, towering over me, smiling with too many teeth and huge eyes and damn, that was scary 🫥

I'm really looking forward to Five, but I don't want to skip Four and the struggle is real 😭

That's probably only me, but... Would appreciate your opinions, I'm open to you guys changing my mind about him, I do want to enjoy his run 😭

[circular-time]

Eek, that would be scary!

Everyone has different likes and dislikes, and a wise Doctor Who fan knows that every era and Doctor will hit the sweet spot for some fans, but not for others.

Teenaged GenX me would be feeling very vindicated by your post. 🤜🤛 (Except I don't think we'd invented fistbumps yet!)

Back in the day, Tom Baker was THE DOCTOR, somewhat like Tennant more recently. Whereas I liked Five, whom most people disliked as the new Doctor who Wasn't As Good As Tom. (That was rather the point: most Doctors on classic Who contrasted with the previous, so Five was fallible, prone to getting flustered, lacking the Fourth Doctor's aura of grandiositude. Five seemed much more human to me). I didn't really dislike the Fourth Doctor, but I began to since he was the touchstone for running down My Doctor.

I will say that this is a rough patch, and Talons of Weng-Chiang is just about the nadir, not only for the absolutely appalling racism, even if the side characters Jago & Litefoot add a whiff of fresh air to a ceaspool.

Leela, like Martha, deserved better. Like many under-served companions, she is so magnificent in the audios that it's hard for some of us to remember now that the Doctor dared to condescend to fucking Leela. Luckily, the next TV companion is smart enough to be the Doctor's equal in many ways, doesn't stabd for much nonsense from him and they great chemistry — both versions of her. (You can really tell when Tom gets a crush on his co-star.) Plus there's some Douglas Adams scripts.

I meant to answer briefly. Whoops.

Hopefully a Fourth Doctor fan will come along and answer. Because really, every Doctor has their strong points, and there's plenty of reasons Tom Baker was "THE" Doctor back in the day. The best way to enjoy them is to have someone who loves them explain what they love about them.!

[wordswithkittywitch]

Hello, I'm not the fourth Doctor fan they were hoping would answer.

I also didn't care for the fourth Doctor. I think he's actually my second-least-favourite Doctor in the whole run. Maybe part of that is how overhyped he is, maybe some of that was how mad I was about Pertwee getting replaced, but... I think most of it was that I just didn't enjoy most of his stories? Leela was alright as a character, there were a few decent plots thrown in around the ones that frankly made me cringe (looking at you, Talons of Weng Chiang) but... this is going to sound weird, when my favourite Doctors are usually pointed out as the "mean" ones, four didn't seem to really... care about anything that was happening that I found really abrasive. And it would have been alright for a few seasons, but they just kept dragging him on longer than served the plot.

You're absolutely right about him being creepy, though. Eldrich being with too many teeth and no facial feature that properly fits on the face.

[presidentdisastraofgallifrey]

I do like him but I’m not one to say you should like any given incarnation over the others

I will say though that four is much more fun once you get to Romana. They’re on more equal footing and have a good dynamic. Leela really did deserve so much better, and if you aren’t enjoying it you could easily skip ahead a season and be fine

[eatyourcrumbs-old]

Thank you all for your lovely answers!

That's a very valid point about the contrasting Doctors, I totally agree - I do find that I would enjoy Three's run way more if I didn't compare him to Two. It's difficult to see them on their own, when there's always someone to compare them to.

I was a little bit worried about not liking THE DOCTOR OF ALL THE DOCTORS, because just about everyone seems to love him, not only the fans that watched his run when it originally aired, but also those who watched later (like me), and I was like- Will I get angry comments if I say that I don't get the hype and I wouldn't want to stay in the same room as Tom Baker's Doctor? (But of course everyone is super kind 💕). He is an eldritch being from my nightmares, but it's not only about his looks, it's his manner and personality - I do love weird/crazy characters, but he just makes me very uncomfortable...

The way Leela is written (and the Doctor is acting towards her) makes me actually so frustrated and angry at times, so I'm glad that she got what she deserves in the audios. Seems that, just like you all said, I'm in a rough patch and it'll get better. Maybe all that I've heard about Four and especially him and Sarah Jane got my hopes way too high and now the fall feels all the more bigger for it.

I just have to hang on and hopefully I'll start enjoying watching DW again, cause it's been a source of frustration for me... It's already the third month I didn't feel like picking it up, but all the answers got me interested in it again! ☺️ Keeping my hopes a little bit higher (but not too much, just in case) for Romana, I might end up skipping some of Leela unless there's some must-see story.

[eatyourcrumbs-old]

Checking how much of an unpopular opinion that is... 👀

I don't like the Forth Doctor. Actually I do actively dislike him and I'm struggling to finish his run (I'm at Leela in Victorian London now) 🙈

Everyone seems to love him and he's "the best Doctor" and they enjoy his weirdness and relationship with companions... But I find him scary, rude, unkind and dismissive, even towards his companions 🙈

I once had a dream about him, and he was standing right next to me, and I had to really look up to see his face and there he was, towering over me, smiling with too many teeth and huge eyes and damn, that was scary 🫥

I'm really looking forward to Five, but I don't want to skip Four and the struggle is real 😭

That's probably only me, but... Would appreciate your opinions, I'm open to you guys changing my mind about him, I do want to enjoy his run 😭

[eatyourcrumbs-old]

Okay, alright, I've listened to the Short Trips: Deleted Scenes audio and ooof, my lovely people, great recommendation, right into feels, just what I needed!

At first I was simply like "perfect, silent cinema, lost films, Georges Melies, more of that please!" (I'm an old cinema nerd) and then it hit. Hard. Will it sound wrong if I say, mmm yes hit me harder? Sorry, it just came out, haha.

If only I could write fics... 🥹

[eatyourcrumbs-old]

Hello kind people of Classic Who, would anyone be nice enough to spare me a moment and point me to the best EU books and audios featuring Two and Jamie? 🥹