Debunking: Captured Derek
This is another debunking post about one of the things I regularly see used as an argument that Stiles is a bad person or that he doesn’t care about Derek.
Argument: Stiles knew Derek had Scott’s phone and maliciously didn’t say anything because he didn’t want to rescue Derek
People claim this because of the conversation between Peter and Stiles on the lacrosse field right after Lydia was attacked. Peter asked Stiles where Derek was. He said Stiles was lying when Stiles said he didn’t know how to find Derek. After being called out on it, Stiles then explained one way they could try finding Derek.
Because Stiles and Scott had had a conversation earlier that day about how Scott wanted to look for Derek, people believe that Stiles was deliberately withholding information and leaving Derek at the mercy of the hunters. Stiles also asked if Scott could just let Derek die for Stiles’ sake, which is used as a confirmation of Stiles’ intentions by some.
Counter 1: The last thing Derek did was try to murder Jackson as far as Stiles knew
In the earlier conversation Stiles outright stated that Derek had been planning to kill Jackson and then tried to kill Scott when he interrupted it. Scott said Derek wasn’t planning to kill anyone, but he gave no justification for that belief at all. Literally none. Derek saving Scott from the hunters could take care of Derek’s true intentions towards Scott, but there’s nothing to explain why he wasn’t planning on killing Jackson. Stiles was probably still under the assumption that Derek was dangerous and willing to kill innocents.
At that point in time, Derek was a danger to Scott, to Stiles, and to everyone else as far as Stiles was aware, so it made no sense to try to find him or risk anything for him. It’s reasonable and not really malicious even if Stiles fully believed Derek was alive at the time. He had no way of knowing the hunters would torture Derek either, as he had little experience with their methods at that point in time.
Counter 2: Stiles thought Derek was dead
Stiles Thought Derek Was Dead, Scott Never Gave Any Proof
Stiles stated in the previous conversation that he thought Derek was dead anyway. Derek was directly in the line of fire last time Scott saw him. Scott, again, claimed that Derek had to be alive but gave no proof or logic to support the claim.
His only argument was that the hunters wouldn’t kill Derek because they needed him to get to Peter. However, with what Stiles and Scott knew about hunters, there was no reason to believe they would think keeping Derek alive was a priority. I have to look into this more because I can’t remember if the Argents ever even said anything about using Derek to get to Peter. Scott may have just assumed that.
In any case, Stiles was never effectively convinced that Derek was alive after stating he thought Derek was likely dead.
Stiles Accepts Death Readily
Stiles has a habit of believing people are dead at the slightest provocation. He never plays the optimist when it comes to things like that. He believed Derek was dead without question outside the school, he believed Derek was dead after the fall in 3A without question even without a body, he believed Erica was dead as soon as they knew there was a dead female body, etc.
He showed shockingly little emotion about each of these deaths/”deaths” even though he’d been frantic to rescue Derek in other situations, some of them set earlier in the timeline.
He was also on good terms with Erica, showing care about her well-being and trying to save her.
It seems like not questioning deaths is some sort of defense mechanism for him. In fact, he said himself that if he has problems, his instinct is to ignore them until they go away. It’s like he tries to avoid death by taking it at face value and then quickly brushing it off to the side and focusing on something else in a form of denial.
Given this aspect of Stiles’ personality, it’s more likely than not that he legitimately thought Derek was dead rather than captured.
Stiles Might Know Scott’s Conclusions Are Questionable
I also need to point out that Scott assumed the reason Peter was going after Allison when he threatened her was to find Derek, which really makes no sense. Peter said nothing that even slightly referenced Derek while talking to Scott at the clinic. It would make more sense to believe that Peter would go after Allison to get an advantage over Kate, who they knew was his target by then.
Peter didn’t even say anything to indicate that Derek was alive. Scott was still going off his own unexplained conclusion on that front. Scott’s assumptions aren’t generally backed up by a lot of fact or logic and so aren’t the most trustworthy. Stiles may have known this since he spends a lot of time with Scott, so he may not have been very trusting of Scott’s conclusions in general, including the ones about Derek not being dangerous and Derek being alive.
Stiles Was In Persuasion Mode
Stiles only made speculations based on the assumption Derek was alive because Scott believed it and he was trying to convince Scott of a certain course of action. He was using theoretical arguments to try to convince Scott even though they believed different things. Realistically, it was quicker to try to persuade Scott that way than by continuing to argue with Scott over Derek being alive or not.
This is something that happens a lot in academic papers. You deliberately bring up things you think your opposition might say and disprove those things even though you personally don’t think they have merit in the first place.
Stiles talking as if Derek was alive isn’t an indication of Stiles actually thinking Derek was alive.
Counter 3: Stiles is being facetious when he says ignoble things about not saving people
Taking the “leave Derek to die” sentiment at face value is incorrect. He’s frustrated with Scott not agreeing with his opinion (that Derek is dead and they should be focusing on other things) and not following his advice more than anything else. His relationship with Derek is also adversarial and confusing which makes him tetchy when talking about Derek, thus, more likely to use hyperbole.
Stiles often jokes about not going back for others or not getting involved when he doesn’t have to, but he never follows through with those statements. They’re pretty much either sarcastic or frivolous complaints.
It’s a case of “watch what I do, not what I say”. When it comes down to it, he always dives in headfirst to help/save his friends and even strangers. Even when he explicitly tells Scott and Kira that he won’t save them, he runs to their rescue anyway. That shows clearly that what he says is not meant seriously.
Stiles wonders during Season 2 if they might should just kill Jackson, but the one time Scott actually starts talking about killing Jackson, Stiles immediately changes his tune to tell Scott they shouldn’t. Along with how Stiles actually acts, this is a pretty good indicator of Stiles’ actual intentions vs what he says.
Knowing this about Stiles, if Stiles thought Derek was alive, no matter what he said, he would have definitely tried to save Derek if he didn’t view Derek as a threat. Even if he did view Derek as a threat a la trying to kill Jackson, he might still have tried to save him.
Counter 4: Stiles only put what happened together during the confrontation with Peter
When Stiles was talking to Peter, Peter suddenly brought up Derek and talked about him like he was definitely alive. That’s the point that Stiles likely started really believing that Derek was alive.
Stiles was very surprised by Peter’s question which implies that he had no reason to believe that Peter should be looking for Derek. Stiles’ surprise doesn’t make a lot of sense if he thought Derek was alive since Peter and Derek are related and were last known to be working together. There’s no reason for Peter not to be searching for Derek. That means his surprise indicated that he thought Derek was dead.
Peter said that Stiles was deceiving him when he said he didn’t know how to find Derek. That means that in that moment, Stiles knew. It doesn’t mean that Stiles had known all along. Once he realized that Derek was alive, he probably put together the pieces of Scott’s missing phone last being seen when Derek was taken.
Stiles is a sharp cookie and he had already pointed out to Scott that he probably lost his phone during the incident at the house. It wouldn’t be too hard of a leap to figure out Derek took the phone for the GPS function once Stiles knew that he was alive. The way Stiles explained his theory sounded very much like a stream-of-consciousness, on-the-spot realization.
Stiles may have even had the passing thought before that Derek could have taken the phone if he was alive, so it wouldn’t take him long in that case to put it together once he knew Derek really was alive.
He lied to Peter about his realization because Peter was an enemy who just attacked and seriously hurt someone he cared about. Him lying to Peter doesn’t mean that he wouldn’t have tried to save Derek, just that he didn’t want to work with Peter in finding Derek. If Stiles had succeeded in lying to Peter, he may well have attempted to find Derek with Scott after that.
Counter 5: Stiles wouldn’t necessarily have thought his plan to find Derek was likely to succeed
Stiles made a lucky guess that Derek took Scott’s phone in order to hopefully be tracked and found, but Scott’s phone could easily have just been lost in the woods. Between a phone getting dropped by accident and a phone getting dropped and then picked up by someone about to get kidnapped, the odds of it just lying in the forest somewhere are far higher.
Even if Stiles had the idea that Derek might have Scott’s phone earlier on, the odds that he was right weren’t great. He may well have thought of it as a slim possibility, but if he didn’t think Derek was alive, there was no point in bringing it up.
In reality, even if Stiles and Scott had tracked Scott’s phone, they wouldn’t have found Derek. Derek was being held under his house. Since the last place Scott knew he had his phone was the house, they probably would have thought it just got dropped. They wouldn’t have realized it was underneath with Derek. Regular GPS tells longitude and latitude, not depth.
The only way they would have known is if they went to the house and called it, it happened to be on, Scott’s hearing was good enough to hear the vibration, and they somehow figured out there was a hidden area underneath and found the entrance. Considering that Scott was attacked the last time he was at the house, that Scott never really got his wolf powers fully under control or honed, and that Scott and Stiles had no way of knowing of the secret area, that scenario isn’t the likeliest.
To be honest, now that I’m thinking about it, I’m not sure why Peter was so sure that Derek had the phone and was being held under the house. Peter could probably tell Derek was alive through a wolf-bond, but Derek could have been kept elsewhere and the phone could have still been lying forgotten at the house. I guess I just found another plot hole.
Counter 6: Stiles’ actions are probably less problematic than Scott’s
This isn’t really a counterargument, but I need to point out that Scott didn’t want to find Derek for altruistic reasons. Scott himself said he wanted to find Derek because he needed Derek’s help to protect Allison from Peter who had just threatened her.
Deaton had rescued Scott in the woods after the attack at the Hale house and brought him back to the animal clinic. Peter found him there and said that Deaton had something that belonged to him, implying Scott. When Deaton blocked Peter from getting to Scott, Peter then told Scott there were other ways to get what he wanted and implied he’d go after Allison.
When talking to Stiles, Scott was talking from a perspective of wanting to protect Allison. Scott proceeded to spend the entire episode either running interference between Allison and Peter or going to the dance to be with Allison rather than searching for Derek. Since Scott actually thought Derek was alive for sure, I find his actions much more questionable in this case.
Conclusion: It’s really all about interpretation
Honestly, you can interpret Stiles’ actions as having known about and withheld how to find Derek. The canon in this specific situation would support it if that’s the way you wanted to see it, as long as you think Stiles could be so quickly convinced by Scott that Derek was alive.
However, if you want to see it as Stiles coming up with a theory off the cuff, the canon also supports that interpretation. There’s nothing that actually contradicts it.
Personally, I feel that Stiles’ character through the wider context of the rest of the show is more consistent with him thinking that Derek was dead and not putting the pieces together until Peter gave him the last bit of information he needed. Stiles is practical to the point of sounding harsh a lot, but he also has never really left anyone in danger. As much as he might complain or say he’ll do the opposite, he’s always saving people, including Derek.
