Guess who? It's bad.. @eyebulb - Tumblr Blog

"A Lonely Bird in a Golden Cage with His Broken Light, and the Weight of a Golden Chain"

I'll start but saying that if I'm being insensitive and tone deaf here, feel free to correct me, cus I genuinely want to be a good person.

But the Brandon Roger's black face thing infuriates me. For so many reasons.

1. It's been confirmed that it was dragged up by a person who didn't do it in good faith. It came from an account who shit on Viv in general and seems to like starting drama.

2. The video has been addressed and apologized for by Brandon and deleted. He has since then not done it again.

3. Brandon's brand is offensive and controversial.. This is by far not the only offensive thing he's done because that's the kind of humour he does. He jokes about child molesters, transgenderism, asians, disabilities etc.. Etc.. He's a dark humor comedian. He, himself, have not shown to be shitty outside of it.

As a controversial comedian, finding out where the limits are is part of it. What can you joke about, what can't you joke about? I, myself, think that anything can be joked about if it's not in bad faith, but not everyone agrees. He was 19 at the time, most likely not knowing that this was a limit considering he jokes about offensive things all around.

When he realized that it WAS too far, he took it down and apologized. Despite doing this kind of humour, he listened when he went too far. I, personally, think that's a fantastic trait.. Cus god knows it's much more common to see people double down.

4. Are we not gonna allow people to change at all? He didn't hide it, he learned from it and changed. Is that not the goal? It's fine to be upset that it happened.. But holding him accountable for it 18 years down the line doesn't seem productive at all.. It really just seems like people are getting hurt all over again for no reason. It's not relevant anymore. He's not like that, so why?? What's the point?

On a more philosophical note.. I struggle to understand why that's the limit for some people. I know the history of black face, I know why it's vile. That's not what I mean.. But.. Considering Brandon does offensive things overall... Why that particular one? What makes it worse than the rest?

I, personally, didn't see the video and don't know how the joke played out, and maybe that's part of why it was so controversial. But I see people get mad simply because it was black face too, without the context of the video. So.. I don't know, why is that the limit? Feel free to explain cus I'm curious.

Like I said.. I think you can joke about anything if you're a good person when it matters. I also think that you can clock when someone is intentionally harmful instead of joking about the absurdity of it, but I'm not very good at explaining the difference and again.. I didn't see the video so I can't judge the tone of it. I just think that Brandon's reaction is a positive sign.

Anyway... It infuriates me that it seems to have been dragged up in bad faith and got it's intended reaction... It also infuriates me that people aren't allowed to do better. We have different perspectives. A lot of our mistakes comes from ignorance because we don't live in it. We can know it's bad but not how bad and stumble anyway. In that instance, I think it's more important to notice how they react to being told off. That's where you find their intentions, imo. And I will excuse behaviour made without ill intent. Even if the joke was meant to be offensive. Offensive jokes aren't always made with ill intent towards the victims.. Usually dark humor aims to make fun of the perpetrators. We're supposed to agree that the stereotype is offensive and laugh at it's existence and what not..

I think I went on a tangent, sorry haha. I'm just.. Exhausted by how black and white everything is..

lazyanimation

I want to start off by saying that im not attacking you, I just want to inform you since you seem willing to learn.

1. Brandon barely apologized and made a vague response about it. An good apology address what they did wrong (so people can know without having to search to find out), explan why it was wrong, don't downplay or excuse what they did, and promise to change. Brandon didn't do any of this in the apology. The reason why its so important for public figures to do all these steps is because fans would defend their actions and they have a lot of influence.

2. Even if its a good apology and it was a long time ago, nobody HAS to forgive him. If this is enough for someone to stop supporting him or to resent him, then they are right to feel that way.

3. You didn't watch the video, how can you confidently defend something you barely know anything about?

4. The reason why this is the limit for a lot of people because it was an entire 3 minutes of making fun of black people and doing blackface. He put every stereotype possible and even implied that what black people eat are equivalent to shit. Not to mention that blackface is used to reinforce harmful stereotypes about black, which Brandon clearly does.

(List of stereotypes included in the video, black people eating chicken, kool-aid, cornbread, watermelon, and an entire pumpkin raw. Every black character having a gun. Every black character being violent. Having long and stupid names for all the black characters. The white character being the only normal one. And this isn't even all of it.)

5. People ARE bringing up the other things he did, like yellow face.

6. This isn't just not knowing where the limit is, this is a mockery and a whole 3 minutes of it at that.

7. I understand your sympathy towards Brandon but what about the black fans that might have been hurt by this. Not even just black fans but the yellow face, ableism, all of it can really hurt someone and make them feel unwelcomed in fanbases. There was a black cosplayer who was scared to even wear a cosplay because of how racist the TADC fandom been.

I really hope my tone wasn't rude or mean, it's really hard for me to word things properly.

eyebulb

Thanks for responding. 1. I'd wish to see the video myself. If it's still up I'll look into it. I've just seen people talk about it and that's why it seemed to have been accepted at the time. 2. I agree that people don't have to forgive him. I don't know if I mentioned it in this post specifically but I have mentioned it on this topic before. Everyone has different limits. If knowing this means his work is ruined for you, you have every right to not support him anymore. However, you do not hold authority over how anyone else feels about it. I have seen people get pretty harassed for forgiving him too. And that isn't okay either. 3. I usually don't. And I don't defend the video in itself. That's not what I was here to do. I do, however, critique the other side a bit who attack him and people who forgive him without seeing the video too. Which is what I focused on. I was open about not having watched the video to be clear that I wasn't defending his actions in themselves. I am, however, questioning the motives of bringing it up and reopening a wound that hasn't been relevant in some time. And It's being spread among people without seeing the video too. 4. See this is the point I was trying to make by stating that not just me, but people who spread this around hasn't seen the video. They grabbed onto the blackface part of it and ran with that without the context. And understand me correctly here, I just didn't understand why doing blackface was worse than all the other stereotypes and offensive humour he's done. He's known for this kind of humour. You're absolutely allowed to be offended by it and hate him for it.. but this thing became so big despite the fact that he has similar stuff still up that didn't give this big of a reaction. I'm not saying people can't be upset about it, I'm just confused why the outrage came from this specific thing when this is what he's known for? It felt like a hate campaign specifically for him with information that shouldn't really be surprising considering who it's about. 7. And that's kinda my point.. Dragging this up again after so many years IS hurting people. That seems to have been the intent which is why it upsets me. Not just for Brandon's sake, who probably thought that was over and done with but for all of those who DID get upset by this. It is also upsetting because the hellaverse especially is supposed to be about accepting differences, whatever they may be. It's a place that's supposed to be welcoming even to freaks and I haven't seen any recent behaviour from Brandon that goes against that. Dark humour is a fine line to walk. Brandon has been doing a lot of offensive shit because that's what he's about. He's also mostly been an equal opportunity for all - kind of dark comedian. He'd make fun of anyone and everyone. That's what he's known for. And it is for a specific kind of audience. Even for those who he makes fun of. Not everyone who's targeted takes offense to it because we know that isn't the point. He's not telling us what he feels about the people he makes fun of with his humour, like I said dark humour is usually about making fun of the stereotypes or perpetrators in themselves. Which is why he can get so many people to agree to make fun of themselves, most likely. Had this been about him as a person handling interactions with people shitty, I would've understood a bit more but.. I haven't heard that about him at all which really just makes this seem like a ploy to ruin something people enjoy. Which just upsets me. I also don't wanna come off as shitty here. I agree that from the sounds of it, that video is a whole lot of things to be mad about. And you're absolutely allowed to be upset about it. I get where it's coming from. I also feel like... If you know Brandon.. it shouldn't have been a surprise because it's in line with what he's famous for. Which is why I'm wondering what people's limits here are.

helluvagirlboss

Okay because you seem willing to learn, I want also elaborate on the questions you're asking. I especially want to elaborate on why the blackface incident specifically is a LOT worse than your typical "edgy" humor, especially because you mentioned not living in the U.S.

First I want to address the point you made here:

However, you do not hold authority over how anyone else feels about it. I have seen people get pretty harassed for forgiving him too. And that isn't okay either.

I agree with this in essence, but I want to point out that this is not something for anyone who isn't black to "forgive." Just because I don't hold this video as an indictment of his whole character doesn't mean I have a place to "forgive" him for this because I'm not black.

And just like people don't have a right to tell us to condemn him for this, it's also not my place to demand black fans overlook this because no matter how long ago it was, the video was still racist and wrong and at 19, he was still old enough to know better.

If a black fan doesn't want to watch Helluva Boss or watch any more of his content because he did blackface, they're well within their right to do so. It's not up to anyone who isn't black to "forgive" him because we weren't the offended party.

I am, however, questioning the motives of bringing it up and reopening a wound that hasn't been relevant in some time. And It's being spread among people without seeing the video too.

This, I actually do agree with. I don't trust the motives of the person who chose to dig through his history specifically to blast him for this. Because there are many people who didn't know he did blackface, which tells me that people either dug through his history to find something to cancel him over, or that they did know he did this, but sat on the information until it was opportune to reopen controversy in the fanbase.

But regardless of whether the person who brought it up had good intentions or not, it's still a gross thing that Brandon did no matter how long ago it was.

They grabbed onto the blackface part of it and ran with that without the context. And understand me correctly here, I just didn't understand why doing blackface was worse than all the other stereotypes and offensive humour he's done. He's known for this kind of humour. You're absolutely allowed to be offended by it and hate him for it.. but this thing became so big despite the fact that he has similar stuff still up that didn't give this big of a reaction. I'm not saying people can't be upset about it, I'm just confused why the outrage came from this specific thing when this is what he's known for? It felt like a hate campaign specifically for him with information that shouldn't really be surprising considering who it's about.

So here's the thing about blackface, it has a long history of extreme racism in the United States. It was often used to paint caricatured images of black people with not only the expressed purpose to mock them, but also to make white people feel better about the oppression they were subjected to in the United States.

Its expressed purpose was degradation and dehumanization of black people to let people feel justified in their oppression of them. Considering the fact antiblack racism is STILL quite terrible in the United States, and that antiblack racism is still NOT taken seriously, the revelation that Brandon Rogers participated in this very thing broke the hearts of a LOT of people.

Yes, Brandon Rogers is known for his edgy humor, but there is a line between edgy humor and punchdown humor and his Blackface skit was a LOT of punchdown humor that justifiably rubbed people the wrong way. Not only because of its racist history, but also the fact that its expressed purpose, dehumanization and degradation of black people, is something that is still happening in the United States.

Dark humour is a fine line to walk. Brandon has been doing a lot of offensive shit because that's what he's about. He's also mostly been an equal opportunity for all - kind of dark comedian. He'd make fun of anyone and everyone. That's what he's known for. And it is for a specific kind of audience. Even for those who he makes fun of. Not everyone who's targeted takes offense to it because we know that isn't the point. He's not telling us what he feels about the people he makes fun of with his humour, like I said dark humour is usually about making fun of the stereotypes or perpetrators in themselves. Which is why he can get so many people to agree to make fun of themselves, most likely.

To address this point, like I said, there is a fine line between dark and edgy humor and punchdown humor. And his blackface skit had a LOT of punchdown humor. Even amongst people who like dark humor, dark jokes targeting black people can be a VERY easy ticket into being straight up racist because of how prevalent antiblack racism and hate crimes still are here.

Here's the thing about you knowing that he's not telling us how he feels about people. Regardless of how he actually feels about these people, the fact still remains that his blackface video WAS making fun of black people themselves.

"He's not telling us what he feels about the people he makes fun of with his humor, like I said dark humor is usually about making fun of the stereotypes or perpetrators in themselves." Not everyone knows that about him and regardless of whether or not you do, people are still allowed to take offense to the video because the video was gross. Second of all, if he was attempting to mock the stereotypes of black people, he did a VERY bad job of that the video ended up just being incredibly racist against black people.

I know you're not trying to come across as dismissive, but I really want you to understand why people were more pissed off about his blackface video and that blackface carries a LOT more sensitive history in the United States.

Just like people don't have a right to tell us to hate Brandon for this video, it is not up to us to tell other people, especially black fans, to get over it.

And saying that this is "just his brand" is not going to cut it. There is a line and he crossed it, and while I also don't trust the intentions of the person who chose to resurface the video, to reiterate my main point with this:

Antiblack racism is not something that is up to any who isn't black to "forgive."

That is up to the black fans themselves and all we can do is support them, whether they choose to forgive him or not.

eyebulb

I am not against anything you're saying here. I understand the personal offense people take to this. I should've specified who I'm addressing this to, I think. I, will never tell a black person what they should or shouldn't get offended by. Some of the people I've seen get harassed over forgiving him has also been black people, those are the people I want to protect. As an outsider, say a white person, who should hold any kind of racism, ableism or homophobia under the same kind of standards as all of them resulted in incredibly horrific treatment of people, I didn't trust the outrage people had without context. This got spread around by people who didn't know the context of the video too. And when I wrote this the first time, most of the people I saw getting incredibly outraged about this and the people who forgave him hadn't seen the video and spoke as if they weren't the target. (As in, most likely someone who wasn't black trying to defend black people). I think it's fantastic to want to defend people. But I also think that it sometimes goes too far and we should be careful before we know the context.. especially around something that already has controversy for the wrong reasons. Without knowing what the video contained, why was the reaction stronger from people it didn't target? But within the context of the US, where that's one of the bigger issues, I guess I understand from a knee-jerk standpoint. I just think that if you don't think it's okay to joke about blackface in general, the rest of his stuff shouldn't have been okay either. I was mostly speaking from the perspective that generally, people who spread it did know of him. I wish I could see the video, but yeah.. punchdown humour is not the same and that's at best incredibly clumsy and ofc that can be a deal-breaker for you. From what it sounds like I completely understand why the video itself was considered worse than the rest of his content. I just also wish that people would keep in mind that this was long ago, deleted for a reason and as far as I can tell, hasn't happened again. I think both can be true. This thing was incredibly horrible, and you can be incredibly disappointed and wanting to stop supporting him. Ofc you can. But I think we also need to leave room for growth. Not on an individual level, but as a general whole.

Honestly, I find it hard to articulate exactly what I mean. But just know that I don't want to involve myself in how the targeted people feel about it, and that isn't what I'm trying to do.

burntoutjack

More character designs. Susie Crane, sinner with a temper who often loses her head. Idea was wrecking ball but can not escape the chain chomp accusations.

darypeacher

angelshizuka

The haters accusing Vivziepop of being "an highschooler who refused to mature herself and her idea" is so stupid yet so funny.

Vivziepop is actually way more mature and smart than those stupid "critics" could ever hope to be!

She had a great idea in high school and she decided to share it with the world! She did mature, and her idea matured with her!!!!

Meanwhile, these "critics" are the actual immature ones that keeps doing bad and dumb takes on this amazing franchise! They are the only ones here who refuses to mature!!!!

I would feel bad for them, if they weren't such awful human beings!

One thing I love about the Hellaverse is how it's "high school cringe" through an adult lense. Basically, what we (unapologetically) loved during our teens and now know how to streamline.

I feel like people who criticize Viv for that specifically just still have a lot of shame around "high school cringe". Real maturity is realizing there was never anything actually wrong with that. It's especially late teens/early adulthood where you have this "I'm too old for that" mindset, that you grow out of in your late 20s/early 30s.

Yes, The hellaverse has some real depths. I love how hard hitting and personal it can get sometimes. I love the details and the energy put into creating this world and these characters. And how much love is put into the project overall. But I feel like some people forget.. that they also make things just for fun. Not everything has meaning, nor is it meant to be something deep. These shows are 50% actual deep drama and 50% childish stupidity for the heck of it. That's why I love it. Cus, man, being an adult is serious enough as it is. We're allowed to laugh at dick-jokes. It's fine if it's not your cup of tea but it really shouldn't surprise you if you've spent time with these shows. Some things that they make isn't for the fans in particular either, but for the ones who work on it. The music video is of a song the VA of Chaz wrote years ago. He's having fun with his character and I'm happy he's getting to do things for that character cus it makes HIM happy. When it comes to side-stuff like this, I really just don't expect anything. Cus it's just snippets of fun to fill the time. God knows I have my share of shorts that I don't like very much. But it might make someone happy and that's enough for me.

#helluva boss #hellaverse #I sometimes feel old #Like.. sometimes I feel like the silly part of these shows are for the old and weary #those who are just too tired to care about what they don't like and just wanna be stupid #I usually consider myself to be picky about humour #like I enjoy clever humour #but i've also noticed that I am a sucker for sexual humour #idk why I just am #So the hellaverse is like perfect for me #It has both depth and stupidity #I love both #I think it's sad when people complain about stuff that is in character for the show #like.. this is what it's been.. don't be mad.. it's just being itself #It's fine to be disappointed.. but like.. just think about it #Don't get too stuck in it

gay-shrimp-eaters

flashback to that time i saw someone on here say that helluva boss was morally worse to watch than hazbin hotel because, according to them, helluva boss is going to have a full-on explicit sex scene in it in the future (like, totally uncensored and everything. they didn't credit a source for this). The hypocrisy of this is the fact that hazbin hotel is already very explicit in episode 4. Helluva may have a lot more sex jokes but Poison is easily more graphic than anything in that show. It's also about sexual violence, which is a very dark topic. However, according to purists, it's morally worse to watch an explicit scene about healthy, consensual sex than it is to watch a somewhat less explicit montage about rape and assault. Depictions of consensual sex 'infects' your morality more than depictions of SA if it shows more nudity. I can't even. Obviously watching neither of these things infects your morality. Anyway, screw purity culture and consume more media.

#nothing wrong with sex scenes honestly #I'd be impressed if Helluva actually put in a detailed sex scene one day #that'd be more daring than I thought they would get #but honestly.. I've never understood how sex is worse than violence overall..#Honestly I'd like for that to disappear #not counting sexual violence ofc that's a category on it's own..#but like regular consensual sex? what's wrong with that?#It can make you uncomfortable ofc #you don't have to enjoy watching sex #but.. i don't understand the outrage #and it kinda feels weird if you've gotten this far to actually watch these shows #cus they're obviously filled with sex .. pretty openly

royalromper

always mildly baffled when people talk about Stolas viewing Blitz as beneath him early in their relationship as though it's an indisputable canon fact

I won't argue he doesn't have unconscious bias, but I thought it was pretty clear that one of their early problems was him not even registering the power difference between them as a big deal

as far as Stolas is concerned, Blitz is confident, outspoken, domineering, independent, owns his own business, and clearly has zero problem speaking his mind to Stolas and saying no if something is inconvenient. if he objectifies him it's by putting him on a pedestal as his perfect dream come true romantic hero. until it's pointed out to him he has no reason to think the book deal isn't just a romantic game they're playing, and he has absolutely zero frame of reference for living paycheck to paycheck or to think that's something Blitz would be concerned about

between the two it's Blitz who's hyperaware of their class difference (understandably) and constantly reduces Stolas to just his status like... all the time lol. he's the one who thinks the idea of an imp and a goetia dating is so absurd that it can't be anything other than a kink, and constantly tries to convince himself that Stolas is just rich asshole prince who couldn't possibly actually care about him

idk do people not get that Blitz saying "Stolas just likes the thrill of being fucked by the lower class" is a reflection on Blitz's own insecurities, not a factual statement? especially when followed up by how Stolas is totally just pretending to care about his day and laugh at his jokes?

eyebulb

Hell yes! Exactly! Yes.. Stolas uses language that is demeaning. He calls imps tiny and small all the time and he doesn't use the name of other imps who aren't Blitz. He is severely out of touch with reality when it comes to this. But with Blitz specifically, he doesn't think about the class difference at all. He doesn't clock that Blitz does either, because he's so infatuated by him and feel so vulnerable by his own emotions towards him. He used demeaning language thinking he's being cute cus.. it's just facts really. Blitz is tiny in comparison to Stolas. Stolas seems to like him just the way he is so for him it's endearing. His problem is that he DOESN'T see the class differences between them. That's WHY he acts in a demeaning way even though he doesn't actually want to hurt Blitz. He doesn't register it cus he's oblivious as hell AND because to him, BLITZ has the power. Just look at how he acts when Blitz tells him his outfit is too much. Boy is a wreck. Insecure as all hell. He doesn't think he has any power in their dynamic. The version of Stolas people hate so much is the version Blitz thought he was.. That's not who Stolas is.. it's almost as if that's a whole plot point.

royalromper

feel like I'm going insane every time I see people frame Stolas saving Blitz in Mastermind as him abandoning Octavia and is therefore the worst dad ever.

it's understandable for a codependent teenage girl to see it that way but surely grown ass adult viewers can discern that Blitz was the only one in a life or death scenario. Via is upset but she is physically fine, someone's life is more important than someone else's feelings. Stolas made the right choice, I don't consider this remotely debatable.

idk, it's just an insane standard I can't remember seeing applied to any other character in any fandom I've ever been in. imagine people calling Blitz a terrible father to Loona because he put himself in danger to save Fizz.