The funny thing about people saying that Will Solace is just the fanon version of Percy Jackson is that Rick Riordan actually went out of his way to make show Percy look exactly like book Will Solace.
It’s even funnier because Percy was once Rick’s favorite, and now Rick hates him and has made Will his favorite. Will, a.k.a. fanon Percy. So, not only did Rick retcon Nico’s crush on Percy, but he also gave him the chibified version of him as a love interest, whilst claiming Percy was not his type.
The funny thing about people saying that Will Solace is just the fanon version of Percy Jackson is that Rick Riordan actually went out of his way to make show Percy look exactly like book Will Solace.
It’s even funnier because Percy was once Rick’s favorite, and now Rick hates him and has made Will his favorite. Will, a.k.a. fanon Percy. So, not only did Rick retcon Nico’s crush on Percy, but he also gave him the chibified version of him as a love interest, whilst claiming Percy was not his type.
I have only one question for Kronos — why did he stop Ares?!
I remind you that in the books, Percy not only did not "beat up" the god of war, but also didn't fight "to the first blood" — after Percy was able to cut Ares once, the god got pissed off, but Kronos intervened and stopped him.
The question is, what the fuck? He wanted to kill Percy for personal reasons (aka the whole scorpion scene is clearly hinting), so why stop Ares? Or did he really want Luke to do it?
I have only one question for Kronos — why did he stop Ares?!
I remind you that in the books, Percy not only did not "beat up" the god of war, but also didn't fight "to the first blood" — after Percy was able to cut Ares once, the god got pissed off, but Kronos intervened and stopped him.
The question is, what the fuck? He wanted to kill Percy for personal reasons (aka the whole scorpion scene is clearly hinting), so why stop Ares? Or did he really want Luke to do it?
I have been skimming through some of the Luke and Hermes scenes in SOM. I think Luke may be my Draco Malfoy / Severus Snape of Percy Jackson. AKA the incentive for me to crack open the source material.
Anyway, am I the only one who literally finds Luke funny? Like I know he is casually threatening kids with violence...but the way it's presented feels so forced? I don't know how to explain it? It's like Luke is trying to act all big and bad now that he's left camp. A little bit similar to how Draco acts with Crabbe and Goyle. Sometimes, when Luke starts screaming, he reminds me of a child throwing a tantrum.
I can't find it in myself to hate him. The entire thing makes me want to pat his head and force him to therapy.
By the way, the scene where Luke was unhinged with anger and Percy exposed him made me roll my eyes. I won't take Percy's victory away from him...but there's a difference between genuinely outsmarting an opponent in a game of wits vs outsmarting an opponent because the author needs the bad guy to info dump. I know Luke was pissed and stressed but he told Percy information that he didn't even say before.
True. He's really edgy, especially in SOM (unfortunately it's because the whole writing in this book is actual clowning 🤡, but there's some moments where it's not so bad or even almost good), but it's make total sense, considering he's barely out of teens from still a military environment, without any real support, after homelessness for years and trauma… well, Luke kinda stuck in his 14 and it's noticeable.
I have been skimming through some of the Luke and Hermes scenes in SOM. I think Luke may be my Draco Malfoy / Severus Snape of Percy Jackson. AKA the incentive for me to crack open the source material.
Anyway, am I the only one who literally finds Luke funny? Like I know he is casually threatening kids with violence...but the way it's presented feels so forced? I don't know how to explain it? It's like Luke is trying to act all big and bad now that he's left camp. A little bit similar to how Draco acts with Crabbe and Goyle. Sometimes, when Luke starts screaming, he reminds me of a child throwing a tantrum.
I can't find it in myself to hate him. The entire thing makes me want to pat his head and force him to therapy.
By the way, the scene where Luke was unhinged with anger and Percy exposed him made me roll my eyes. I won't take Percy's victory away from him...but there's a difference between genuinely outsmarting an opponent in a game of wits vs outsmarting an opponent because the author needs the bad guy to info dump. I know Luke was pissed and stressed but he told Percy information that he didn't even say before.
True. He's really edgy, especially in SOM (unfortunately it's because the whole writing in this book is actual clowning 🤡, but there's some moments where it's not so bad or even almost good), but it's make total sense, considering he's barely out of teens from still a military environment, without any real support, after homelessness for years and trauma… well, Luke kinda stuck in his 14 and it's noticeable.
there's a lot of conflict in the pjo fandom on how to view Luke as an antagonist
and it's because he got retconned which is what I don't see discussed as much in these arguments
a lot of people who are Luke apologists, or find him sympathetic, or think that Percy could have ever joined Luke are those who believe that Luke was doing all of his villainy to the benefit of demigods
but that's all information coming from TLO, the only time Luke says anything about helping other demigods instead of just being selfish and about his own ego is in TLO as he's dying and no earlier
even his sympathetic backstory regarding May is entirely contained within TLO even if the audience has been aware from TLT that he ran away
There's no reason to believe May or a desire to help demigods had anything to do with Luke's original reasoning for joining Kronos or that Riordan had this in mind when he started the series
because Luke straight up gives all of his reasoning and motivations in his monologue at the end of TLT to Percy
but I do want to note that Luke showed signs of not being quite so wholesome as he appeared well before he isolated Percy in the woods, he first shows anger at Hermes really early on in his introduction when Percy first arrived at camp, and he kind of targets and isolates Percy in any sword fighting lessons they have once he proves to be a natural and he avoided Percy after the quest until he lured him into the woods, it's all pretty obvious Luke has other things going on because this is YA and on the younger side of YA so you can't be quite that subtle about it but I think it gets forgotten compared to the larger incidents when you haven't reread the books recently
When Luke does finally reveal himself and list all his motivations there are two main ideas within them
first, Luke is espousing social Darwinism survival of the fittest ideology that is outright anti-social and anti-intellectual as he wants to destroy infrastructure and knowledge to return to people living in caves
second, Luke is showing extreme amounts of hubris implied to have been cultivated by Kronos as he says Kronos identified his talents better than Hermes did (iow flattered Luke's ego), Luke believes he will be at the top of this social Darwin food chain with no concern for what would happen to other demigods, and despite his failures that he refuses to acknowledge when it came to stealing the lightning bolt, he instead boasts that the gods are stupid and about how easy it was to steal, he straight up believes he could have taken on Ares when the god caught him barely outside of NYC and Kronos had to bail him out, and Luke blames Grover for the cursed shoes failing when Luke was the one who gave a son of Poseidon that the sky god was mad about existing a pair of flying shoes, Percy obviously wasn't going to use them
Luke in TLT is not working for the betterment of demigods or anything other than his own ego, Luke wants to destroy Olympus brick by brick because he saw Hermes giving him a quest that Heracles had performed as an insult to his ego so he didn't take it seriously, failed and was scarred, he felt humiliated and unable to bear the injury to his overinflated ego, he turned it into anger at his father and Kronos took advantage
this is the heart of this character prior to any retcon in TLO, it is not sympathetic and Percy has no interest in it and doesn't believe in or agree with it
a lot of people also argue about whether or not Luke is a groomer
he is objectively a groomer as grooming does not always mean for sexual abuse, anyone he converted to Kronos's side was ideologically or religiously groomed depending on how you want to look at shifting allegiance from the gods to the titans within PJO, we know for sure in canon that at minimum Luke convinced Chris to come with him as he was in cabin eleven before being seen on the Princess Andromeda and Luke is explicit about demigods pledging themselves to Kronos drags a piece of him out of the pit so he groomed Chris into coming with him for at least this purpose before using him as cannon fodder in BotL
the one flip where Luke was made worse in TLO vs prior characterization is whether or not he was grooming characters sexually and a pedophile, Annabeth clearly had a crush on him in TLT which he is not seen by Percy to reciprocate but in TLO Luke asks Annabeth if she loves him and Annabeth clarifying it as in a familial way does push it into assuming Luke meant it romantically, and Silena describes Luke as charming her before blackmailing her into being a spy, so the reader has to decide if Luke was only interested in the information and just using charm to get it or if he was also interested in Silena and this will always be ymmv because there's no confirmation either way within the text on this
what isn't debatable is Luke trafficking demigods he can't groom into joining the Titan's army as Geryon states he gets paid for delivering demigods to the titan's army and as I pointed out before, Luke used Chris among other demigods as cannon fodder to try and figure out how to navigate the labyrinth
there's nothing sympathetic here ideologically or in his actions so Luke's comments about demigods ring hollow in TLO in light of his previous actions
While these retcons might have made Luke sympathetic to some, I find them insincere and jarring and also make him an objectively worse character and antagonist
PJO is a series about setting variations on Greek myths in the modern (mid 2000s) era
the ancient Greek religion did not have sins in the way Christians understand sins, but hubris is the closest they get to having that as multiple myths concern punishing mortals who try to rise above the gods and claim they're better than them
why would you state that this particular worst characteristic in all of Greek myth is your deuteragonist and love interest's fatal flaw (I say state because I don't completely agree that Annabeth is hubristic) when your main mortal antagonist is brimming with arrogance and has an overinflated ego?
Luke thinks he's better than he is at everything, and he thinks he's better than the gods to the point of being able to bring down Olympus, he is arrogant way beyond anything Annabeth is capable of and it should be a major character trait for a villain in a story pulling from Greek myth, this was the correct narrative choice
but more than that Luke is espousing social Darwinism an anti-social ideology of the 20th century which is updating him out of Greek myth in line with the setting and other similar changes Riordan made
but I actually think the PJO books could have been prescient if Riordan had leaned into the TLT characterization rather than away from it given the way the 2010s ended up shaping up
Luke can absolutely be interpreted as a radicalized and disaffected middle class young man inside the PJO universe
sure in the mortal world he ran away from home and is broke, but in PJO, he's the claimed son of an Olympic god and has that god's favor, he's good looking, an excellent swordsman, and has authority over the largest cabin as a camp counselor, he has it basically as good as you can get it at as a demigod at CHB had he not decided to not take his quest seriously
he's pissed off because he was entitled as he thought he deserved an entirely new quest and to do it perfectly and he couldn't take the hit to his ego when he didn't get that then he listened to the Greek myth equivalent of a retvrn podcast aka Kronos talking in his dreams
Luke could have been a compelling combination of the absolute worst of anti-social behavior out of Greek myth aka hubris and combined it with what was in the mid 2000s then to come anti-social trend of young men getting funneled into the alt-right of the 2010s and beyond, it's like right there with Luke's jock to preppy clothing style and everything
the only flaw with this is that PJO as a series is concerned with ending familial cycles of violence rather than getting into the political weeds of overthrowing the gods and isn't a good one to one of alt-right/fascists wanting to overthrow democracy in favor of dictatorship, but a family member descending into the alt-right is a real issue families have had to deal with so it's not as if the focus and themes of the series couldn't have been maintained by leaning into these aspects of Luke seen in TLT
so why didn't Riordan do that? Why did he retcon Luke into being more sympathetic and acting like he cared about demigods?
I can't say for sure, but I think he didn't want to have Percy kill a mortal character with his own hands instead of by bomb (or editors said he wasn't allowed) even though he'd already depicted Percy as willing to kill Gabe at 12
but also a little bit he wanted to tie it back to making life better for demigods leading into Percy asking for his gift for the gods as if killing an anti-social antagonist isn't enough for pro-social raise your kids better messaging
I think both are weak arguments compared to what could have been done if Luke wasn't retconned to be more sympathetic, I think the audience could be trusted to remember Percy had criticism about the gods' parenting without prompting from Luke
it also doesn't help that Percy is made to give Hermes a pass on his parenting of Luke right after all this in TLO because Hermes is supposed to be the good parent out of the gods I guess, but it kind of undercuts the overall criticism of the gods' parenting and even Luke's retcon into caring about other demigods and being a victim of Hermes' parenting to garner sympathy, like why have the parent of the antagonist in a series about bad parenting receive the least amount of criticism from the protagonist?
Basically, the argument on Luke should be what a massive missed opportunity he was and that weakening your antagonist like this to the point a section of the fanbase thinks your protagonist could have joined him at any point weakens any narrative and ideological differences between your protagonist and antagonist thereby weakening the overall themes of your narrative
killing off an anti-social antagonist will always be a stronger pro-social message than killing off a secretly pro-social or same ends different means one in a high stakes fantasy series like pjo
the people who find Luke sympathetic will continue to find Luke sympathetic, but it doesn't change there was a retcon that weakened him thematically as a character
I think you should reread Luke's monoligs, because the desire to change the world for demigods is in both the first and second books as well. It didn't focus on it, and it's obvious that Rick didn't figure out what he wanted from the series at the time, but the demigods theme didn't come out of nowhere.
Yes, it's a big stretch on Rick's part to try to dramatically shift the focus of attention, but at least it's a fact that it's always been there.
not only did I recently reread these books, hence why I even made this post, I'm also currently doing a canon divergent fic covering these books basically going through them line by line and I'm nearly done with SoM so this is all the stuff I've read most recently, and I double checked my evidence writing this post
the most Luke says in TLT about demigods in his monologue at the end is that they're heroic pawns of the gods unless you want to count them under humanity when he says humanity should be driven back into their caves except for the strongest who will serve Kronos
this is literally the social darwinism I described
so like yeah I guess you can call it changing the world for demigods, but not for the better, it's still social Darwinism and only two lines have anything to do with demigods/humanity out of his entire monologue boasting about his fall to the dark side and his failed plan and his grievances are personal not about demigods as a group
It's not a fact it was always there, it's a retcon
I do see what you mean, but I think Luke's general hate towards Western civilization as something clearly poisonous + comment about demigods being pawns is the foundation (not intentional) for that later theme.
But, yeah, I completely agree that this focus on social Darwinism, which Rick immediately trying to erase and never brings up again, except Luke's obvious dislike of mortals, is the retcon — Rick had no idea what he actually tried to do.
That might be what Riordan tried to pull something out of to make his retcon have some sort of sense, but Luke's hubris and personal grievance with Hermes takes up the focus of his monologue and even the heroic pawns line is arguably also in reference to Luke's denigration of the quest Hermes gave him which he seas as beneath him and the comment on Western civilization is basically an aside which isn't built upon, Luke's arrogance and anger are the foundation of his character in TLT
it also doesn't make sense to call those asides from Luke foundational to the overall theme critical of the gods' neglectful parenting of demigods when Percy's narration even in TLT is critical of the rich parents in Yancy, when he first sees cabin eleven and says the gods should be better, his own negative and critical reaction to Poseidon over the course of the book, it's there with Percy and as I said originally, Luke should have been the antithesis of this which he was in TLT
I think Riordan made an attempt at giving Luke a character arc away from his hubris over the course of the series which is fine and not what I have an issue with, Luke should face the consequences of his action and becoming fearful of Kronos is a reasonable and logical consequence for him
but even if the social darwinism doesn't come up so explicitly again, Luke is still shown behaving callously and using demigods for his or Kronos's ends up until TLO as I pointed out and at the end all he says about demigods is not to let it happen again which is really not that much
it's retconning the other four books of Luke's characterization to say that not letting it happen again to demigods was Luke's true motivation especially from the beginning as it was inserted last minute in TLO and contradicts what preceded it
Well, in my head, there's really no contradiction between Luke's callous and ruthless behavior towards his army and the fact that he spent his last breath asking for demigods at the same time… but yes, I get it.
Cause yes, it's obvious it wasn't Rick's original plan.
there's a lot of conflict in the pjo fandom on how to view Luke as an antagonist
and it's because he got retconned which is what I don't see discussed as much in these arguments
a lot of people who are Luke apologists, or find him sympathetic, or think that Percy could have ever joined Luke are those who believe that Luke was doing all of his villainy to the benefit of demigods
but that's all information coming from TLO, the only time Luke says anything about helping other demigods instead of just being selfish and about his own ego is in TLO as he's dying and no earlier
even his sympathetic backstory regarding May is entirely contained within TLO even if the audience has been aware from TLT that he ran away
There's no reason to believe May or a desire to help demigods had anything to do with Luke's original reasoning for joining Kronos or that Riordan had this in mind when he started the series
because Luke straight up gives all of his reasoning and motivations in his monologue at the end of TLT to Percy
but I do want to note that Luke showed signs of not being quite so wholesome as he appeared well before he isolated Percy in the woods, he first shows anger at Hermes really early on in his introduction when Percy first arrived at camp, and he kind of targets and isolates Percy in any sword fighting lessons they have once he proves to be a natural and he avoided Percy after the quest until he lured him into the woods, it's all pretty obvious Luke has other things going on because this is YA and on the younger side of YA so you can't be quite that subtle about it but I think it gets forgotten compared to the larger incidents when you haven't reread the books recently
When Luke does finally reveal himself and list all his motivations there are two main ideas within them
first, Luke is espousing social Darwinism survival of the fittest ideology that is outright anti-social and anti-intellectual as he wants to destroy infrastructure and knowledge to return to people living in caves
second, Luke is showing extreme amounts of hubris implied to have been cultivated by Kronos as he says Kronos identified his talents better than Hermes did (iow flattered Luke's ego), Luke believes he will be at the top of this social Darwin food chain with no concern for what would happen to other demigods, and despite his failures that he refuses to acknowledge when it came to stealing the lightning bolt, he instead boasts that the gods are stupid and about how easy it was to steal, he straight up believes he could have taken on Ares when the god caught him barely outside of NYC and Kronos had to bail him out, and Luke blames Grover for the cursed shoes failing when Luke was the one who gave a son of Poseidon that the sky god was mad about existing a pair of flying shoes, Percy obviously wasn't going to use them
Luke in TLT is not working for the betterment of demigods or anything other than his own ego, Luke wants to destroy Olympus brick by brick because he saw Hermes giving him a quest that Heracles had performed as an insult to his ego so he didn't take it seriously, failed and was scarred, he felt humiliated and unable to bear the injury to his overinflated ego, he turned it into anger at his father and Kronos took advantage
this is the heart of this character prior to any retcon in TLO, it is not sympathetic and Percy has no interest in it and doesn't believe in or agree with it
a lot of people also argue about whether or not Luke is a groomer
he is objectively a groomer as grooming does not always mean for sexual abuse, anyone he converted to Kronos's side was ideologically or religiously groomed depending on how you want to look at shifting allegiance from the gods to the titans within PJO, we know for sure in canon that at minimum Luke convinced Chris to come with him as he was in cabin eleven before being seen on the Princess Andromeda and Luke is explicit about demigods pledging themselves to Kronos drags a piece of him out of the pit so he groomed Chris into coming with him for at least this purpose before using him as cannon fodder in BotL
the one flip where Luke was made worse in TLO vs prior characterization is whether or not he was grooming characters sexually and a pedophile, Annabeth clearly had a crush on him in TLT which he is not seen by Percy to reciprocate but in TLO Luke asks Annabeth if she loves him and Annabeth clarifying it as in a familial way does push it into assuming Luke meant it romantically, and Silena describes Luke as charming her before blackmailing her into being a spy, so the reader has to decide if Luke was only interested in the information and just using charm to get it or if he was also interested in Silena and this will always be ymmv because there's no confirmation either way within the text on this
what isn't debatable is Luke trafficking demigods he can't groom into joining the Titan's army as Geryon states he gets paid for delivering demigods to the titan's army and as I pointed out before, Luke used Chris among other demigods as cannon fodder to try and figure out how to navigate the labyrinth
there's nothing sympathetic here ideologically or in his actions so Luke's comments about demigods ring hollow in TLO in light of his previous actions
While these retcons might have made Luke sympathetic to some, I find them insincere and jarring and also make him an objectively worse character and antagonist
PJO is a series about setting variations on Greek myths in the modern (mid 2000s) era
the ancient Greek religion did not have sins in the way Christians understand sins, but hubris is the closest they get to having that as multiple myths concern punishing mortals who try to rise above the gods and claim they're better than them
why would you state that this particular worst characteristic in all of Greek myth is your deuteragonist and love interest's fatal flaw (I say state because I don't completely agree that Annabeth is hubristic) when your main mortal antagonist is brimming with arrogance and has an overinflated ego?
Luke thinks he's better than he is at everything, and he thinks he's better than the gods to the point of being able to bring down Olympus, he is arrogant way beyond anything Annabeth is capable of and it should be a major character trait for a villain in a story pulling from Greek myth, this was the correct narrative choice
but more than that Luke is espousing social Darwinism an anti-social ideology of the 20th century which is updating him out of Greek myth in line with the setting and other similar changes Riordan made
but I actually think the PJO books could have been prescient if Riordan had leaned into the TLT characterization rather than away from it given the way the 2010s ended up shaping up
Luke can absolutely be interpreted as a radicalized and disaffected middle class young man inside the PJO universe
sure in the mortal world he ran away from home and is broke, but in PJO, he's the claimed son of an Olympic god and has that god's favor, he's good looking, an excellent swordsman, and has authority over the largest cabin as a camp counselor, he has it basically as good as you can get it at as a demigod at CHB had he not decided to not take his quest seriously
he's pissed off because he was entitled as he thought he deserved an entirely new quest and to do it perfectly and he couldn't take the hit to his ego when he didn't get that then he listened to the Greek myth equivalent of a retvrn podcast aka Kronos talking in his dreams
Luke could have been a compelling combination of the absolute worst of anti-social behavior out of Greek myth aka hubris and combined it with what was in the mid 2000s then to come anti-social trend of young men getting funneled into the alt-right of the 2010s and beyond, it's like right there with Luke's jock to preppy clothing style and everything
the only flaw with this is that PJO as a series is concerned with ending familial cycles of violence rather than getting into the political weeds of overthrowing the gods and isn't a good one to one of alt-right/fascists wanting to overthrow democracy in favor of dictatorship, but a family member descending into the alt-right is a real issue families have had to deal with so it's not as if the focus and themes of the series couldn't have been maintained by leaning into these aspects of Luke seen in TLT
so why didn't Riordan do that? Why did he retcon Luke into being more sympathetic and acting like he cared about demigods?
I can't say for sure, but I think he didn't want to have Percy kill a mortal character with his own hands instead of by bomb (or editors said he wasn't allowed) even though he'd already depicted Percy as willing to kill Gabe at 12
but also a little bit he wanted to tie it back to making life better for demigods leading into Percy asking for his gift for the gods as if killing an anti-social antagonist isn't enough for pro-social raise your kids better messaging
I think both are weak arguments compared to what could have been done if Luke wasn't retconned to be more sympathetic, I think the audience could be trusted to remember Percy had criticism about the gods' parenting without prompting from Luke
it also doesn't help that Percy is made to give Hermes a pass on his parenting of Luke right after all this in TLO because Hermes is supposed to be the good parent out of the gods I guess, but it kind of undercuts the overall criticism of the gods' parenting and even Luke's retcon into caring about other demigods and being a victim of Hermes' parenting to garner sympathy, like why have the parent of the antagonist in a series about bad parenting receive the least amount of criticism from the protagonist?
Basically, the argument on Luke should be what a massive missed opportunity he was and that weakening your antagonist like this to the point a section of the fanbase thinks your protagonist could have joined him at any point weakens any narrative and ideological differences between your protagonist and antagonist thereby weakening the overall themes of your narrative
killing off an anti-social antagonist will always be a stronger pro-social message than killing off a secretly pro-social or same ends different means one in a high stakes fantasy series like pjo
the people who find Luke sympathetic will continue to find Luke sympathetic, but it doesn't change there was a retcon that weakened him thematically as a character
I think you should reread Luke's monoligs, because the desire to change the world for demigods is in both the first and second books as well. It didn't focus on it, and it's obvious that Rick didn't figure out what he wanted from the series at the time, but the demigods theme didn't come out of nowhere.
Yes, it's a big stretch on Rick's part to try to dramatically shift the focus of attention, but at least it's a fact that it's always been there.
not only did I recently reread these books, hence why I even made this post, I'm also currently doing a canon divergent fic covering these books basically going through them line by line and I'm nearly done with SoM so this is all the stuff I've read most recently, and I double checked my evidence writing this post
the most Luke says in TLT about demigods in his monologue at the end is that they're heroic pawns of the gods unless you want to count them under humanity when he says humanity should be driven back into their caves except for the strongest who will serve Kronos
this is literally the social darwinism I described
so like yeah I guess you can call it changing the world for demigods, but not for the better, it's still social Darwinism and only two lines have anything to do with demigods/humanity out of his entire monologue boasting about his fall to the dark side and his failed plan and his grievances are personal not about demigods as a group
It's not a fact it was always there, it's a retcon
I do see what you mean, but I think Luke's general hate towards Western civilization as something clearly poisonous + comment about demigods being pawns is the foundation (not intentional) for that later theme.
But, yeah, I completely agree that this focus on social Darwinism, which Rick immediately trying to erase and never brings up again, except Luke's obvious dislike of mortals, is the retcon — Rick had no idea what he actually tried to do.
That might be what Riordan tried to pull something out of to make his retcon have some sort of sense, but Luke's hubris and personal grievance with Hermes takes up the focus of his monologue and even the heroic pawns line is arguably also in reference to Luke's denigration of the quest Hermes gave him which he seas as beneath him and the comment on Western civilization is basically an aside which isn't built upon, Luke's arrogance and anger are the foundation of his character in TLT
it also doesn't make sense to call those asides from Luke foundational to the overall theme critical of the gods' neglectful parenting of demigods when Percy's narration even in TLT is critical of the rich parents in Yancy, when he first sees cabin eleven and says the gods should be better, his own negative and critical reaction to Poseidon over the course of the book, it's there with Percy and as I said originally, Luke should have been the antithesis of this which he was in TLT
I think Riordan made an attempt at giving Luke a character arc away from his hubris over the course of the series which is fine and not what I have an issue with, Luke should face the consequences of his action and becoming fearful of Kronos is a reasonable and logical consequence for him
but even if the social darwinism doesn't come up so explicitly again, Luke is still shown behaving callously and using demigods for his or Kronos's ends up until TLO as I pointed out and at the end all he says about demigods is not to let it happen again which is really not that much
it's retconning the other four books of Luke's characterization to say that not letting it happen again to demigods was Luke's true motivation especially from the beginning as it was inserted last minute in TLO and contradicts what preceded it
Well, in my head, there's really no contradiction between Luke's callous and ruthless behavior towards his army and the fact that he spent his last breath asking for demigods at the same time… but yes, I get it.
Cause yes, it's obvious it wasn't Rick's original plan.
I don't know why everyone keep calling it's "redemption"? Where did he ever intend to redeem anything? He just didn't let Kronos to burn to dust the demigods that was near (shame on you for that, Luke, PJO could end before the future shit, but no).
I bet Luke didn't regret anything, except Kronos being big bitch.
I don't know why everyone keep calling it's "redemption"? Where did he ever intend to redeem anything? He just didn't let Kronos to burn to dust the demigods that was near (shame on you for that, Luke, PJO could end before the future shit, but no).
I bet Luke didn't regret anything, except Kronos being big bitch.
I don't believe Luke is a pedo. Luke has committed many crimes, like trafficking and attempted murder, but Luke is not a child pervert. Even if he liked Annabeth when he died, he would not be classified as a pedo. Luke met 7 year old Annabeth and claimed her as a daughter. But Rick worked overtime to give Luke dubious love interests.
First, involving Luke, a grown ass man, in a teenage love triangle was disgusting and unnecessary. Luke being Annabeth's big brother/father figure was enough. It's totally ok for a young girl to crush on an older guy, it happens, but having Percy say that Luke returned her feelings in Staff of Hermes was total character assassination. And Percy stans and Luke antis who take Percy's words as gospel refuse to see this as the character assassination it is. Instead using it as fuel to hate on Luke when there are many other in-character reasons to dislike this man. If it wasn't for Percy's brain dead claim in Staff of Hermes, the scene in TLO could have remained at least somewhat ambiguous. But this is just exhibit B of Percy playing a role in ruining Luke's character. Exhibit A being that joke of a scene between him and Hermes post battle.
But that's not even the worst of it. That could be attributed to the stupidity of PJO fandom. And the idiocy in PJO fandom is a serious competitor for the stupidity in HP fandom.
No, Rick could not leave it at Annabeth's puppy love crush. We also have Thalia, who was Luke's canonical love interest, remaining a teenager while Luke was in his 20s. Luke never made any romantic moves but it was obvious they liked each other, and Diary of Luke Castellan made that explicit. Imagine having a crush on your BFF who you believe was lost forever, and then when she comes back, she is no longer your age. Feelings can't be turned off like a switch. There was probably a part of Luke that still had romantic feelings, but Thalia is a minor, so how could he act on them?
So Rick has a girl 7 years Luke's junior pining for him. Then, his love interest is "de-aged", leaving him with no companions in his age range. How sad that a guy as canonically gorgeous as Luke, with several female characters crushing on him, has such an abysmal love life?? Every aspect of his life is cursed.
I don't believe Luke is a pedo. Luke has committed many crimes, like trafficking and attempted murder, but Luke is not a child pervert. Even if he liked Annabeth when he died, he would not be classified as a pedo. Luke met 7 year old Annabeth and claimed her as a daughter. But Rick worked overtime to give Luke dubious love interests.
First, involving Luke, a grown ass man, in a teenage love triangle was disgusting and unnecessary. Luke being Annabeth's big brother/father figure was enough. It's totally ok for a young girl to crush on an older guy, it happens, but having Percy say that Luke returned her feelings in Staff of Hermes was total character assassination. And Percy stans and Luke antis who take Percy's words as gospel refuse to see this as the character assassination it is. Instead using it as fuel to hate on Luke when there are many other in-character reasons to dislike this man. If it wasn't for Percy's brain dead claim in Staff of Hermes, the scene in TLO could have remained at least somewhat ambiguous. But this is just exhibit B of Percy playing a role in ruining Luke's character. Exhibit A being that joke of a scene between him and Hermes post battle.
But that's not even the worst of it. That could be attributed to the stupidity of PJO fandom. And the idiocy in PJO fandom is a serious competitor for the stupidity in HP fandom.
No, Rick could not leave it at Annabeth's puppy love crush. We also have Thalia, who was Luke's canonical love interest, remaining a teenager while Luke was in his 20s. Luke never made any romantic moves but it was obvious they liked each other, and Diary of Luke Castellan made that explicit. Imagine having a crush on your BFF who you believe was lost forever, and then when she comes back, she is no longer your age. Feelings can't be turned off like a switch. There was probably a part of Luke that still had romantic feelings, but Thalia is a minor, so how could he act on them?
So Rick has a girl 7 years Luke's junior pining for him. Then, his love interest is "de-aged", leaving him with no companions in his age range. How sad that a guy as canonically gorgeous as Luke, with several female characters crushing on him, has such an abysmal love life?? Every aspect of his life is cursed.
If I remember correctly, it has something to do with that phrase about caves and the best ones, which is mentioned once, because Rick has not figured out what to do with it, and at the maximum a social darwinism. And that's still just one phrase.
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