kind of embarrassing to play a game that your friend recommended it’s like. ohh i’m pregnant with your game. i’m playing and it’s yours
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@firyfox
kind of embarrassing to play a game that your friend recommended it’s like. ohh i’m pregnant with your game. i’m playing and it’s yours
"Vox acts like a white man from the 50s!" "Of course Vox did that, he's a white man from the 50s."
Genuine question, what do y'all think the 50s were like?
Because whenever I see these takes, or read fics with that tag, it always feels like a very modern perspective on the topic. People will pick apart a dozen little things Vox does or says as evidence of how bigoted he is, and bring up how he's from the 50s like it's the ultimate condemnation of his behavior. And sure, his time period is where he would have learned those attitudes, but like.
If you compare Vox's behavior in modern-day canon with actual 50s-level bigotry. And you assume he held opinions typical of his era while he was alive. He's um. He's pretty progressive.
Let's talk about it!
To start, racial segregation was still a thing in the 50s. The Civil Rights Movement started in the middle of the decade, but according to the Wiki, Vox died before that. So if he still had a 50s mindset, he would at best think it beneath him to work alongside, or even in proximity with, anyone from another race. The other end of the spectrum is racially motivated violence and murder. Given he was a literal serial killer, it's entirely possible that he was on that end of the spectrum, but given his motive for killing was personal advancement, it's also possible that he wouldn't have bothered. We have no evidence one way or the other.
In any event, Vox obviously does not require his partners (business or otherwise) to be white. He has not required it for at least a few decades, and he might not have ever required it, at least in Hell. Because the first guy he tried to partner with, whom he spent years getting close to and considered a friend, and even fell in love with, is Black Creole. And while it's possible he didn't know that, I'd argue that if race was a dealbreaker, he would have made a point of finding out. So he either didn't know and didn't care, or did know and didn't care.
Not caring isn't the same as not being racist, of course, and given his multiple transgressions in the present (both accidental and deliberate), he probably "didn't care" in the most offensive way possible. But he's spent decades working with Valentino, who's perfectly willing to scold and throw things at him when he crosses a line, and there's no way that partnership would have lasted if Vox refused to change. Given that he's had a lot of screentime and only been racist three times, he seems pretty teachable.
Still racist? Yes. 50s-era levels of racism? Not remotely.
So how about the misogyny, then? In the 50s, women pretty much couldn't do anything without their husbands' permission. Legally they could do things like open bank accounts and own property, but with no laws to prevent discrimination, men could simply refuse to do business with or employ women. Socially, women were expected to be passive, modest caregivers who put others before themselves. So as a man from the 50s, Vox presumably wants the women around him to be obedient doormats who cater to his every whim, yes?
Well, he and Velvette are introduced with her ordering him to come deal with his boyfriend. He does as asked without argument or reprimand, and while he's annoyed, it's not her fault and he doesn't take it out on her. He also never tells her how to do her job, or offers help she doesn't need, or even gives her unsolicited advice. She is his business partner, whom he chose to work with of his own volition, and he treats her as such.
He does expect obedience from Katie Killjoy (an employee, whose soul he probably owns), and as her boss, he also expects her to do her work to his liking. She also spends half their interaction sexually harassing him. And beyond his initial rejection, he never says a word to stop her, even though he clearly doesn't like it. He just kind of puts up with it.
Vox is by no means a pushover, but his social boundaries are. Not good.
Anyway, there is nothing 50s about the way he interacts with women.
Of course, no discussion about gender roles is complete without the other side of the coin. 50s men were expected to be restrained, self-reliant providers and protectors. Emotional displays (including anger, when in public) were considered weakness. Caregiving was unmanly. And now we're talking about Vox himself, so as a man from the 50s, he should be doing his damndest to live up to these ideals, right?
Let's see. He can be self-reliant, but he doesn't want to be, so cross that off the list. He can be emotionally reserved, but he usually shows his emotions in private, even if he doesn't act on them, and his public persona is more upbeat and energetic than stoic. So cross that off. He goes out of his way to make sure Valentino eats, and expresses concern about him not eating, which would fall under caregiving. Cross that off. The Vees all have jobs, which makes their income a collaborative effort, so he's not the sole provider for his family unit either.
The only box he really ticks, at least from the above list, is "protective". And given how quickly he reacts when the other Vees are threatened, I'm confident in saying he's protective because he is, not because it's expected of him. That's a score of... 1/5. So Vox does not particularly embody the 50s ideal of masculinity. In fact, by those standards, he is a complete and utter failure: weak, overly feminine, and frankly pathetic.
Hmmmm.
So! In conclusion:
"Vox acts like a white man from the 50s!"
Fucking HOW?
The recent fic recs have me thinking about Vox and Velvette's dynamic in canon vs fanon, and wondering why the fandom made the choices it made. And why it decided that their relationship is defined, specifically, by ageism and sexism. Against all canon evidence to the contrary.
Like, sure, S1 only had one episode where they interacted (plus a phone call and Velvette as a silent presence in the finale), so fans had to fill in most of their dynamic. But a lot of common fanon, especially for Velvette, is actively contradicted by S1. For example, her being annoyed by Vox and Valentino's relationship, when she literally spends the Vees' part of Finale recording the two dancing, then taking a selfie with them kissing behind her. She has never been shown to have an issue with them (or with displays of affection, which is another common Velvette portrayal that runs counter to S1).
The only piece of Velvette's fanon dynamic with Vox that makes sense when based exclusively on S1 is her being ageist towards him, because she is canonically (and aggressively) ageist. Except even this falls apart when you consider that she finds no fewer than nine ways to call Zestial and Carmilla old in the span of three minutes, but never once uses such language against Vox. Not in S1, not in S2. Not even when she's mad at him. If she cares about his age at all, she respects him too much to talk to him like that.
In fact, S1 just overall gives the appearance of an affectionate, mutually respectful relationship. Velvette clearly doesn't feel like she has to prove anything to Vox, because she has no problem calling him in to deal with Valentino, and Vox doesn't try to offer help she doesn't need. She rolls her eyes when he observes that she has everything under control in her studio, but she's smiling a little when she does it. And while Vox seems to be on edge about the Overlord meeting, given it sounds like he's checking on her when she arrives, he still trusted her to go in his place (between the importance of the meeting and the fact that it's the first time she's filled in for him, I'd argue some anxiety is understandable here). The call itself is casual and playful on Velvette's end.
And S2 builds on this dynamic of affection and respect. When they visit the hotel, Vox takes the lead conversationally, but he leaves Velvette to do her work as she sees fit. He knows she's good at her job and trusts her implicitly to get what they need. And of course, they're joking with each other and having fun the whole time. And in turn, Velvette doesn't take offense to it when Vox steps in to protect her, either at the hotel or when she and Val are attacked by Alastor. She can absolutely take care of herself, but she seems to know and accept that Vox is just Like That.
If sex/gender played any prominent role in their dynamic, they would not interact with each other the way they do. Vox would not be willing to let Velvette do her own thing with minimal interference while they're working on the same project. He would not be caught dead taking tea with her in a violently pink and purple room. He wouldn't tolerate the way she frequently talks to him like a female friend (frankly, if gender plays any role in their dynamic, it's in the way Velvette treats Vox, not the other way around. And he just lets her do it).
On that note, "fragile masculinity" needs to be put on a shelf until y'all learn what it actually is. Or until you can give me a clear example of Vox displaying masculine insecurity in a context unrelated to Alastor.
I'll wait.
In conclusion, the disparity between their canon relationship - even just in S1 - and the fandom interpretation is baffling. I can only assume that it's a result of real world biases against men and women, or people from different generations, being friends and having things in common. Because it has not let up, even six months after S2xE3 aired and gave us a damn good look at their relationship.
Also, it's a popular headcanon that Vox and Alastor can communicate through radio waves, and that it's unique to just the two of them. But no one ever talks about the fact that Vox and Velvette canonically have a seemingly unique method of communicating. So here. Magical video calls.
Pretty much this ..
guys im not dead! woohoo! some late valentines art bc I saw sm radiostatic art I was like "fuck I should make some"
this is like a fuckin mess tho so dont mind that... I hope everyone had a better valentines than I did! (I hate working sm)
radiostatic edition <3
... / 22 / 23 / ...
"At the bar..."
*coughs blood* youre all just jealous of my wound. yuore trying to make me get rid of it because you wish you had a wound this cool
I hope people realize he was deadnamed in this scene and this is likely around the time he first changed his name to Vox 🥹
And considering the fact that Alastor only referred to him as Vincent in this scene during the 'rejection' gives me the feeling that he doesn't LIKE the name Vincent anymore
Idk what I'm trying to say honestly, it's 5AM and I haven't slept yet but like - it just came to my mind because I see everyone refer to past Vox as "Vincent" (in that scene Alastor initially called him Vox as well)
THIS!!!! I tend to call him boxvox when I must but it felt obvious Alastor was using the name to weaponise the sense of intimacy/confidence and trust they had built, in public no less. He had been referred to as vox up til that moment and the fact he switches to rub it in and mock means that alastor knows Vox doesn't want to be known as that! Least of all where everyone can watch!! He built his new identity from the ground up!! It was never something Vox Wanted alastor to call him...
Either that Or Vox was ok with Al calling him that because they were close and now Al is using that closeness as a way to punctuate Vox's 'weakness' - like 'there are no friends in hell and you should've known that well enough to not get this trusting & comfortable'
Like I could either see it as Alastor basically deadnaming him & disrespecting vox by calling him something he knows he doesn't like - Or Alastor was allowed to casually call Vox that name bc he was special to vox and now he's throwing that back in vox's face (and either way I think it's also emphasizing Vox's humanity - what Alastor perceives as weak)
hey guys… h… hey guys…. look!!!!
Vincent strikes me as the type of guy to just pick up animals with all the self preservation skills of a sunfish
This is his enrichment
The recent fic recs have me thinking about Vox and Velvette's dynamic in canon vs fanon, and wondering why the fandom made the choices it made. And why it decided that their relationship is defined, specifically, by ageism and sexism. Against all canon evidence to the contrary.
Like, sure, S1 only had one episode where they interacted (plus a phone call and Velvette as a silent presence in the finale), so fans had to fill in most of their dynamic. But a lot of common fanon, especially for Velvette, is actively contradicted by S1. For example, her being annoyed by Vox and Valentino's relationship, when she literally spends the Vees' part of Finale recording the two dancing, then taking a selfie with them kissing behind her. She has never been shown to have an issue with them (or with displays of affection, which is another common Velvette portrayal that runs counter to S1).
The only piece of Velvette's fanon dynamic with Vox that makes sense when based exclusively on S1 is her being ageist towards him, because she is canonically (and aggressively) ageist. Except even this falls apart when you consider that she finds no fewer than nine ways to call Zestial and Carmilla old in the span of three minutes, but never once uses such language against Vox. Not in S1, not in S2. Not even when she's mad at him. If she cares about his age at all, she respects him too much to talk to him like that.
In fact, S1 just overall gives the appearance of an affectionate, mutually respectful relationship. Velvette clearly doesn't feel like she has to prove anything to Vox, because she has no problem calling him in to deal with Valentino, and Vox doesn't try to offer help she doesn't need. She rolls her eyes when he observes that she has everything under control in her studio, but she's smiling a little when she does it. And while Vox seems to be on edge about the Overlord meeting, given it sounds like he's checking on her when she arrives, he still trusted her to go in his place (between the importance of the meeting and the fact that it's the first time she's filled in for him, I'd argue some anxiety is understandable here). The call itself is casual and playful on Velvette's end.
And S2 builds on this dynamic of affection and respect. When they visit the hotel, Vox takes the lead conversationally, but he leaves Velvette to do her work as she sees fit. He knows she's good at her job and trusts her implicitly to get what they need. And of course, they're joking with each other and having fun the whole time. And in turn, Velvette doesn't take offense to it when Vox steps in to protect her, either at the hotel or when she and Val are attacked by Alastor. She can absolutely take care of herself, but she seems to know and accept that Vox is just Like That.
If sex/gender played any prominent role in their dynamic, they would not interact with each other the way they do. Vox would not be willing to let Velvette do her own thing with minimal interference while they're working on the same project. He would not be caught dead taking tea with her in a violently pink and purple room. He wouldn't tolerate the way she frequently talks to him like a female friend (frankly, if gender plays any role in their dynamic, it's in the way Velvette treats Vox, not the other way around. And he just lets her do it).
On that note, "fragile masculinity" needs to be put on a shelf until y'all learn what it actually is. Or until you can give me a clear example of Vox displaying masculine insecurity in a context unrelated to Alastor.
I'll wait.
In conclusion, the disparity between their canon relationship - even just in S1 - and the fandom interpretation is baffling. I can only assume that it's a result of real world biases against men and women, or people from different generations, being friends and having things in common. Because it has not let up, even six months after S2xE3 aired and gave us a damn good look at their relationship.
Also, it's a popular headcanon that Vox and Alastor can communicate through radio waves, and that it's unique to just the two of them. But no one ever talks about the fact that Vox and Velvette canonically have a seemingly unique method of communicating. So here. Magical video calls.
Ok but can we talk about “no more playin’ house” for a second. So you admit that you’re acting as a family unit. So you admit that it’s not just a business relationship with either velvette or val. Like yes he’s trying to demean the connection in this line by calling it “playing house” as if its all been a lie for him but even just the metaphor he used is so revealing. Yeah sure pal i believe you dont give a shit as you gesture to your wall of family photos and basically admit youre already a married couple with your “business partner” of 50 years. SURE bud whatever you say
Alastor projects his frustrations out on others
Something I don't see mentioned often, is that Alastor straight up mocks people for things he's not happy with about himself
Alastor fusses with Husks ears because he knows Husk hates it when he does. And what do we now know? Alastor also hates when the person Holding his leash does the same to him.
And speaking of Alastor treating Husk like Rosie treats him
Alastor 100% projects his treatment onto Husk. He feels powerless against Rosie, but he does have Power over Husk. It's like a cycle of generational trauma
But it's not just how Rosie treats him that Alastor imitates with others
((This is going to be another long one, so please keep reading what's under the read more tag to see more parallels))
(reposting this part of my favourite ships post cause amir said alastor cried after the breakup)
I like to imagine Alastor being cursed to forever deny himself the opportunity to ask for what he wants. He is too proud, and his needs are too particular; he does not trust anyone with his heart. He lies awake at night brooding about how he hurts everyone who offers him softness. He is secretly torn up about it, but what they have to give just isn't enough, and it would be more unfair to burden them with his actual needs. Only he knows how truly delicate he is, and how easily he is overwhelmed and stressed out when people cross his boundaries. He is so sensitive, so easy to upset and offend, that he's terrified of the pain even attempting an emotionally intimate relationship would bring. Every touch feels like manipulation for more, every compliment hurts. He can't do it. There isn't a soul who could meet him where he's at. He doesn't even know where he is.
Post-Season 2
I’m seeing ppl talk about Vox vs Alastor in regards to control and their attitude towards Hell on my dash and esp given the fic I’m working on where they interact post S2: A BITCH HAS THOUGHTTTSS
The thing that got my gears turning was going back to Vox’s introductory scene. I was so tickled that he says “how are you this Hellish morning?”. My Monster-High-raised heart could not be still, but it made me think… like, isn’t it interesting that he leans into being a demon so enthusiastically. And when Alastor insults him for being fake and manipulative or whatever, “yeah, I try hehe :)” is the response.
In life, Vox felt pushed into being a serial killing maniac if he wanted to achieve his goals. It was the natural order of things. He is and was a shark, and it’s simply by evolution and survival of the fittest that he is the person that he is. So, yeah, he has his adorable traits, he’s kindred with Shok.wav in having this energetic, passionate, loyal, golden retriever side. But also, by nature, he sees himself as a killer and so does everybody else.
He belongs in Hell, an eternal, ever-evolving being with all these high-tech gizmos and wonderful friends that call to him but he likely would’ve missed in life because, without the satanic supernatural, time would’ve divided them. That’s who he thinks he is, it’s the wish granted by the hellish powers that be, and so he feels he has to put a lid on his “monstrous” parts to move through society with ambitious focus. But those parts are HIM.
Vox’s desire for control is about how people receive him, not what’s going on, or who he is. He’s fine with drama and likes to let loose: look at the company he keeps. See how flippant he is about announcing anti-angel security when it doesn’t exist, just so people see his capitalism as a good thing, rather than an evil of debatable neccesity?
Mind, Vox isn’t suggested to be motivated by money out of a feelings of scarcity or because there’s some particular happiness he is hoping to buy. In life, he pursued stardom and influence. It’s in Hell that he’s a CEO, and because humans live in a capitalist hellscape, he has capitalist instincts. Just as the shark’s instinct to attack is a product of its environment. And Vox loves sharks, down to every last tooth, it’s just that he NEEDS everyone else to see it his way to soothe that insecurity he was set up to have about it.
Alastor, on the other hand, feels he very much made his choices. He got his radio show by being superior, so superior that even Jim Crow couldn’t stop him. He was a fucking socialite, cause he has taste, he kills it on the keys, people care about what he has to say, not because of who is saying it, but because he has actively cultivated his person to be perfectly on point. As I’ve seen others say, he came out the other side of war, and Al is all good. No, fuck, no you are not going to be spilling wine on his fly ass suit, and overlook him or call him some slur. The environment has no bearing on motherfucking Alastor. If anyone was under the impression that being a man of colour in 1920s Louisiana meant white people could treat him any which way and a racist mob was gonna cut him down for his defiance, Alastor was going to literally eat them for breakfast.
Alastor is the kind of person that would fight until the very end. He would even cheat the world, going as far as to consult the occult to make sure in the afterlife, he will never be subject to the full horrors of his environment. Where Vox embraces the world of sin that created him and feels so at home in Hell, Alastor, before he even got there, was uncomfortable with being a common sinner. He’s above it, and if not for society’s bullshit, he would just be a chill guy with a killer taste, rather than being a killer at all. Alastor is bigger than the programme.
Alastor is not trying to prove his greatness to anyone, definitely not a faceless audience; his quarrel is with destiny itself. He needs control of the entire situation to feel secure in his free-will. That’s why Lucifer and Adam are people he gives the time of day, despite them really not giving a shit about him (like Vox); they had chance on their side that gave them this great authority and ability to do whatever the they please, whether it’s fuck around with bathtub ducks for a lifetime or literal fucking genocide.
And you know what Alastor wants? All he wants is to “continue his fun”. The world he was born into would have it criminalised that someone like him could have REAL self-determination and take pleasure in life. Alastor rejects that every step of the way. Unlike Vox, he clings to the old, because he had fought tooth and nail for the path he went down in life. Those were his glory days cut short by… an accident. By fucking chance?!
Alastor is a deer. He is a herbivore and deer in particular are a paragon of being docile prey. Alastor knows what he is, and he actively bucks against it (heh). Even if it’s not his nature, he will go to any cruel length just to know that he has control over his life, despite everyone constantly trying to deny him that freedom. He’ll put on the greatest show of being fearsome, to the point that nobody even knows who he really is, probably not even himself. People cower at his superiority of might, and if he had it his way, they’d feel the same about his taste, but he’s a man out of time and unwilling to change.
And for all Alastor (and the rest of the world… rip loverboy Vox, walk it off, mate) is losing by pursuing that much control over the world, that’s the level he needs to feel sane.
Hey, so Vox is a fish, by nature, even as a human (the pins), and it's precisely his calling to the water, paired with his put-on pursuit of what the world wants to see – technological connections via TV – that results in his death by electrocution. Because the water conducts the electricity (otherwise he would've just got conked like a toon hahaha).
Being an electrical demon is his punishment. And being in a world with no ocean is his punishment.
His natural, 'good' self is at home in the water.