ZAZU INTERVIEWS: NERINA PALLOT
If being famous was based solely on talent, Nerina Pallot would be a global household name by now. At one point, around a decade ago, when she was nominated for a BRIT Award and an Ivor Novello in the same year for her song "Sophia", it looked like that might have been about to happen.
It was a world-class song, and since then, though her following has become more cult than mass, she has released four more albums of world-class songs - the sort you imagine would have fit-in much better in the eras that gave us Kate Bush and Joni Mitchell.
Robert O'Connor caught-up with the singer/songwriter about her latest record, 'Stay Lucky', why she'd rather starve than have to co-write more hits for pop stars, and what she really thinks about disgraced film producer Harvey Weinstein.
Nerina, first of all thank you for taking the time to talk with us. Weâre big fans of yours going all the way back to âFiresâ â which by the way we canât believe was 12 years ago! We all know how tough it is to last this long in the music industry â how do you think youâve managed to stick around long enough to be now releasing your 5th album?
You know whatâs scary? Stay Lucky is actually my 6TH album! And if you count up the Year of EPs and include them, itâs more like 11 albums. I donât have an answer. Or maybe itâs that even though I have my own label and am signed to a publisher, I make a conscious effort to stay out of the industry. Iâm quite sensitive (actually, no, Iâm really bloody sensitive) and if I engaged too much with the bullshit of the industry Iâd go bananas. It has absolutely nothing to do with music. Nothing to do with my motivations for making music. Iâd make music whether it was a good living or bad. If Iâve had commercial moments and a few of the songs Iâve written have been lucrative itâs been entirely accidental - whereas the industry is all about monetising. I think Iâll stick around for as long as Iâm emotional because music is my only real outlet so I donât have a choice about making music or not, if that makes sense.
The music industry has changed drastically during your time as an artist â do you feel like the internet has helped or hindered you as an artist when you consider how people consume music nowadays with streaming etc.
Thatâs a really good question. The positives for me are that I can reach and maintain my fanbase relatively inexpensively through the socials. So keeping people up to speed about what Iâm doing is a lot easier than it might have been ten, twenty years ago. It also allows me to engage in the way that suits me, because I do like chatting to people, and I do like sharing other bits and bobs about my life - within reason. Maybe I should have cultivated a more aloof persona - I know I was urged to do that by one of my old mangers - but that never felt right to me, and the internet suits my personality. The negatives are obvious - downloading and streaming has made music cheaper (from a consumer point of view I bloody love that and listen to loads of things because I can just stream them) but that means that itâs hard to make decent money because streaming pays so appallingly. I also think that because so much music is now available, you just have so much to plough through. And nobody knows who the gatekeepers are anymore because places like Spotify are very cagey about how they make their playlist choices and you canât plug them the way you can plug radio producers. I have absolutely no idea how I got on some of the bigger streaming playlists I have been on - it was sheer pot luck. Also, far from democratising music, if you look at the streaming charts they are more or less entirely comprised of artists on major labels. Itâs never been harder for the Indies to get a look in.
Youâve always sort of genre-hopped, and thatâs whatâs kept it interesting as a fan â has that always been a natural progression for you, or were you pressured in the past by labels to go in a certain direction as artists often are?
Thatâs a great question. I think itâs a bit of both. Iâve genre hopped because I am into so many different kinds of music, and always want to try things I havenât done before. But yes, label pressure has had something to do with it. The most profound influence was probably when I got dropped by Polydor because my first record hadnât worked and I knew in order to keep going I had to hit pay dirt. So I made the conscious decision to make at least one radio single on Fires because I wanted to have enough commercial success to keep making records. Because it worked on the second album, I went into overdrive on my third album, trying to chase another hit, and my heart wasnât in it so it didnât work. But the pressure always came from myself, if Iâm honest.
Thereâs quite a jazzy vibe on some of the tracks on the new record, such as the gorgeous âThe Heart is a Lonely Hunterâ. Was this the plan from the outset with this project, genre-wise?
No! I started off programming a lot of stuff on my own and was initially thinking Iâd make an electronic album. But then I got cross with myself because I was being so premeditated and the music felt sterile and too thought out, and at odds with how I was actually feeling. If Iâm honest, I got into the music business because of a very respected jazz musician who I started to write with when I was still a university, and it was through him and his brother I got my first record deal. The weird thing is that itâs taken me sixteen years to make a record that sounds like who I actually am, musically. So it was a relief to âgive myself permissionâ to make the record Iâd always wanted to make deep down.
'Stay Lucky' looks on course to enter the Top 30 this weekend in the UK. Do you feel like, since youâre an artist without the massive marketing budget of the Adeleâs and Ed Sheeranâs of the world, thatâs a testament to the strength and loyalty of your fanbase? It sort of seems like theyâre on this journey with you, and as long as you make albums, theyâll be there to buy themâŚ
I think it will be a miracle if we get in the Top 40 to be honest! But to even be in the game when the midweeks came out is absolutely a testament to my fanbase, because my sales are largely physical. Which means there are all these amazing people prepared to put their money where their mouth is and support me in that way. Itâs very humbling actually, and is definitely a huge comfort to me when Iâm going about my business. I think the connection between me and my fans is special, and I think itâs because it is quite cultish. Iâm not convinced it would be that strong if I had been more commercially successful, and I would hate to have that dislocation between us.
We were obsessed with your Year of EPs project that you did a couple years ago â and now EPs are becoming the new normal for lots of artists. What was it like working at that rate versus the normal âsingle-album-singleâ approach that weâre so used to?
The recording process was pretty easy - Iâve always enjoyed performing live and am pretty solid, so that process wasnât an issue. The writing enough good songs a month? That was very bloody hard!!! I think I wrote about 8 songs a month for the 5 that got released, because I was determined not to release any old rubbish. Honestly, when artists take a long time making albums, I think itâs because the writing is what is taking up the time. And it should. The song should always be the most important thing. And the funny thing is, when the songs are well written enough and the melodies flow and the lyrics have good imagery, the recording kind of takes care of itself. Itâs when there are holes in the writing that the production process becomes arduous.
Youâve written for other popstars, Kylie for instance. What was that like as a process and would you consider doing more of it? Siaâs certainly managed to do well out of diluting her recipe and selling it to A-list non-writing pop stars!
No, my writing for hire days are well and truly over. I lucked out with Kylie and she very graciously took songs I had written for her, rather than with her. The thought of sitting in a room with another human with the express purpose of writing a song to make money makes my blood run cold. Iâd rather starve.
Your recent single âMan Didnât Walk On The Moonâ is just sublime. It feels almost from another time, sitting comfortably alongside the likes of Fleetwood Mac. When youâre writing new songs, do you find yourself inspired by other acts from the past or present, because truly thereâs no-one else out there doing what youâre doing at the moment!
Wow. Thank you! You know whatâs funny is that everyone says Fleetwood Mac when they hear Man Didnât⌠but I honestly, honestly didnât listen to a note of Fleetwood Mac while I was writing or recording the album. Maybe they are somewhere in my musical DNA and popped up to say hello, but it wasnât a conscious effort. But I think because I allowed myself to make the album my heart so desperately wanted to make, all my real, longest lasting musical influences surfaced - like Carole King, Joni Mitchell, Steely Dan etc. Those are the records that I still put on time and time again and outlast the latest new album that captures my imagination for about a week.
Markus Feehily provided backing vocals on a couple tracks on âStay Luckyâ. How did that come about?
I worked with Markus a few years ago and was floored by his voice. I had no idea what a gifted singer he is. And after that I had it in the back of my mind that when I made the right kind of thing, his voice would be amazing singing with me. He was so supportive too while I was making the album, because I was scared - you know, I was aware I was kind of committing commercial suicide, but he (and everyone else who worked on it) were genuinely getting into the music in a way I hadnât experienced while making a record before and that was such a comfort.
Your song âReal Late Starterâ was covered by X Factor winner Joe McElderry a few years back. How did you feel about that, and how do you feel about those types of shows in 2017?
I was flattered but also quite confused because the song is about being a loser and Joe had just won something. I think those shows need to go away for a bit because the public are bored now and itâs not the greatest vehicle to set up sometimes truly talented people (Kelly Clarkson, for example) in the right way.I think itâs starting to ruin peopleâs futures before theyâve even really begun. And what was the last truly great song that came out of it?
Your song âIf I Had A Girlâ on the last album was kind of a feminist anthem, so weâve gotta ask about the recent news in Hollywood about Harvey Weinstein and all of those allegations. Do you feel like thereâs similar situations happening to women working in the music industry?
Me too, me too, me too. Itâs not just women though - I know of some young gay men who have been victim of some predatory men in both the film and music industry. Itâs worth mentioning that because I think theyâre even less likely to speak up. Just look at the way women are marketed in general, and the way that we are marketed to. Iâm so heartened to see so many women speaking up (although itâs kind of horrifying how many of us there are), but this is genuinely the most positive Iâve felt about women being treated equally in a long time. Itâs awful that itâs taken something as monstrous as Weinstein (who Iâve met by the way, and he radiated sleaze I have to say) but a change is happening. I would like to make the point though that I have never ever encountered misogyny in my day to day creative workplace - the male musicians and engineers Iâve worked with have always treated me as an equal and have never thought I wasnât as capable as them because I have a vagina.
Letâs talk about getting you to Ireland â can your fans here expect to see you live in Dublin during the course of this album cycle at all?
I live in hope. Itâs been quite a while since I played in Dublin, but if I can come over next year when I plan on touring more extensively, I definitely will. Tell your friends, and if enough people want to see me, I shall be there!
Finally, is there anything left on your musical bucket-list? A producer youâd like to work with or a goal you dream about achieving, etc?
I just want to keep making records that move people. Thatâs it. I might hop about styles or moods but my main aim is always to connect. Everything else is just gravy.
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