In regards to the on going, never fucking ending Dean is VS Dean isn’t abusive argument.
(This first part after the cut was written previously so if you’ve read it, bear with)
I know this fandom isn’t known for conversation when it comes to issues like this, it’s so much easier to shame and shun people who think differently isn’t it, but this crap has gone on way too long and gone well outside the realm of actual argument at hand.
Verbal, physical, sexual, it’s all abuse. Your reaction to seeing those things happen depends on your experiences. If you have never been a victim of abuse, had a family member or friend be a victim, or grew up in a house with constant abuse, you are lucky, but it doesn’t make certain things not abuse. Making light of abuse or trying to invalidate certain forms of abuse in favor of others is what keeps battered men and women with abusive partners, keeps courts from prosecuting to the fullest extent deserved, it puts us all in danger. It worries me to no end to see such flippant attitudes from fandom because it’s fiction, when I know for a fact that this fiction is real enough to have an impact on 99% of us. Instead of attacking each other from high horses, why can’t we talk about it? Because while these people are fake, there are a plethora of abusive people out there and fandom shapes the way we see and think about real things more than we realize.
#Sam caved and said yes in this timeline #for some reason Lucifer was better than the alternative-#Easy to see why when the alternative was alone #Because Dean abandoned him in this timeline remember #Just like Michael did to Lucifer #And so here I think we get both #Sam and Lucifer are reaching out to their older brother #one literally one symbolically #And he’s still turning away from them #only now it’s because Sam fell isn’t it #Because he was so alone without his brother he let the devil under his skin#There’s a nod #of not being surprised somehow #Sam/Lucifer isn’t surprised any more about being rejected #no wonder he wins #No wonder Sam doesn’t rest back control from Lucifer like he does in Swan Song to stop him killing Dean #look what happens when you leave Sam alone Dean #Lucifer’s mirror just becomes him
Physically can not laugh and cry any harder, because Dean makes one decision based on his own feelings for once, after being majorly fucked over by his brother-one which he regrets and is made to feel bad for IN show, by the show, despite it being absolutely understandable,so he runs back and sacrifices all of himself all over again (because, lol who cares about DEAN? Especially not Dean!)-and he is STILL not good enough for anyone.
Sam’s undeniable darkness and inability to keep humanity on his own, is not Dean’s fault nor responsibility. He has spent his entire life giving every bit of himself to that kid, that man at the time, and still he pulls away like a petulant child. Dean already blames himself, so much so after The End that he goes right back in. What should he have done differently? Not laughed with Cas that one day? Not had emotions in the first place that got in the way of him taking care of a grown man? How dare he feel!
This is exactly the bullshit mentality that shows are supposed to deter the main characters from. Dean already blames himself enough and thinks the universe is continually forcing him back into the situation and punishing him for caring about himself. But this one, and the fandom at large, continues to enable it, at the expense of the character’s well being (physically, mentally, and emotionally), even though the character he’s taking care of doesn’t even want that. Because he’s nothing if not Sam’s keeper, right?
basically i'm of the opinion that you do not truly love a character unless you admit to and accept their flaws
because if you don’t, then you do not love that character, you love your own personal idea of that character
sometimes characters act like people (even if they’re not human) and they fuck up and there’s no good reason for it. or there is, but it’s actually just not good enough
excusing that behavior is undermining the character you claim to love and not giving him/her enough credit, especially because you’re leaving that character no room to grow if you can excuse away all errors
so stop, take a moment, sit back and realize that it’s okay if you stare at your favorite character once and awhile, shake your head and go, “Oh, honey, no.”
angelicembraces replied to your post: angelicembraces replied to your post: I find...
we were forced to see so much crap the past two years..i feel sick just at the idea and seeing what it do to the fandom…:’( i am hopeful carver will redeem the show..
I don't know if it's now we have no common enemy or what, but the fandom, even our fraction, is so severely splintered. Maybe it's just people showing their true, elitist colors by pitting one opinion above all the rest. I'm just glad I have a few people who I know share my opinion and I can enjoy the show with if it DOES get as good as it looks like it'll get.
angelicembraces replied to your post: I find it kind of funny people still get butthurt...
“no one had his hands clean at the end of the season.” quoting jeremy carver..thanks god i say, and let’s hope he will save this show and the characters…
ABSOLUTELY! I think the people with their head it he clouds are in for a rude awakening.
I find it kind of funny people still get butthurt as fuck over the fact that Dean is abusive.
Because he is.
And no way you want to somehow shoehorn certain things and only certain things into that category (when I KNOW what verbal abuse is and does) or say that Cas is an angel so,(when there is no doubt he FELT the brunt of the bullshit laid on him by Dean, whether he's stronger and took more than human could) will ever convince me otherwise.
Saying 'Dean isn't innocent' and leaving it at that is absolutely not covering it. It's sugar coating a HUGE character flaw, and gaping wound left by his experiences. And that's just it, his experiences, they weren't, will not, ever, ever, ever be okay, and they have shaped him into the person he is. But he's also a conscious, loving, emotional, caring, brilliant man who, through all of his self-loathing, has learned FROM the way his Dad treated him, rather than being a product of it. He knows right and wrong.
(Although, I'm arguing 90% s6-7 here and what a fucking minefield of bullshit and plot holes that is, and I don't think most of that Dean did was in character but unfortunately it's canon)
I say Dean is abusive and I don't hate him, I sympathize with him more than any character maybe ever, because I know he's better than that. I know he would want to be held accountable for his bullshit moves, especially against the very few people he considers family. Your past doesn't excuse you. It might explain it, but it is no reason for hurting someone. But he knows enough to be able to learn from these things, because he is a good man, and change it.
Given our new showrunner, I don't see him being a stagnant suicide risk anymore. He's actually going to have a chance to learn something. He won't simply get over his problems in one good cry or smash of a car or when it's CONVENIENT to story. Fuck, you want to talk about favorites, I could go on for weeks about how Dean is fucked over in series, but then that's ~character hate on someone else(my plethora of Sam ideas, feels, etc are kept mostly private because if there's anyone you can't talk about unless it's wobbifying, it's Sam). Dean will see things differently and maybe he won't be that dickhead anymore, although being a dick is just a little bit of Dean's personality, but he's not some buffoon who smashes through people and doesn't realize what he's done. That's the beauty of Dean, he's absolutely more than you see on the surface and I don't think anyone coddling him gives him enough credit.
So in the beginning of the episode, Sam has hope. He's trying to find a way as per most of the season. Dean is, as usual, ignoring the inevitable and ignoring his feelings. He has no hope, when has he EVER?
And, then, DEAN thinks he has a way and Sam completely ignores and stomps on that hope. He also pretty much pisses in the face of what Dean did for him by refusing to even take it into account. (And that's not even mentioning the obvious effect that hearing from 'John' has had on Dean that Sam scoffs at.)
Sam can go kill a crossroads demon and trust Ruby without question, but Dean thinks he has a way, an exorcism that may or may not work (as killing the demon may or may not work or trusting Ruby may or may not have been a good idea. But they didn't have any other option, just like this incident), and he's being completely irrational oh gosh golly gee. Sam won't even believe the proof of fucking electrical storms that the/a demon could be following them.
Skip the end of the episode, when Dean has been proven wrong(and yes, wrong but his hope was HOPE), wait, what's this "It's okay to have hope?" Really, Sam? When you're right?
What I'm seeing is a writer, Carver, showing a side of Sam that is usually glossed over. The part that can't support, the part that is, in fact, a fucking dickhead(and, before I get hanged, all of the characters are dickheads, it's a personality trait on this show) to Dean's emotional supporter, unlike the original formula. And then having to correct it in the end so that the show can continue on the same easy train where every character has a good and bad side and no easy button, except one(But those are other thoughts for another day)
dean: *thinks back to how he was raised by his father who saw him as nothing but a soldier, and how much he misses his mom who he still loves so much it hurts, and how he had to raise sammy basically on his own, and then have to watch him go dark side and suffer from addiction, and how he endured 40 years in hell being tortured and torturing others, and how he has had the weight of the world on his shoulders for as long as he can remember.*
dean: i'm fine, we should focus on saving the world and the others, don't worry about me.
fandom: see dean's fine, he doesn't have any problems besides being a dick.
Sometimes I get sad because I remember that Sam and Cas are both card carrying members of the ‘Dean told me not to do something but I did it anyway and broke the world’ club.
Castiel's breaking of the world was an unfortunate side effect of him actually saving the world. One that could've been avoided, he is not the only one to blame. If he had listened to Dean, the world would've been fucked by Raphael, instead of leviathan.
Sam's breaking of the world was a side effect of his own arrogance not realizing something was up with trusting a demon. One that could not have been avoided because it was fate, Dean had already started the seals ball rolling and it was always going to end with Sam killing Lilith. If he had listened to Dean, the world would be in eternal turmoil as Lilith roasted it on her own, unleashing more and more seals because there would be no one to kill her. Dean wasn't right either time, really.
And there is a huge difference in these two situations and the fault there lies with Dean.
People assume blame is a one size fits all deal, but really-from a non-biased, non-fangirl viewpoint-it's more like a big ball of circumstancy-wircumstancy, faulty-waulty, everybody is fucked...stuff.
I don't really know how/what to say, or think anyone will care who I don't regularly talk to, but I'm taking a break from tumblr, or really fandom in general.
Tumblr, at one point earlier this year when I was also having a hard time, was the only good thing in my life. Now I just, I went through 21 pages of my dash today and was more upset when I was done that I'd been before. Everything is so screwed up that the things I couldn't care about (namely that dumbass wolf show people praise like it's a masterpiece acting as a mouthpiece for what's wrong in TV, when wow, gay baiting) and just everything in the supernatural fandom (namely the fact that any opinion that doesn't match any number of precious BNFs gets you lynched and I don't see anyone thinking anymore, if it's not a 2 sentence post that starts with LULZ and ends with butt sex it's not of import) both end up just making it worse, because if I'm trying not to think about bullshit, these things don't help.
I can't enjoy anything. My mental and physical health are in the toilet and I can't seem to find a space to care. And I hate admitting this because it's a weakness, and basically if you're talking about it, it's real.
But, whatever.
If I post something I made or wrote, it's a quick post and I'm not technically here. If you want to talk to me I'll still get the alert emails about a message, so I'll reply if need be.
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