This really is my last post on this matter. Unless I find out some new information. I know you all are probably tired of these, but I just really need to vent. I always leave things out in my other posts, but this time I’m gonna try my best not to leave anything out. Just warning you this is going to be really long, might contain some spoilers, and is probably unorganized. The choice is yours whether you read it or not. If you disagree that’s fine, just please be respectful. If you agree, please let me know. :)
So first, I’m pretty irritated at the people who still say Jerome’s not the Joker. I mean how much more proof do some of you need? Both Cameron and Danny have already confirmed Jerome is the Joker, plus all the clues point to him. He was officially called Joker in Jerome’s rebirth promo, plus Danny was talking about Jerome at comic con and called him the Joker. Also, Jerome has way too many similarities with all the versions of Joker (especially Ledger, Leto, and Nicholson) Plus not to mention that you can spell ‘Joker’ with Jerome’s full name (Jerome Valeska). I just don’t understand how people can still say that he isn’t, even after all the hints, and even confirmations. Not to mention the Joker card was in the episode where Jerome was resurrected. So anyway, to those wondering or doubting, he is indeed Joker (thank God). Just wanted to get that out there.
(There’s a lot more, but I’m just gonna stick with these)
Anyway, my second biggest issue is how people are saying Lee can’t be Harley. I just want to point out that Gotham is an entirely different universe, and anything is possible.They stay true to the characters, but they make it their own to make it more interesting. Like for example; no one is supposed to know Joker’s real name or his past, but we know a little about Jerome’s past, such the fact that he grew up in a circus, with an absent father and a mother that abused him. Plus we know his real name. So it is very possible for Lee to become Harley. Anyway, the two main reasons people think that she 'can’t become Harley’ is because she’s already an important character in the comics, and shes’s too old for Jerome. I understand she’s her own character in the comics, but this version of Lee doesn’t really match the comic book versions. First of all Lee in the comics is supposed to help Alfred raise Bruce, and be a mother-like figure to him. This Lee was basically just made to be Jim’s on and off love interest (so far). She’s only met Bruce a few times, and she’s never mentioned that she knew Thomas and Martha. Also, Lee in the comics is supposed to be way older, whereas this Lee isn’t that old. She said she was around the same age as Grace Fairchild (One of the ogre’s victims).. so I would say she’s in her mid or late twenties.
Now the second reason, is people say she is too old for Jerome. I’m gonna take a wild guess here and say Jerome doesn’t care about age. I mean he has come onto both Barbara and Lee. Both ladies are older than him, not to mention he’s the one that flirted with them first. I really think he may have mommy issues. Like some girls grow up with either an absent father or a bad father, so they end up having daddy issues. I believe it’s the same case for Jerome considering he didn’t get the love and affection from his mother that a child should. He’s flirted with Barbara and called her gorgeous, and he’s flirted with Lee, called her pretty, and asked her if they ever had sex. So he’s obviously attracted to them. And I believe they’re attracted to him as well. Barbara acted disinterested, but there was moments where she would flirt back. Like she would laugh at his jokes, and she even said 'the kid had a way about him.’ Then, to me, Lee has seemed interested from day one. She watched him in the interrogation room and had a slight smirk (the corners of her mouth were lifted slightly), then after the interrogation was over she was still thinking about it and even said 'it was ugly but thrilling.’
This was her still thinking about what happened.
Then when he came back alive and took her hostage you could really tell. At first glance, she did seem disinterested I admit. But when you watch it again, and you pay close attention to the way they look at each other, watch their body language and etc, you can tell they feel something. Whether it be lust, fascination, desire, etc. Of course she was gonna act all hard and tough, I mean he’s a psychotic criminal and she was probably ashamed for her feelings (both because he’s crazy and younger than her), but you see moments where it looks like she lets her guard down and she’s close to giving in. I know he liked both of them, but I think he feels more of a connection with Lee though. Don’t get me wrong, he and Barbara seemed to have chemistry too, but I think he has a soft spot for Lee. I noticed Jerome used to get annoyed with Barbara a lot. Like he would roll his eyes at her and shake his head and you could just tell she annoyed him. One of those times was when she punched Lee at the gala. And I know that’s how Joker is with Harley, but I still think he has more of a connection with Lee. With Lee, he seems kind of protective over her in his own way. He has both saved and spared her life. In 'The Last Laugh’ he saved her from being stabbed by Barbara. Then in 'Smile Like You Mean It’ and 'The Gentle Art of Making Enemies’ she’s the only one he didn’t try to hurt or anything. In 'Smile Like You Mean It’ he killed two cops, and Dwight. Then in 'The Gentle Art of Making Enemies’ he went after Bruce and was gonna kill Alfred too. Then he made his own torture circus, where he and his cult tortured many innocent people. He dropped that guy into the piranha tank, and he stabbed the clown that was doing Bruce’s makeup. He even shot someone from his own cult just because he was cheering for him too loud. All he did to Lee was hold her hostage, and then tied her hands to the examination table. He didn’t hurt, or kill her. And believe me, he had plenty of motive.. considering Jim is the one that put him in Arkham in the first place. He knows how much Lee meant to Jim, and he knew it would have been the best way to hurt him.. but all he did was tie her up, and gag her. And a lot of people say that he only spared her life for the sake of keeping her character on the show, but why did they choose Lee’s character to be there anyway? Usually, I would’ve thought it was a coincidence, had it not been for the fact that Lee was always present during Jerome’s most important scenes. She was present during it all. She was there when he was first introduced (she was also the reason they were there in the first place. Both because she had circus tickets, and she’s the one that found out about Lila.) She was there when they found Lila’s body, she was in the interrogation room (which was the first, and last time she was in there while a suspect was being interrogated), she was at the GCPD when Jerome and the Maniax were shooting up the place, she was the one he and Barbara took hostage at the gala (she also witnessed his death), and she was the one he took hostage when he first woke up. The writers are in control of everything.. why would they choose Lee’s character out of all the other characters to be present during all these scenes?
Also “Everyone else has seen the Joker laugh, but only Harley has ever seen him cry.”- Arleen Sorkin. Lee held and comforted Jerome when they found his mother’s body (I know he was faking, but I still think it counts. The thing that stood out to me was the fact that Lee held him.. because I think Harley is the only one who gets to hold the Joker and see him cry.)
He wasn’t crying here, but she’s holding him from behind in a kind of similar way.
Plus there are many characteristics that she already has in common with Harley. Like the fact that she’s a doctor, with trauma training. Even though she’s not a professional psychiatrist like Harley, she basically is still somewhat of a therapist. Considering people always go to her when they need someone to talk to, plus she’s always giving therapeutic advice. Like she talked to Barbara about Jason, since that was the only way Barbara would have talked to anyone. We all know the reason now, but she still talked to her. Then she was the one Alfred called when he thought Bruce was going through some trauma from being kidnapped and needed someone to talk to. Lucious went to her and asked why someone would engage in such cat and mouse games like Ed was. And Jim even called her a residential therapist. A big bonus is not only is she a doctor, but she also worked at Arkham. That’s where she was first introduced on the show. Plus in the comics, Suicide Squad, and The Animated Series Joker calls Harley 'doc’ or 'doctor’ a lot. Lee is the only one Jerome calls doc.
There’s also some small, but relevant clues. Like the fact that her name is Leslie Thompkins, but she mainly goes by Lee. Lee is both in Harleen, and Harley (Harlee), so she could easily change her name to one of the two. Plus is you say it out loud, Thompkins can also kind of sound like ThompQuinns. Before Barnes was infected his name was Nathaniel Barnes, but when he got infected he renamed himself 'the executioner’. So she could change her name as well. I know Jim gave her the antidote, but the news reporter said there was only a 90% cure rate. Plus she was infected not only once, but twice. She first injected the blood into her arm willingly, and then she also got hit with it again when the bomb went off. Plus she didn’t want to take the antidote, so it may affect her differently than everyone else. And who’s to say the antidote would be 100% effective anyway.. considering it was the first batch that was made (I’m pretty sure, could be wrong though). My point is she could still come back, with a new persona. Anything could be possible at this point. She could still have some of the virus running through her veins, and she lied to Jim maybe. Or she could be cured, but because she liked the dark side so much she could choose to be bad still. I don’t believe Lee is gonna be gone long, because Morena didn’t say she anything about leaving the show or anything. So I believe she will be back. Maybe go back to Gotham and work at Arkham again? Or something along those lines. Another small but relevant clue is she has a sister. As far as I know Barbara was an only child, that little girl looked to be an only child, and I think Silver was an only child. But Silver isn’t possible anymore. Since she wasn’t in the finale. It’s narrowed down between the little girl, Lee, and Barbara. Possibly fish, but I seriously doubt it. Anyway in the comics Harley makes it known that she has a daughter with Joker named Lucy, who her sister takes care of.
So that’s a pretty big clue to me. Especially because it’s new 52 Harley (the one with red and black hair). Let’s also not forget the fact that the writers and David Mazouz said that Harley is definitely in the finale, and Lee was wearing all Harley colors in that episode. First she was wearing a black and white dress, then red and black, and then at the end of the episode she was wearing blue, red, black, and white. (other Harley colors).
Her outfits before the antidote:
Her entire outfit was red and black.. even her sunglasses, shoes, and purse.
Plus Lee has been highlighted in red a lot this season. Like in the light her hair highlights red, plus she wore red and black a few times (especially towards the finale), and her house was red and black.
Another small clue is she acted a lot like Harley when she had the virus. She was still corny, she laughed a lot, she was manipulative, she was flirty/ seductive, and a lot of people don’t talk about this, but her eyes turned blue in Babs and Tabs club (in the finale may I mention) and in the train. So she was wearing Harley colors, she had Harley traits (enhanced strength and agility; Throwing Butch across the bar), and her eyes turned blue.. all in the same episode which happens to be the episode Harley was supposed to appear in.
Her being corny/sarcastic/flirty:
Harley traits: Red and black, enhanced strength, and blue eyes.
And we have to narrow it down guys. The writers, and David both said Harley was for sure in the finale. Some more things they’ve said about Harley’s character is 'you may have already seen Harley as someone you thought you had met and known for a long time’, 'this person will somehow be connected to the Joker Cult World’, and 'Harley’s appearance is gonna be crazy.’ They said her appearance will be crazy enough to be the launching point into season four. So the only ones that match with all of these is Lee and Barbara. The little girl we didn’t meet nor know for a long time, as far as we know she isn’t connected to the Joker Cult World, but her first appearance was crazy. Some people are saying she had pigtails, and a red purse.. but I’m pretty sure she didn’t. She had one ponytail, and her purse was brown. She did however have a checkered skirt on, and a pink shirt I think.
Plus don’t get me wrong, but that family seemed happy. Harley’s family was damaged. Her father was a criminal, and her mother always compared her to evil people. She wanted to work at Arkham in the first place because she wanted to know why her father was the way he was. In this family the father actually tried to save his family, and the mother tried to guard her. I think they put that family in there randomly just to show Bruce starting to become Batman.. or maybe she will be the future Batgirl. I could actually see that happening, especially since Batgirl kind of looked up to Batman. This little girl will more than likely look up to Bruce since he saved her family. Cameron and Ben were once tweeting each other and Cameron said 'spoilers: BATGIRL’ or something along those lines. Ben also got asked if Batgirl was gonna be part of this universe and he said they’ve been talking about it and they have to see where Jim is, and where Barbara is. Plus someone asked Erin if Batgirl would be part of the show or something along those lines, and she said there probably wouldn’t be a baby because that would be the end for Barbara. So the show is talking about bringing Batgirl in it, but Erin said their probably wouldn’t be a baby. So I could really see that little girl becoming Batgirl. I think they’re either planning on doing that, or it was just a coincidence. I honestly don’t think she’s Harley. Nothing really 'screamed Harley’ to me other than the fact that she appeared in the episode they said Harley would be in, and the checkered skirt and pink shirt. I think it would be a bad move for them to make her Harley. Because the actress herself was really young. People are saying Lee and Barbara are too old for Jerome.. well the little girl is too young for Jerome and Cameron. I know Harley is supposed to be younger than Joker and Batman, but if this little girl is Harley then we won’t get to see any scenes between Harley and Jerome. People are gonna get mad at me, but be honest, when you think of Joker who else do you think of? Harley. And when you think of Harley who else do you think of? Joker. Sometimes Ivy. Erin Richards herself said they’re a team. We won’t get any Jarley scenes if Cameron is 23 and the little girl is probably 12. Don’t you all want to see Jerome and Harley interaction scenes? Or even Harley and Ivy scenes. Once again there won’t be any scenes between Harley and Ivy due to the fact that Maggie is 30 and the little girl is around 12. Now I would be okay if they were just showing the little girl to introduce her, and then maybe recast her with someone older.. but I really don’t think it’s her. She only adds up to one thing, out of three.
Then there’s Barbara, who adds up with all three. We’ve met and known her for a long time, she’s connected to the Joker Cult World (she’s interacted with Jerome), and I thought it was pretty crazy that she got electrocuted. That could probably be crazy enough to be the launching point into season four. But once again, I really don’t think she’s gonna be Harley either. She could be, and I guess I would be okay with that if she portrays her right, but I really don’t think she is. You all are gonna think I’m crazy, and I probably am for thinking this, but what if Barbara is gonna be Livewire? Now I know her background and stuff doesn’t match Livewire’s, but she did get electrocuted. If I remember correctly Livewire was electrocuted (I don’t know too much about her, so go easy on me.. I’m probably wrong). There are a few different versions of how it happened. Like in one version she was about to be in a helicopter crash when Supergirl saved her. But Supergirl got struck by lightning and the electricity went through her and to Leslie. Another version I think Superman was trying to save her from the stage because it caught on fire and he got electrocuted and it passed through her as well. My point is, pretty much in every version, Leslie became livewire through electrocution. Also when Leslie becomes Livewire her hair turns blue (in some versions bluish-gray) and her eyes get a really light blue. Also her skin becomes really pale. Barbara was really pale, and her eyes were really blue when she got electrocuted. She could have died and it’s only natural for her to look like that.. but what if she didn’t die? I believe it’s possible. Not to mention, in Supergirl Leslie was blonde and had blue eyes, like Barbara. Plus as far as I know, Livewire is seductive and a little corny as well. And I’m not sure how accurate this is, but someone said one of the writers said they would like for Barbara and Harley to team up when Babs and Tabs break up. Harley, Livewire, and Poison Ivy teamed up for a little bit in the animated series. Plus I know Livewire is more of a Superman villain, but she does make appearances in Batman the Animated Series. I’m probably wrong, but it’s possible. Either that or maybe the electrocution will make her sane? Maybe Barbara herself will become Batgirl?
I believe she could still become Harley though. She looked pale, and she was already displaying Harley- like character traits. In Suicide Squad movie Joker shocks Harley’s brain.. so it’s still possible. Also to be fair, I’m not counting anyone out, there was also Fish in that episode, but I highly doubt she’s Harley. She does have some characteristics.. such as using a bat for a weapon, she’s bi, she has one blue eye, and she wears black and red all the time. But her personality doesn’t match Harley’s in the slightest. She’s more of a leader, and she’s mainly about power and respect. So the one I really think is Harley is Lee. She’s a character we’ve thought we’ve known and loved for a long time (she’s changed a little bit every season. In season one she was this corny, sarcastic, lovable doctor. Then in season two she was still the same, but she was becoming a little darker, and then in season three we got to see a really dark side of her. One that acts a lot like Harley). She’s connected to Jerome (Joker Cult World) she even nursed one of his cult members and she’s seen how they dress. She was present during most of his important scenes, and she’s interacted (and flirted) with him. And I wouldn’t necessarily say her leaving was crazy, since she said she was going to for a while now, but it did kind of leave us hanging. Plus her leaving and coming back bad again could be a good launching point. Now, when she injected herself with the virus and first became evil, that was pretty crazy. Maybe that’s what they meant?
“She’s definitely one of the more unpredictable members of the squad. She also used to be a psychiatrist so she has an extensive knowledge of mental illnesses and how to manipulate people– I’m sorry, well, she has a lot of knowledge on how to profile people, pick their triggers, and as Harley Quinn she kind of utilizes that to just manipulate people and mess with them.” - Margot Robbie. When Lee was infected with the virus she manipulated Jim by saying she was in love with him. I honestly don’t think she loved Jim anymore.. because when you love someone you put their needs before your own. She literally gave him no other choice but to take the virus, knowing how much he didn’t want to. She was gonna let him die if he didn’t take the virus. It was basically a lose-lose situation for Jim and a win-win situation for Lee. And she didn’t want to be with the normal Jim, she only wanted to be with him while he had the virus. So Lee didn’t love Jim.. at least not truly love him. Because if she did she would have put his needs before hers. They basically confirmed this.
Unrequited Love: Unrequited love or one-sided love is love that is not openly reciprocated or understood as such by the beloved. The beloved may not be aware of the admirer’s deep and strong romantic affection, or may consciously reject it.
Another thing that I want to point out is Lee craved darkness all this time. I called it from day one since she watched Jerome in the interrogation room. She was watching him with intrigue, and you can see her smirk slightly when he revealed his true nature. “It’s pretty obvious when you think about it. Perfect Doctor Lee Thompkins, why would she be drawn to a man with so much darkness and such an appetite for violence? Unless something inside her liked it. Craved it. Needed it.” This makes me think of that sickness Harley has, where it turns her on when her partner does something bad. So if she craved darkness all this time, there’s no way she wasn’t at least a little attracted to Jerome. He’s the darkest character on the show.
And don’t you all find it a little strange that there was two ‘Doctor Leslie Thompkins’ on the show? Because I do. This is probably the craziest theory I’ve ever had, but what if Lee’s real name was Harleen, and she stole the other woman’s identity.. Yeah this is by far the craziest theory, but I just think it’s so weird that there was two. I know the show loves to keep us guessing, but I’ve also noticed they love to give hints and subtly foreshadow things.
She’s even credited as ‘Doctor Leslie Thompkins’ in the cast.
Some more things that are small but relevant clues:
1. She’s seen how Mary Loyd does her makeup (The heart under the same eye as Harley)
2. She has the obsession part
First she was obsessed with Jerome’s case, then she was obsessed with blaming Jim for Mario’s death, and then she was obsessed with Jim taking the virus and embracing ‘who he really is’. She’s a character of obsession, as is Harley.
Histrionic Personality Disorder:
-Dress provocatively and/or exhibit inappropriately seductive or flirtatious behavior
Her whole outfit screamed ‘look at me!’ Her breasts were popping out big time, her eyeliner was heavy enough to draw attention to her, and she was wearing sunglasses. I know wearing sunglasses is normal, but I don’t know about you all but I notice someone a lot faster when they’re wearing sunglasses.
Her inappropriately flirting with Alfred
-Act very dramatically, as though performing before an audience, with exaggerated emotions and expressions, yet appears to lack sincerity
(She’s done this quite a lot actually. She made a huge scene and outed Jim in front of the other GCPD officers, she especially did this when she went to the GCPD and told Harvey she buried Jim alive. Not to mention she threw Butch across the bar, not caring who saw.)
-Be overly concerned with physical appearance
-Constantly seek reassurance or approval
-Be gullible and easily influenced by others
(It didn’t take much effort from Jervis to convince her Mario’s death was ‘all her fault’. She’s more gullible than you would expect.)
-Be excessively sensitive to criticism or disapproval
(She was yelling at Jim and blaming him for Mario getting infected, but when Jim stood up for himself, she seemed really hurt.)
-Be self-centered and rarely show concern for others
4. Similarities/parallels
5. She’s 'sane’ right now, but I believe she will return and be bad again. This is a common thing for Harley. She switches from good to bad a lot
8. Hers and Jerome’s connection..
They show common body language signs of attraction:
1. Mirroring: Copying the other’s gestures, word phrases, etc.
I understand it’s only normal for her to grab a hold of him out of surprise.. but one of her hands was on his already, and then she hesitantly placed her other hand on top of his other hand.
Prolonged eye contact: Not to mention the way they look at each other. I haven’t seen them look at anyone else the way they look at each other. You don’t look at just anyone like that.
9. Morena basically confirmed herself as Harley: I think her emoji‘s meant she visited Mad Hatter in Arkham, which then linked to her injecting herself with the virus, and becoming Harley Quinn. <3
Both Lee and Harley have high-intelligence listed as one of their abilities. Amanda Waller once called Harley a genius.
This is really long and probably very unorganized and I apologize. There’s also probably a lot of mistakes, but I hope you all can overlook them :) I know I said I wouldn’t miss anything, but knowing me I probably missed a lot. If you agree please let me know, I love feedback. If you don’t that’s perfectly fine just please be respectful is all I ask :)
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