All Things Dragon Age

[dykieran]

i think my most controversial take on the dragon age vs mass effect drama that seems to spike up every time one of these series does anything noteworthy is that i feel like the discussions often seem to boil down to "Their Barbaric Problematic Fiction vs Our Enlightened Flawed Narrative" and i think we all need to take a step back. and remember that these are both bioware properties made by liberal white canadians in the 2000s. and they suck ass

[quibbs]

NO questions 🫡. she gets what she wants

[stonesense]

*spins wheel again* wouldn’t it have been really fucking funny if duncan, mid massacre, tried to conscript one of howe’s soldiers or the mage howe sent or something. like can he do that is that allowed

[stonesense]

objectively i know people engaged in a massacre probably don’t care a lot about warden law and duncan wasn’t exactly in a position to enforce it but the image is just incredibly good of duncan about to get stabbed being like “i invoke the right of conscription!” and the enemy lowering their sword like “i don’t think that’s how conscription works but i don’t know enough about the grey wardens to dispute it”

[atiya-nagrano]

i do think you can interpret the warden as having been deliberately sabotaged in being made warden-commander (and that is my interpretation). they've been warden for a year. they've met a grand total of 3 wardens, possibly adding avernus if you do soldier's keep. they've been given shall we say a rudimentary overview of what being a warden entails. at least one big reveal is locked behind the alistair romance. none of the origins except maybe but quite-frankly-not-rly aeducan and cousland are well equipped to handling a territory as large as amaranthine pulling double duty as arl/essa and warden-commander. warden-commander for all of ferelden, when duncan seemed to kind of just be freelancing it.

weisshaupt is reluctant to send more than riordan after having a bunch of wardens turned away. they're all of a sudden v confident abt filling vigil's keep w orlesian wardens in a way that's weird even taking into account loghain being out of the picture. even if the darkspawn hadn't slaughtered anybody, that's kind of provocative! that's kind of a huge mess for the new fereldan commander of the grey to manage! and if your hof dies, then they just straight up send an orlesian to be commander! this is bad diplomacy even if the wardens and ferelden have historically been on good terms, which they have not!

but then everybody gets slaughtered DAY ONE and................no reinforcements are sent? it's just 'well you better recruit some more!" the first warden sends woolsey DIRECTLY, and she is, as far as i can tell, just sort of there to manage money and observe how the wardens having legitimized control over an arling impacts their influence. i think she's also reporting back, tho this is conjecture on my part. her presence is bizarre, esp given that varel is local, gable has been working in the area for a while, and garevel is ambiguous but at least willing to go toe to toe w woolsey.

i think, esp in a worldstate where the warden-commander is the surviving hof, that weisshaupt makes them warden-commander with the intention of forcing them to either resign in disgrace or otherwise be removed. humble the person who survived the unsurvivable! ensure their legacy crumbles before it has time to set! make them inconsequential so that all the other wardens aren't asking 'well how'd THEY survive. it's possible to survive killing the archdemon??' i think weisshaupt isn't interested in curing anybody but they certainly have huge archives and resources with which to conduct that kind of research. but curing the taint does create a scenario where wardens could just up and leave, and that weakens warden power.

a surviving hof warden-commander starts performing joinings straight away. they potentially don't know wardens are infertile. they've had zero training. AND they're expected to balance the needs of a hard-hit arling as well as building the fereldan branch of the order from the ground up. if i am the warden i'm going hey it kind of seems like i'm being set up to fail.

[revvethasmythh]

on the one hand, i both understand and somewhat agree with the criticism that the lords of fortune were defanged of the more problematic elements that accompany treasure hunting and piracy, but on the other hand the idea that isabela reformed her raiders into a group that checks how important a plundered item is culturally before doing anything with it specifically because the last time isabela did NOT do this it resulted in An Actual Violent Coup That Almost Destroyed Kirkwall And Got The Viscount Literally Murdered is so fucking funny that i'm just like "yeah, fair enough"

[stonesense]

back and even bulkier with another powerpoint! i opted for spreading the information out in a hopefully engaging way over limiting the number of slides. the circle is a BIG, big topic, with such focus over the course of the games, so if i didn't cover anything useful, you want to know anything more specific, or equally if i made a mistake and missed or misinterpreted something, please let me know ily!!

transcript below the cut! my eternal thanks to @bisexualcommandershepard for providing one for the previous powerpoint and in doing so reminding me to get my act together, you have my sword

zevsurana’s guide to the circle of magi

can’t tell your circles from your chantries from your colleges from your conclaves? boy, do i have the powerpoint for you!

hit me with the basics

under the law of the orlesian chantry, every mage is required to join the circle

a mage who does not join the circle, or escapes one, is labelled an apostate, a crime punishable by death or tranquillity

tranquillity is the process by which mages are branded on the forehead, robbing them of their emotions and magic

at the end of their apprenticeship, each mage is taken without warning to their harrowing. they must choose between being sent into the fade for a dangerous test against possession, or tranquillity.

it is illegal to make harrowed mages tranquil, but they are still required to live under the circle’s supervision

depending on which text you believe, there are 14 or 15 circles under orlais’ chantry.

[this slide is accompanied by an image of a map of thedas. there are small markers spread across the map on 12 locations, mostly in orlais and the free marches, but included everywhere except tevinter and seheron.]

these are the known locations!

i didn’t include starkhaven’s, which was destroyed in a fire at the start of da2, or jainen’s, which is mentioned in an online game but as another circle in ferelden makes the dao plot make no sense. i suppose that would have gotten us up to 14 but i’m not doing it. cope

hierarchy of the circle

there are six ranks:

the grand enchanter is the mages’ direct representative to the divine. in our time, this is grand enchanter fiona, who famously stated “fuck the divine”

the first enchanter leads each circle. theoretically, their permission is needed for a mage to leave the tower, for a harrowing, and for a mage to be made tranquil. in practice, their actual power depends hugely on their political skill and their corresponding knight-commander

the senior enchanters are the most experienced mages in a circle, and advise the first enchanter, who will select one of them as their successor

those who have gained the rank of enchanter (also known as junior enchanters) are now expected to mentor apprentices

the simple rank of mage designates those who have passed their harrowing. an inhabitant of the circle fully capable of magic might say “i’m not a mage, just an apprentice”

the apprentices are children and young adults who have not yet completed their harrowing

outside of this hierarchy are the tranquil. they instead belong to the ‘formari’, who perform enchantment and sell enchanted items to produce the circle’s wealth

(it’s really important to me that you know the different ranks usually have different coloured robes to mark them out. i can’t explain that all here because it varies from circle to circle and we don’t have all the data but i think that’s so fun that i have to point it out even though it makes this slide super crowded i hate it i’m sorry)

politics of the circle: what are those first enchanters even doing?

an ideal first enchanter should govern their circle as a quasi-parental figure who can protect their mages while maintaining an uneasy balance and accord with the templars

they are also an administrator managing their circle’s finances

a weak or unskilled first enchanter can spell doom for their circle just as much as one at odds with their knight-commander

the college of magi is a council of all first enchanters

the college regularly meets in cumberland, nevarra, to discuss circle policy and elect the grand enchanter from among them

politics of the circle: what’s this about frat boys?

once a mage achieves the rank of enchanter, they may join a political fraternity

choose your fighter:

the largest fraternity, the aequitarians, are centrists

the loyalists are chantry bootlickers

the libertarians seek greater power and independence for the circle. the resolutionists are an even more radical group that emerged from them

the isolationists wish mages to withdraw from society completely

the lucrosians prioritise the accumulation of wealth and influence

the aequitarians maintained an alliance with the loyalists until the final vote to rebel, when wynne’s son rhys, asked to represent the aequitarians by first enchanter irving, voted with the libertarians

that was a lot of politics.

let’s take a breather because we haven’t even gotten to history yet oh boy

[this slide is accompanied by two pieces of dragon age concept art of white-haired mage women casting spells. one is an older human white woman who may be wynne, dressed in ornate robes and casting purple magic with a casually imperious gesture. the other is the concept art for warden surana, an angry-looking young elven white woman with a palm full of icy magic.]

hot circle mage concept art break. of course you have white hair and [caps lock begins] one thousand points lightning damage-- [caps lock ends]

but where do circles come from, i hear you cry

well, when two semi-circles love each other very much,

the year is 1:20 divine, and our questionable hero is kordillus drakon…

the circles had existed long before this, of course, in a very different form: elite tevinter academic societies

but right now, the south is in chaos. the first inquisition’s reign is coming to a close. the second blight is fifteen years underway with no sign of stopping any time soon, and will rage until 1:95 divine

kordillus drakon, the very first emperor of orlais, has a budding empire and a budding chantry that look like they might die in the cradle… unless he can continue enlisting mages against the darkspawn

we may wish to take a moment to register that kordillus drakon apparently looked like this. Sure.

[this slide is accompanied by concept art of kordillus drakon. he is blond white man in vaguely iron age dress, with an interesting hair cut including bangs, a high half ponytail and a very large moustache. he wears a swamp-green cloak and a black fur pelt over a green and white striped tunic, with a hand-axe slung through his belt, and crossed garters over whatever combination boots and pants he's wearing, which seems to be one singular garment.]

the solution to drakon's problem?

the nevarran accord

“what do video game enjoyers love? fantasy historical treaties? yeah, probably” – bioware, constantly

and they’re right unless you’re a joyless hater

the nevarran accord was agreed between the newly formed chantry and the original inquisition in 1:20 divine

the people of the south feared magic, but they also wanted to be able to use its power against great threats like the darkspawn

in one move, the circle of magi, the seekers of truth, and the templar order were created

some mages considered the circle a refuge in a world full of terror. to others, it was a prison

but this is dragon age, so maker forbid we would only be told one version of events

there is also a codex entry called ‘history of the circle’

it describes the mages of the divine age as chafing under being allowed to do little more than light candles and lamps for the chantry… as if there wasn’t a fucking blight going on

in protest, mages snuffed out the eternal flame in the grand cathedral at val royeaux, and barricaded themselves in the choir loft. divine ambrosia ii attempted to call an exalted march on her own cathedral, but even her templars discouraged her

shouted negotiations were conducted for 21 days before the mages “went cheerily into exile” in a remote fortress, separated from society into the circle for “the first time”

nerd's note:

personally, i would understand this as the circle as an organisation being created with the accord in 1:20 divine, and the mages being relegated to this lesser role after the greatest battles against the darkspawn, with the establishment of circle of magi towers after the protest. there’s no date of events on this codex, but since it mentions templars, it has to have been post-accord.

i would also take this account with a grain of salt in-world, as it was written by sister petrine, a controversial writer to the chantry, but nonetheless a chantry scholar.

this has been a lot of chatter about mages. but there’s an elephant in the room, and it’s looking at us suspiciously…

the circle and the templar order

the circle does supposedly have nominal independence from the chantry…

Knight-Commander Greagoir: I promised you aid, but with the Circle restored, my duty is to watch the mages. They are free to help you, however. Warden: I thought the templars were in charge of the Circle. Knight-Commander Greagoir: The templars guard and advise, but the first enchanter has the last word in what happens in the Circle.

...

Warden: Won’t the Circle of Magi do what the Chantry says? Alistair: Technically the Circle of Magi is independent. We don’t know that the Chantry won’t support us, of course. Morrigan: You truly believe that? Alistair: If we speak to the First Enchanter, he should see that his responsibility to the Grey Wardens supersedes anything the Chantry or even Teyrn Loghain might have to say about it.

… but since when has power ever gone where it’s supposed to?

as world of thedas volume 1 explains, “Although the Circle is supposed to be autonomous, a heavy Templar presence in all Circle towers has effectively made the organisation an arm of the Chantry for ages.”

a first enchanter can quickly lose all the power they allegedly hold

even in the best of times with a skilful, well-intentioned first enchanter, templars reserve the right to send mages to the dungeons, to take away their children, to kill any who leave the circle, etc. as a matter of course

grand clerics reserve the right to grant the right of annulment

generally, the system is maintained by a mutual interest in avoiding open conflict

the templars are the ones in power with the chantry’s full support. if they drive the mages to open conflict, their comfortable routine is uprooted

templars are equipped to hunt down individual mages, even blood mages and abominations

templars are not equipped to be outnumbered or face even numbers. mages are simply far more powerful in a fair fight than they are. lyrium can only do so much

...

mages, meanwhile, operate under the not entirely unfounded belief that the outside world is entirely hostile to them

at least if they remain, they can keep an uneasy balance in which most mages survive, their existence tolerated by the chantry. they can continue studying among their own kind in the only home they know

if they openly rebel, they may throw aside what limited protections and goodwill they have. mages like wynne outright state certainty that if they rebel, “genocide” will follow

furthermore, those mages with more status have more access to privilege. they’re also the ones who have best passed the chantry’s tests. thus, those in a position to lead are least inclined to rebel

you only rebel against the circle because you think less of your children are going to die starting a war than they are in here.

and, uh, on that cheery note… any questions from the class?

[moosu]

Grown ass man btw

[stonesense]

i do think it’s really funny that alistair has a reputation as a dog person when he is so much not a dog person that he will say so outright as he for real lets the mabari at ostagar die if you don’t do anything

[stonesense]

if you grab alistair before you first talk to the kennel master who says he needs a warden to muzzle the dog, you can say, “maybe you can help him, alistair”, and alistair says, “nope. dogs and i don’t get along. you do it, if you’re so eager. leave me out of it.”

the warden can then say “you’re no fun. let’s get going” and leave with no further reaction from alistair, despite the kennel master saying outright that if you do so the dog will have to be put down

[lavenderstobins]

replaying origins and i just maxed out sten's approval so naturally i thought of this tweet and had to make it

[sapphim]

da2 is bad actually because every time it attempts to present a "moral" "quandary" it immediately undermines itself by foaming at the mouth ranting about how the real societal evil has been blood magic all along. dao is good actually because every time it attempts to present a "moral" "quandary" it immediately undermines itself by having morrigan shout "do it lol" from back of the group. they are NOT the same.

[the-cryptographer]

Reminds me of that one time I was talking to fellow C*ssV*rric shippers who were saying they could grow to be good for one another and I was like ‘no the whole point is I think they’re both awful and deserve to trap themselves in a terrible het marriage where V*rric negs and undermines her constantly and C*ss gets physically violent about it sometimes.’ I want them to someday have three adult kids who avoid visiting like the plague

[the-cryptographer]

It sounds like a joke but it's so real to me.

Varric wants to live in the city and, after a few years babysitting Chantry stuff in Val Royeaux in correlation with Divine Leli or Vivi, Cassandra just straight up wants to retire to the country in Nevarra. Zero agreement on this that lends itself to spending part of the year here and part of the year there and both of them trying to extend out the time they are in their preferred location over the other. Always ends with one threatening to pack up and leave without the other and then seeing it through and the other is breathing a sigh of relief at first 'thank god they left so i can get some peace and quiet' but then three weeks later they miss the chaos and go trailing after the other.

Even when they are living together they spend so much time not on speaking terms. Varric will emotionally tear Cass down and she'll hit him and then they'll both shake it off as if it's nbd and she'll go out to this cabin/shed on the other side of the estate with her training dummies and workshop and do silent contemplation on the topic of the Maker for a week. And Varric will just lock himself in his study to write. And so many people are like 'have you considered divorce' and they're always like 'maybe, haha' but the next time they're at some public dinner Varric's like 'hey, Seeker, sit on my lap' and everyone expects Cass to have a backbone but instead she does it and pretty soon they're laughing and flirting and it's awkward and uncomfortable for everyone and Varric sends a courier out to buy them scented candles and bath salts for later that evening.

Varric hosting Hawke and Anders and whoever else from whatever Kirkwall polycule for dinner one day and straight up lying to Cassandra zero internal conflict about how that's not Anders that's Hans.

They're both past their mid thirties at the end of DAI so they have these kids kinda late and people are worried about pregnancy complications but Cassandra super healthy, carries them to term smoothly, birthing process goes smoothly. So that's good, but also they're both in their forties-to-fifties raising these kids and are SO out of touch with what it is to be young in modern Thedas.

All three kids are boys, which disappoints both Varric and Cass a bit in different ways, but they get over it mostly. The kids are all super visibly dwarven too. Cassandra teaches them how to hit stuff and be ready to slay a dragon but she is super determined NOT to drag them into Pentaghast noble stuff. Varric arranges their schooling among surface dwarf diaspora populations. Cassandra makes sure they go to Chantry service each week. At least two of them end up working sort of bureaucratic jobs with the merchant's guild.

They're good kids. They really are. And Varric thinks they're the most boring people alive.

One of them should be gay and come out to Cassandra, and Cassandra's like 'oh, um... good, okay. your father knows more about it than me.' *awkward stiff pats on the shoulder from the most stern silver fox mom who's taller than you ever* and then the kid tells Varric and Varric's trying extremely hard not to say 'you should come up with a more exciting plot twist' so instead he's like 'okay, but you don't really know gay until you've heard about the crazy group of bisexuals i used to run with in Kirkwall' (his sons have heard this story on repeat all through their childhoods) and really the message gets across anyhow and after that son spends all the holidays at his husband's house.

[jack-of-blades]

I just finished reading Tevinter Nights and it's a shame how a lot of low income folks like me don’t have access to it or any of the other Dragon Age novels or the cookbook or the two editions of world of Thedas *sigh* I did put a photo of my cat right here though if you want to see how beautiful he is, please ignore the loose pdf files in the folder!

[treatsformeeko]

kiss week day 2 prompt “tavern” with merribela 😛

[the-cryptographer]

we can go over the individual merits and flaws of every single character and weaponise morality to justify our likes and dislikes, but I think the great strength of DA2 is that we got sold a group of companions from different national, ethnic, and religious backgrounds with a great diversity of opinions and - whether you buy their loyalty with kindness or beat it out of them with cruelty - by the end of the game you can convince every single one of them without exception to either participate in genocide, or to fight against it. we can argue all day about who is best and who is worst. but every single one, no matter where they come from, has a full range capacity for both goodness and banal brutal evil.

[sha-brytols]

sorry im imahining the "i was hoping justice would be the dominant personality" line in esther's worldstate and its killing me

[sha-brytols]

the idea of nathaniel talking so casually about justice as if he's just a normal guy in front of literally any of the da2 cast is an incredibly funny thought

[stonesense]

the more i’m playing jaws of hakkon the more i’m realising how deeply stupid it would be to play during the base game

[stonesense]

josephine: inquisitor our forces are fighting and dying

inquisitor: not now josie i’ve decided to get an archaeology degree

[kirkwallsquad]

isabela dragon age is literally the character of all time. she's a pirate. she has a big hat. she escaped an abusive marriage that her mother sold her into. she is friends with benefits with the guy who helped her escape said marriage. she loves her friends. she's allergic to being vulnerable. "if we kill them, we get their stuff!". she runs an organization of tomb raiders. she might have been an admiral. she joined the king on a journey to talk to his ghost dad. she chooses a boat over you. she helps her friends in so many ways, from nudging fenris into being more accepting of mages, to being protective of merrill and teaching her never to bet anything she isn't prepared to lose, to using her sheer force of personality to slowly diminish aveline's internalized misogyny. she doesn't wear pants. she lies to you. she leaves you. and if you've shown her kindness and compassion and that you share values (because she has values, she has such strong values), she returns. she's even bisexual.