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@haloeddean-blog
ah.......
yikes
Scruffy!Dean Appreciation
Thereâs something really important about that conversation from 13x03 that people seem to gloss over when going to defend Sam from mean ol Dean.
Sam never denies what Dean says about him wanting to use Jack. He has an opportunity to deny it - two opportunities actually - but does he? No. The first time he just makes the conversation about himself and how he didnât go bad. Second time, he just does that irrated head tilt thing he does without saying anything. Sam couldâve at any point said something about it yet he ~mysteriously~ stays quiet about it. Itâs almost like he canât deny it because if he did then heâd be lying.
So I mean go ahead and get on Deanâs case for being a mean to Sam² but donât forget heâs not the only one being an asshole here.
when people say Dean needs to get over his grief:
:v
The entire conversation that Sam had with Dean, was almost an exact match to John's last conversation with Dean, including the flattery about how Dean saved Sam. I think it's blowing people's minds that this time around Sam is the John, that Sam is the one putting weight on Dean's shoulders for Sam's benefit. The only difference is that Dean's not taking it this time and he's fighting for his own feelings and dealing with his hurt. So yes Sam is the John right now.
I agree with this.
Yes it pisses me off so much these people are trying to push the John comparisons on Dean, when Sam is TOTALLY being John in this situation. When Dean was 5 years old and mute with grief, John did nothing for him and then he started giving him more and more responsibility for taking care of OTHER people. And Sam is doing the SAME god damn thing. Dean is being drown by grief and all Sam is interested in his current project âSave the monster who reminds me of me 6.0). When the hell does Dean get to grieve? When does anyone ever put helping and supporting and being there for Dean for more than three seconds and one empty platitude(if they even bother with that).
Wasnât it established back in S4 (Jump the Shark I believe) that Sam is basically John 2.0? Wasnât there a whole emotional arc where Dean came to terms with the fact that he was never like John and failed miserably even when he tried to be (which at the time Dean saw as a bad thing). Even before that, back in season one, John and Sam admit that the main reason they butt heads is because theyâre just alike.
(I mean look at their motivations for hunting, their general temperaments, their preference for organization and control, always wanting to call the shots while somehow simultaneous making Dean responsible for things, their responses to having their authority questionedâŚ)
#IâM PRETTY SURE SAM WANTED TO BE JOHN Â #THAT HE STILL TRIES TO GET DEAN TO SUBMIT TO HIM Â #THE SAME WAY Â #IT DOESNâT WORK Â #AND THAT FRUSTRATES THE CRAP OUT OF SAM Â #SAM AND JOHN Â #NOT 100% ALIKE Â #BUT THERE ARE SOME PRETTY STRONG PARALLELS Â Â (@squirrelsan)
The oedipal subtext in in S1 certainly suggests that Sam wants to be John, i.e. replace him, and itâs his personal tragedy that he never quite achieves that, even long after John is dead. Because Dean might show him extraordinary love and forgiveness, more than heâs ever shown John, and he might let Sam bully him into doing whatever Sam wants, but he doesnât automatically respect him. What Sam wants above all is Deanâs trust and respect, and the way he goes about demanding it ensures that heâs never going to get it. It does make me feel sorry for him.
(Btw, in Jump the Shark Dean saw John pretty negatively - distancing himself from him was a positive move rather than a failure and comparing him to Sam instead was meant as a scathing criticism of the latterâs actions.)
Dean Winchester | 13x04 The Big Empty [x]
I like Deanâs refusal to immediately accept Jack as a good person. Not only does it make more sense than Samâs approach, but it also means that if Dean at some point doea decide that Jack is in fact good, it will be earned. Just like Deanâs trust in Cas or Benny didnât come immediately, without having to be earned. And therefore it held much more weight than some random, out-of-the-blue âthis guy must be good because Iâm projecting myself into his situationâ stance.
I understand the point, but thatâs not whatâs happening for Sam. This isnât an older-than-time angel or a vampire whoâs already lived multiple lifetimes and spent decades in the afterlife. This is a brand new infant creature (even if he doesnât look it) and while he may not necessarily be âgoodâ yet, he IS innocent. He hasnât had the chance to be bad, and so Sam is treating him accordingly. The same way you should treat any child. Holding Jack to the same standard as Cas or Benny is not logical and itâs not right. He doesnât know what they did. No one ever taught him about the world. And no offense, because I adore him, but weâve seen what happens when Dean does things his way. Heaven and Hell successfully manipulated Sam into starting the apocalypse and the Demons very nearly got Jesse on their side. Sam was the one who pulled him back from the edge by doing exactly what heâs doing now for Jack; he told him the truth, told him the stakes, and gave him a choice. With any luck, Sam (and Cas when he gets back,) can teach Jack how to be good and when he faces his own moment of truth, heâll make the same choice Jesse did. Heâll cross the threshold and go from innocent child to good man. But heâll never get there if no one gives him a chance.
*coughs* Emma.
Heâs not innocent, though, because he mind controlled and possessed Cas while in the womb. Dean does have reasons to distrust him.
And Iâm sorry, but is this person implying Dean is to blame for heaven and hell manipulating Sam into starting the apocalypse?? In 2017? Weâre still pretending Sam had no free will?
No, Iâm not. Obviously Sam had free will, but to the best of any of their knowledge, he was doing the right thing (if via sketchy means). If Dean had tried to understand and support him tho, it couldâve been a 5x18 situation. He didnât make Sam kill Lilith (which he was planning on doing himself) but he did make it easier for the angels and demons to manipulate him by refusing to give him a support system. Not his fault, but he played a part. Just like Cas and just like Sam.
How? How could Dean have supported Sam more and understood him more? Supporting Sam listening to Ruby and drinking demon blood would have accelerated the apocalypse. Sam stopped drinking blood for a short while because he agreed with Dean and everyone that it was wrong. If Dean supported him, we wouldnât even have that.
A support system is not a group of people who let you do whatever you want without criticism. Thatâs enabling and itâs bad. And it wasnât âto the best of their knowledgeâ the whole point is that Dean knew it was better to not drink demon blood and listen to Ruby, but that was the option Sam wanted it to be. It wasnât the most researched option or well supported option or even the only option, but Sam wanted it to be that one and wouldnât listen to Dean telling him it wasnât. Maybe Sam should have supported Dean killing Lilithâthat wouldnât have started the apocalypse.
Isnât it amazing that the brother who HADNâT spend the last several decades being tortured and violated by demons is the one framed as needing the support from the one who had, and is thereby completely excused from lying, drinking literal blood, and betraying his brother and friends for a demon because âhe was doing the best he knew.â Because all of those activities sound like things any hunter should know not to do. And apparently if Dean just hadnât shown he was upset that Sam had done these things, and in fact had gotten over his trauma enough to cheer Sam on (which seems to be his sole purpose to exist)Â supposedly the apocalypse, which resulted from Sam doing all these frankly heinous things in the first place, would have of course, been magically avoided. Wow. I have no words. The abuse in that twisted logic is so extreme. Just wow.
the âlogicâ here completely trips me up because all aside are people actually defending blood drinking. like just thinking about it should make you go âhm thatâs sounds way too fucked up to be a good ideaâ
the fuck
hello page 264 maybe its time u go back to page one bc you dont make a lick of sense âits deans fault that his 30 yr old man baby brother tried to show off so he can prove smth or whateverâ like ? support system my ass
Exactly Dean couldnât have shown more support unless he turned himself into a mindless lap dog(and hell even they bite sometimes). He did everything he possibly could and Sam LIED to him and went behind his back anyway. Sam didnât do any of that because he thought he was doing right. He did it because they manipulated Samâs biggest flaw - his ego, his need to be âbetter and smarter and strongerâ. Thatâs not Deanâs fault. Itâs not up to Dean to pretend Sam is those things when Sam is being STUPID. Which is what Sam was being. But Dean tried to go along with having Ruby as an ally. And what did Sam do after Dean thanked Ruby and basically did exactly what Sam said he wanted? He went back to lying to Dean and sneaking around behind his back to drink demon blood with Ruby. Ok, Sam was a grown man making his own choices. Dean did not cause or make him do anything. Sam made those choices because of SAMâs flaws, not Deanâs, as it was Dean was doing his best to try and deal with his memories of 40 years in Hell and Sam lying to him and sneaking around on him and Sam looking down on him by claiming he was somehow ânot up to the challengeâ. Dean comes back from 40 years in Hell and when he is finally able to open up to Sam about it, what does Sam do? He uses it against him, he mocks him for it, he uses it as an excuse to do more lying and sneaking around and generally treating Dean like crap. Who are these people and how is Dean somehow always responsible for everyone elseâs actions? Also you know what Jack is NOT a child, Jack is not an infant. Not just because he doesnât look like one but because he isnât one. He has the knowledge of the ages inside of him, he was mind-controlling people from the womb for goodness sake.
saferincagesÂ
âIt may not be <i>right</i> but itâs <i>rational</i>.â Iâve tried writing several posts to express this point and havenât been able to figure out the wording I was looking for, and this is it exactly. it seems like people are suffering cognitive dissonance from this, the idea that something can be rational and justified, even if it isnât necessarily the ârightâ or âniceâ response. his reasoning is sensible and in character, but itâs being presented in a terrible/derivative way (Samâs reasoning is equally derivative & might be better if they were giving it some measure of thought beyondâŚwhatever it is theyâre doing). Dean isnât doing this bc he has no sympathy or bc heâs blindly judgmental, he has concrete, valid reasons for this reaction. the narrative could be interesting if only they were portraying it as more layered/didnât want to force us to forget what we know to be true about Jackâs conception/ the dangers therein of his existence
 yeah. i am extremely wary of any attempt to force a certain kind of narrative, to manipulate me into a specific feelings for a character and this new tactic with jack is leaving me confused. i donât think any other character has ever been presented this way - not even cas who later became a favorite, was introduced like a poor wounded half-angel who is sad and cute, in fact most of the reasons why i liked him so much at first was because he was exactly the opposite and that love has waned and faded in time when they started to force the poor wounded angel on me - but i digress, itâs weird, or maybe not, that they found the exact way to force a new character on fandom by using all those cheap tricks i knew would have worked (an example could be adding a cute doggie to a story: everybody will love him or her and everybody will hate whoever is mean to said cute little doggie) in the end it has worked so well and it created an insta stanning in fandom i have never seen - so maybe they did exactly what they had to do to make it happen.Â
itâs not for me, but if itâs working for others fine.
 what i am peeved about is that the writers and then fandom is using dean to force that kind of reaction and itâs trying to manipulate everybody into siding with sad potato nephilim - how dare dean hate a child!! is something i have seen moer than once. the writers are trying to make us forget things like mindcontrol and everything from jackâs conception to him being born by simply rewriting both kelly and casâs role in his life for a kind of revisionistic story: kelly was a symbol of goodness and cas is now jackâs father. this jack may look and act like a sad potato but is also creepy for the power he possesses and for the things he did with that power so far. i donât need the show to tell me that dean is being mean and ignore all the reasons why dean (and most of the nuance is coming from jensen) is reacting in perfectly rational ways with a touch of creepyness into it (maybe he didnât forget the mind control of Kelly and Cas?), albeit one that is colored by loss and grief and so itâs not perfect. i donât need it to offset deanâs reaction with samâs and present it as pure and selfless (it isnât neither pure nor selfless but one that is also colored by his feelings of projection and need) to tell me that dean is bad and sam is good. itâs⌠childish. itâs not a good story. itâs not a contrast worth calling nature vs nurture.
so i guess what annoys me the most is their lack of nuance, their inability to tell a story without making it about something else. i guess we will see sam tell jack that he is pouring his hopes on jack for some kind of misguided projection of his own feelings of inadequacy or whatever other plot they are unearthing after years but i donât expect for anybody, least of all dean, to call him out on the false parallel he is creating between jack and himself, and on the damage that that kind of projection could do. or on its unfairness on jack. basically, i donât expect samâs side of the story to be told critically neither in the show NOR in fandom.
#my four moods
#givedeanahug2k17
the only draw back to that scene with the argument is that there is a good chance weâll have to deal with the ye old âdean eats his words and apologizes for having strong thoughts and feelings bc those are only for everyone elseâ next episode...
me watching dean actually get angry and telling sam exactly what heâs thinking and feeling while also calling sam out on his shit:
i honestly could not care about this jack and sam stuff less if i tried...
cool iâm glad i started to watch this alone bc i immediately want to cry
Literally saw people saying if jack âgoes badâ itâll be Deanâs fault and now Iâm wondering if that is Dabbâs plan. Is he going to somehow blame Dean for this like they blamed Dean for letting Lucifer out even though he opposed it at every turn?
Iâd also like to point out that NO ONE has ever talked about how Dean made the villain of s11, Amara, âgo goodâ when no one else could, so fuck y'all.
