Someone probably already did this during the great susie displacement meme eras (tm) but I want to expand on it. Set after chapter 4 through the fountain within fountain shenanigans, they are sent to the different world with different bodies (including the knight) and got seperated. They all have their memories and intellects but just can't communicate. Kris was surviving for their life by themselves for a while until they run into Susie, who gave them a good fright (Susie recognize them immediately and chasing after them)
When Chapter 4 released, I was sure the "inferno of jealousy" in chapter 5 was referring to Asgore's jealousy over Toriel moving on from him - and that idea only got stronger after seeing her with Sans near the end. But no, Gerson deduced, through both the profecy and observing their behavior, that *Kris* was the jealous one.
"Jealousy" is perhaps the strongest theme in Chapter 5. Ralsei is jealous of Flowery's ability to be seek freedom without fear, while Flowery is jealous of Ralsei and the gang for being the only ones allowed to have a dark world, and being able to decide who gets to continue existing - "Why is your fantasy more important than ours?". Most importantly though, throughout the whole chapter there was a growing, simmering resentment from Kris. They are jealous, so jealous, of Susie and Noelle's relationship. Over the chapters, it has been an ever more important background development that Kris is head over heels for Susie, but either can't or won't spit it out. Kris is a terribly lonely kid, with Asriel gone off to college, Dess gone in a more permanent way, and Noelle estranged and awkward with them. Susie was sort of a lifeline, and "their thing" was very important to them, regardless of any nefarious plans that may be revealed in the future. Susie and Noelle are, respectively, the girl they like, and the first girl they ever liked. And now both of them are sidelining Kris, and not only that, forcing Kris to watch. There's no malice in that, they're simply lovestruck teenagers excited for their first relationship, and this is a normal consequence of it. But Kris is heartbroken, and refuses to say anything positive about the girls' relationship. The inferno of jealousy is the core of chapter 5, but I think Kris' simmering is gonna reach boiling point in chapter 6, now that Susie straight up said this is not their special thing anymore, and Noelle is gonna become an official part of the team. Susie of course is right, this is definitely the best course of action, but Kris is also 16 and filled with uncontrollable emotions.
I think the post credits scene perfectly illustrates the vibe. After an adorable montage of Susie hanging out with the darkners and preparing Castle Town to welcome Noelle, it cuts to Kris standing dejected in the dark, staring at the closet door. Then, they slowly turn around and leave.
In a sense, Gerson was warning Susie that *she* was going to be the target of that jealousy.
The YA love triangle stuff is gonna be juicy next year.
Okay so we know Noelle's heavily implied to be suicidal, especially considering the weird route. But like. The fact that in the normal route, Susie picks her up, keeping her from touching the water she drowns herself in in the weird route. The fact that if they go on the ferris wheel they can't even SEE the lake. Like look I don't even go here but the reason why Suselle works, specifically for Noelle's arc, is that her relationship with Susie is the first time in a very long time where Noelle's bond with someone isn't complicated.
She loves her dad, but he's very sick and possibly going to die soon, so she feels anxiety and pre-emptive grief while also still hoping he'll get better
She loves her sister, but Dess has been missing for years. And Noelle has never stopped missing her or looking for her online, and she says it herself that ever since Dess disappeared her life got so much worse
She cares for Catti and Berdly, but they both do that thing that pretty much everyone else in her life does: treat her like a delicate maiden that is in constant need of protection and can't make her own choices. They both make assumptions about her and can be pretty annoying sometimes, even if they mean well
She cares for Kris deeply, they're one of the few people she feels comfortable saying no to, and understands them on a deeper lever than pretty much anyone else, even Susie who's only known them for a few days and thus can't tell that they've been acting out of character lately. But Noelle and Kris are nowhere near as close as they used to be, and its hinted at the fact that their relationship was always complicated even as kids, possibly due to outside forces. But with how often Noelle brings up and reminiscences on stuff that happened in their past, its pretty clear that she's haunted by how distant they've become but can't bring herself to make the first move because what if it was all in her head? What if they were never as close as she thought? If Kris wanted to reconnect, they would have already tried to do so, right? So she keeps her distance, because she has no idea how to approach them anymore
Even with Carol, I dont think Noelle HATES her, but she's definitely scared of and frustrated with her
Hell, she's so good at hiding it but this girl is already barely hanging on by a thread by the time the game starts and the weird route is just us pushing her over and over towards the edge until its too late
But with Susie? Sure she's worried about how her mom will take it, but for the first time in such a long time, things feel easy and freeing when she's with her. She doesn’t have to stress about how Susie feels about her or mold herself to meet her expectations.
And I get why that uncomplicated nature of it may make them as a couple boring to some (again i don't go here) but you'll never catch me saying that it doesn't work narratively.
With that being said I do think its possible that the next chapter will introduce some suselle angst. Rudy may actually be dead or very close to dying and Noelle said that part of the dark world's appeal for her is that every injury/wound in there can simply be healed with magic, obviously thinking about her dad while she said it. So its not off the table that when she finds out that Susie lied to her about the dark worlds not being real, she may not take it well.
Seeing the clips of the weird route made me think of this scene from Steven universe for some reason, I wish I would get my ideas sooner in the day so I didn’t spend all night finishing stuff
(no storyline just fluff stuff be they deserve all the
happiness)
Kris got into uni as monster science and Susie being employed as firefighter (at first I made her into mechanic but currently job would fit her better)
Someone told me I should bring some of my ideas on over here too
I wanted to analyze the parallels between Spamton and the rest of the main cast, and so, I started with him and Susie.
A lot of Susie and Spamton's parallels are tied to being unwanted and lashing out as a result of that isolation.
There is also a line to follow through about the pair of them both being determined despite the overwhelming force of fate working against them.
Of note first are the lines about being unwanted. Susie is directly contrasted with Spamton in the Susiezilla minigame with being controlled 'like an unwanted puppet' Susie also states she felt like a broken toy no one wanted which puppets are often considered, toys. The conch then is of note, unwanted, surrounded by washed up glass, and repeats what it knows. Spamton has the rotten glass flavor text in his fight, repeats what he knows in brackets, and then of course is tied to the unwanted part with the unwanted puppet line in Susiezilla.
Susie and Spamton also both seem to have struggled with fake friendships or connections that were not as deep as they longed for them to be. Susie had people get close to her as a joke. Spamton's friends abandoned him once he lost his fame and success.
The faked or lost friendships were likely the hardest hit along the road. Susie indicates this with her 'people who don't tell you the whole deal' and 'why would anyone really wanna be my friend anyway' and Spamton in the weird route with his reliving of muttering his lost friends' names. (Also of note, Spamton's 'you make me sick and Susie's 'why would anyone' indicate they both have somewhat of a dislike for themselves)
So, what happens when someone feels lost, abandoned, or neglected? Despair is common, but so too is anger. A desire to see everything burn once you have been unjustly treated. It is no wonder Susie smashed a piano after she was made to quit playing or that Spamton wants everyone to pay. With prolonged mistreatment, many turn to anger as a coping mechanism.
A general insecurity about their living situation follows them both as well. Susie indicates that wherever she sleeps she considers home even about the bush hideout. Spamton sleeps in a dumpster.
They both can be turned away from this desire to lash out through genuine connections and friendship. Susie of course gradually through chapter one until she joins the party for real, and Spamton when he believes that he is being helped then wants to live for himself and his friends before he too, joins the party. Him noting that he wants to become the gangs strength when Susie is often described as strong is also of note.
There are some bonus smaller parallels between the two that are perhaps fainter in link. With the conch likely representing Spamton, at least in part, this ties him to oceanic imagery and then during the Gerson fight, it is stated that waves crash far far far below. The sound of the ocean is that of waves. Susie also hears the song out across the water. Perhaps a small connection to fate or the unknown.
The prophecy defying determination seems to follow them both. With the prophecy panel of 'The Queen's chariot cannot be stopped', aside from the explosion, it stops once, to allow you to meet Spamton. Like his very existence briefly glitched the prophecy. With Susie I believe we have yet to see how far any prophecy bending might go but with Gerson's description of her wielding a white pen of hope that can override the dark, I believe this too will be followed through.
So, they both have a strong mutual desire to overwrite fate. I think these parallels, especially with being unwanted are lending towards the idea of struggling and continuing to do so even when it seems like there is nothing one can do. That it's important to keep trying, even if you have to change your role in the story to keep going.
Slightly on that note, tinier parallel is them both having the ability to heal despite it perhaps being unexpected given their general demeanors or behaviors on first glance. An indication that there's something trending towards rebuilding in there rather than just an urge to tear it all down.
Last little funny comparison is that they would absolutely both swear if the game allowed it.
There are even more comparisons one could draw but at a brief glance they seem to be both expressing clear ideas about abandonment, fated roles, and the idea that connections and friendship can reach people even when they seem scary, or unnerving, or like a lost cause.
Hope you enjoyed this one I believe I'll go over Ralsei next.
theartofmadeline
gummygunk
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