Hermit House

Crazy Together

[hermit-house]

Hey weirdos, do you copy?

Who I think might die in ST5

[thewisewill80sbyers]

the questions I would ask the Duffers: why does every single set in season 5 look cheap as hell? Did you use Stranger Things 5 as a laundering scheme? Can you give an explanation for the red dial? Mistake? Oh, cool. And tell me, are you also sleeping with the set designer? Are you aware your soon to be wife should change her job as a hairstylist to something else since apparently she can't keep track of the continuity? Did you steal the script of stranger things from your college friend? No? Ok. Sure. How long has your addiction to cocaine been a problem for your logical thinking? You're not? Uh... So, did your dog write season 5 while you were on vacation, and if so, why are you hiding the first dog with the ability to write a script?

[erikiara80]

"Only one of us was truly like him"

[hawkinsschoolcounselor]

I try not to intrude into the conformitygate space. For the most part, it's harmless theorizing. But there is one thing I can't ignore anymore.

There is no long con, no master plan, no deception. Stranger Things is over. The spinoff is nothing more than a cash grab. It's not part of some plot by the Duffers to fool the audience.

The Duffers aren't even involved anymore. They've moved on to their next projects (which I urge people to ignore). They aren't even working with Netflix anymore for these new projects. Netflix owns the rights to the Stranger Things property now. The Duffers do seem to have retained Executive Producer credits, likely as part of the deal that granted Netflix the rights, but it likely doesn't mean anything. They may technically have final say, but most likely in a "rubber stamp" sort of way.

There's no hidden message from the cast. Yes, they say some seemingly scripted things about the show, but that's all part of their contracts. They're not allowed to actually speak their minds, whether they liked the show or not. They can only say what they're told to say. Even if their contracts are up or don't cover that, they'd still be expected to say positive things for the sake of professionalism. Even when Noah said critical things, he was still very careful about how because he knows he can't explicitly say anything bad.

The social media and marketing teams aren't up to anything. They're just pushing the spinoff. The marketing has always been a bit fourth wall breaking. In the lead up to season 4, they pulled stunts where the Upside Down was creeping into the real world. It's all just an attempt at immersion since the show relied on the idea that there's this shadow reality trying to get into our world. Of course, the Duffers went and destroyed that mystique by revealing it was all, somehow, just a wormhole.

I'm sorry that it ended the way it did. I hated it, too. I also believed that it was all a fake out at first. But nobody would sink their own project and risk losing everything all for the sake of a swerve months later, and no investor would ever go in for that.

So, by all means, theorize. You come up with ideas that are leagues better than anything the Duffers proved they could manage. But, please, move on from the idea that it's all leading up to something. The Duffers don't deserve it.

[hawkinsschoolcounselor]

Netflix has really lost the plot if they think a theatrical preview for Tales From 85 is a good idea. I suppose there will be some interest, but it will mostly go unseen in theaters.

I fear they've massively misunderstood not only why people were willing to watch the finale in theaters, as it was expected to be a massive and wholly satisfying conclusion to what was once a highly respected show, but also people's reactions to that finale.

People were not upset the show was over.

People did not come up with conformitygate out of a need to cope with the show being over.

People did not think the show was so great they desperately wanted it to continue.

No, not at all.

People were pissed with how it ended.

People were disappointed by the lack of monsters in the Abyss, along with the Abyss itself appearing as a featureless bad green screen effect.

People were confused by the plot holes and plot lines ending without any explanation or resolution.

People were angry that the final battle was a total curb stomp by the heroes, making Vecna and the Mindflayer look like weaklings and the Party, a motley crew of untrained normals, look like superheroes.

People felt betrayed that not only Will's feelings had to go completely unspoken (no, alluding to a vague crush doesn't count), but that El had to go through another ambiguous death, just as she did in season 1.

So, no, Netflix, people aren't frothing at the mouth for more Stranger Things. They just felt like what they got as a final serving was total bullshit. Confortmitygate came about because that finale being fake made a lot more sense to many of us than it being how the show actually ended.

Tales From 85 is not an answer for that. It's little more than an attempt by Netflix to squeeze as much money as it can from the property.

[narrativelogicofbyler]

as someone with a ba hons in film and television studies, i’m genuinely losing my mind at how blatantly the show expects us to ignore its own craft. because why was finn doing all that micro expression work, the kind of tightly wound, hyper specific performance you only direct when a character’s internal conflict is the point, if we were never meant to see inside mike’s head. why was his perspective treated like a state secret. why was he acting like a boy with a locked emotional basement for four seasons if apparently there was “nothing” down there. why did finn say mike was “trying to be normal” in season 4 when the only time he actually starts performing normalcy is california, which means the performance is a reaction to something, not his default. why does rink o mania frame his entire day around will, why is the withheld hug shot like a crisis of recognition, why is the camera screaming what the script refuses to say.

and then season 5 has the audacity to allow mike say he’s scared, framed like setup, scored like setup, shot like setup, and then the season just drops it. no arc, no payoff, nothing. every other character gets development except mike, who is written like someone tore out his storyline and hoped no one would notice. why does he nod when will says he doesn’t want to be afraid anymore, why is he nearly crying during the coming out scene, why is his room coded like a queer thesis project if none of this is intentional. why can he not say “i love you” to el unless will literally feeds him the emotional language, and even then, why does he never actually say it to her face while they’re both conscious if this is supposed to be their big romantic moment. why is “i love you” a death omen for every other couple but somehow framed as romantic for mike and el. why does he lie in the season 4 monologue if it’s meant to be sincere, and why does the show never address the lie even though it’s glaringly obvious on rewatch. why do they prove in season 2 that they can write an intimate monologue with other people in the room, only to deliberately contrast it with the opposite in season 4.

and why, in season 5, does mike not seem to care about el until the finale, and even then he still can’t say he loves her despite that being his entire plot the previous season. why is el not speaking to him at the end of season 4 but the conflict is never revisited in season 5 when every other interpersonal thread gets dragged back up. why does he keep looking at will like that. why do the writers and directors keep framing mike and will scenes with romantic visual language while mike and el scenes feel cluttered, interrupted, and aggressively un romantic. why is the painting treated like a seismic emotional beat for mike only to have zero payoff, remaining a lie that is never confronted. why establish that will “can’t lie to mike” and then let the one lie go unaddressed forever. why hang the painting on the wall in the epilogue like a confession they were too cowardly to say out loud.

and honestly, why make mike queer through subtext, through performance, blocking, lighting, visual language, narrative withholding, if they were never going to commit. because from a film and tv standpoint, you don’t accidentally write, direct, light, block, score, and perform a queer storyline for five seasons. you don’t accidentally build a character whose entire emotional trajectory orbits another boy. you don’t accidentally create negative space around a character’s sexuality so consistent it becomes the only coherent through line he has. so yes. why why why. because the show built a locked door, carved “there’s something in here” into the wood, and then pretended the key never existed.

[narrativelogicofbyler]

i’m reaching a point where it’s genuinely exhausting to log on and see my posts being pulled apart, misquoted, or stripped of the context they were written in. so let me be very clear, in the most academically honest way i can: i have never claimed that every observation i make is an objective, immutable fact. that’s not how film analysis works, and it’s certainly not how i was trained.

what is factual is the foundation i’m drawing from. i spent nearly six years studying film and television, not casually watching, not guessing, but learning the actual mechanics of visual storytelling. i studied narrative theory, blocking, colour language, character construction, semiotics, editing rhythms, performance direction, and the ways creators embed meaning into the frame. i’ve worked on sets and behind them. i’ve been taught how to read the screen the way you’d read a text in a literature degree: with intention, with craft knowledge, with an understanding of how choices are made and why.

and when i apply that training to stranger things, the craft points in one direction. not because i’m projecting, not because i’m “shipping too hard,” but because the techniques themselves, the framing, the lighting, the narrative parallels, the emotional beats, the visual callbacks, the blocking, the colour theory, all aligned with a byler endgame. that’s not me inventing something; that’s me recognising the patterns i was taught to recognise.

i’m sharing the tools i earned through years of study. i’m sharing the way the craft reads when you’ve been trained to decode it. you’re free to disagree with my conclusions, interpretation is part of the art form, but attacking me for using the education i worked for is unnecessary and frankly disrespectful.

if you don’t like my posts, scroll past. but don’t twist my words or undermine my training just because the analysis doesn’t match your preferred outcome. i’m not claiming omniscience. i’m applying the discipline i studied, and i’m allowed to talk about what the craft communicates.

[unambiguousasign]

it's so funny to me that the more you try to make mike wheeler seem attracted to women the more inherently out of character he is. it's unavoidable. and the duffers experienced that firsthand by needing to reign finn's physicality in, retcon his entire personality, gaslight will, make mike a douche, separate the two of them, make mike take a backseat to everything, and force milkvan to kiss at gunpoint just to even give people the slightest hope he could like jane back. and bro still couldn't even hack it. they had to reduce him to jane's love interest and all that came across was he was not interested in her love

gay mike wheeler you will always be famous i love you i love you i'm so sorry

[hawkinsschoolcounselor]

Do the Duffers even realize how bad their ending is or do they just think we're more noise?

I mean, guys, your finale sucked so much that people crashed Netflix thinking the real ending was dropping.

And does the cast and crew really think it was a good finale? I know that they're contractually obligated to hype it up, but do they not see how it failed to connect with the audience beyond the people like Elon Musk who watch it for "some basic sci-fi"?

They ended up releasing something that only really won props from the conformist mouthbreathers that the show claimed to be against, the people who don't want to look behind the curtain because the curtain brings them comfort, the people who never question anything as long as they're told it's right.

[starchasers-version]

let’s recap how the duffers ended straight storylines versus queer storylines!!!

straight storylines:

joyce and hopper - get their date at enzos, eventually get married and move to new york

lucas and max - end up getting their movie date and the duffers basically say their love continues to strengthen, and that their love is strong and pure

jonathan and nancy - even though they broke up in the show, they had a lengthy and emotional scene sharing their feelings and providing closure, both to them and the audience. i’m pretty sure the duffers said (about their breakup and them needing to find themselves) “it doesn’t mean they can’t come back together”

mike and el - although el dies, they were given an emotional last scene, and the epilogue shows mike struggling to move on

versus queer storylines:

robin and vickie - the duffers say their ending is left ambiguous though it is implied they have broken up, and that high school relationships hardly ever stay together. when the interview mentioned lucas and max, they said they were an exception and it’s different. also, vickie wasn’t even mentioned in the epilogue

will and epilogue boyfriend - not even REAL literally just mike’s imagination. regardless, there was basically 5 seconds of screentime, no dialogue, and an arm touch.

will and mike - after describing will’s feelings for mike as ‘love’ multiple times in interviews, in-show these feelings were reduced to a crush, and although the duffers said in will’s coming out scene mike realised he was will’s crush, this is never actually addressed, and all we got was “friends? no thanks. *pause* ….. best friends!” and this scene wasn’t even initially scripted, it was only added because of noah asking.

so yeah… show about “uplifting outcasts” but sidelines all queer characters and relationships ☹️

[narrativelogicofbyler]

i wasn’t manifesting anything, i was literally analysing the cinematography, the blocking, the colour theory, the narrative beats, all the stuff i was trained to look for during my TV degree. the signs were there because the show put them there.

the duffers absolutely queer baited the audience. everything I learned academically about visual storytelling was pointing toward a byler slow burn, and then they completely abandoned their own setup. we didn’t hallucinate subtext; we didn’t “make up” a ship. they built it, then pretended they didn’t, and the result reeks of homophobia.

they didn’t subvert expectations, they ignored their own narrative groundwork. that’s not clever writing, that’s just bad writing. they tore down a storyline they spent years constructing, and now the overall story makes zero sense.

[illogical-fallacy]

this is the most infuriating part. i studied this for years during my arts MA, have written so very many pages of graduate academic analysis on different performing arts media through various theoretical lenses, and can go through and reference tons of parallels the duffers made to other important works, scenes, and characters in the cinematic canon. yet, none of that applies here, because the story outcomes make absolutely zero sense to the foundations they poured for a decade

it’s almost as if some of the writers, costume designers, and cinematographers so vehemently disagreed with production’s decision to ax byler that they just went full pedal to the metal with the allusions and allegories to demonstrate how insane it is to have produced a slowburn rejection nothing.

[hawkinsschoolcounselor]

The Duffers queerbaited their own production team. They were probably as surprised and disappointed as we were.

[noahschnappinfs]

now let’s talk a bit more about how noah was treated by the duffers. noah has mentioned how he struggled when journalists would ask him about will being gay because they would then also ask personal questions about his sexuality which was very difficult for him since he wasn’t ready in his own personal journey to deal with that. let me remind everybody that noah was a child for most of the time the show was filming.

noah explains that the duffers never sat him down to explain that will was gay which makes it seem like they never put that much thought about developing that aspect of his character. later on, it looks like they all had this silent agreement and understanding since noah noticed like all of us that will was meant to be gay. so here we can see how the duffers just threw him to the wolves because they either wanted to have will’s sexuality as a plot twist which is a very insensitive thing to do or that they were cowards that didn’t want to admit until the last minute that they had a queer main character on such mainstream show so they let a child deal with explaining it. it would’ve been so easy to sit with him and guide him how to answer or even make some sort of statement saying “yes will is written to be gay but he’s still growing up, keep watching to see how his story develops” which wouldn’t expose anything plot wise but would protect their young child actor from invasive questions. now that it’s out in the open, they elevate themselves as proud allies that wanted to make it right for will and noah. now they are finally saying that will was always meant to be gay and it was written in the show’s bible.

i think it was super insensitive to deal this way with will’s sexuality while working with a child actor. at the end of the day, noah being gay just like will is a coincidence. throwing some random child actor to deal with all this shows lack of care and understanding of queer storylines.

now years later, noah came out and had more definitive thoughts about will’s queer arc based on his own experiences being a young gay man. they had him waiting and waiting for it, and when asked if he had any input, he said he didn’t want to overstep which speaks for itself. he also was the one who suggested a scene between will and mike getting some closure because the duffers didn’t think about that at all. noah is the only one who thought that fans who invested their time and energy into that relationship deserved closure as well which also tells me what the duffers think about their fans.

i can’t help but think what would’ve been of will if noah wasn’t gay considering how misguided the duffers seem to be while dealing with queer storylines which shows us again the importance of queer representation in tv productions specially in the writers room because at the end of the day, this weight shouldn’t fall on the actor’s shoulders because they don’t write the show and their real life sexuality shouldn’t matter in the writing if we have writers that are truly committed to the characters.

to end this, i have to say that it’s funny how ross can shade people and respond to rumors on his ig all the time but it was crickets when we had so many homophobes mocking will’s coming out scene (including the owner of a big social media platform) and attacking noah, an openly gay actor that they should try to protect if they truly believe in allyship.

[palarer]

I want to add to this that I started to get suspicious when Noah said he got the bravery to call the Duffers before s5 and say, "Will has been sidelined since s3. What do you have planned for him for this next season?" And then they didnt give him scripts or plot points because they didn't trust him and it was after that apparent call (perhaps not solely due to it but definitely noteworthy) that the Duffers said, "Since we started the show with Will, it made sense to end it with him. And we knew we had a lot of work for his arc, since he wasn't really around in s4... so we structured the mid way point to his story."

My bad faith reading can say that the Duffers may have done a powers reveal but not in the centering way they did for s5 ep 1-4. Because they so easily sidelined him from that point on, despite there being Henry connections and GODDAMN POWERS. And it also makes me wonder if they had to be /reminded/ by Noah of the acting versatility he could show. And he and Charlie also had to have them include the Jonathan and Will "I'll always be there for you" scene in s4 so fuck those two's arcs that season, too, ig.

That + not seeming to understand the impact of Noah's sidelining to his reputation as an actor or his self-confidence as an actor, the invasive qs he would get asked as the FACE of queer representation in the show despite being one of the youngest of the main cast, his bowl cut punching bag reputation by the GA, the reason so many have been invested in Byler, and how Byler fans are treated online .... I don't have much faith in them.

[prismhearts-electric]

I think this probably confirms something very important overall about Byler, as well. Noah saying he was never explicitly told that Will was gay and it just became obvious around s3-s4, tells us that the entire subtext of Mike/Will was never said aloud. My biggest question is whether Finn knows about his own character's intense queercoding; I used to believe that Finn knew what the story really was (Byler), but now it seems like he was kept in the dark about that queercoding and subtext. I wish I could understand Finn but honestly I struggle to comprehend him... But the writing really was on the wall for Byler, they didn't plan to do anything with Will/Mike at all, the show didn't conform, the Duffers didn't bow to Netflix in the end, there isn't a conspiracy, and they didn't even chicken out on a built-up, set-up Byler endgame: No, they simply never had great plans for Will in the first place; they don't even understand queer people enough to realise that 'crushes don't work out and it's okay so move on and find someone else who's actually gay' is an awful message for queer audiences. They really had their one gay character fall for his best friend who was his biggest source of the power of love in the second season, just so he could realise he's gay and then revert all his romantic feelings to platonic feelings - because Mike is straight so oops, that was a mess. But it's all resolved now! It's all back to how it was before Will had those silly, misdirected gay feelings. No, Finn may not have full knowledge of his own character's heavy queercoding, and the rest of the cast is completely oblivious and ignorant of it. The only person who might be in the know, the one person that I think might see us and actually understand what we're talking about: Noah. And I really, really, really wish he could speak to us and honestly tell us what happened.

[palarer]

want to reblog for @prismhearts-electric's commentary here. I can't begin to know what is in Finn's mind either unless he lays it out bare. But the fact that Noah had to figure out Will was gay on his own terms, just from the context clues and coding himself, as the actor who PLAYS Will is insane. He was analyzing the show the same way that we were. He was trying hard to find motivations in his own character in subtext, around the same time he was struggling internally with those own realizations in his head, and then he was proven right without the Duffers ever actually sitting down with him and saying, yeah, Will is gay? It makes sense to me how he would see Byler using that same method, too. but as you pointed out and others have pointed out, the Duffers had no fucking plan past making him a gay boy with an unrequited crush. Which meant that they also emptied motivation from Mike in scenes like the van scene, which were apparently only included to establish Will was gay. They were scenes to develop Will only. They forgot to treat Mike as a character, and even Finn has said in the famous 'it'll pay off' panel answer that he couldn't understand why Mike was not recognizing what is happening in all his scenes with Will. Finn mentioned at the time that he thinks Mike's emotional compartmentalization is probably making him unaware of things that are going on, but I'm not sure what else he conceptualized for how Mike felt about Will in general from the scripts he got. I know Finn recognized Mike was trying to be "normal" and he used to say his dream ending for the character was that he would leave Hawkins-- and now we have reason to believe the Duffers didn't debrief him on those motivations. Or if they did, then they just have a weird thing of not telling Noah about his character. Those things Finn says about Mike alone have queer subtext, but I can't tell if he was making a bigger picture from that. I thought he was from his acting choices, but now I don't know, given how 'fine' he seems with the ending and seemingly not taking Byler seriously. And if Finn is not queer nor used to looking into queercoding (which, given how he's talked about his past actually-gay roles as "brothers", it might be likely he never learned to), that makes it even sadder that Noah was probably actually alone in trying to figure this out, what the end goal of this Byler unrequited love arc could be. And it's sad because if Finn wasn't, and the Duffers were not even trying to, it was a fruitless goal that he alone had to steer the performance, PR, and emotional weight of. All while it was hitting personally for him. The worst thing an author or director can say about a work you're involved in (either directly or through investment as a fan) is that they have no fucking idea what they're doing with it. Or that what they think they're doing with it is so fucking simple and careless and stupid that it makes you stupid for having trust.

[hawkinsschoolcounselor]

If they didn't let Noah in on what was going on with Will, while letting him suffer through all those questions, then I highly doubt they let Finn or anyone else in on it, either. God only know what sort of direction they gave them in those more intimate scenes to make things look that way without them catching on.

I really have to ask myself, if Noah never came out, would Will's gay arc have ended in the van, forever being just implied?

[imaginefirelizards]

guys it's a show about outcasts! a show designed to have clever twists that make sense with the plot but still subvert expectations!

A girl viewed as a weapon, who has had no agency in life decisions so far, finally makes the decision to just give up and kill herself. This supports outcasts as it shows if you're stuck in a cycle of abuse you only have one option to escape it- giving up. This is a plot twist because we're told this is a bad decision earlier in the season by Max.

A girl who grew up in a lab who never learned what she wants in life never actually picks what she wants in life! She never gets to be a normal girl and make her own decisions! This supports outcasts as it shows if you view yourself as different and that you don't belong in society, you're correct!!!! This is a great plot twist as who would have expected the girl who planned to blow herself up will actually blow herself up!

A boy assumed to be straight with little shown emotional depth in the latest season turns out to be straight with little shown emotional depth in the latest season. This supports outcasts because straight white men that that struggle with expressing emotions are underrepresented! They need to get shown that it's not okay to express emotions or open up to anyone! This is a plot twist because they told us to expect plot twists! A double bluff! Also they didn't build up their relationship to be healthy or to have any impact, so it's a twist when he's actually invested in it!!!

Are you feeling like you're a side kick? Do you feel like you don't have much input? Correct! Your only plot in a whole season is supporting others and being reduced to mourning for your love interest (that you had no chemistry with). Oh, wait, no! You also built the bomb that kills her! This supports outcasts as it shows that if you don't believe in your leadership, you are correct! This is a twist because, again, who would have expected this!

The queer boy who was built up as a main character, had to repeatedly suffer, and suffer SA, has very a very minimal role in the final episode other than sympthasing with his abuser. This supports outcasts as it shows you just exist to suffer in silence and take a backseat! You must forgive your abuser only to learn they had agency the whole time! This is a twist because they said it started with him, and will end with him! Surprise!

The queer boy who never believed he would fall in love was correct! He gets to watch other people fall in love! He gets to witness queer joy! He gets his hopes repeatedly raised and destroyed! He gets to support a straight relationship with his own love and feelings! The straight couple can't even have a conversation about it but it's okay because he helps to build it back up, off the back of his own suffering! Don't worry though!! Your straight best friend will imagine you meeting someone in a gay bar, because that's the only place someone like you can be accepted and find love!!! This supports outcasts because if you're in love with your best friend there's no way of it being returned so you better not even mention it!!! This is a great plot twist because an unrequited queer plotline has never been told before!!!!!

A woman of colour who was kidnapped, abused, tortured and watched all of her found family die? She starts off realistically believing the only way to escape is to kill herself. However, just as she is given hope there might be another option in life, she is shot! This supports outcasts because women of colour should just be treated as a shock factor deaths and allowed no further development! This is a plot twist because haha! You thought there was hope for her after all? C'mon :)

A slow burn queer romance? You expected parallels to other queer couples in media to mean anything? You expected parallels between healthy couples in the show and your potential queer couple to mean anything? You expected common fictional tropes to mean anything? You expected parallels between unhealthy couples in your show and your straight couple to mean anything? You expected queer coding to mean anything? This supports outcasts as who needs queer representation anyway? This is a great twist as nobody expects the straight couple with no chemistry or build up to be endgame!!

You want any queer representation? Fine. One queer couple gets together off screen. The queer character's story is used as a blueprint for another queer character's story. The queer couple then breaks up off screen. This helps outcasts by showing that queer characters can only expect to have one type of story and not to expect anything more. This is a twist because everyone expects good varied queer representation on mainstream TV!!!

Neurodivergent representation? Of course! We will have a heavily neurodivergent coded character. We will even show her struggle with sensory issues in season 4! In the epilogue? Oh, we'll just forget about that and put her in frills. This is great outcast representation because who needs consistency in neurodivergent characters :) This is a great twist because who would expect them to remember details about any characters?

A character who had her limbs and eyes snapped who couldn't see after being almost killed becoming disabled? Nope! This empowers outcasts by showing a good way to adapt when you're disabled is to not be disabled at all! This is a great plot twist because no-one would expect this to happen!! Everyone expects disabled representation in shows!!!

The main villain shown to have a sad backstory? He actually chose to be evil all along! This supports outcasts as it shows if you are sensitive and different you can get possessed by an evil sentient mist and choose to work with it! Finally, some characters with agency :) Plot twist? you expected that the play they said would be relevant would actually be relevant? Haha!

The main villain hinted to have secret plans that all have reasoning? You expect there to be hints at this? You expect him to trigger powers in his first "vessel" for a reason? Plot twist: it was all random!!!!

The main villain is expected to be difficult to fight because there have been seasons of build up? The side evil threats (demogorgans/dogs/bats) expected to be hard to fight? Plot twist: the big bad mind Flayer is super easy to kill! The side enemies just vanish! Isn't that fun!

Viewers told to analyse the show? Viewers told all of the details are intentional? Viewers told there are no coincidences? Plot twist: wow!!!! You guys really expected representation for outcasts in a show about outcasts??? You guys analysed details and expected payoff??? How embarrassing for you guys!! How embarrassing that you even cared about the show!!

[hawkinsschoolcounselor]

The disdain for the Byler fandom from the Duffers and others is just insulting. They strung us along for the sake of using Will's pain as a plot device. They could've just shot it down, spared us the trouble, but couldn't because it was still relevant to the plot for people to think it could happen. They had to write it to be believable so that Will would think he has a shot, despite everything that happened in season 4. They had to portray his feelings for Mike were a weakness to be exploited and something that would only ever bring him hurt. They minimized it to a mere crush, likening it to Robin's crush on someone she didn't even actually know.

All the while, Mike was literally in love with a magical girl who he played a role in shaping, but was never able to treat right. But that's meant to be portrayed as beautiful and something to be mourned when El "dies."

I mean, they literally had El tell Hopper that she's not Sara, effectively calling him out (gently) for trying to use her to replace his daughter. He genuinely care for her, but, yes, he was still using her to fill a void in his life.

But Mike's feelings are genuine? When they've compared Mike/El with failed couples multiple times? When he treats her so badly and needs his gay friend, who loves him, to help him sort out his feelings for him and constantly reassure him?

We're just "noise" because we put together the pieces that they handed us?

No.

They shouldn't have disdain for us. We should have disdain for them.

[thatonecrowlover]

The Show's ACTUAL Target Audience

The fact that this episode still has a near 8 star rating is crazy to me. Sure, it's less than other episodes of this season, but considering the fact that this episode was SO much worse than episode 7 and that one is a sub 6 star is very telling.

Turns out the target audience wasn't the outcasts. It wasn't the freaks, it wasn't the queer folk who sought validation. It wasn't for the nerds that would have wrote a better ending (and are writing better endings as you read this. Ao3 is going to be a gold mine for the next few weeks). The show wasn't made for traumatized kids, who could finally see themselves in the characters and feel great when they finally defeat their abuser.

The show was for straight, cis bigots who get off on the idea that they let us have our few crumbs of representation. If you visit the main Stranger Things subreddit you'll see just how out of touch they are. They're celebrating the shit show that the finale was. They're saying it's perfect. They're calling US delusional and stupid.

This isn't me saying you couldn't enjoy the finale. I had some moments I enjoyed myself. But after sleeping on it and having some time to think, it's obvious that objectively (even setting aside Byler, queer representation, message on trauma and how to deal with it and all that) it was shit. That's just facts. The Duffers showed us that they're terrible writers. So many plot holes, so many inconsistencies. Nothing makes sense.

I'm going to be living in fandom spaces now, because whatever the fans come up with is a hundred times better than the canon.

[schnappsource]

Full video of Noah Schnapp discussing Will's coming out scene on the set of Stranger Things 5 29/12/25

via Noah's IG

[hermit-house]

My sweet baby...

[schnappsource]

Noah Schnapp talking about his experience with Will's coming out scene on the set of Stranger Things 5 29/12/25

via Netflix