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Mamo możemy mieć Bogusława Radziwiłła?
Mamy Bogusława Radziwiłła w domu
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Am I the only one who feels like the movie emphasized the good side of Skrzetuski and the bad side of Bohun? Like in the movie we get the honourable nobleman Skrzetuski worrying for his future wife and the murderer kidnapper Bohun. And yes we get that from the book as well, but apart from that we get Skrzetuski constantly postponing looking for Helena, risking her not even being alive later and saying his own matters are not even that important (his own matters being Helena's life or safety), and Bohun ready to give up everything for her and scared af of the possibility of Helena dying.
Nie, jasne, oczywiście, walnij mi ten akapit na ostatniej stronie książki, czemu nie, nie mam nic przeciwko
@xemylixa sorry, I only now have time to respond (and it wouldn't fit in a comment, so I'm reblogging)
What gets me about Bohun and Helena is that we know that they used to be close - once upon a time. We know that Bohun was a very frequent guest at the Kurcewicz household and that he basically grew up with Helena's cousins (who were basically like brothers to her as well) and that Helena and Bohun used to be close as well. We know it mostly from Bohun's words, but Helena's own mercy towards him can be a sign as well and even during her first meeting with Skrzetuski she says something along the lines of how "she's afraid of him ever since he cut a man in half in front of her" if I remember correctly, meaning that there's a specific event that marked the end of their relationship on her side
And frankly for me Bohun's biggest fault is that he doesn't realise/accept this change. Because other than that, he treats her well whenever she's in his hand - the problem is that she doesn't want to have anything to do with him, no matter how he treats her. And I don't know, perhaps my bar is just set really low XD Because we know that there were Polish knights who did not exactly respect Helena's wishes either (there's a specific one mentioned, whose name I don't remember, who wouldn't stop pestering her until Rzędzian lied that she's Jarema's family)
But yeah, as a tragedy lover what gets me about them is the open possibility of what their relationship looked like before the events of the book (was it really as good as Bohun portrayed it? Did Helena always know that her family wants her to marry Bohun? What exactly was this fateful event that made her hate and fear him? What made her forgive him in the end? (Apart from Sienkiewicz not knowing how to write women)) and the possible "what if"s (what if she never started hating him? What if Skrzetuski was more upfront about wanting to marry Helena? What if they waited longer with this decision? What if they had more time? What if Rzędzian and the others didn't get Helena out of Horpyna's gorge? Etc etc...)
But yeah, I perfectly understand not caring about Bohun or not liking him, I'm not denying all the awful things he did and that at times they weren't even treated seriously enough by the narration, that's just my personal approach to his character
My neck got tired of violently nodding along, so I'll say: yes, I agree with your interpretation, and the bits I don't personally agree with I 100% understand! I'm sorry that I can't muster anything more articulate right now, because this writeup deserves better.
Wondering how you'd compare Helena/Bohun to Oleńka/Kmicic after reading Potop, too, because they seem to be explorations of the same archetypes ("girl has boundaries? what are those? will me killing more ppl cure them???").
And I remember noticing how Bohun outright terrified me, while Kmicic mostly made me laugh with his over-the-top disregard for other people.... Until he, too, went DARVO on her, that is. Then it was personal and I couldn't wait for the Wołodyjowski-style ass-handing to happen.
I hate Bohun (as a person not a character; I think he is well written) and i like Kmicic despite their similarities. For me the difference is that Kmicic changes. If he stayed as he was at the start of the story I would hate him too.
Oleńka is in love with him so she protects him but she also can't accept him as he is because it is terrible (they are to me a classic case of love at first sight and so are many Sienkiewicz's couples tbh) and he does horrible things to her to.
But! He actually realises that he was wrong and spends the rest of the story trying to do better (and he does it not just because he wants her to like him but because he truly believes it now). This is what makes him likable.
And Bohun (from what i remember, it has been a while since i read the books and i really need to do it again) never really changes. He never understands why she doesn't love him (he thinks it's because he's not a noble for example).
Also I can't forgive him murdering her family. Yes, it was a pretty horrible family but it was her only family that she still loved in some way and looking her situation from historical perspective they were the only protection she had really. Skrzetuski was far away and she truly was lucky that Zagłoba was there to help her but if he wasn't she couldn't do anything to protect herself from all of Bohun's men. Besides Bohun was loved by Kurcewicze and they have seen him as their family (and he has seen them this way too it would seem. Unless he just wanted Helena and they were the way to get to her). And he just killed them.
I hate him truly
I love Bohun's character, feel sorry for him at the end of the book, and at the same time notice that he is actually a redflag and I would be scared of him as well if I was Helena.
Bohun is an antagonist and he had to be as the Trilogy was written as a way to uplift Polish people during partitions of Poland, making all the Polish characters the heroes and non-Polish characters the villains. And here is the difference between him and Kmicic as Andrzej was a Polish-Lithuanian noble, so he represented the group that was supposed to win (that's why he changed later in the book, got a happy end, and overally was written in a way that people generally like him). Whereas Bohun was a Cossack and had to be the antagonist and overally be portrayed as a negative character for people to hate him. While they basically started as characters doing similar actions (murdering people and kidnapping women they loved).
Bohun did many terrifying things like murdering the Kurcewicz family and kidnapping Helena with telling her that if she wasn't wounded he would force her to marry him today. But something interesting about him is that he is not that "black or white" character and has a positive side to him as well (which was more visible in the book than the movie). In the book, Bohun's attitude towards Helena is sometimes really beautiful, there are moments where its even more touching than Skrzetuski's. I would risk saying that if we compared Bohun's and Skrzetuski's priority lists, Bohun would have Helena higher. And much of that aspect of Bohun was not shown in the movie. While watching the movie adaptation it's easy to take Bohun as just a murderer and kidnapper, wish the best for Skrzetuski and Helena and overally ship them. In the book it's like (at least for me it was like that) you see Helena is the happiest with Skrzetuski and totally understand her and wish the best for her and Jan and are happy for those two but you feel so sad for Bohun seeing how much he cared for her and how important she was for him. Maybe that's why the last look of Bohun in the movie doesn't touch that much as that last paragraph about him in the book. Much of Bohun (like some of his lines and overally his thoughts as the movie can't really portray that) was not shown in the movie and I don't know if I would like this character so much if I didn't read the book.
Bohun's attitude towards Helena aspects in the book that I consider really beautiful:
Bohun considered joining prince Wiśniowiecki's side during the Chmielnicki's uprising because he thought it would be more appropriate towards Helena and her family. He was ready to betray his own people in order to "earn" the right to marry the woman he loved. This shows his priorities very well, contrasting with Skrzetuski's, who put honour and serving the country above anything else, even above his future wife's life. He would never join Chmielnicki's side for her (which would be his equivalent for Bohun's actions).
However, he didn't value the social status he might have been given for fighting among prince Wiśniowiecki during war, he wanted to do that only for Helena. According to Zagłoba, Bohun could become a noble for joining prince's side and fighting against Cossacks. He didn't care about that though. Bohun admitted himself that he wouldn't expect any recompensation for it, he just wanted Helena and that would be enough for him.
Bohun also wanted to be adopted by Zagłoba and by that become a part of Polish nobility, just to be able to marry Helena. He was ready to leave Cossacks (his people with whom he grew up) just for her.
Bohun went looking for Helena even while being wounded. In the scene after Helena escaped with Zagłoba from Rozłogi, Bohun was still in a state that didn't even allow him to sit on the horse and still, he went looking for her while bleeding on the way. Again, contrast to Skrzetuski, who was not even able to go look for her while being completely fine, because he prioritized serving prince Wiśniowiecki and the country (he finally starts looking for Helena at the end of the book which was like a year after he found burned Rozłogi).
Bohun's only one love was Helena, even after she married Skrzetuski and everything was over anyway. Bohun tells Helena in the book that he was never interested in any women before her. Asked by Zagłoba if Helena is the only one girl in the world (Zagłoba trying to suggest him to just leave it like that once they found out about Skrzetuski's letter to Helena), Bohun admitted that she indeed is the only one in the world (for him she was). After the events of the book Bohun chose to rebuilt Rozłogi and spend the rest of his life in the place that reminded him of her and the happier times of his life when she didn't hate him. He never married anyone else. Again, contrast to Skrzetuski, who actually had a crush on Anusia (a character not even shown in the movie) before, but then he saw Helena and changed his mind.
Bohun panicked just at the thought of Helena dying. After the incident at the Bar when he went to save her and then take her to a safe place (for both her safety during war and hiding her from Skrzetuski, it was kidnapping after all not just wanting to keep her safe), when Helena tried to kill herself with a knife, Bohun became so scared she will try to do it again that he changed his behaviour staying away from her in the room or waiting for her consent just to kiss her hand while leaving (and immediately moving away when she looked at him). He was trying to fight his impulsive nature (losing with that once tbh when he said that if she wasn't wounded he would force her to marry him today, but then again he got scared when she lost consciousness and called Horpyna like crazy, to save her, scared he had killed her) in order to keep her safe from killing herself. He even admitted to Horpyna he would prefer Helena to stab him with a knife than herself. It's something you wouldn't really expect from a character who is overally a kidnapper and murderer.
Bohun even considered risking Helena ending up with Skrzetuski just to make sure she will be safe. In the scene when Zagłoba and Wołodyjowski find him in the tavern and they plan the duel, they ask Bohun to tell them where Helena is hidden so in case he gets killed in the duel they can go there and transport her to Skrzetuski. Bohun actually considered that for a moment before he came up with a different idea. It portrays his priorities a lot, showing that Helena's safety was the most important thing for him, even more important than him marrying her at the end. It's something surprising, considering his overally possessive nature that led him to kidnapping Helena and keeping her away from Skrzetuski.
Bohun had moments of agony, crying and wishing he could be Helena's servant just to be able to look at her. In the scene when Rzędzian finds Skrzetuski after he "became friends" with Bohun (actually becoming a double agent), he describes Bohun's behaviour including crying, talking to himself, apologizing to Helena about killing her family, wondering where she is, saying he can't live without her, and wishing he could be her servant just to be able to look at her. Even Rzędzian admitted then that Bohun has to love Helena based on his behaviour. Sometimes I wonder if Bohun actually didn't like his impulsive nature and wished he could be different for Helena, based on him regretting killing Kurcewicz family in this scene and trying to behave calmly in Czortowy Jar as I described before.
Bohun asked Horpyna in Czortowy Jar if Helena would miss him once he leaves for war. Like she hated him, didn't want to see him at all, and he still wondered if she might need him there. He still worried about her despite being rejected so many times.
Actually the whole first chapter of volume two. When Bohun with Horpyna bring Helena to Czortowy Jar. How Bohun was reminding his Cossacks all the time to be careful with the thing where Helena was carried, worrying about her. How he got mad at Horpyna after she suggested giving Helena herbs that would make her sleep for two days (allowing Bohun to do whatever he wanted to her). How he explained he would give his soul and his fame among Cossacks for her, to be able to live and die by her side, not being able to bear the thought he was the reason why she wanted to stab herself.
And I wonder how Bohun's and Helena's relationship was before as well. In the scene after the dinner at Rozłogi when Skrzetuski and Podbipięta are getting ready to sleep and talking with Kurcewicz family's servant, they find out Helena has been hating Bohun since he killed a man in front of her. It means that before she didn't hate him and I wonder what exactly it was like. There is also a moment just before Bohun leaves Czortowy Jar, where he thinks about the past and remembers evenings spent at Rozłogi, how he was describing his trips with Cossacks and how Helena was listening to him interested and excited. I wish we got more about their past.
And I also wonder what would their relationship be like if Bohun never killed anyone in front of Helena and if she never got scared of him.
Bohun's story is overally tragic, considering how he lost what was the most important for him in his life while being a very emotional person, even though it is completely understandable why Helena didn't want him. I consider that last paragraph about Bohun in the book heartbreaking as well, keeping in mind how much he cared, and also how it is the last final proof how important Helena was for him.
You know I had to make one for my favorite trouple
🛡️💞🌹💞⚔️
Zygmunt Madejewski (died before 1887 in Lviv)
In 1884-1885, this very little known Polish artist originating from Lviv made a series of drawings depicting characters of Henryk Sienkiewicz's novel "With Fire and Sword" ("Ogniem i mieczem") for the Polish literary-cultural journal "Ognisko Domowe", which was being published in Lwów (Львів). They were reprinted later also in the separate album in Lviv in 1885 (tintype, 26 cm X 20.5 cm).
Finally, I have found and collected all of them (some of them have never been published before). In the first line our beloved boys: Skrzetuski and Bohun, lower: Helena Kurcewiczówna, kniahini Kurcewiczowa, Rzędzian, Michał J. Wołodyjowski, Jan Onufry Zagłoba, Bohdan Chmielnicki, Longinus Podbipięta and Jeremi Wiśniowiecki.
Wanting to write a fic but worrying for a historical inaccuracy, because the fandom is not fantasy where you can just do what you want
Pov: being a fantasy fan who still doesn't know how she got interested in Trilogy
Shipping Jurko x Helena but then feeling sad for Jan and seeing how happy he, Helena and Zagłoba were at the end of the book so shipping Jan x Helena as well
I'm torn between being happy for Skrzetuski and Helena since their happy end made all the "good" characters happy (Skrzetuski finding out Helena is alive and Zagłoba calling her his daughter was so cute) and being sad for Bohun as he didn't get the chance to change like Kmicic and was a character created just to lose at the end and spend the rest of his life in grief (he cared about Helena so much).
Polish Marauders
Alt version of events that would save everyone plenty of trouble
text from this x
Helenka jest jak "Janie, jak dobrze, że nie musiałam brać ślubu z Bohunem... Janie dlaczego płaczesz?"
Ok ale imagine
- Żeby tato był Bohunem!
- Chciałbym, Jeremka, chciałbym...
Mr. Zagłoba and Bohun are such friends at the beginning of the book
Shipping Jurko x Helena but then feeling sad for Jan and seeing how happy he, Helena and Zagłoba were at the end of the book so shipping Jan x Helena as well