[intersexfeminist]

pinned post can be seen below.

she/her, intersex adult woman with congenital adrenal hyperplasia (diagnosed at infancy). feminist, i believe in transandrophobia, i am anti-transfeminist. choosing to go unnamed on this blog, just call me intersexfeminist bc that's what i am.

i made this blog because i am a bit tired of people using "this is intersex erasure!" as a gotcha to shut down entirely reasonable feminist arguments. most of the time, it's done without actually consulting an intersex person...or women. well, here i am. i'm both.

other things that should help you understand my views:

i do not believe in lesbian separatism or trans exclusion

i am not opposed to salmacians. i believe in bodily autonomy.

i think using bitch in almost all contexts is misogynistic.

i do believe in gender-based socialization & sex-based oppression.

^ i am strongly against bio/gender essentialism and do not believe "gendered behavior" is in any way innate.

i am extremely passionate about being anti-fgm and i openly identify as an fgm victim.

my life partner is a trans man. i talk about these subjects, in part, to serve as a mirror for his own views.

i've been active in local intersex activism since i was ~14. i have been identifying with the label since i knew what it meant.

i do not consider myself a radical feminist.

in part, i also made this blog because i feel like a lot of posts in anti-transfeminist communities are run by people who are somewhat immature and don't have a full understanding of intersex individuals or how being an intersex woman impacts one's view of gender & sex. my hope is to be able to talk about intersex subjects where others cannot.

also, this is a sideblog. i won't say where i follow back from, but it's probably pretty easy to find as the number of intersex feminist women is probably pretty low on here.

[noblackwomannocry]

the idea that praxis involves willingness to date or have sex with someone, regardless of what that's based on (race/gender/whatever) is rapey nonsense. saying that people not wanting to date or have sex with you is discrimination is rapey nonsense. if you sound like you're one removed minority identity away from being an incels.is poster seething that stacies don't want to fuck him... there's no hope for you I'm afraid

[intersexfeminist]

"the idea of a feminist ideology that says there can be no true male feminists and that male socialization runs deeper than what the average person thinks" I see. I don't really agree with that. I used to think the transphobia was their only flaw, but I've been seeing now how bad essentialism can be, even if it's based on gender vs on sex, because it makes it all seem hopeless and doesn't allow any nuances by vilifying the other completely. Terfs will say that "male socialization" can be unlearned, but they don't mean it, and at the root of it is the idea that change isn't possible. And when it comes to trans men, yeah, they're pretty bad I do understand what leads them there and have more empathy for them than the randos who fall down the alt-right pipeline, specially the ones that are trans and deep in self hatred. Ky Schever's article about coming out of the anti-trans movement was very moving and interesting

i actually went ahead and read the ky schevers article before responding to your ask because i figured it would be good to, and to be frank, this article is incredibly good. here's a link to it for my followers to view. i like this a lot; thank you for sending it my way. i think the comparison it draws between ex-gays and detransitioners is solid and very, unfortunately, true.

i think you're absolutely correct in that, even when many radical feminists say they don't believe that socialization is immutable, a lot of them do and simply dance around wanting to say it outright. i've spoken to radical feminists i've agreed with in principle but realized we didn't actually connect that much once i picked apart more of what they stood for. still, i've also met some—largely more trans-sympathetic ones—who viewed socialization the same way i do, as a set of rules forced upon you that you can learn to break. that's honestly why i'm as pro-trans as i am. trans people who choose to live new lives and work themselves out of what they were taught are living proof that socialization is not permanent. i still believe that it can be, at times, much harder to unlearn than people act like it is...but it's not impossible.

i will say my "no true male feminists" stance largely comes from the fact that, in my life, every male feminist i've ever met has been very shallow and often used feminism as a way to make himself look soft and palatable so he could pick up women. that is to say, i am absolutely biased. and i want to be optimistic in that there are absolutely men in this world who do genuinely value women's opinions & see us as equals, but i worry they are few and far between.

thank you for the article & for the asks. you make good points—i agree with you that, in the present day, most radical feminists are women with black & white thinking who don't necessarily believe in everything they say they do. & it's unfortunate, because i still think that radical feminism as an ideology could be improved into something workable. trans discourse really has poisoned a lot of it, though. hopefully that makes sense (and as always, if it doesn't, i am happy to talk more).

[phosphorusab]

So this is the woman who wrote the transmanosphere substack

How are these people not denounced as obvious sexists?

[intersexfeminist]

what do you mean by you having sympathy for radfems (not accusatory)?

i mean that i sympathize with why they feel the way they do about things. i agree with them on some base points—gendered socialization being the main one i can think of—and i can see how living in a patriarchal society would make someone come to the conclusions that they do, even if i don't find myself thinking the same way. i think their ideology can be a bit flawed and absolutely has kinks that need to be worked out, but ultimately i sympathize with their reasoning for holding that ideology. still, i don't think i can fully agree because of those flaws. i feel very similarly about FtM separatists.

i think the main struggle i have is that i am far too in favor of bodily autonomy and the idea that sex/gender are different and disconnected. essentially, i can't really get behind radical feminism because i do think women can transition to men (and vice versa) and nothing is morally wrong with that.

and, as my first post on this says, it's telling that in spite of being "in favor of all women" a lot of radfems i've seen say disgusting, borderline misogynistic things about trans men...who they believe to be women! i shouldn't allow twitter to influence my view of others, i know, but just yesterday i saw a tweet from a gc radfem describing all transmasculine people as perverts who get off on destroying their bodies and it's like...i literally cannot agree with that in any way whatsoever. but in theory i like the idea of a feminist ideology that says there can be no true male feminists and that male socialization runs deeper than what the average person thinks.

[intersexfeminist]

anyway this isn't feminism discourse per se but something i want to soapbox about just a bit, that being my god, i have such an extreme hatred for most "pedophile predator catcher" youtubers of the current age. it's largely white men who see pedophilia as shock content which they can use to gain clicks and upvotes. hardly, if ever, do these men actually treat it like the horrific crime it is. it's more like some sort of horror movie ghoul to them. not to mention the fact that, for most of these channels, they do these sting operations without any assistance from law enforcement, resulting in no actual punishment for these pedophiles. in general i think all instances of crime being turned into essentially an online circus act (and it's not a new thing, i was in the trenches of "TCC" social media a goddamn decade ago) is inherently misogynistic in several ways. i hate it. you will be unable to find someone with as strong of a hatred for true crime content as me.

[intersexfeminist]

in my heart i want to be more sympathetic to radfems but i've seen too many say completely gross things about trans men, even the ones who are genuinely sympathetic to them and are similarly anti-transfeminist. i want to believe there are radfems who aren't this way though, i don't think the whole ideology is a monolith. in part that's why i get the FtM separatist movement and understand why people gravitate towards it - if you feel like both groups are going to hate you equally, might as well carve your own path

[intersexfeminist]

i suppose i am also biased in that i skirt the line a bit. i'm a lesbian in a committed relationship with a trans man, after all.

[intersexfeminist]

in my heart i want to be more sympathetic to radfems but i've seen too many say completely gross things about trans men, even the ones who are genuinely sympathetic to them and are similarly anti-transfeminist. i want to believe there are radfems who aren't this way though, i don't think the whole ideology is a monolith. in part that's why i get the FtM separatist movement and understand why people gravitate towards it - if you feel like both groups are going to hate you equally, might as well carve your own path

[chronic-dysfunction]

"If you are trans masc and still have a connection to womanhood-"

Stop. I can already tell you arent an ally to afab nonbinary people, genderfluid people, agender people, intersex people, and gnc people. Hush and go sit in your heterocisnormative box and reflect. Btw its not "a connection to womanhood" 😃 its called HEALTHCARE and it doesnt stop being needed as soon as our pronouns change. Grow up.

[doriantheincubusprince]

I'm old enough to remember GamerGate and the rise of "Anti-SJW" slop (yes, I know it was only 10 years ago). You know who the cliché "cringe SJW feminist" was? What they painted women and queer people who fought for their rights as, in order to ridicule and silence them?

Pixie cuts. Body hair. Either buff or fat. Violent. No makeup. Deep voice. Small breasts. Usually lesbian. Either a butch cis woman, a trans man, or a trans woman with exaggerated "manly" features like a beard or a cartoonishly pornographic bulge.

But sure, the Patriarchy always rewards masculinity no matter what. Keep believing that.

[notyourtboy]

Genuinely fucking evil how acknowledging the very concept of the oppression of people AFAB is enough to get you dismissed and derided as a bigot. Its literally an objective, indisputable fact that 99.99% of misogynistic oppression is targeted at people AFAB with the specific intent to control uteruses / reproduction and have us sexual objects. There is no argument here.

Actual fucking male supremacists have utterly dominated the trans community and made it so that acknowledging this basic fact is grounds to silence, harass, and abuse you.

And then they turn around and invent a special category of oppression that apparently only affects people AMAB and act like that's not straight up MRA incel shit.

If you believe in AMAB-exclusive oppression but think believing that people AFAB are oppressed is bigoted, you're a misogynist and a male supremacist. I don't value your opinion or perspective on anything.

[trans-masked]

Obviously “the transmasc voices project” is a load of troll horseshit but it’s funny how many people are just self reporting

Like yeah… someone who is drunk cannot consent to sex and has every right to call that assault, especially if the other person isn’t drunk. Has this happened to you a lot yay-bunnies? It’s interesting that this thought occurred to you.

[trans-masked]

All I’m saying is that there has *never* been a branch of feminism this concerned about false allegations. There has never been a group of people who truly believed they were the end all be all of feminism who thought that believing survivors was bigotry.

[hellofmychoice]

It’s really funny when people will call transmascs and our allies MRAs for talking about how misogyny and transphobia affect transmasculine people. The whiplash from hearing that then actually encountering MRA and incel content and the distain for “females” and queer people they have. Also yeah sure, *I’m* the MRA says the person who believes people raised as girls are coddled and that “false” SA allegations ruin people’s lives.

[intersexfeminist]

i still don't fully understand why people act like believing in gendered socialization means you think socialization is immutable. no, by believing in "male socialization" i am not saying "every single person socialized as male is hard-wired to behave one way and cannot learn a new way to behave." infact, believing in the latter is actually closer to bioessentialism than any actual socialization argument. all i'm saying is that when you are raised as male, you are socialized as male, and that comes with different learned behaviors than someone raised & socialized as female. you can, however, very easily replace those learned behaviors with new ones. i implore you to do so, in fact.

[intersexfeminist]

i saw a post on my dashboard a bit ago arguing against the socialization belief, written by a trans woman. it opened with "my bad for not transitioning when i was five years old, i guess." & it baffled me because of how much it missed the point of what socialization belief is actually saying.

transition does not stop someone from having gender-socialized behavior. acknowledging those behaviors and making a concentrated effort to learn new ones does. it is why there are trans women who believe they are entitled to speak over others and self-victimize and use MRA rhetoric; it is why there are trans men who believe their duty is to shut up and take it. neither of those behaviors are coded in to men or women or anyone. they can be changed.

why is "society forces those viewed as male and those viewed as female to interact with the world in different ways, based upon their sex" so controversial? we used to see this as a basic building block of feminism.

[absolutebirth]

yeah I think it's essential to bring us back to a grounding of what gendered socialization actually means-- it's a term which really gives a lot more agency to people living under the patriarchy because it acknowledges the situation and, from there, you can work to change it. the way that socialization has become this "original sin" for male people is really harmful both bc it demonizes the rhetoric of socialization (which is of course a cornerstone of feminist theory + praxis) but also because it ignores the effect of gendered socialization on women, making it into a good/evil axis when it's actually a much more complex thing.

unlearning the harmful aspects of gendered socialization is so essential for both sexes if any of us want to live a good life. imo one of the most essential -- and joyful-- parts of being a feminist woman is unlearning the passivity of female socialization. we were socialized to put other's needs before our own, to be alienated from our bodies, to accept other's beliefs as our own, to be doormats and conflict avoidant, to accept 'safety' from men at the expense of autonomy or righteousness, to be willfully incompetent at the "male sphere" etc. it is rewarding work to unlearn those, but it's also just plain old work. that's why feminists in the 80s were reading books called, like, "the women's guide to saying no" and writing things like "our bodies, ourselves".

likewise the experience of unlearning male socialization is rewarding work-- when male socialization teaches boys to bury their feelings, take out their anger on others (especially women), be willfully incompetent at the "female sphere," put their needs before other's, never be vulnerable, etc, unlearning male socialization allows men to engage more deeply and compassionately with much of the world and opens up the potential for loads of really rewarding relationships and ways of being in the world.

the feminist theory of socialization can be a castigating tool, since gendered socialization causes both men and women to behave in toxic ways (all those trad wives who are seemingly mindless parroting their husbands' views on sex roles and white supremacy? female socialization)-- but it's a much more functional theory when it comes with a corollary imperative + invitation to unlearn! this, at its best, is what things like domestic abuse intervention groups do: they invite men who have harmed others (+ themselves) by acting out toxic male socialization to interrogate that socialization and to improve themselves. most men, especially most men who want to be feminists, are not at the point where they are outright abusive: if the task of accepting the negative impacts of their socialization on themselves and others, and then working to change that, is smth convicted abusers can and do undertake, your average joe on the street certainly can.

for so many of us, our self hatred is an aspect of gendered socialization. women are taught to hate their bodies, their minds, men are taught to hate their emotions and need for reciprocal intimacy: we are all forced to walk a very narrow path. when you start to unlearn the gendered expectations you internalized as a child, the whole world opens up to you! there's a lot of self-love available there.

[intersexfeminist]

re: my posts on socialization since i actually missed a point i have wanted to talk about.

i don't understand the argument of "well, i wasn't [fe]male socialized because, when i didn't act like a Proper Boy/Girl, i got bullied/abused/mocked." like...yes? that is, inherently, socialization. if you were perceived to be male, but did not exhibit properly male behavior and were thus punished until you did, that is quite literally male socialization at work. so you were mocked until you displayed the male behavior that society expected of you? maybe we have a term for this, i'm not sure though.

[imwiremother]

the post that goes "tumblr loves to subvert something thats already subverted and just end up with the thing again" is sadly what is being done on here among progressives about rape culture

[trans-masked]

“#it’s interesting how accusations of intersexism never get levied at people taking about male bodies… i wonder why?”

I’ve seen the term Müllerian recommended more and more frequently as a replacement for AGAB language, but I still had to go out of my way to learn what the equivalent (Wolffian) is called :/

The thing is I promise you the second these terms become part of the average trans persons vocabulary they’ll somehow become reductive and bigoted social concepts again. It isn’t intersex people pushing for this either, it’s anti-feminists who get uncomfortable and demand we change up any language that gets close to acknowledging the different ways society treats people based on their sex class.

[intersexfeminist]

hope you're okay with me commenting on this post because i'm going to do so and echo the statement of "it's not intersex people pushing for this either." because you're absolutely correct, it is not.

speaking as an intersex woman who is already exhausted by the manner in which transfeminists have co-opted and continue to misuse cafab/camab, terms we created in response to the misuse of afab/amab, i am sick of the language changing. every intersex peer i have, too, is tired of it. müllerian and wolffian work entirely fine as addendums to assigned [fe]male at birth, but no intersex person you speak to will demand they serve as replacements.

what really needs to happen is that more people should acknowledge that being assigned [fe]male at birth, being viewed as [fe]male by society, and identifying personally as [fe]male are all separate concepts.

but back to the main point, yes, accusations of intersexism do get thrown at discussions of "female" bodies & genitalia at a far higher rate. misogynists love to use us as a shield against feminist arguments that they dislike.

[transmascfeminism]

Editing my reblog to add my tags and @arseniccattails's really good comment to the body of the post.

Me: Absolutely agree with trans-masked here btw; I'm not calling anything 'Mullerian' or 'Wolffian' because that will just make our concepts incomprehensible to the average person, in exchange of absolutely no benefit, since as soon as those terms spread enough antifeminists will just say they're also bigoted anyway. It's all just a ploy to get us to stop speaking about sex based oppression by people who either don't experience it at all, or experience it conditionally, to a lesser extent, and not from birth, so they are in a position to explain it away with other factors ("it's because of (trans)gender identity", "it's because of femininity", "it's because of medical transphobia and bigotry against sex changes", etc.).

Arseniccattails: "I think it would be helpful for more people to know and use the term 'euphemism treadmill'. It is the *topic* that's got the focus here, and no amount of pivoting language will ever change the baseline condition that, for whatever reasons, some people do not want anyone to talk about the topic. (Most of the time I think this is a reflexive discomfort leading to avoidance over conscious malice.)"