Be so fucking for real right now.
You literally have no substance to your arguments, no actual concrete research into what shifting is, what it entails, the premise, the diversity of opinions, the various philosophical discussions regarding shifting. None. You didn't read a single thing beyond your own biased assumptions.
You just decided, like every other braindead anti-shifter, to look up a couple posts, see some that you took out of context, and then boom - delicious hasty generalization fallacy à la "look, these people are crazy!" "It's fucking lucid dreaming!" "You're escaping and disconnecting yourself from reality!"
"I'm going to confront you with reality."
You do realize that shifters are vast, right? Students, philosophers, occultists, spiritualists, psychologists - we all come in various shapes and sizes. We're not a monolith. But nooo! An uneducated, petulant loser who "dabbles in spirituality" here and there and literally just started lucid dreaming last week is going to show us the truth. AHHHH, thank you so much, oh wise one who's been conscious of their dreams for approximately five minutes!
You admitted yourself you "recently got into lucid dreaming" and then "unfortunately discovered shifting" - meaning you've been in the consciousness exploration game for what, a week? Two weeks max? And you already think you're qualified to make universal pronouncements about phenomena people have been experiencing, studying, and theorizing about for years?
Who the fuck let this child speak?
Sweetie, you are way too young, way too uneducated, and way too inexperienced to be making such arguments and saying "I will confront you with the truth." You've barely scratched the surface of your own subconscious through beginner lucid dreaming and you think that qualifies you to debunk entire metaphysical frameworks?
"IT'S JUST LUCID DREAMING"
You keep screaming this like it's some profound revelation. It's not. It's the most predictable, tired, recycled take in the entire anti-shifting playbook. Every single person who knows nothing about shifting says this exact same thing.
And you know why? Because lucid dreaming is the only altered state you've ever heard of. It's the only tool in your incredibly limited toolbox, so you just start smashing everything with it hoping something sticks.
Here's what you clearly don't understand:
Lucid dreaming has been extensively studied. We know its limits:
REM-state phenomenon - tied to specific sleep cycles
Unstable - environments shift, physics don't work consistently
Subconscious-driven - heavily influenced by your memories and expectations
Limited duration - typically minutes, maybe an hour
Partial control - you can manipulate things but it's not absolute
Dream logic - things don't have to make sense
No external information - you can't learn things you didn't already know
Researchers like Stephen LaBerge, Allan Hobson, Ursula Voss, and Antti Revonsuo have documented all of this extensively. These are the actual limits of lucid dreaming according to science.
Shifting reports consistently describe:
Full sensory immersion - temperature, texture, taste, smell, pain at CR levels
Stable environments - consistent physics, geography, timelines
Autonomous characters - people who surprise you, disagree with you, have their own motivations
Extended duration - days, weeks, months, even years in DR time
Coherent logic - things make sense according to that reality's rules
Information retrieval - details you didn't know, languages you couldn't speak
No omnipotent control - you can't just wish things into being like in a dream
These are fundamentally different phenomenological profiles.
But you wouldn't know that. Because you haven't done the reading. You barely understand your own dreams and you're out here trying to categorize everyone else's consciousness experiences.
The arrogance is fucking astronomical.
"YOU'RE DISCONNECTING FROM REALITY, THIS IS HARMFUL"
I agree that there is some very harmful and toxic rhetoric within the shifting community. Yes. Absolutely. Is that an excuse for you to act like a fucking braindead, uneducated individual who just discovered consciousness last Tuesday? No.
Your moral panic about "disconnecting from reality" is embarrassing and reveals how little you know about human history.
Every single known culture on Earth has developed practices involving altered states of consciousness:
Shamanic traditions - from Siberia to the Amazon to Africa, shamans have practiced "soul flight" or journeying to other worlds to obtain knowledge, communicate with spirits, or facilitate healing. Anthropologists have documented these as structured, repeatable altered states with consistent inner geographies. Not random chaos. Not delusion. Structured experiences passed down through generations.
Tibetan Buddhism - developed detailed systems of Dream Yoga where practitioners train to remain aware in dreams and use them as paths to awakening. They literally treat dream reality as a meaningful domain of experience. The Bardo Thödol (Tibetan Book of the Dead) is an entire manual for navigating intermediate states of consciousness between death and rebirth, assuming consciousness can move through entirely different experiential realities.
Islamic mysticism - Sufis describe heavenly ascent experiences and traversing spiritual realms through altered consciousness.
Hindu traditions - the Upanishads describe multiple lokas (realms) accessible to consciousness. Yogic practices involve accessing subtle body states beyond ordinary awareness.
Christian mysticism - mystics like Teresa of Ávila described rapture states where consciousness enters entirely different experiential domains.
The Eleusinian Mysteries - ancient Greeks accessing profound altered states through ritual.
Indigenous vision quests - across cultures worldwide, structured practices for accessing non-ordinary consciousness.
This isn't some TikTok trend. This is a human universal.
Cross-cultural anthropology has documented this for over a century. Psychology distinguishes between pathological dissociation and culturally sanctioned, structured altered states. Shamanic "soul flight" has been studied in neuroanthropology as an adaptive, ritualized altered state, not automatically as psychosis.
You're not calling modern shifters delusional. You're accidentally calling thousands of years of human spiritual practice across every continent "bullshit" because it doesn't fit your tiny worldview.
If you're going to say all of that is just "people disconnecting from reality," then own that massive claim. Own that you're dismissing millennia of human experience because you personally don't understand it. Don't pretend you're just being "rational."
SHIFTING INSCRIBES ITSELF INTO PERENNIAL PHILOSOPHY
And this is what you fundamentally don't get. Shifting isn't some random internet phenomenon. It inscribes itself into this perennial philosophy people have had since the dawn of time - that there is something else out there, that alternate states of consciousness exist, that reality is more than what we see in ordinary waking life.
Calling these traditions "proto-shifting" is a stretch, yes - they're not exactly the same thing. But shifting inscribes itself in the same logic, the same evolution and amalgamation of spiritual beliefs that humanity has explored forever:
Consciousness is not bound to one body or timeline
Multiple realities, dimensions, or planes exist simultaneously
You can access these through altered states
Subjective experience is as real as physical reality
Belief and intention shape what you experience
These concepts appear across time, geography, and culture because they touch on something fundamental about consciousness and existence.
Philosophers have been grappling with this forever:
Spinoza's monism - everything that exists is one infinite substance. Mind and matter are just different attributes of the same reality. Deus sive Natura - God or Nature. This means consciousness is not separate from reality. They're expressions of the same fundamental substance.
LOA (Law of Assumption/Attraction) is built on this foundation. When LOA says "we are God" or "consciousness creates reality," it's not random self-help bullshit. It's structurally compatible with Spinoza's metaphysics. If consciousness is an expression of the infinite substance, and that substance IS reality, then consciousness has creative power within that reality.
Shifting fits perfectly into this framework. You're aligning your consciousness with a different configuration of the infinite substance. Different timeline, different reality-branch, but all part of the same totality.
But you wouldn't know any of this. Because you've never studied Spinoza. You've never studied metaphysics. You think "spirituality" is just vibes and crystals and maybe reading tarot when you're bored.
You're spiritually cosplaying, not comprehending.
WILLIAM JAMES & THE FILTER THEORY
Then there's William James and Henri Bergson who argued that the brain doesn't create consciousness - it filters it. The brain acts as a "reducing valve" that limits access to a much wider field of mind. Aldous Huxley later developed this into his theory of consciousness.
If that's even approximately correct - and it's a serious philosophical position taken by major thinkers - then shifting could be understood as changing the filter. Altering what "bandwidth" of consciousness you're accessing. Opening the valve to tune into different experiential configurations.
This is a legitimate framework in philosophy of mind.
You don't have to agree with it. But you can't honestly act like it's just "stupid bullshit" when major philosophers have argued for it.
"SCIENCE ISN'T ABLE NOR WILL BE ABLE TO EXPLAIN EVERYTHING"
And here's the thing you really don't want to hear: science is limited. It can't explain everything, and it never will be able to explain everything.
Science can't even explain consciousness itself.
The "hard problem of consciousness" - how does subjective experience arise from physical matter? Why is there something it's like to be you? Why do you experience the "redness" of red instead of just processing wavelengths?
Science has no fucking answer. Zero. Zilch. Nada.
Neuroscience can map correlates - "when this brain region activates, people report this experience" - but that's correlation, not explanation. We can see what the brain does. We have no idea how that becomes subjective experience.
So demanding "scientific proof" of shifting when science can't even explain your normal waking consciousness is fucking ridiculous.
And here's what really matters: there are thousands upon thousands of experiences that correlate with what people refer to as shifting.
You know how we know it's not "just lucid dreaming"? Because yes, spoiler alert, we know based on deep studies what you can and cannot do in lucid dreams, what you can and cannot feel while lucid dreaming.
Lucid dreaming research has documented its boundaries. Shifters consistently report experiences outside those boundaries:
Sensory fidelity beyond REM dream parameters
Timelines extending far beyond typical dream duration
Information they couldn't have known
Consistency and stability beyond dream logic
Autonomous characters with genuine independence
You can't just wave all of that away with "it's lucid dreaming" when the actual science of lucid dreaming doesn't support that claim.
"YOU'RE NOT SHIFTING, YOU'RE REMEMBERING" - YOU MOCKED THIS BECAUSE YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND METAPHYSICS
When people say "you're not shifting, you're remembering," they're working from a specific metaphysical framework. In multiverse theory, in nonlocal consciousness models, in certain perennial philosophies, memory isn't just neurological. It's informational continuity across instances of self.
If all possible timelines exist simultaneously (many-worlds quantum interpretation), then a version of you where you're at Hogwarts already exists. You're not "creating" that reality. You're not "traveling" to it in a physical sense. You're aligning your awareness with a version of you that already exists there.
So "remembering" isn't literal memory in the brain sense. It's consciousness recognizing/accessing another instantiation of itself.
You can disagree with this framework. But mocking it with "dude what the fuck??" just reveals you don't even understand what's being claimed.
That's not skepticism. That's ignorance throwing a tantrum.
"DON'T LISTEN TO PEOPLE TELLING YOU YOU'RE DELUSIONAL"
And then you clutch your pearls about this line like it's "evil."
Of course shifters tell each other not to listen to people calling them delusional. Because people like you exist. People who know absolutely nothing about shifting, haven't experienced it, haven't studied consciousness theory, haven't read the philosophy, haven't engaged with the historical context - but are so fucking confident in dismissing it all as "crazy."
Clinical delusion has a specific definition: a fixed false belief not amenable to change in light of conflicting evidence, typically symptomatic of mental illness.
Acknowledge we might be wrong (not fixed)
Constantly engage with criticism and refine our understanding (amenable to change)
Don't meet criteria for mental illness
Actively practice reality testing - we're better at distinguishing reality than most people precisely because we train for it
We do reality checks. We set intentions. We maintain awareness of what reality we're in. That's literally the opposite of delusion.
You know what's closer to "fixed false belief"? You confidently declaring shifting is impossible when you don't understand the metaphysics, haven't experienced it, can't disprove it, and refuse to engage with any evidence that challenges your assumptions.
Your certainty despite ignorance is closer to delusion than anything shifters are doing.
"IF YOU'RE GOING TO PUT YOUR BULLSHIT IN MY FACE, I'M GOING TO CONFRONT YOU WITH REALITY"
No, babe. You came into OUR spaces. You admitted you "discovered" shifting - meaning you went looking for it. Nobody forced you to read shifting content. You chose to seek it out, got mad about what you found, and decided to play thought police.
We post in the anti-shifting tag because you won't stay out of ours. You invade our spaces, mock our practice, and then cry when we respond.
And you're not "confronting us with reality." You're confronting us with:
Your personal beliefs about consciousness (not proven)
Your limited understanding of metaphysics (embarrassingly shallow)
Your assumption that your experience is universal (it's not)
Your unwillingness to engage with actual arguments (intellectual laziness)
That's not reality. That's your opinion.
Consciousness is not fully understood by science (hard problem remains unsolved)
Quantum many-worlds is a legitimate interpretation proposed by physicist Hugh Everett in 1957, still debated today
Subjective experience is real even without objective proof (love, pain, qualia all exist but can't be "proven" to others)
Lucid dreaming was dismissed as impossible until the 1970s when researchers developed tools to measure it - now it's accepted as real
Thousands of people report shifting experiences with remarkable consistency across cultures and communities
No one has definitively disproven shifting (it's currently unfalsifiable, just like many consciousness claims)
Your lack of understanding ≠ impossibility
WHO THE FUCK LET THIS CHILD SPEAK?
Let's be absolutely clear about what you just did:
You literally just started lucid dreaming. You're in week one, maybe week two of becoming aware in your dreams. You're basically a consciousness exploration infant. And you saw one thing you didn't understand (shifting), immediately decided it threatened your tiny worldview, and appointed yourself the arbiter of what's real.
The audacity is breathtaking.
You have no lived experience beyond beginner LD. You have no academic background in consciousness studies. You have no philosophical training. You haven't studied anthropology, you haven't read the history, you haven't engaged with the theories. You "dabble" in spirituality the way someone "dabbles" in French by learning "bonjour" and calling themselves bilingual.
And yet you're here, lecturing people who have:
Years of experience navigating altered states
Academic backgrounds in relevant fields
Deep study of philosophy, metaphysics, and consciousness theory
Actual shifted experiences that you've never had
You are not qualified. You are not an authority. You are not the voice of reason.
You're a child screaming in a conversation between adults, demanding to be taken seriously because you learned one vocabulary word.
Read Spinoza. Read Bergson. Read William James. Read the anthropological literature on altered states. Read the philosophy of mind debates. Read the actual neuroscience of lucid dreaming so you understand its limits. Read SOMETHING beyond your own assumptions.
Then - and only then - try again.
Because right now? The only thing you're debunking is your own credibility.
You're not confronting us with reality. You're confronting us with the exact dimensions of your ignorance.
And frankly? We're bored.
Come back when you've actually learned something. Until then, keep your half-assed, one-week-old consciousness exploration to yourself and stop embarrassing yourself in public.
jacobvanloon
izzy806
turnnoffyourmind
andulkaphoto
prguitarman
titsay
stormborns
