🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️🇵🇷I got into the Silmarillion and I created a new blog in order to organize my new hyperfixation. Here's a rundown of my stan list and biases so you know what to expect (@virtual-dragon-almond-bakery is me!) as my blog title says Frodo and Elwing did nothing wrong.
IF YOU ARE GOING TO BE RUDE TO ME, I AM GOING TO BE EVEN RUDER. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED. It's okay to disagree with some of my opinions, but do it NICELY. I have been rereading Tolkien, so please don't explain very basic parts of canon to me.
I am a Morwen, Éowyn, Elwing and Fëanorian stan, I love all of them.
Frodo and Sam are my favorites!
I'm very aware that Fëanor has plenty of faults, I am saying he got a shitty deal from life. Also, I don't care that he did all of that, I just think he's enjoyable.
Nienor really didn't do anything wrong though.
I don't really like Thingol and I am now neutral towards Dior, though I do enjoy some of Thingol's funnier moments. The real crime is that Dior only gets ONE funny moment.
Yes, I WILL talk about racism in Tolkien's books displayed by characters.
I multiship!
I AM STARTING A REREAD and watching the movies and Rings of Power to torture myself.
I first read this series in 2022-2023 so my takes are relatively new. I try to search around for very old graphics to reblog.
I tag triggers, so if anyone wants a new one, I'll add it. It can be silly stuff like Sean Bean if that's triggering to you, I'll add it anyways
I am here for funsies, it's not serious, I just use swear words a lot.
In the context of me reading Tolkien and the Great War by John Garth, most Silm discourse just becomes even more hilarious. Like the Elwing and Earendil hate especially (ok let’s be honest, mostly the Elwing hate). Like did y’all know that Earendil was the first character that Tolkien ever actually came up with?? He’s been writing about Earendil since he was a fucking teenager, he is obsessed with Earendil, this is his special little guy. Like for Tolkien Earendil represents freedom and beauty and courage and godliness. In this context acting like what m and m did in sirion is in any way justified is hilarious and if Tolkien loves earendil do you really think he would despise Elwing? Here’s something else though, we all know that luthien is based off of his beloved wife with but did you know that elwing was too??? Elwing the white, the saintly the beautiful, the last queen if fallen doriath was based off of beloved Edith, and y’all act like it’s cannon that she’s a raging bitch.
Something else interesting, a lot of maeglin stans have this view of gondolin as this like evil, cruel place, but gondolin was also the first city that Tolkien ever wrote about from the silm, and he saw it as this incredibly, beautiful, holy place.
Like… I’m not saying that different interpretations of a very much unfinished manuscript are not allowed, of course they are, and you’re even allowed to diverge from what Tolkien was actually going for with his writing but I think before y’all do this you need to at least understand what these stories were actually about. A lot of silm fans these days haven’t even read the silm, just fic of it and that’s extremely sad to me. Before you start coming up with your own Fannons of this story, please actually read and understand this beautiful book first
I’ve said this before, but I think the readings of Deadbeat Dad Earendil and Bad Mom Elwing are the result of dramatic changes in cultural norms about parenting.
Elwing and Earendil are hardly outliers in Tolkien’s portrayal of parents! For instance, in the early drafts of the Fall of Gondolin, Idril gives 7 year old Earendil to her soldiers and tells them to flee, while she stays behind, intending to die fighting:
“….Idril wept for lack of tidings from Tuor. At length she had sped the most part of her guard down the secret way with Earendel, constraining them to depart with imperious words, yet was her grief great at that sundering. She herself would bide, said she, nor seek to live after her lord; and then she fared about gathering womenfolk and wanderers and speeding them down the tunnel, and smiting marauders with her small band; nor might they dissuade her from bearing a sword.”
Idril and Tuor’s relationship is portrayed in feudal terms: Idril wants to die fighting for her lord like a good retainer should. I can already hear the wailing from the Elwing haters: Idril was selfish for wanting to die in battle and for abandoning her son!
I’m fascinated by this passage, as well as the story of Rian leaving her newborn with the elves to go die on her husband’s grave. Because it’s evidence of a cultural shift: we’ve moved from thinking of women as subordinate to their husbands to thinking of them as subordinate to their children.
And no, I don’t buy that it’s simply about higher standards of child welfare, because the hate is still very gendered. Maedhros isn’t even mentioned in the Silm as a caretaker of the twins—only Maglor is—but he typically gets credit for raising them anyway.
The most disturbing thing to me about the Eärendil and Elwing hate is the lack of empathy for them.
They are first time teen parents (in elven terms they are teenagers), whose own parents have either been killed (Elwing) or fucked off to Valinor for not even a very good reason (Eärendil). Eärendil actually has a good reason to be trying to find Valinor. Bro is on a quest from a literal god, that's why he's out at sea. This isn't Tar-Aldarion neglecting his duties to his kingdom and wife to go sailing. It's not his fault the quest text was too vague and didn't tell him he needed to have the Silmaril in order to find Valinor.
If Elwing and Eärendil make mistakes as parents those mistakes aren't really their fault: they are barely adults themselves. They have been thrown into this situation by forces beyond their control, but in the control of Maedhros and Maglor. Maedhros did not have to let Celegorm persuade him to attack Doriath. The Oath does not require them to be dumbasses, and Maedhros is a better general than this. But clearly Fingon's death wreaked havoc on Maedhros' psyche, such that he is not able to make good choices at this moment.
For that matter, Celegorm of all people ought to have known better than to think even without the Girdle that Doriath was defenseless. He should have know exactly what he was getting into when he picked a fight with Dior, and ought to have not done it. Out of all the Fëanorians he was he most familiar with what Dior might be capable of, since he had raised and trained Huan. Sure, he's quick to anger... but again, he's not an idiot. This IS the same elf who commanded the Dagor nuin Giliath successfully when Maedhros had stomped off to sulk and Fëanor had rushed ahead to 1v1 Morgoth.
So if Elwing and Eärendil aren't good parents, it's the fault of the Fëanorians in the first place. And if Maglor is an exceptionally good parent, it's only the least he can do to make up for the injustice he had already committed against them before they were even born.
If you all want a proxy for your own shitty moms, Morwen exists. She canonically tells her SEVEN YEAR OLD not to cry for his little sister. Why you need to pick on Elwing?
Hey, so I know that you meant this in good faith (or I hope so) but I do feel that you have dreafully missed the point of this post.
For one thing, we have no idea whether Elwing and Earendil are "teen parents or not". We can assume that they are probably quite young, but the nature of elven ageing is never specified in the Silm, and anyway, I don't think that their ages matter at all to their story, and definitely not to my original post.
Next, I really don't like the way that you talk about Idril in your post. "fucked off to Valinor for not even a very good reason", so that's how we're talking about women and motherhood on a post about the way that women and motherhood are mistreated within the fandom? Really? I think they absolutely had good reason to "fuck off to valinor" they did because they were in love, and they aren't the only ones who give up things for love within the Silm, I think this is a very good reason to do what they did.
"If Elwing and Eärendil make mistakes as parents those mistakes aren't really their fault: they are barely adults themselves." what mistakes did they make? Where? I don't think they made mistakes at all. And calling them barely adults is such a demeaning way of speaking about two characters who are considered both quite possibly the main hero and one of the main heroins of the Silm. This is the way that people talk about Elwing when they don't like her but don't want to be seein as sexist while it is ironically quite a sexist way of speaking of her (not calling you sexist, I don't know you or your values, but this way of talking about Elwing is very prevelent in the fandom, and I don't like it.)
"if Maglor is an exceptionally good parent" Is he? I know that love grew between them but is he a good parent where previously you called Earendil and Elwing bad parents? (you did say "if" so maybe this was ust a thought experiment but it is still weird"
"If you all want a proxy for your own shitty moms, Morwen exists." and now we are back to the whole women being subordinate to their kids. I don't think Morwen is a shitty mom. Not sure why someone has to be a shitty mom in this story which is not really about that.
You are more than entitled to your own opinions, but I urge you to make your own post if you need somewhere to put these opinions instead of jumping on mine and derailing the whole thing.
the emptiest apologies you can imagine. melkor/nienna. I will reblog with an addition outlining some details I really enjoyed adding, linguistic lore easter eggs and otherwise.
if anything the person who “abandoned” Elrond and Elros was Eärendil, but the fandom paints Elwing with the “abandoned their family” narrative moreso than Eärendil. For Some Reason That We May Never Understand
worst part everrrrr of being a girl character enjoyer is trying to find enjoyerposts but then it's all "it's so fucked that no one likes The Character and everyone's stupid and evil cause they overlook her for the popular blokes" and no actual The Character posting. 1. you're killing our girl's PR, if you vocally hate everyone who likes the more popular stuff then you're not gonna persuade any of them and no one will want to touch The Character with a ten foot pole because they think her fanclub wants to beat them with hammers, 2. you're still not actually talking about her I'm going to scream and cry
Back here to post something and it's about Thingol's language ban: I'm going to be frank, I'm not Thingol's biggest fan or something but I don't it was cultural violence or oppression etc. he only targeted his fellow Sindar in the ban 😭
I'm reblogging because I have gotten way too invested in this poll.
So: Túrin. A list of reasons he is doomed by the narrative, in order of how important I think they are:
He is doomed by an in-universe curse, which was set upon him by Morgoth, the root cause of all evil in Tolkien's legendarium;
his death is explicitly mentioned in the foreword to the Silmarillion;
his story was deliberately written to echo the Finnish tragedy of Kullervo while still fitting Tolkien's legendarium (it was originally based on a tragedy, from his very first imaginings!)
the readers know that his story contains elements from three tragedies before even reading it ("Sigurd the Volsung, Oedipus, and the Finnish Kullervo"), in all bar one edition of the Silmarillion;
if he didn't bring tragedy to all around him, the rest of the Silmarillion would simply not occur, as the fall of Nargothrond and Doriath would likely be averted (Doriath only got the Nauglamir as a direct result of Hurin seeing Turin dying in the way he did, for one);
his choices were... not great. He became an outlaw in self-imposed exile from Doriath, which had been his home for years, because he had accidentally killed an elf that made jibes about his family, despite the king of Doriath being his foster-father. And so on. There's definitely some arrogant pride in there, like every good tragic character that dooms themselves.
Supporting quotes below the cut.
1: In-universe curse
In brief,
Then Morgoth cursed Húrin and Morwen and their offspring, and set a doom upon them of darkness and sorrow;
Morwen, daughter of Baragund, was the wife of Húrin, Lord of Dor-lómin; and their son was Túrin,
Both quotes from the Silmarillion. There's more detail in The Children of Hurin, but I don't have a copy. Instead, I direct you to the other reblogs, which have mentioned this quite frequently.
2: Foreword
In this work the concluding chapters (from the death of Túrin Turambar) introduced peculiar difficulties, in that they had remained unchanged for many years, and were in some respects in serious disharmony with more developed conceptions in other parts of the book.
So before we even start the Silmarillion, we are told in the foreword that Túrin is guaranteed to die. There's no other way for the narrative to go.
3: Based on a tragedy
I don't have a copy of The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, but the summary on Tolkien Gateway of Letter 257 tells us that Túrin's story was originally based on the Finnish Kalevala character Kullervo, and the ending remained unchanged.
The germ of his writing his own legends fitted to his private languages was the tragic tale of hapless Kullervo in the Finish Kalevala. It was the basis for The Children of Húrin although all had changed except for the tragic ending.
I'm taking 'all had changed' to mean that the setting, characters, etc. were dramatically altered, because some aspects of the story remain the exact same. Both Kullervo and Túrin are separated from their families at a young age, have an unknowingly incestous relationship with their sister (who drowns herself upon realising who her brother is) and commit suicide on their magical talking sword.
4: Contains elements from 3 tragedies
In the excerpt of Letter 131 included before the main body of the Silmarillion,
There is the Children of Húrin, the tragic tale of Túrin Turambar and his sister Níniel – of which Túrin is the hero: a figure that might be said (by people who like that sort of thing, though it is not very useful) to be derived from elements in Sigurd the Volsung, Oedipus, and the Finnish Kullervo.
This appears in every edition of the Silmarillion, as far as I can tell, except possibly the first.
5: Rest of Silmarillion would not exist
Or at the very least, be changed significantly. Húrin says the following to Thingol in the Silmarillion, so it is clear he is bringing the Nauglamír as a direct result of his family's sorrows and hardships:
‘Receive thou thy fee,’ he cried, ‘for thy fair keeping of my children and my wife! For this is the Nauglamír, whose name is known to many among Elves and Men; and I bring it to thee out of the darkness of Nargothrond, where Finrod thy kinsman left it behind him when he set forth with Beren son of Barahir to fulfil the errand of Thingol of Doriath!’
Without the Nauglamír being in Thingol's possession, I think it's safe to say the Sons of Fëanor might not have attacked Doriath in search of a Silmaril, for example, which would change the course of Beleriand significantly. And as for Nargothrond, I think Túrin's counsel definitely had an impact on Nargothrond being revealed as early as it was:
When it became known to Orodreth that the Mormegil was in truth the son of Húrin Thalion he gave him great honour, and Túrin became mighty among the people of Nargothrond. But he had no liking for their manner of warfare, of ambush and stealth and secret arrow, and he yearned for brave strokes and battle in the open; and his counsels weighed with the King ever the longer the more. In those days the Elves of Nargothrond forsook their secrecy and went openly to battle, and great store of weapons were made; and by the counsel of Túrin the Noldor built a mighty bridge over the Narog from the Doors of Felagund, for the swifter passage of their arms. Then the servants of Angband were driven out of all the land between Narog and Sirion eastward, and westward to the Nenning and the desolate Falas; and though Gwindor spoke ever against Túrin in the council of the King, holding it an ill policy, he fell into dishonour and none heeded him, for his strength was small and he was no longer forward in arms. Thus Nargothrond was revealed to the wrath and hatred of Morgoth; but still at Túrin’s prayer his true name was not spoken, and though the fame of his deeds came into Doriath and to the ears of Thingol, rumour spoke only of the Black Sword of Nargothrond.
6: Bad choices
Look, I don't want to quote the whole chapter about Túrin in the Silmarillion at you. Or even worse, all the excerpts of The Children of Hurin that I can find. Instead, I direct you to a summary, nicely provided by Wikipedia. Please peruse it to your heart's desire.
If you don’t like a ship or character, that’s totally fine, but putting the tag for that ship or character in a hate post is unnecessary and just makes you look like an asshole tbh. Tags are meant for people who enjoy that content to find and share it and interact with other fans, I guarantee that you’re not changing anyone’s mind about it by ambushing them with negativity in their space. It’s one thing to vent on your own blog or in untagged spaces, but putting hate in the tags just pushes your opinion into a community that didn’t ask for it. You can curate your experience without ruining someone else’s😃
Nah you guys don’t get it. For all that Gandalf complained about Pippin, he better than anyone else knew that Pippin was absolutely crucial. Pippin accomplishes a very impressive feat: not only does he manage to see something in the palantír (most hobbits would perceive nothing, as these stones were designed for use by high elves), but he manages to close his mind against Sauron. That is a seriously impressive feat of ósanwë given Pippin’s youth and almost total inexperience. The only clue Sauron manages to glean from the meeting with Pippin is that he is in Meduseld: which Pippin probably did not even directly give to him. Pippin did not tell Sauron his name, so Sauron is led to believe that Pippin is Frodo. I remind you, in the books, the Good Guys manage to trick Sauron, by making him believe that Aragorn has claimed the One Ring. They can only do that because of Pippin’s ridiculous feat of ósanwë. Far from sabotaging the mission, he is the one who allows it to succeed (albeit, not on purpose). This is why Sauron doesn’t think anything is fishy when Aragorn wins the Battle of the Pelennor Fields by controlling ghosts: that would be consistent with the idea that he is using the One Ring. Which Sauron believes that Pippin brought to him. This is why Sauron pulls out his old “play nice and weak” card from his Númenor days. He first of all believes that Aragorn is a lot more powerful than he actually is, and secondly thinks that the Ring is beginning to affect him.
He should perhaps have remembered that Aragorn is named for Fingolfin. Fingolfin’s mother-name, Arakáno, would properly be translated to Sindarin as “Aragorn”. Most people would not show up to an enemy fortress with an army they knew was far too small, and start a battle they knew they would lose. But Fingolfin famously did exactly that.
When you read the line “fool of a Took!” It is important to understand that in the context of Gandalf calling himself a fool on several occasions. Galadriel too sees beyond the veneer of foolish naivety in Pippin. She gives him and Merry belts that almost definitely were once her brothers’. A golden flower on a gift from Galadriel can only be a golden lily, the sigil of the House of Finarfin. Galadriel, while all hell was breaking loose in Tirion, raided her brothers’ rooms and took their belts from when they were little kiddos, hauled them across the Helcaraxë, and then held onto them for three Ages before giving them to two hobbits she just met. Merry, of course, is comparable to Angrod and Aegnor: his great deed is done in a moment of beserk rage, and it is a feat of strength. This then implies that she is comparing Pippin to Finrod. That’s one hell of a complement coming from Galadriel: but as I just pointed out, entirely warranted. Pippin manages to reproduce Finrod’s feat of radio silence, in the face of torture by Sauron. Which again, is extremely impressive given that Pippin is far younger and less experienced than Finrod was.
honestly, i think it's pretty much a given in context that for beren, the silmaril quest is not really about being able to be with luthien. he already is with her, and they do have other options aside from asking for thingol's blessing. as has been pointed out, they could have easily run away together. but beren doesn't want that life for luthien. he doesn't want her to, even willingly, give up her home, her family and friends, everything she's known, and live with all the dangers that he's been experiencing since he was a teenager, just to be with him. as far as he's concerned, he'd rather tackle a perilous and seemingly impossible quest for thingol's blessing as best as he can, than ever put luthien in that kind of danger. he knows. he knows how disheartening it is to live every day in fear and uncertainty. he loves her too much to ever give up on their relationship, but he also loves her too much to ever ask her to choose him over safety, security, family, and home. she would, as their story shows on no uncertain terms -- but he would never ask her to. he would rather die trying to let her have both than take either away from her
Aight I’ve had a few people ask me for this in response to this post so:
Many times in Tolkien’s works, armies, leaders, heroes, etcetera, launch an attack on The Dread Fortress. This is a very Campbellian behavior, obviously, and usually ends with the hero either dying, or surviving but at a horrible price. Some examples:
Fingolfin: Goes after Morgoth (enemy), manages to wound him, but dies, not only losing his life but forcing a leadership change among the Noldor that arguably contributed to the fall of Beleriand.
Beren: went after the Silmaril (object); though it was for the cause of love, he was still going after an object, a prize, and he failed to achieve his goal (lost the Silmaril, and lost his hand).
Gwindor: Went to Angband for revenge for his brother, wound up captured, tortured, and maimed.
Frodo: Went to Mount Doom to throw the ring into the flame, lost his reason (temporarily) and his finger (permanently) and fortunately, the ring (accidentally).
Finrod Felagund: Went to the Tol-in-Gauroth to fulfill his oath (NO OATHS!), lost his life and a rap battle.
Notably, all of these are presented as ostensibly good, right, or at the very least understandable and morally neutral choices and behaviors. None of these are villains. These are protagonists, heroes, rightful kings, or tragic figures.
BUT
If you go into the Dread Fortress specifically seeking a PERSON you love, things go differently.
Sam: Goes into the tower of Cirith Ungol seeking Frodo. Sings a song. Emerges with Frodo. Loses nothing. Later, escapes another dread fortress with the Eagles.
Lúthien: Goes into Angband seeking Beren. Sings a song. Emerges with Beren. Loses nothing. (You can argue that she loses something when she emerges from Mandos with Beren, but it’s still freely traded, and frankly, Mandos is not a Dread Fortress.) Escapes the Dread Fortress with the Eagles.
Fingon: Goes to the Thangorodrim seeking Maedhros. Sings a song. Emerges with Maedhros. Loses nothing. Escapes the Dread Fortress with the Eagles.
In conclusion, if your boyfriend is held prisoner in the Dread Fortress, don’t get mad. Get your harp, and Get Him Back. You’ll probably even get a cool ride home.
“When I speak of Indigenous peoples surviving an apocalypse, I’m not speaking metaphorically. The colonization of the Americas represents the largest genocide in human history. Indigenous populations declined by an estimated 90% in the century following European contact, which was about 1/5 of the world’s population at the time. This over just a one-hundred-year period. Entire civilizations vanished. Languages died. Sacred sites were destroyed. After that culturally genocidal policies were enacted like banning religious ceremonies and children being stolen and forced into boarding schools designed to “kill the Indian, save the child.””
