Just wondering whether you think that 5.20 etc was planned or something they decided to do because of fan reaction? Thanks!
(I’mguessing by your use of ‘etc’ that you’re referring to Olicity’s progression?)
Not a chance.Hell no. The reunion has been 100% set in stone since before they broke up. @louiseblue1 and @jbuffyangel have explained it so well in the past, much better than I’m about to.
HOW theydecided to do it, they figured out between May and August 2016, with a fewaddendum’s made by 5.05 was filmed. Whenthey knew the time they wanted them to reunite (as in, at the end of a season)? Roughly when they filmed 4.16. I knowthere are some people who disagree, but I know the truth.
Bulletpoint answers coming up:
- Thescript for 5.19 was written before 5.14 even aired – which means they’d figuredit out before the ruckus that episode 15 inspired.
- They’ve known all season how much we dislike the LI’s: they still went ahead with them.
- Before writing scripts for a season, they must first plan the season. Good novelists andfanfiction authors do the same for a story they know will last a while (I don’tand I suffer for it). They don’t have enough time to change things on the spot lateron or mess about with the plot because of their tight schedule, which is whythey write scripts for episodes that are roughly 4 episodes ahead of the onesbeing filmed. And then they have to make sure the episodes work with thenarrative flows of the season. Advanced prep.
- When 5.05aired (an episode that was filmed before episode 1 aired), WM & MG bothadmitted that they wanted to explore Oliver and Felicity apart from each otherfor a bit FIRST. First. It impliesthat it isn’t forever. Just long enough for realisations to set in. And todrive the fandom insane.
- Beforethe season started no one said they were over. Yet by season 2’s end andbefore season 3’s air date, WM was saying said that Oliver wouldn’t be getting backwith LL or Sara because their relationships were based on the past and wouldnever last. SA specifically said NO.
- WM &MG have also said this season that there were a few stories they had left thatthey ONLY do if Oliver and Felicity weren’t together. It was the truth. Such asexplore them with other people and see those relationships fail for a fundamental reason. As well as delving into Felicity’schanges and Oliver’s sin. Hisdarkness. Facing himself. To findthemselves before they can find each other.
- Thisseason was THE one where they could throw Olicity utterly through the blender as they explored other avenues. We didn’t have to like itbut it has been implied enough times for us to know that it’s because oncethese two idiots get together, it’ll stick. Even through bad times. With many seasons to come - like Stephen said - they could afford to slow down.
- Dig askeda question in episode 1 regarding Olicity that has yet to be answered because like each seasonthere is something in the first episode that gets answered in the last. Ithasn’t always been a question. It’s a device used to show progression, whetherfor good or bad.
(Now thereare many themes and questions, I’m just picking one for each) Season 1: itdelves right into making us wonder who Oliver Queen is, what his mission is andwhy. Who he’s become. And what it might cost. It ends with a man who is asurvivor but not a hero, a man who tried and failed and the cost? Tommy.
Season 2:Can he be a hero in trying a different way? Answer: yes.
Season 3:It’s more of a choice than a question: The Arrow or Oliver Queen.
Season 4:Can Oliver and Felicity be together both romantically and professionally? DoesOliver have what it takes to be the light? Both answers are ‘not yet’. They’reboth under a schism.
Season 5:is Felicity going to be part of Oliver’s future and can Oliver overcome what’sbeen hurting him for so long? Yes and yes.
It’s aquestion posed and meant to be answered by 5.23.
- MG recently said in a tumblr answer that he andthe writers view Olicity as much morethan just a romance and that it wasa very good thing. And it is: itmeans not only will they pay attention to them as a couple, they’ll givecredence to the people they are. Who they’ve become. Felicity’s had more storythis year than Laurel did season 1. They’re exploring her personality, whereasLL got thrown a bunch of cases to try and fail at solving and got passed around2 men. In fact, in each season, Felicity’s story builds. THIS year, the showhas explored Oliver more than anyone else but it was always with the goal inmind of truly making him a legend: the GA. This show has always been about him.
I justmentioned Laurel and season 1…
Thisseason, in some ways, is like a fix-it. At least, it is for me. And I promise this ties into the question :)
In season1, Oliver tried to honour his father and did so by taking his book of names ofthe members and associates of Tempest and making it a list of marks to hunt,intimidate, coerce or kill. To try and make Starling better this way.
His mainlove interest was LL, who he’d betrayed; however, he spent the season trying – toa fashion – to find compatibility from a woman with the man he had become.
Helenawas the connective thread to his darker side searching for redemption.
Mckennawas his desire for some normalcy: an ordinary, functional but caringrelationship.
Laurelwas his need to heal the past; to go back in time and once again be the man heused to be, the one everyone missed, the man who hadn’t made a dumbass decisionthat ended in death, terror and loss.
A man whocouldn’t love Laurel because he wasno longer the man she fell in love with. That man died in the ocean.
(Toanyone who doesn’t like what I’ve just written, please re-watch episode 8:Oliver says this to a version of LL. An episode were he sees people he’s lostand feels guilt over loosing, the people he needs to leave behind becausethey’re haunting him. The people he couldn’t save because he wasn’t who theythought he was.)
A man who wasn’ta dutiful son. Or the amazing boyfriend who hadn’t slept around behind LL’sback. And hewasn’t Ollie. He’d never be Ollie again except to his sister. It takes 2seasons for him to figure that out.
Rightbefore the end of season 1, he gets the girl, aims to save the city anddeclares that - once he’s finished - maybe he won’t need to fight anymore.
By 1.23he’s lost his best friend, any last chance with LL by CHOICE not circumstance, this is important, he doesn’t save thecity and his mother is arrested.
What should have happened after season 1 –I’m going to focus particularly on LL – if a) Oliver wasn’t as damaged as we’vefound him out to be in season 5 and b) if KC as LL had worked, is this:
LL wouldhave found out Oliver’s secret at the end of season 1. After Tommy’s death they would have slept other but he still would have left.
Oliverand LL would have spent up to, roughly, episode 14 of S2 being apart until theycouldn’t take it anymore. Instead of sleeping with Sara, it would have beenLaurel.
They’d beon and off throughout until the end of S3.
Insteadof spending the whole of S2 being an addict and recovering: LL would have alsobeen using boxing or martial arts etc to try to kick her habit and vent some ofher anger and guilt at Tommy’s death. She would have become a definite target forSlade and there would have been more than one episode covering this. By the endof the season, Oliver would have started training her. Personally.
In itsplace, we got an LL who spent an entire season – this is going to sound superharsh - feeling sorry for herself and blaming everyone else but herself for herproblems. I know that sounds bad but, she drank and popped pills to take awayher pain because it was too much for her. THAT’S FINE. THAT’S UDNERSTANDABLE.
What isn’t fine, is making damn sure thatwhoever’s with her feels just as bad, if not worse, than she does.
Becauseshe doesn’t just feel guilty, she feels entitled to pass judgement. As if herpain gives her a free pass. It gives no one else on the show a free pass sothis isn’t a facet the audience can like.
The lasttime she does it is with Oliver: that argument in the hallway after she’s justhurt her father, mother, sister and ex all in one go. After she blamed Sara –like she did Oliver – for ‘ruining’ her life. For making every bad decision and every wrong turn shes made, the fault of someone else.
That’swhen a character being an addict loses sympathy. The addict part isn’t aproblem. It’s how the character affects the people around them. She improvesafterwards but, that mark stays with her.
Weaccepted Thea’s drinking and substance abuse, even if she irritated us, even if she was horribly immature with it; it wasunderstandable and acceptable. She was a teenager lashing out at the world. But they deliberately didn’t push too far withit. They did with LL. They being thewriters etc.
They makeher into a vigilante for her sister with some ‘I care about Oliver even though I disagree with everything he says andhave become a vigilante for SARA yet - when it suits me – also because Ollie’sone too and if he can do it - even though I disagree with everything he does –then so can I’ thrown in.
Season 5resembles this movement… but it twists it on its head and mends what wasbroken.
Oliverhas resorted back to killing criminals, to being very much the vigilante ofseason 1. He’s in love with Felicity but can’t be with her because he’s hurther terribly and there’s something fundamental that hasn’t mended. That hasn’tbeen fixed. Something in him.
Noticed the similarity with season 1?
He spendsthe season unconsciously working from the viewpoint that he is someone whoinfects others. Someone who killed his ownhappiness and didn’t save the people he cared for.
Tommy,his mother, his father, Laurel etc… Felicity’s presence by his side. She closedoff her heart to him and that’s his fault.
But hetries, like in season 1, to build something. He – at Felicity’s behest – buildsa bigger team. He tries to be the politician Star City deserves. He tries tomove on and date. He tries not to succumb to the monster he was the year beforehe returned home. He tries to atone and move forwards.
Professionallyhe mostly succeeds. Personally, he utterly fails.
Rory hasleft by choice. Evelyn betrayed them by choice. Curtis has destroyed hismarriage through choice.
Rene andDinah are flourishing.
As apolitician, he’s destroyed his legacy as the Arrow, even though he thought itthe right choice: it’s hurt him and he doesn’t know how to come back from that.
He killedBilly, thereby once again, hurting Felicity and reminding him again that it isn’tthe worst thing he’s done.
Hesettled for the first offer at a relationship that came along, from a woman whohe knew initially thought little of him because he needed to prove to someonelike that, that he wasn’t bad and could be better. And if he could convincesomeone like her – even as he lied and was subpar about them – then maybe, justmaybe he could be worthy of more. Worthy of Felicity.
He nowfeels he was an idiot to even try and once he saw that for what he was, once herealised why he’d tried in the first place he dumped Snoozan in the coldest breakup I’ve seen on TV in a long time.
He’s beenforced to see why he destabilises everything in his life. He’s fallen to hislowest ever point.
And likewith every season, Felicity will be the one to make him rise back up.
Unlike season1, Oliver and Felicity won’t have a quick 2-minute thing and then spend 3 episodesignoring each other like he and LL had between 21 and 23 S1.
Olicity had episode 19 to air out the big problem between them. She thinks he doesn’t trust her and he has no idea how to tell her the truth because once he does he thinks he’ll lose her love forever. They’llhave 5.20 to circle back round to each other, to have Oliver explain why he’sbeen acting the way he’s been acting and have Felicity be openly vulnerable tohim. 5.22 it’s his b-day party and 5.23 they all end up on Lian Yu.
Not citywide attack, no loss of a best friend (Diggle), no loss of a love that’s hislife and his always and his future.
Perspectivewill be gained as will a new life. He’ll let go of the rope around his neck:his promise to his father. He’ll FINALLY step off the island. He’ll have thegirl who completes him to help him and him, her.
THEYCOULDN’T MASH THIS UP TOGETHER IN WEEKS OF PANIC OVER THE OUTCRY OF FANS.
They would never - EVER - give THIS much simply for fan-service. It’s far too much.
They aren’t that stupid. A waste of money, time and resources on pleasing some fans.
Look, weknow fans have some power. We know that. They listen to what we like and ifenough people like something, they either look at it more closely or it’s given credence.
But itisn’t their motivation for action. And the CW guys, the directors, theproducers, Warner Br’s etc: they make calls that we don’t know about BEFORE fanreactions even occur. Before they we loved Felicity, THEY fell on love with herfirst and asked her to be brought on for more episodes.
By seeingthe scripts for season 2 and 3, we’ve had it confirmed that all the smallmoments between them over season 1 and 2 were created with an epic romance inmind. The break up has been coming since the beginning. Weall know LL was the original LI, until they watched the pilot before it airedand realised they couldn’t re-cast their female lead.
The breakup and the space between Oliver and Felicity has been deliberate and something they’vebeen planning for a long time. As is their reunion. As is Oliver’s rise toglory.
All ofthis, the romance, has all been about Oliver becoming the GA. It has NOTHING todo with fan reaction.
Take abrief look at season 4’s narrative cues first:
They’retogether, moving in with each other and getting married. All in 9 episodes.Wow. At the time I didn’t notice the speed but looking back at it, I’m superstunned I didn’t see the it until it was too late.
Theyrushed their progress to break themup. To give them lots of time to live differently without each other. I’ve already posted that I believe they’re aiming for 5 more seasons to reflect on the first 5. It had nothing to do with whetherwhoever makes the decisions likes Olicity or not; it was a piece of the story.They realised they were going to get more than 5 seasons – A LOT more.Revealing this secret child and having them work through that was probablygoing to happen all in one season. Until the glorious news of more seasons.
So, thenthey have that scene in 4.16 where Felicity says to Oliver that he would alwaysbe on that island and that, though she loves him and wants to be with him,he’ll always resort to being that person. To the man created in those 5 yearsaway. The kind of fiancé who would make the kind of choices that would leavethe ones he loves bereft, even if that wasn’t his intention. The man she loveswho could one day simply leave her, because of a choice he might make.
It’s aprogressive point: something for him to aim to beat. A wall to climb over. Andsome walls are really high and terrifying to scale.
They’re at a stale mate and a crossroads and to be honest, I understand why. As much as the patience they asked ofus is wearing very thin, I get why it took so long.
Theycouldn’t get back together in season 4 because Felicity was right: eventuallyhe’ll make a decision that will ruin them. And she needed to face her demons.Until he could understand himself, understand what lies at the root of hisdecisions, they were null.
AndOliver… well he’s the king at burying what hurts. It’s very characteristic ofhis character to take a full season to GET IT.
This isthe core of season 5. His evolution.Stepping past that and becoming the hero Felicity has seen in him since dayone.
And yethe hasn’t managed to do this without her.
She’s a pinnacle piece of his puzzle.Their break up is at the root of what’s hurting him.
Most ofhis choices this season have ended in failure and/or pain. The things he’sdoing as the mayor, how he’s resorted to killing once again, then openlyrenouncing the GA without discussing it with his team, dating SW and thendumping her like she was nothing (she was and he knows it which is why hedoesn’t understand why he dated her: it was because he was lonely btw), they’vebeen based on an underlying principal that he is this bad person who destroysthe goodness around him. He went in search of something to prove that wrong… what he found was much worse. He found thetruth: or a partial truth.
Beingalone hasn’t helped him: it’s simply made him see what he was denying foryears. In a very real way, it is a sickness.
Buthonestly, he was never EVER going to understand himself fully, was never goingto see the missing pieces without Felicity Smoak.
I believe5.20 will be about this: about the revelation in 5.17 and Felicity showing himthat there might be a different way to see this.
The waythey’ve filmed the episode tells me they’ve put a good deal of thought andMEANING into it.
It’s sounding like theOlicity episode to end all other episodes: they’re in each scenetogether. It’s been made so that Felicity has to depend on him, something she’sbeen deliberately not doing all season. It will be brutally honest, gut wrenching and heart-warming MAYBE OTHER THINGS.
Now,WITHOUT proof, why would they do allthat just to tide over a fan-base?
If thenarrative flow to Olicity and their reunion wasn’t obvious to some people it’sbecause they were either too close to the subject or too angry at their breakup. I get why. It was a crappy breakup and the length of time we’ve had to waitfor the pendulum to swing back around has been almost too much – but they couldnever get back together until Oliver is at his lowest, until he is at a place he can fully open like he’s never been before.
All because of her, because she’s changing his world view of her and it is certainly not in any bad way.
And indoing this - in confessing to the one person he’s most afraid to confess to -he’ll free himself of a burden AND have what is likely going to be an amazingresponse from the woman he loves. Something to give him hope: a different pointof view. Maybe it’s that simple. It’ll connect to their breakup. It ALL connects.
They’retying up 5 years of story in 5 episodes, but there will be a focus on hissecrets (William/his break up with Felicity) and his loose ends (the return ofsome major villains etc).
She’s beenthrough something now, and she sees him in a different light — and he also seesher in a different light. There’s a lot more mutual understanding, and eventhough I think it’s hard to top the mutual respect they already have for eachother, that goes up as well.”
WM said this and do you seehow brilliant that is?
That they’re creating a couplewho no one can stand against, a couple who love, respect and admire each otherthe most out of everyone. A couple who understand each other enough that theirfuture encounters are bound to fascinate us.
Like someone once said, they’rethe DNA that make Arrow what it is. The essential make up now of the show.
Fan-service, they will neverbe. They were decided BEFORE we wanted them by Warner Bro’s, CW, the directorsetc.
(DID I GO ON, OR DID I GO ON? I DO APOLOGISE)
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