Now I love these characters but you could take Laddie and Star out of the Lost Boys movie and have it still make sense and work. Sure a few things would change, but fundamentally they can easily be replaced by another already existing character taking their lines and minorly important actions. Laddie not being in the musical is proof of that. Him and Star had the same roll in the movie, besides Star being “love interest.”
If you take Star out of the musical, the whole thing is messed up. You can’t do it without her unless you want a major rewrite. We’ve had improvement
Ngl though they are so valid for not putting Laddie in the musical. Not only would they have to make a character for him but they would need to work with a child actor. With laws and stuff it sucks, there is a reason so few shows do it. One minor is enough for the show
Now I love these characters but you could take Laddie and Star out of the Lost Boys movie and have it still make sense and work. Sure a few things would change, but fundamentally they can easily be replaced by another already existing character taking their lines and minorly important actions. Laddie not being in the musical is proof of that. Him and Star had the same roll in the movie, besides Star being “love interest.”
If you take Star out of the musical, the whole thing is messed up. You can’t do it without her unless you want a major rewrite. We’ve had improvement
I'm not okay. And I'm once again making it everyone else's problem.
I'm done pretending Katherine is 18 there is INDISPUTABLE evidence she is AT LEAST 21.
Exhibit A: Medda's "no kids allowed in the theater" but Katherine got in.
Exhibit B: Katherine's "every worker under 21" which proves Disney is going by the fact that in 1899 you were considered a minor until age 21 and not just making up rules.
I fear this either means a HORRIFIC oversight on Disney's part or that they're... actively... promoting this... subtly...
I dunno I'm simply not chill with 17yo Jack and 21yo Katherine. I mean it's not like I shipped Jatherine anyway but still.
no I am so with you on this, it has always bugged me
in an official casting call she was listed as being 18, however I've always had trouble with the question of her age considering she is presented as a fairly well established reporter
for one thing Nellie Bly, who is the official inspiration for Kath according to Disney, was in her early twenties during her employment with the World, and from what I've pieced together, while younger people (late teens) could get involved with journalism in the latter half of the 20th century, they took up assistant or apprenticeship roles which doesn't seem to be the nature of Katherine's job at the Sun (it's a missed opportunity in my opinion to have Kath be Denton's apprentice)
I personally feel that the historical inconsistencies with Katherine (including, by the way, that the Sun was very well known for NOT employing women) is just proof of the carelessness with which she was created and proof that her character deserved to be handled so much better
Like, she isn't the most established of reporters in terms of what she has been reporting on (Denton had covered an "important story" before the strike, whereas Katherine was "busting out of the social pages"), but she was established because of how long she'd been reporting.
For her to have such frustration of still being stuck writing in the social column (also dubbed as the 'women's pages' for its coverage of leisure and gossip), she must have been at the job long enough to watch her (male) peers get promoted to the "hard news".
With this in mind, we also have to think about when she began working.
She's the daughter of Joseph Pulitzer, and was therefore offered "a life of wealth and leisure," which she chose to reject in favour of a career.
Make-friends-with-the-rats' point about Nellie Bly and (more specifically) the nature of Katherine's job is very useful for guessing Katherine's age.
I'd like to add to this with the life she was giving up in favour of her career. Katherine's job is very different to these young, untrained, and low-paid (often unpaid) 'cub' reporters. These reporters did begin in their teens, however, I don't think Katherine would've begun in her early teens even if she could.
Firstly, the debutante age was roughly 18 (although some girls entered society at 17 and sometimes even 16). Before then, she was a child. Not in the sense that she was gifted dollies and went on playdates, but in the sense that she hadn't yet taken on the responsibilities of adulthood.
Perhaps she decided to pursue reporting when she was faced with the "life of wealth and leisure" ahead of her, especially as, in her father's statement, it appears that she rejected the life as soon as it was offered:
PULITZER Oh, no need. She can hear for herself. Can’t you, darling? [Katherine reluctantly steps out from behind the chair.] I trust you know my daughter, Katherine? Yes. My daughter. You’re probably asking why the nom de plume? Why doesn’t my daughter work for me? Good questions. I offered Katherine a life of wealth and leisure. Instead, she chose to pursue a career. And she was showing real promise until this recent lapse. But you’re done with all of that now, aren’t you, sweetheart?
It seems that he was (or at least became) supportive of Katherine's choice. Of course, he was disappointed that she didn't take the financial safety and comfort, but he's her father. He didn't want her to struggle.
(I've explored their relationship a bit more here, and the post also discusses how Pulitzer was perhaps harder on his sons but loving to his daughters.)
Anyhow, Pulitzer believes that Katherine has promise when it comes to reporting, so she would undoubtedly have more success if she worked for him, and would've had many promotions. So it seems that Katherine was eager to succeed on her own merit and thus not succeed because of her connections (which is supported by Pulitzer's clear upset/annoyance at Katherine's pen name).
Promotion, of course, was tied to sensationalised headlines, juicy stories, and getting exclusive information that made their story the story everybody wanted to read.
Katherine, as we know, is brilliant at headlines and is described in her trading card as a "gifted writer." Yet, despite her skills, she never got the promotion she desired. In her song, she references that everything she writes is met with "the screaming of ten angry editors," because of her gender. And she's been in the job long enough that she can predict everything they're going to say.
She's insecure about her inexperience (due to being stuck in the social pages):
JACK Hey, what’s the last news story you wrote?
KATHERINE What’s the last strike you organized?
If she were only a year into the job, that wouldn't bother her so much. The more talented and daring reporters could get promoted within a year, but it wasn't uncommon at all for reporters to spend a few years in the lower positions.
I'm sure that before she entered the career, she had an argument with her father where he made it clear that promotion (and being respected) would be harder for her as a woman. Plus, she's an intelligent character, and I'm certain she'd observed the social hierarchy in her own home and her father's business.
So, let's say she began at 17.
In my mind, with the additional time that Katherine was hopeful to 'prove them wrong,' and then enough time to build (justified) resentment at those who stalled giving her respect, a promotion, and an important story: Katherine is 21.
I've always seen her as 21, but that's just my outlook. She can most certainly be younger, just as she can most certainly be older. But Katherine being 17 (or even 18) feels unrealistic.
Plus, she was quite ignorant at the beginning of Newsies and had to confront her class prejudice. Katherine may have believed that being a cub reporter was below her.
Now, Katherine could have met Nellie Bly as a child, since her father worked with her. I'm sure if it made Katherine happy, Pulitzer would've gladly introduced them. She would have been a child if this happened (her greatest chance to meet her being in 1887 and 1890), so perhaps it was Nellie who inspired her to become a reporter, especially since Katherine was so eager to expose the living standards and mistreatment in the Refuge.
One thing is clear, though: Katherine is not a stunt girl like Nellie Bly. However, you don't always intend to copy those who inspired you, and I don't think Pulitzer would allow Katherine to be a stunt girl, and Katherine (at the time) may have believed it was beneath her or simply that it was too dangerous.
I'm aware that the real Katherine Pulitzer would have been 17. But (in the least insensitive way possible), the real Katherine Pulitzer would also be dead. Her character was not supposed to reflect a real person, but rather serve as an interesting (and technically possible) addition. And the most realistic age for her character, based on Katherine's circumstances and experiences, is not 17.
Yeah, so those are my thoughts on Katherine's age.
Making Katherine Denton's apprentice was such a missed opportunity! Denton and Katherine can easily coexist, even if Denton had a lesser, 'supervisor' role. It would truly add so much to the musical.
(I believe that Katherine and Denton can both coexist as main reporters, too, but that is a conversation for another day.)
Katherine most certainly could have been handled better, and I suppose it's our job as a fandom to do her justice.
Really love this screen shot because what Emotion is Alan trying to convey here.
He kinda just rubs his face against Sam's shoulder like a really pleased cat in the middle of their vampire murder town song. The first time he meets the guy. It's really funny to me.
Does anyone know who is who in this? I haven’t gotten used to the musical designs. Ik Marko is the blonde one because he resembles his movie look a whole lot. But the others don’t really
I’ve never had anyone say they’d do something for me as earnestly as my theatre shop teacher telling me he will build me a door if I need one for my set
i think everything in newsies would've been solved like five times faster if race just manned up in the beginning and asked spot to join the strike himself instead of letting jack and them go
