I've touched on this ages ago with you, Blade, but maybe you'd appreciate an added parallel. So, we have an exceptionally talented stealth-oriented bot who is basically carrying the faction at this point and who the lone female of team decides to have a one-sided beef with despite the more professional bot not really caring about grudges. The female in question has been given more power/authority than she can be realistically trusted with, despite past history of abandoning the cause for her own personal wants. And despite her technically outranking the more competent bot, the gap in couldn't be more vast when it comes to loyalty to their shared cause/leader, competence, and teamwork.
Now, who fits that description better? Soundwave and Airachnid or Smokescreen and Arcee. Bonus points for the names of each role starting with the same letters.
(No pressure but feel free to add onto this if you like, @jazzimena)
So, while the grudge from Airachnid is brief, it also fits! Dang, they really are like the Decepticon equivalent of Smokescreen and Arcee, especially since both Airachnid and Arcee tend to just go off on their own to have a throwdown of sorts. Meanwhile there's Smokescreen and Soundwave winning the day for their respective sides while flat out ignoring the beef the girls have with them.
Gosh, Smokey going up against either of them would be epic, though I do owe @jazzimena (and myself at this point) a Smokescreen vs Dreadwing fight. As she pointed out, the dude zeroed in on Smokescreen. Now THAT is a fight I'd love to see!
Hmm. I can see a hypothetical fight between Smokescreen and Airachnid more-or-less resulting in Smokescreen being forced to go "confrontational" in his fighting style, at least once he managed to corner her - supposing he doesn't just phase her into a wall, which he could do rather easily/quickly. Now Soundwave, that would require equal amounts of trickery and strength from our Elite Guardsman. They're both very powerful despite their slim builds (Smokescreen's kicks can be qualified as deadly weapons, while Soundwave basically bodied Wheeljack even without the tentacles/stolen katanas), so that...........
Oh, the absolute cut loose of sheer power on both sides of the fight would be LEGENDARY!
Thank you for the tag @blade-liger-4ever & @kzele!
First of all, WOW! You two are really onto something with this parallel that I’ve never thought of before! Especially between Smokescreen and Soundwave. And second of all, I’m loving the possibilities that’d come out of a hypothetical fight between Smokescreen with Soundwave and/or Airachnid!
To preface, let me say that Bee can stay as Knock Out’s rival/foil (tbh I personally think KO’s better off as Ratchet’s rival/foil since they’re both medics and the parallels in their personalities). Also, this is just me, but I don’t really see Bee and Soundwave being foils/rivals. Yes, they’re both non–verbal and it would’ve been interesting to further explore that tidbit, but unsurprisingly, TFP never did anything with it. So, it’s difficult for me to see the “vision”.
On the flip side, Smokescreen and Soundwave being rivals/foils really tracks if you look at the differences/parallels in their personality and design! Smokescreen is boisterous and expressive, while Soundwave is silent and expressionless. Smokescreen dons a white and vibrant/flashy paintjob, while Soundwave has a dark/black paintjob and is basically robo–Slenderman. Smokescreen has a ground–based alt mode while Soundwave could fly.
There’s also their similarities. For starters, both are VERY loyal to their factions and would do anything for their team/leaders. Smokescreen was pretty verbal about his disappointment for being unable to serve the Autobot cause, and his undying loyalty is reflected via his “there’s nothing I wouldn’t do for you guys” line (kindly ignore Miss Insensitive’s response, please). Meanwhile, Soundwave has stood by Megatron’s side from Day One, and Megatron has nothing but good things to say about him; a courtesy he never really extends towards other Decepticons.
As mentioned prior, Smokescreen and Soundwave have brought nothing but wins for their respective factions (you can’t help but wonder how their respective teams/factions would’ve fared had they been absent). I also realized that they managed to escape from the enemy’s capture solo, but not before pulling a final “in your face!” (Smokescreen took the Omega Keys in Inside Job, while Soundwave kidnapped Ratchet in Minus One). Let’s also not forget how they’re the stealthiest bots in their respective factions, and that others could learn a thing or two from them.
Going back on their loyalty, they’re also the ones who CAN AND WILL stand up for their leaders while others stood by and watched. Smokescreen openly defended Optimus’ decision against Ratchet’s crash out, while Soundwave stood his ground against Airachnid’s plan of leaving Earth (and Megatron) behind. Look, if TFP ever has a last bot standing scenario from each faction (especially loyalty–wise), then it’d definitely be Smokescreen and Soundwave. (Or alternatively, if there's ever a "defend my leader" competition, they'd be in the front-lines)
(Note: Taking on a more serious turn…these two would willingly off themselves for their factions. Regarding Soundwave, I’m reminded by this scene from Evangelion when Rei, the blue–haired girl, confirms Asuka’s assumption/accusation that she’d off herself if her commander told her to via a simple "of course". I think a similar scenario could've played out with Soundwave and...maybe Starscream due to his envy...? Anyways, keep in mind that Soundwave’s the guy that stood by Megatron’s side from way back and still does now. He’s not going anywhere, and he’d do anything for Megatron and the Decepticon cause. If one day, Megatron deems his sacrifice to be necessary in furthering the Decepticon cause, then Soundwave would gladly do so.
I don’t mean to make this depressing, but Smokescreen’s just as willing to do so. Recall his “There’s nothing I wouldn’t do for you guys” line, and if I may add your “When the Dust Settles” fic as reference @blade-liger-4ever, the way he willingly took those extreme measures to defeat Tarn…? He’d do it again in a heartbeat (poor Chromia, though…). Smokescreen’s selflessness is…both a good and a bad thing. If someone from Team Prime asked him about the implications behind his words or if he’d be ready to lay down his life, he’d probably smile and reply, “Remember that time I said I’d do anything for you guys? I meant every word.”
Also, years ago, I vividly recall seeing a “what if” fanart of what’d happen had Smokescreen himself was the Omega Key. It depicted Smokescreen looking upwards with closed optics, his arms stretched to his side and taking a step forward, ready to jump into the Omega Lock to sacrifice himself. The piece was called “destiny”, which is…haha…maybe it’s a good thing I can’t find the fanart anymore)
…anyways, moving on to a lighter less–depressing topic!
Still on Smokescreen and Soundwave, I think you could expand on them being rivals/ foils. Inspired from this post, Soundwave would definitely view Smokescreen as a threat after learning of all his “feats”. While all Autobots are automatically a threat to the Decepticon cause…Smokescreen is different. He’s a newcomer, yet he managed to foil Lord Megatron’s plans for far too many times. Soundwave has faced his fair share of annoying Autobots, but…he’d be lying if he said that things aren’t getting personal with Smokescreen.
On the flip side, despite having every right to hold a grudge (to everyone, really)…Smokescreen’s not that type of guy. If anything, he thinks that Soundwave’s both crafty and creepy. He doesn’t appreciate Soundwave blindsiding him at his lowest and electrocuting him during his escape…but then again, Decepticons always play dirty. So…Smokescreen’s not very surprised.
(Note: You know, the vivid imagery of Soundwave having a one–sided beef with Smokescreen is pretty funny ngl. They have this constant back and forth where they try to one–up each other, and the difference is that Smokescreen takes it easy while Soundwave is SERIOUS, like this scene where Laserbeak intentionally rams into Smokescreen after getting shot by him, which I personally interpret as light pettiness from Soundwave’s/Laserbeak’s part. Anyways, can we talk about Smokescreen’s clean shot and how he managed to chip off a piece of Laserbeak? That was awesome! Once again, he’s the ONLY one who gets things done *sighs*).
All jokes aside, Smokescreen and Soundwave are the most loyal bots from their respective factions. Not to be dramatic, but if they ever traded blows, they’re not fighting for themselves, but rather, they’d be fighting in the name of their leaders and their faction. I’ll go back on this in a bit.
As I’ve also discussed with Blade, we felt that Smokescreen was robbed from having a proper one–on–one fight with the ‘cons. Dreadwing zeroed in on Smokescreen (before Bulkhead had his forced MC moment) in Hard Knocks andthere was a concept art of him solo–ing Shockwave in an early version of Project Predacon. We REALLY were robbed…*sigh*.
Anyways, a hypothetical Smokescreen vs. Soundwave or Airachnid would be awesome! I yearn for a proper Smokescreen vs. Soundwave fight because, as I said before, there’s the symbolism of them representing their respective leaders and faction. For a bit of comparison, in Triage, we saw how Soundwave managed against Wheeljack and his “coming at you full–force” fighting style (I recall someone describing Soundwave’s fighting style as “using your opponent’s strength against themselves”).
That said, I’m pretty curious to know how Soundwave would manage against an agile and opportunistic mid–to–closed–ranged fighter like Smokescreen. I’m (very) biased, but I’m confident that Smokescreen can give Soundwave a run for his money! (Smokescreen might’ve already learned about Soundwave’s gladiatorial past due to his close association to Megatron, so he’d be sure to take notes of his moves and may even learn a thing or two from available records. He’s an eager learner, people! He’ll also have to avoid Soundwave’s tentacles, but once that’s out of the way, he’s good to go).
As for a hypothetical Airachnid vs. Smokescreen fight…aside from this funny scene being the only time they ever “interacted”, Smokescreen has an advantage due to his agility and slighter build. Partners and Crossfire showed that bigger bots (read: Bulkhead and Optimus, then Dreadwing and Breakdown) don’t fare well against Airachnid’s speed. Since Bee’s the only one who managed to get the drop on Airachnid in Partners, Smokescreen could definitely do the same. Just like with Soundwave, Smokescreen has to keep an eye on Airachnid’s spider legs and webs (him not owning a sharp weapon might be a setback). But given his resourcefulness, I’m very sure he’ll manage.
He could try and consult a certain Two–Wheeler on how to face Airachnid…but I doubt she’d willingly impart her knowledge given the fact that she apparently has more beef/grudge with him than she does with STARSCREAM. Smokescreen might have to figure things out on his own...but then again, this isn’t his first rodeo.
Phew. I think that does it! I’m loving these Smokescreen–related discussions so far, they’re super fun and interesting! Once again, thanks a bunch for the tag @kzele and @blade-liger-4ever! It’s always so fun to talk/discuss about Smokescreen with you two! :D
You're welcome!
It was @kzele's point, but yes, the parallels are incredible! I also love the hypothetical interaction/fights between Smokescreen and these two 'Cons!
Quite frankly, Bee can do whatever so far as I'm concerned (except commit more war crimes *side-eyes "Masters & Students"*), but I will die on the hill that Knock Out serves as a better foil to Ratchet. Visually Bee and KO are foils, but the fact that both medics are off the field 9/10 and even oppose each other in age makes them better foils than Bee and KO. Yeah, TFP's vision (as we've discussed elsewhere) is inconsistent and/or clearly focused on Arcee.
Exactly! Heck, white and black are actually opposite colors, so it's literally right there for all to see! Not to mention, neither Soundwave nor Smokescreen (so far as we know) have built-in melee weapons. Soundwave has the tentacles and later gets the Resonance Blaster, while Smokescreen has guns and the Phase Shifter. They are ACTUAL FOILS in the show!!!
Bingo: Their loyalty to their own faction is what makes them both so stand-out. Smokescreen would do anything for the Autobots (good grief, he sounds like he's almost in tears at the implication he's for all intents and purposes not good enough for the team. Also -
I think.....I think that's the only time we see how hurt/scared Smokescreen is in this show. Get this boy a hug and throw Arcee down the Mariana Trench.) Meanwhile, Soundwave has been there from the beginning of the War and never wavered. I can't believe that Soundwave gets rewarded for his loyalty, while Smokescreen is treated as a problem simply for not abiding by the emo quota of TFP. (Sidenote: I do believe that was the one time Smokescreen got short with Arcee; it's likely he eased off when he learned she was Optimus' SIC. Darn it, you nasty female of an Autobot....)
You could arguably call Smokescreen and Soundwave the stealthy aces of each faction (probably complete disarray if either side didn't have Soundwave or Smokescreen.) The only difference in their solo escapes are that Megatron had utter faith in Soundwave to handle himself, while the Autobots (except for, possibly, Optimus) didn't really consider anything sans the fact that Smokescreen had become a priority for the Omega Key he carried when he got captured. Ouch, my heart....
Hahaha, the loyal-to-death characters going mano-a-mano would've been legendary! Especially since Smokey's quips in this fight would either put Wheeljack to shame or make him applaud with a wide grin!
Oh definitely. Soundwave wouldn't hesitate if Megatron asked him to do something like that - which is both terrifying and impressive, somehow (Starscream would probably attempt that out of envy, as you said, but I feel he would ultimately back out in the end.) Oh yeah, Smokescreen wouldn't hesitate either, if it came down to it - which is admirable and frightening, because DUDE, YOU HAVE VALUE TOO, LISTEN TO CHROMIA (and please don't do that to her or us again.)
....Yeah I think it's a good thing you can't find that art piece again.
Moving on, yes! Soundwave is absolutely getting particularly annoyed with Smokescreen. None of Optimus' other subordinates were this effective at ruining their plans, yet this new guy fresh out of the Elite Guard/stasis is running circles around them? It's personal now.
Despite having every reason to hold a grudge against people, Smokescreen doesn't, which is awesome! (It also means he needs one or more people in his corner to defend him from those who'd abuse that about him.) That said, I can see Smokescreen, despite understanding that 'Cons play dirty, would feel a small need to "settle the score" with Soundwave, if only because he wants to "make up" for getting caught off-guard.
(Lol, totally! Smokescreen views it as a game, while Soundwave is out for blood. That would definitely explain Laserbeak's particular aim for Smokescreen. Also -
THAT was a heck of a shot! You know Arcee couldn't pull that off, hehehe...!) (Seriously, Smokescreen is carrying the group, give him some respect.)
Oh definitely. If they ever faced off, it's not a battle of people or wills: It's a battle of ideals.
WE WERE ROBBED OF SO MUCH, ARRRRRRGGGGGGHHHH! (Hmm, I wonder if this scrapped Smokescreen vs Shockwave battle could somehow be seen as "retribution" for the Dinobots' victimization at Shockwave's hand in Aligned Continuity.)
That would be cool, and more interesting than my idea of "the loyalist vs the renegade" foil of Wheeljack vs Soundwave in a hypothetical grudge match of sorts between them. Describing Soundwave's fighting style as "using your opponent's strength against them" is perfect, especially since, despite his own strength, that's EXACTLY what Soundwave does nearly all the time: takes the advantage of his foe and turns it into their disadvantage.
Biased as I am as well, you CANNOT tell me Smokescreen didn't do his research on Soundwave, especially since he knew enough about Starscream to call him out on his stilettos. Soundwave would have heard nothing about Smokescreen and likely predict him to act like Bumblebee - imagine his surprise when Smokescreen keeps changing the rules of the game! Yeah the tentacles would be a challenge, but Smokescreen's a fast learner; he can handle that, methinks.
Funny as it was, it's also depressing that Smokescreen was locked out of so much in the series. His leaner build and speed would definitely be an asset against Airachnid, as you said. While Smokescreen canonically has no melee weapon, let alone a sharp one, I like to imagine him as similar in aspects to Laura for personal weaponry, and can see him having either a foot blade or one hiding behind his wrist like this.
Gosh, he'd probably just get lectured about how he "has no chance of facing her", or "your inexperience will get you killed if you go after her"....so the apoplectic fit of Smokescreen walking away virtually unscathed from a battle with Airachnid would be epic and worth our while >:)
I hope I satisfied with my answers. And yes, it's getting fun! I love these talks we've been having, it's always a pleasure!
I hope you each have a good day!
Hi! I’m back with my additional points because it’s hard not to do so, hehe. You’ll find some lengthy discussion and rants about you–know–who, which is unsurprising, but I'd like to give you a heads up!
*High-fives you* Yep! KO’s a WAY better rival/foil to Ratchet! There’s also the alt–mode differences despite their medic profession and their personalities. Not saying that rivals/foils can’t have the same/similar alt–modes (Bulkhead and Breakdown), but…some feel forced (Bumblebee and Knock Out). It’s interesting that a hypothetical rival/foil (Smokescreen and Soundwave) are more interesting than what canon has (Arcee and Airachnid).
(Note: This is sudden, but all this rival/foil talk made me think that...Bee and Airachnid make better foils/rivals than with their “counterparts”, especially considering their fight in Partners. Think about it: vibrant vs. dark paintjob, silent/serious vs. talkative/taunting, young vs. old, ground–based alt–mode vs. aerial alt–mode, etc. Also, look at the parallels: Bumblebee’s based off of bees, yet can’t fly, while Airachnid’s based off of spiders, yet can fly. To top it all off, did you know that Bees and Spiders are arthropods? While debatable on Bee’s part, they’re both stealthy, and often do sneak attacks/tricking).
Okay…moving on to a stress–inducing topic…
It’s ironic that the guy whose an Autobot through and through is having his loyalty questioned by the most Decepticon–like/Rogue–ish Autobot. Ugh. Someone please subject Smokescreen to at least an hour’s worth of self–love affirmations because he didn’t deserve ANY of that. Geez. There’s envy, and there’s Arcee. (Oh look, it rhymed).
The light waver on his voice when he said he’d do anything for the team…ohhh our poor boy…*hugs tightly*. Now that you said it, it’s ironic that the Decepticons treat their best–performing soldier WAY better than the Autobots. Of course, there’s Megatron’s looming “don’t EVER mistreat or talk badly about Soundwave” threat, even when Soundwave can defend himself…but still. It says quite a lot when the Decepticons can treat (or at least tolerate) one of their own WAY better than the Autobots. Take notes, OG Team Prime.
(Note: Agreed. Smokescreen’s got a thick plating, which explains why he’s unbothered by Arcee’s beef with him and Bulkhead’s act of SLAPPING THE APEX ARMOR FROM HIS SERVOS WITH HIS MACE. You can’t help but wonder what he faced in his Academy days or even his younger years…but even so, Smokescreen’s not completely immune, and I’m certain that Miss Hypocrite intentionally went for the jugular by saying/implying that he’s not an Autobot.
Keep in mind that she said something similar in Legacy. What, you get a kick over bullying Smokescreen by saying/implying he’s not Autobot? TWICE? Arcee, you're the LAST bot that should EVER yap about that. Look at a mirror, you Hypocrite.
*Sighs* I could also envision him easing off once he learns of that bit. But you know what this shows/emphasizes? That Arcee’s 100% comfortable with abusing her SIC status to “have her way”. Look at Darkness Rising, or her (insisting on) BERATING Smokescreen even after Optimus told her to STOP, because, APPARENTLY, “He (Smokescreen) needs to hear this”. You sure about that? At this rate, an apology from her would be OOC...she doesn’t deserve that SIC status. AT. ALL.
Haha…OG Team Prime…when I get you…*shakes fist at the air*. I get that Optimus meant well by letting Smokescreen “cool off” (though I still think he or the others should’ve STOPPED Miss Hypocrite’s tirade), but seriously, preventing Bulkhead from going after Smokescreen…wasn’t the best idea. Keep in mind that Smokescreen likely felt alienated since nobody stood up for him, meaning that him not being an Autobot is TRUE. Letting Bulkhead go after him would’ve at least showed that someone thought otherwise and cared enough to go after him. Plus, back up would’ve been available when Soundwave ambushed Smokescreen, because Bulkhead (assuming he could face Soundwave because he “beat” Dreadwing) could’ve stalled for time…*sighs *. I don’t know anymore…
Anyways, Wheeljack’s would 100% go all “proud uncle” mode. Look at him with Miko! He’d be pleasantly surprised to see Smokey landing those quips given that he’s often silent during fights…but Wheeljack’s loving what he’s seeing!He’d definitely cheer on Smokey from the distance, all the while yelling “Kick his aft, kid! Show ‘em what you’re REALLY made of!”
Yep. Soundwave doesn’t play with his loyalty (good point, especially since Starscream backing out after saying he’s ready to die is canon. Meanwhile, Smokescreen also doesn’t play with his loyalty (had he been in Sick Mind, he’d readily volunteer to use the Patch, unlike a certain someone). But yeah…good luck with that, Smokey. Chromia, Hound, and Red Alert are pulling him into a group hug post–When the Dust Settles and never letting go. That’s…enough selfless act for now…
Smokescreen: Are you guys gonna let me go anytime soon?
Red Alert: No.
Hound: Nah.
Chromia: Never.
Smokescreen, smiling as he gets comfortable: …okay.
On a much lighter note, Soundwave’s definitely keeping an eye on Smokescreen from now on. How is it that this newcomer is an even bigger thorn on their side more so than Optimus and his other subordinates? The fact that Smokescreen has (apparently) never encountered combat before arriving in Earth is both infuriating…yet fascinating to Soundwave.
Mhm! Nothing will ever erase Smokey’s boundless optimism, and he’s determined to do his best for the Autobot cause…even if some of his comrades give him a hard time. But hey, the Mithril Sea Gang/Squad is ready to back him up! Also, Smokescreen may not the grudgeful type, but he deserves to have an opportunity to settle scores with Soundwave after he blindsided him (and Wheeljack). He won’t fall for the same trick twice!
You know,I can imagine something like this happening during a Smokescreen vs. Soundwave fight, probably when Smokey’s delivering his quips/light trash talk. It’s funnier when you consider that Soundwave’s likely in his mid to late 30’s/40’s…while Smokescreen’s a young adult. Wheeljack’s laughing at the background as we speak, heh.
((Note: Arcee’s a “good shot”, but her targets were either in a comatose state or moving slowly. She’s also such a good shot to the point she caused a cave in. Congrats, Arcee. You trapped everyone. She knew the cave’s getting unstable after Megatron’s shots, so why not just…flee…? Ugh. That’s the umpteenth time her poor “decision–making” led to a snowball effect which endangered others in the process. (Read: Darkness Rising, Predatory, Speed Metal, Rock Bottom, Hard Knocks). It’s a miracle no one had died by her servos. Nice work, Arcee *claps sarcastically*.
Yeah, everyone better put some respect on Smokescreen’s name! At least he doesn’t endanger others 24/7, AND could land a shot on a moving target. Yet, even after Ultra Magnus gave Smokey some encouragement, and even after Wheeljack genuinely complimented his clean shot...guess what Arcee said? “You’re not such a bad shot after all.”
Wha…What’s with the backhanded compliment? Why do you ALWAYS feel the need to insert/include yourself in ANY Smokescreen–related matters? Most importantly, why are YOU, of ALL bots, DOWNPLAYING HIS CLEAN SHOT?! Is it THAT hard to give him a GENUINE compliment? Yeah. No. Arcee’s JEALOUS. For someone who dislikes him, why does she seem SO obsessed with him, I swear…
Please do us a favor and shut your trap. Let Smokescreen and Wheeljack have their moment. Seriously.))
Not a day goes by without me lamenting the “what if” Smokescreen vs. Dreadwing or Shockwave…why do we Smokey fans never get the good stuff…? *Sighs*. (Ooh, that’s a good point! Especially since Miko did namedrop the Dinobots. Wait…correct me if I’m wrong, but wasn’t Wheeljack close to the Dinobots in G1…? Hmm…while I don’t intend to rob Smokey of a solo fight, but maybe it should’ve been Smokescreen and Wheeljack that faced Shockwave in Project Predacon, the former due to his knowledge on Predacons/Dinobots, and the latter because he intends to give Shockwave some payback after what he did to the Dinobots…just a food for thought).
Actually, I love your idea of a grudge fight between Wheeljack and Soundwave! If Arcee’s allowed to “settle scores” with Airachnid, and then Bulkhead with Breakdown and Dreadwing…Wheeljack should have a grudge fight with Soundwave! (Especially after Triage). “The Loyalist vs. The Renegade” concept applied to them is just…*chef’s kiss*. That said, I can totally see the two being foils/rivals (though, maybe it’s just me…but I’m starting to see the “vision” of Wheeljack and Shockwave being rivals/foils, mostly for the scientist aspect as well as other factors I mentioned beforehand).
Smokey’s a fast and eager learner! He’s definitely heard of and researched Soundwave before, but he needs to lock in for their fight. And…yeah…it’s unfortunate that Smokescreen joined in pretty late into the series. Made me wish he appeared in mid to late S1 instead, because we’d get a lot of good (hypothetical) interactions, dynamics, and moments, for sure…*sighs*. Slight depression aside, I LOVE those assassin–like weapons for Smokescreen! They’re awesome! Once again, he’s an opportunistic and prepared fighter, so he’s ready to face any kind of battle/combat scenario. Who needs a certain someone’s lecture when you can bring matters into your own servos?
As always, you delivered with your answers, Blade! Thanks so much for the discussion, and I hope you have a great day and week yourself! :D
