OTP : Stick 'em with the pointy end

This is an archive blog committed to Jon x Arya, romantic or otherwise. All credits to respective owners of the meta.

[jonrya-meta]

PSA to the old followers and the new:

Since the semester at college is ending very conveniently with the premier of got s8 and exams looming over, i wont be able to reblog any new jonrya breadcrumbs the show decides to throw our way. I will however stick by this blog faithfully for the release of twow, to properly celebrate this ship.

Thank you sticking by this little ship through thick and thin, over the popularity of central characters. It warms my heart to know little by little people do see more than meets the eye :)

[ourmrsreynolds]

Remember that time the ravens brought the news from King’s Landing and the first thing Jon asks is:

“My lord, what will happen to him? Will they kill him?”

The very next thing Jon asks is:

“My lord, what of my sisters? Arya and Sansa, they were with my father, do you know —“

#1 priority, find out if they’re going to chop my father’s head off. #2 find out if my sisters are okay. Contrast this with what Robb does when he receives the same news:

Bran would never forget the look on Robb’s face as he stared at their sister’s words. “She says Father conspired at treason with the king’s brothers,” he read … His fingers closed into a fist, crushing Sansa’s letter between them. “And she says nothing of Arya, nothing, not so much as a word. Damn her! What’s wrong with the girl?”

The predominant emotion here is disgust/frustration, rather than the acute apprehension/anguish we got from Jon. Now I am not here to argue that Jon cares more about his sisters than Robb does even though he totes does. What I am arguing is that the text shows us Jon agonizing about Sansa and Arya’s fates while we never get to see Robb doing the same. This is after all Robb “two girls are not worth a Kingslayer” Stark we’re talking about. In ADWD when Jon is likewise in a position of power he decides that one girl is worth a kingdom, and the consequences be damned. As @ashotofjac points out, “just like Maester Aemon Jon was tested three times in his vows. Once for his father, the second for Robb, and the third for Arya.”

[jonryatrash]

Gifting of Needle Meta

So even though Jon II is scheduled for next week’s reread, I couldn’t help myself. This scene is so damn important for Jonrya, and it deserves its own meta treatment outside of the other events of Jon II and Arya II. 

I’m just going to dive into this chronologically rather than thematically this time around and offer comments as I go. 

“I have one more farewell to make,” Jon told [Robb].

Look, Jon saves his final goodbye for Arya. Jon subjects himself Catelyn’s wrath to say goodbye to Bran–and we know he dreaded this goodbye because Catelyn would be there–before he’s willing to say goodbye to Arya. It’s important to him that she’s last. Guys, it’s important that she’s the last memory he’ll have of Winterfell and his childhood.

Nymeria was helping…But when she smelled Ghost, she sat down on her haunches and yelped at them.

Arya glanced behind her, saw Jon, and jumpted to her feet. She threw her skinny arms tight around his neck.

In my Jon I and Arya I meta I talked about how they interact with one another like they do with their wolves (ruffling hair/fur, etc.), but their wolves also interact with each other in ways that Arya and Jon do. This is the second instance (Arya I the first) where Nym happily follows Ghost or stops what she’s doing to interact with Ghost. Much like Nym, Arya stops packing, sees Jon, and immediately jumps into his arms. 

“I was afraid you were gone,” she said, her breath catching in her throat. “They wouldn’t let me out to say good-bye.” 

So Arya is desperate to say goodbye to Jon (remember, he’s meant to have left an hour before Jon II begins), and she’s outright refused. This instills a fear in her and distresses her so much that she nearly cries when she finds out that Jon hadn’t left without telling her goodbye. 

“…I have something for you to take with you, and it has to be packed very carefully.”

Her face lit up. “A present?”

“You could call it that. Close the door.” 

Wary but excited, Arya checked the hall.

The privacy that the exchange demands is the first of a few telling things about this scene. “Close the door” and “wary, but excited”–without context, those two bits of writing are easily read as sexual. Even with context though, it speaks to the thrilling, intimate nature of what’s about to happen. 

By then Jon had pulled off the rags he’d wrapped it in. He held it out to her.

Arya’s eyes went wide. Dark eyes, like his. “A sword,” she said in a small, hushed breath.

So Jon and Arya have the Stark eyes, which are gray. I’ve never heard them described as dark eyes though? Except for here. (Maybe I’ll discover I’m wrong during the reread). The point being that we have dark or darkening eyes, which is a common enough trope in smut fanfic for anyone to read into the line. Eyes dark because of what’s seen is desirable–in this case, the sword. 

The scabbard was soft grey leather, supple as sin. Jon drew out the blade slowly…” 

Look, at this point you don’t even have to read into the sexual connotations. They’re right there. Phallic object being gifted, soft to the touch and supple as “sin.” Sin, people. Word choice. So soft as to be forbidden by the gods, yet too damn pleasurable for words. Sin. 

She giggled at him. “It’s so skinny.”

“So are you,” Jon told her.

Jon drawing attention to the shape of her body. Obviously Arya knows she’s skinny, so it seems like a rather pointless thing to say. Should we read that Jon’s had a blade made in her image, with her in mind? Again, there’s nothing platonic about what’s meant to be going down. 

“…it can poke him full of holes if you’re fast enough.” 

Penetrative imagery. 

He put the sword in her hands, showed her how to hold it, and stepped back. “How does it feel? Do you like the balance?”

I can imagine them front to back as Jon tries to position her arm and hand properly. Why else put in the bit about stepping back?

“First lesson,” Jon said. “Stick them with the pointy end.” 

Arya gave him a whap on the arm with the flat of her blade. The blow stung, but Jon found himself grinning like an idiot.

I have to leave Jon’s line here because it’s too iconic not to mention it. That she then hits him and hurts him and Jon kinda digs it? Well, I’ll leave that bit to the fic writers out there. 

Jon messed up her hair. “I will miss you, little sister.”

Suddenly she looked like she was going to cry. “I wish you were coming with us.” 

“Different roads sometimes lead to the same castle. Who knows?”

…

Arya ran to him for a last hug…She set [the sword] aside almost shyly and showered him with kisses.” 

More touching with the addition of kisses this time. They’re certainly very physical with one another even though it’s purely platonic at this point. The foreshadowing is there. Also, Arya is threatening to cry for the second time this chapter. What’s painful is that she loves and wants Jon to be with her so badly, and she’s likely the only person in the world who cares that much about Jon. 

“All the best swords have names.” 

…

“Does this sword have a name? Oh, tell me.”

“Can’t you guess?” Jon teased. “Your very favorite thing.”

Arya seemed puzzled after first. Then it came to her. She was that quick. They said it together: 

“Needle!”

Again, another icon line at the top. What I love about ASOIAF is that Jon names Arya’s sword. It’ll be a remarkable sword because of the girl who wields it, a notable sword as famous as Ice. What’s more, by naming it Needle, it’s as if Jon’s gifting her a kind of femininity that Septa Mordane, Catelyn, and Sansa & co. denied her in Arya I. She will be proficient in needlework. Needlework and dancing became covers for her swordplay, and it’s Jon that allows her to appeal to these womanly arts. It’s meaningful. 

The memory of her laughter warmed him on the long ride north.

As one of the ladies in Jonrya chat brought up a few days ago, it’s kinda weird for the memory of your sister’s laughter to keep you “warm” on a long ride through some frigid terrain. And if we substitute “laughter” for “kiss”–more narratively appropriate, though not quite age appropriate for them at the moment–the sentence still retains its meaning. 

So basically this scene amounts to about twenty different levels of foreplay for Jonrya and GRRM’s readers. 

If you’ve read this entire meta and think that Needle is anything other than Jon Snow’s dick, well, I can’t help you at that point. The writing is on the wall. 

Needle was Jon Snow’s dick. - Arya II, AFFC, probably. 

[ourmrsreynolds]

Let’s talk about Jon and Arya parallels. Rereading Arya I, AGOT aka The One Where They Watch Joffrey Being a Little Shit, I noticed this:

“Any bruises they take in the practice yard must come from true born swords.”

“Oh.” Arya felt abashed. She should have realized. For the second time today, Arya reflected that life was not fair.

When was the first time? Earlier in the chapter:

It wasn’t fair. Sansa had everything. Sansa was two years older; maybe by the time Arya had been born, there had been nothing left. Often it felt that way. Sansa could sew and dance and sing. She wrote poetry. She knew how to dress. She played the high harp and the bells. Worse, she was beautiful.

What is not fair is that Jon and Arya are each being compared to a same-sex sibling and the comparison is not favorable. And we’re kidding ourselves if Sansa is not the yardstick against which Arya is constantly being measured, and found wanting. It’s different for Jon but I mean:

You can’t be the Lord of Winterfell, you’re bastard-born, he heard Robb say again. ~Jon XII, ASOS

Anyhoo since important things come in threes let’s look at the third and final time in this chapter that Arya reflects life is not fair:

“I hate needlework!” she said with passion. “It’s not fair!” “Nothing is fair,” Jon said. He messed up her hair again and walked away from her.

Of the six Starklings, it is these two who begin the series with axes to grind against the status quo. Disillusionment descends on Bran soon enough, but remember, this is the very first Arya chapter. When we first meet Bran he is not out there shouting about the world’s injustices - he seems pretty content with his lot, all things considered. And the scales don’t fall from Sansa’s eyes until well into her captivity in King’s Landing.

Because he recognizes the playing field is tilted against him, Jon is particularly sensitive to charges that he himself might perpetuate or enable any kind of injustice:

“A bully?” Jon almost choked on the word. The accusation was so unjust it took his breath away. “They were the ones who came after me. Four of them.” ~Jon III, AGOT

“I’m a better swordsman and a better rider than any of you,” Jon blazed back. “It’s not fair.” “Fair?” Darion sneered. “The girl was waiting for me, naked as the day she was born. She pulled me through the window, and you talk to me of fair?” ~Jon V, AGOT

Arya’s commitment to justice is no less ardent.

“Lady wasn’t there,” Arya shouted angrily. “You leave her alone!” ~Eddard III, AGOT

She’s just stating the facts … except no, the whole upshot of the impromptu trial is to sentence Lady, who wasn’t even there, to death for a highly dubious “crime.” Which is the ultimate unfairness. Lest we forget, this is what Arya was doing five minutes ago:

“You rotten!” Arya shrieked. She flew at her sister like an arrow, knocking Sansa down to the ground, pummeling her. “Liar, liar, liar, liar.”

So Sansa is definitely on her shit list right now. And she still stands up for what’s right, because Sansa lying by omission doesn’t make Lady guilty of anything. In contrast, this is what Sansa says to Arya the next time they’re having a big fight:

“You’re horrible,” she screamed at her sister. “They should have killed you instead of Lady!” ~Sansa III, AGOT

Granted, Arya has just flung an orange at her and ruined Sansa’s dress, so it’s not without provocation, but my point is not that Sansa can be mean to Arya - we already knew that. My point is that Arya’s commitment to justice overrides her otherwise understandable instinct to say hurtful things to her sister, even in the heat of anger. You know what gets Arya riled up? Unfairness, like when the Hound got off scot-free in his trial-by-combat. You know what gets Jon riled up?

“Not only a bastard, but a traitor’s bastard,” [Ser Alliser] was telling the men around him. In the blink of an eye, Jon had vaulted onto the table, dagger in hand. ~Jon VII, AGOT

At this point Ser Alliser has spent the preceding four chapters humiliating and belittling Jon but somehow Jon has managed not to draw a weapon on him. Until he utters this slander against Ned, who Jon knows is not a traitor. It’s the unfairness that gets him as much as the captive-in-King’s-Landing part. “My father is no traitor” is the mantra he repeats to himself, even when they lock him up in the ice cells with only Ghost for company, he’s still repeating it. Arya and Jon’s oft-discussed shared status as outsiders leads them both to value justice very highly because they know from the get-go that life is not fair.

[twhiddlegirl-deactivated2020012]

Topic: Why Jon/Arya could work in the Books. I'll explain in a quick Essay!

Dawn of Fyre 

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/139787-why-jonarya-could-work-in-the-books-ill-explain-in-a-quick-essay/

 St Daga  said this:

This has been a very interesting discussion. I just came across it tonight and thought some interesting points have been raised. Thanks to Dawn of Fyre for posting on a subject that is taboo.

It does seem like in the books, all of the published ASOIAF series, that there is a strong connection between Arya and Jon. They are the siblings that seem most connected to one another. Of course, this can only be because that is what GRRM intended for these characters.

GRRM is not a author who is worried, or shies away from, making his audience uncomfortable, or pushing the boundaries of what is considered acceptable behavior. So every time I see a response from someone who states, “well, I know he did that, but he would never do that, because it’s just really too much”, I laugh inside. Sometimes I laugh out loud! There isn’t many lines in the sand he is not willing to cross. Some times it’s hysterical laughter, because GRRM has hurt me with his story telling. and I shy from the pain!

I think the OP does a great job of showing how Jon and Arya both will be very different people on their next meeting than they were the day they both left Winterfell. They are both changed, hurt, damaged, and we have no idea what that could do to their psyche and future development. It could very well make any relationship between then that is adult/romantic/sexual in nature be an easier barrier to cross if they don’t feel like the same people they once were.

However, I am not sure that change in necessary for their developmental arc, if they are intend to have an adult relationship with each other. Maybe all those things just are intended to make in easier for us, the reader, to accept the relationship. Maybe the relationship would have developed regardless of Jon and Arya’s life experiences. Maybe the same feelings would have developed if they had both remained at Winterfell instead of setting out on different journeys? There connect has begun long before the books started.

Jaime and Cersei didn’t need to grow up apart to have sexual feelings for each other, and people can blame Cersei all they want for seducing Jaime, but he still allowed it to happen the first time and many times after, for years and years. We grow a bit numb to that relationship, and we think poorly of the Lannisters, so this is just one more thing to lay at their doorstep. And we accept the Targaryens permitted and even encouraged incestuous marriages to keep their blood pure, but hey, they had Dragons, so they could do what ever they wanted. Except they have not had dragons for well over a hundred years, and they kept on with the incest.

GRRM presents incest to us in this series a lot, or at least enough that is doesn’t leave our minds for long. There is the Theon/Asha interaction when Theon first comes home to the Iron Islands, and though nothing happens, and he does not know Asha is is sister, she know who he is, and she lets it go on for a bit. It certainly gives her power over him, but the incest hint is there. There is the hint that Gendry and Bella of the Stoney Sept are both Roberts bastards and there is no indication that Gendry did not “ring her bell” before sleeping next to Arya later in the night. I personally think that when Oberyn talks about his love for Elia, and how he tried to derail her marriage proposals away, that he might have loved her in a none approved sibling type of way. There are probably many other instances in the story that I am not seeing or thinking of, but GRRM has it as a reoccurring theme.

I don’t see why the Starks should be any different from any other family in Westeros. Just cause we like to think they are better than that, we have to realize this is a fantasy world, created by GRRM, and not what is accepted in our world with today’s values.

I think there is every reason to think that the author has been hinting at this with Jon and Arya from the very beginning. Even before his story outline was published, there have have been idea’s about Starkcest. Some things have changed in that story outline, but somethings have not. GRRM describes having a clear end game for some of his characters (and I think Jon and Arya are two of those characters) but the story does change and tell itself. I think they biggest mystery in that outline is the paragraph on the last page (IIRC) that is completlely blacked out. I think that is the reveal of Jon’s parentage, and I don’t think it is what most people expect it to be.

I don’t think finding out they are cousins, if that is the case, will make this relationship any easier for Jon or Arya to bear, but it’s not supposed to be easy, for them or for us. GRRM certainly seems to like to kick his readers in the gut.  And I think he will. He does that to his characters as well.

I don’t think that Jon and Arya are cousins, I think they will turn out to be siblings, as Jon is most definitely Ned’s son, and Arya is his daughter. (I am not trying to bring the wrath of the RLJers down on myself, I just have a different idea that could play out, and I am actually not married to any one theory, because none of us is as smart or devious as GRRM). Some of this idea comes from the conversation that Jon and Ygritte have where she asks him if he would sleep with his sister, and he doesn’t answer. At all! And he does think of Arya, even young and skinny when he thinks of his attraction to Ygritte. As previously described in this thread, it is not sexual really, but it is about nakedness, which is not usally how you think of your nine year old sister. I think it’s done to ease our minds into the possibility of more! And I don’t think that if Jon and Arya happen in the books, that the driving force will be sexual, more than comfort, but even the best of us feel lust at times. Even good old Ned!

Jon and Arya had a very interesting conversation in aGoT where he comments “girls get the arms but not the swords. Bastards get the swords but not the arms. I did not make the rules, little sister.” Arya I-aGoT I think that Jon and Arya will need to carry on the blood of House Stark, with her name and his bastard sword. Yes, I am wearing a tinfoil hat here, and I know it, but this conversation means something to the end game. Unless we truly do see a white wolf grace the banner of house stark, and not a grey one. Or maybe they will marry their sigils, and we will get a grey wolf and a white wolf, similar to Joffrey Baratheon’s lion and stag sigil.

Part of my reasoning of the incest is based on the Stark and Lannister conflict we have had since the beginning of aGoT. There are so many parallels and comparisons between the two families, except they are basically present at “good” Stark and “bad” Lannister, but we know that nothing is that simple in the real world, let alone GRRM’s world. Grey, grey, grey, a million shades of grey. I think GRRM wants to show us that people can still be guilty of the same things, but are entirely different people, with different goals, plans, ideals and temptations. He wants us to know that the Starks and Lannisters are really not that different from each other. That doesn’t make either family good or bad, just complicated. What a way to even the game board, by taking the “well at least the Starks are not into incest” card right out of our hands.

I think that the truth of Jon’s parentage is going to shock the crapolla out of the readers. And what ever characters find out about it. And I think a lot of readers will kick and scream, and throw their books across the room a la Red Wedding style, but then the storm will pass, and the reasoning will settle the turmoil. I trust that GRRM will tell his tale in a way that we won’t want to lynch him!

I think that the plot building between Jon and Arya is beautiful, and amazing really, because of the time lapse and difference of their plot arcs, but they always keep each other in their minds, over several years and five books. We seen at the end of Dance, that Jon finally felt he had a reason to step away from his Watch vows, to save his sister (even if it’s not really Arya, he does not know that). And I think that for Arya, hearing about the murder of the Lord Commander of the Nights watch, the Black Bastard on the wall, will be the thing that makes her leave the House of Black and White and return to Westeros. She will be seeking revenge, I imagine, but what she will find will be Jon. They, to each other, are the thing that is more important than any vows or promises made.

Thanks again to the OP for posting on a subject that many people reject out of hand, but all theories have something worth discussing and this one has several things that are worth pondering, even if they are uncomfortable.

Great response.

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/139787-why-jonarya-could-work-in-the-books-ill-explain-in-a-quick-essay/&page=7

[k85world-deactivated20180617]

Arya/Jon foreshadowing ?

Book: A Feast for Crows

Chapter: Cat of the Canals

Excerpt:

“… The biggest toms would seldom win, she noticed; oft as not, the prize went to some smaller, quicker animal, thin and mean and hungry. Like me, she told herself. Her favorite was a scrawny old tom with a chewed ear who reminded her of a cat that she’d once chased all around the Red Keep…”

Arya’s favorite cat out of all the bloody cats in Braavos is the cat that reminds her of a tom with a chewed ear she chased in the Red Keep. 

That tom cat is also referred to as ‘the black bastard’…by the guards of the Keep.

Conveniently enough guess who’s also referred to as ‘the black bastard’ (albeit with the addition ‘of the wall’) in A Dance with Dragons?

Jon freaking Snow…that’s who.

Arya not only chases the the black bastard through the Red Keep…she also manages to catch and kiss him.

Ummm….okay then. Is this all just a freakin coincidence spanning various chapters and five freaking books. I THINK NOT! 

[roseinthetardisclueingforlooks]

“The memory of her laughter warmed him on the long ride north.”

—

A Game of Thrones - Jon II

This line was the one that made me feel ‘uncomfortable’ the first time that I read the books (6 years ago).

I was like:

And I thought: “GRRM is trying to say something with this… It’s too romantic for two siblings.”

And then again:

And Arya… he missed her even more than Robb, skinny little thing that she was, all scraped knees and tangled hair and torn clothes, so fierce and willful.

And again…

Ygritte watched and said nothing. She was older than he’d thought at first, Jon realized; maybe as old as twenty, but short for her age, bandy-legged, with a round face, small hands, and a pug nose. Her shaggy mop of red hair stuck out in all directions. She looked plump as she crouched there, but most of that was layers of fur and wool and leather. Underneath all that she could be as skinny as Arya.

Ygritte trotted beside Jon as he slowed his garron to a walk. She claimed to be three years older than him, though she stood half a foot shorter; however old she might be, the girl was a tough little thing. Stonesnake had called her a “spearwife” when they’d captured her in the Skirling Pass. She wasn’t wed and her weapon of choice was a short curved bow of horn and weirwood, but “spearwife” fit her all the same. She reminded him a little of his sister Arya, though Arya was younger and probably skinnier. It was hard to tell how plump or thin Ygritte might be, with all the furs and skins she wore.

“I never meant to steal you,” he said. “I never knew you were a girl until my knife was at your throat.”

“If you kill a man, and never mean t’, he’s just as dead,” Ygritte said stubbornly. Jon had never met anyone so stubborn, except maybe for his little sister Arya. Is she still my sister? he wondered. Was she ever? He had never truly been a Stark, only Lord Eddard’s motherless bastard, with no more place at Winterfell than Theon Greyjoy. And even that he’d lost. When a man of the Night’s Watch said his words, he put aside his old family and joined a new one, but Jon Snow had lost those brothers too.

Needle was Jon Snow’s smile. He used to mess my hair and call me “little sister,” she remembered, and suddenly there were tears in her eyes.

ETC. ETC. ETC.

Me:

But now… now with three re-readings I love this ship.

Jonrya shipper for life!

(via twhiddlegirl)

[jonryatrash]

Aria, Arya, and ASOIAF

Recently in Jonrya chat I threw out a question about whether anyone had considered the association between Arya’s name and an aria, and the role that it might play in the title: A Song of Ice and Fire. It’s been something I’ve mulled over for a while now. After posing the question, @bloomray and I had a conversation about the possibilities. You can see her awesome meta on Arya/aria here.

I appreciate a lot in bloomray’s analysis, though I’m also interested in what it might mean for Jonrya as a couple. I figured I would offer a kind of “yes, and…” meta to go along with hers, and this is said meta broken into five topics. More than anything, this is a thought experiment. I’m just throwing ideas and evidence to support said ideas out there. I’m not really sure I have an investment in this other than for the enjoyment of it. It’s not a matter of proving anything to be true for me.

A Song of Ice and Fire

First, I want to talk about the title itself, and I think we need to deal with the title itself in two parts: (1) it’s appearance in the narrative, and (2) it’s source for inspiration. Here, I’ll deal with the title as it appears narratively in ASOIAF itself.

The phrase “song of ice and fire” only appears three times across all of GRRM’s published works. All instances occur in A Clash of Kings in Daenerys IV and V. Here’s the first:

“’He [baby Aegon] has a song,’ the man [Rhaegar] replied. ‘He is the prince that was promised, and his is the song of ice and fire.’ He looked up when he said it as his eyes met Dany’s, and it seemed as if he saw her standing there beyond the door. ‘There must be one more,’ he said, though whether he was speaking to her or the woman in bed she could not say. ‘The dragon has three heads.’”

The second instance isn’t of any real significance, just a reiteration of what Dany saw. The third instance—occurring during the same conversation as the second—we learn the following from Dany and Jorah:

“’What is the song of ice and fire?’”

“’It’s no song I’ve ever heard.’”

What do we get from this? For me, the most important thing is that we have no real answer in the text itself to the question of what the song is. It’s not an existing song that anyone would know well. So it must be a prophetic song then, and one that belongs to the prince that was promised and will tell his tale.

I hesitate to attribute a song of ice and fire to any of the other prophecies swarming about in ASOIAF. I do think it’s safe to say that a comet is somehow involved in the story of TPtwP/asoiaf because of Rhaeger’s reaction to the comet on the night Aegon was conceived. Other than that, I’m not touching these prophecies with a ten-foot pole. Things become far too unreliable and conflated when discussed by different characters.

At this point—looking over the evidence we have—I’m not entirely convinced that the ice and fire being spoken of is Jon. A lot of fans like to attribute the title to his story because his parents are Stark and Targaryen, ice and fire. I don’t think it’s necessarily wrong to associate him with it, but I don’t think it’s the best explanation.

Honestly, I think the ice and fire itself might refer to the coming Others/dragons, or the Long Night / Red Comet. I actually prefer the latter because of the Frost poem, which I’ll get to in a minute. But we might think of the Others/dragons as the military generals representing the ice/fire sides.

Frost

“Fire and Ice” by Robert Frost is meant to have inspired the title of ASOIAF. Basically, it’s an incredibly short poem about how the world might end—in ice or in fire. Ice also gets associated with hatred, and fire with desire. The end is rather anticlimactic; Frost says either works for him.

The backstory is a little more interesting. According to Wikipedia, Frost was inspired by a conversation with the preeminent astronomer of the time about how the world might end. The answer? Either the sun will explode and take out Earth, or Earth will escape the explosion only to slowly freeze to death. Immediately upon reading this backstory, I thought of the red comet that appears in ASOIAF. The characters seem to think it’s a sign of something to come, some part of a prophesy. Instead, I wonder if we might think of it as the sun/fire in the Frost poem—the fiery force threatening Terros/Earthos.

Others have argued that “Fire and Ice” is a hyper-compressed version of Dante’s Inferno. As someone who digs the Inferno, I’m here for this. Again, check out the Wikipedia for the poem article for more details. The take away from this is that fire becomes associated with the sensual—lust, taste, greed. And as we descend further into hell, it gets colder and the sins become sins of the mind—reason and thought, hatred.

The takeaway? I think we need to read the title on multiple levels, the first primarily with the threats to Terros/Earthos itself. Then we ought to look to a second layer—the magical representatives of either form of destruction. Then perhaps a third—the other, human players, and how these players might align with the parts of the title.

  The Waterstones Letter

I bring up the Waterstones’ Letter only to show that the series was already titled A Song of Ice and Fire when the original plot was still in play. And in that original plot, Martin describes the following:

“Arya will be more forgiving [of Jon’s inability to help the Starks]…until she realizes, with terror, that she has fallen in love with Jon, who is not only her half-brother but a man of the Night’s Watch, sword to celibacy. Their passion will continue to torment Jon and Arya throughout the trilogy, until the secret of Jon’s true parentage is finally revealed in the last book.”

At this point, we might say that the original plot is no longer in play. Things have changed in significant ways, certainly. I think the broad strokes are still there, to be honest, and people have written compelling meta on whether the Waterstones letter still holds water, as it were. I can still see a lot of the major plot points in what we have published currently, and I do believe that Jonrya could very well still happen.

For my purposes here though, we only need to agree that at the time of the title’s creation the story was deeply involved with a Jon/Arya(/Tyrion) romance plot / love triangle. From here, I’d like to address the third level of the title’s possible meaning: the human players and their roles.

 Jon

I think the one thing fandom can happily agree upon is that Jon’s birth is the merger of ice and fire. The house sigils and associations prove that much. If we think about the bit in “Fire and Ice” where fire becomes associated with the passions and senses, and ice with hatred and reason, we might see further parallels between Rhaegar and Lyanna’s union.

Confession: I don’t think Rhaegar/Lyanna happened because of mutual love, and there lies my bias. That being said, I don’t think my bias colors this reading too significantly. In the reason/passion framing of the Rhaegar/Lyanna narrative, Rhaeger represents sins of the mind—obsession with prophecy, for one. He knows he needs a third head of the dragon, and he knows that another child would surely kill Elia. For her part, I think Lyanna was probably in love with Rhaegar’s sad eyes and handsome looks. I don’t think she really thought through anything. Hell, if she hated Robert for his infidelity, why would she become the other woman to Rhaegar/Elia? That doesn’t make sense. I’ll be generous here and say that Lyanna ran away for what she thought was love, rather than being kidnapped. If you’re willing to buy what I’m selling here, I think the parallels play out quite well.

Personally, I’m more apt to associate Jon with ice and fire in this manner than some of the others. That, on this very human level it works out, makes the rest fall into place for me. In this sense, perhaps Jon really is the ice and fire represented in the title. (In the narrative’s song of ice and fire that belongs to TPtwP, it’s a little harder for me to figure out because we don’t know if he was born around salt and smoke for one thing).

 Arya and Jonrya

As @bloomray describes in her post, Arya also functions as a balance in the narrative. I’d also add to bloomray’s post that Arya is the product of a union between North and South—a union made as part of the Southron Conspiracy. The conspiracy also puts some important events into play, much like the union of Rhaegar and Lyanna. In this sense, the timing is ripe for a prophetic moment.

One thing I love about Arya’s name and the play with aria is that it’s antithetical to her character; she’s not a lady and does not like songs. Ned tells her that she’ll marry a king, etc, but baby Arya is very much anti-ladyship at the start of the story. Maybe she will marry a king. (Curious, also, that Ned says a king when the only king around is Bobby B and the crown prince is promised to Sansa. What’s up with that GRRM?). The point is that it’s contrast, but perhaps indicative of the role she might come to occupy in the future.

Now in terms of Jonrya, Arya is Jon’s everything. Literally just read any book chapter from Jon’s perspective for evidence. This theme of Jon and Arya’s relationship has continued through ADWD, which is why I believe the original endgame for them might still be in play. One of the key points in the Jonrya narrative is when Jon begins to break his oaths and take part in a war because of his sister. He can’t bear the thought of Arya in Ramsey Bolton’s bed. And he dies for it. And that death is going to be important, far more important than the show adaption would have us believe. Jon died for Arya, a girl named after a type of song. That love—and if you want to call it brotherly-sisterly affection, whatever—but that love is what will set Jon on a path to save the world.

I don’t think it’s too extreme to think that Jonrya’s love is what truly allows the song of ice and fire to come to fruition in later books.

Will they live? Who knows.

But their love is life changing.

In the end, I don’t actually believe that every little thing I’ve written here is even realistic for GRRM to have thought of. That’s not really how writing works. But I do think there can be some truth to it in broad strokes, and half the fun of meta and theory building is working with the source material like this. If you made it this far, thanks for entertaining my ideas. 

[aegon]

Great analysis!

The human approach and the consideration of the title in context of relationships is definitely a fascinating approach.

Just wanted to add another level reading of Fire and Ice, using Frost’s poem and Dante’s Inferno.

You’ve mentioned quite descriptively about how Fire represents the sins of the heart and Ice represents the sins of the mind. I’d like to add to your analysis of Jon and Arya.

Jon and Arya both have fallen - and will fall - to the sins of the heart and of the mind, respectively.

Mind - thoughts, hatred, reason

Arya - We know of Arya’s ability to hate early on in the books, and just in the way she loves, she hates deeply. Her list is an example of the depth of her hatred for those that have wronged her and the people she loves. Thus we have the sin of the mind, the Ice of the poem.

Heart - lust, greed, taste

Jon - “Love is the death of duty.” Jon breaks his vows for the first time out of lust and desire for Ygritte. Jon breaks his vows a second time for his love and desire for Arya. I don’t mean desire in a sexual sense here, but his thoughts have been rampant with bringing Arya home to him. He wants her back. He refers to her as his heart, its purely an emotional decision to ride to Winterfell. Thus, we have the sin of the heart - for his heart - the Fire of the poem.

I think this supports Jonrya.

As I mentioned in my meta, there is a theme of balance in the story. Everything has a counterpart. Death has Life. The Others have the Dragons. Ice has Fire.

Jon has Arya.

They represent Fire and Ice respectively, in context of Frost and Dante’s work which is alluded to by the title itself. So this Song, this ode or prophetic melody, could very well represent their story.

Of course, this is purely theoretical and for the lolz, but it’s fun food for thought!

[jonryatrash]

Jonrya Reunion Ramblings

During chat the other day, we got to talking about the inevitable ASOIAF Jonrya reunion. I’m sure @bloomray was somehow involved in this conversation because all our conversations usually end in tumblr metas. Anyway, this is less of a meta (I’m not citing sources here), and more of a feels explosion and food for thought. 

Part of the Jonrya Reread chapters for this week involved Arya being so utterly devastated by her “role” in Mycah’s death on the road to King’s Landing. She cried, she blamed herself. This is the death that basically started it all, and she barely even knew the boy. And it’s sad and tragic because Arya is so affected and self-loathing for something that was completely beyond her control. So we get all this in Arya II. 

But then, we began discussing what Arya would think about Jon’s death in light of what we know about Mycah’s death. Jon freely died for her of course. Look, if you’re going to argue with me on this point, please read ADWD because this shit is CANON.  And just as is the case with Mycah, Arya isn’t responsible for what Jon did. But just take a second to think about Arya’s reaction to Jon dying for her. 

I’m going to give you a second here because I’m sure you’re screaming like I was at the thought of it. 

But it’s not only that Jon died for her. Oh no. In some So Spake Martin somewhere on the interwebs, GRRM reveals that TWOW will feature two of the major battles set up in ADWD. I personally believe this is the hot mess in Meereen and what will become the ASOIAF version of Bastard Bowl. So not only does Jon presumably get resurrected. But he gets resurrected and goes to full-on war for Arya. 

Arya, my sweet bb girl, is going to discover someday that not only did Jon die for her, but he then started a giant war to bring her back to him where hundreds of people are likely to die. 

(Side note: there’s nothing brother-sister love about any of this. Robb wouldn’t even trade a hostage [Jaime] for his sisters during a time where they’d still been seen alive in KL) 

And when Arya finds all of this out? She’s going to be wrecked. We have Arya in canon wondering if Jon would still want her. She doubts her importance to the most important person in her life. Imagine her reaction to discovering that not only does he want her back, but he’s broken every vow and started all out war to make it happen. 

Not only that, but let’s think of Jon. Jon dies for Arya. He’s brought back, presumably (if we are getting a Bastard Bowl) picks up where he left off in terms of saving Arya with 100% more determination, goes to war, reclaims the North from the Boltons, and then discovers that his little sister is actually Jeyne fucking Poole. 

Jon went to war for a sister he hasn’t seen in two-three years. He went to war for a girl that everyone assumes is really, really dead because she’s not been seen (except for by a few characters). BB boy goes all in on a hope and a prayer–and without confirmation!–that Arya is actually Arya and that this isn’t a bluff. He defeats Ramsey only to find out that it’s a lie. He goes to all that trouble just to have his hopes crushed into a thousand pieces. 

My only hope is that they reunite soon after Bastard Bowl. Jon will be beyond himself when he sees her, which we knew that much. But in light of the fArya deal? But poor Arya is going to be a puddle of guilt for awhile.

And I’m just emotionally compromised even thinking about it. 

[aegon]

I love this. So much.

Can you imagine what this boy, this man who called Arya his heart, will feel when he doesn’t find her anywhere near the North and starts to believe she’s actually dead??

And Arya, the girl who’s been fighting to keep her true self hidden so she can become No One, finally learns that the North has raised banners in her name, that they’re risking their lives for Ned’s precious little girl?

Can you imagine it?

My body is ready for the angst and OTP feels.

[ourmrsreynolds]

Can we just take a moment to appreciate how Arya and Jon are actual braintwins who make a beeline for the exact same spot in the castle when they need to get away from it all? 

There was a window in the covered bridge between the armory and the Great Keep where you had a view of the whole yard. That was where they headed. They arrived, flushed and breathless, to find Jon seated on the sill, one leg drawn up languidly to his chin.  

Of course he was already there - he probably showed her the windowsill in the first place, years ago. It’s a safe place. Also this:

When Arya was little, she had been afraid [her Stark looks] meant that she was a bastard too. It had been Jon she had gone to in her fear, and Jon who had reassured her. 

How little, exactly, was Arya when this incident occurred? Jon would have been what, ten? And he had to put aside his own feelings (woe is me I’m a bastard) and just concentrate on reassuring his little sister. Because he will always put her first when she needs him. 

[laboratorioautoral]

Ship whatever you like. In the end of the day, we know how true love looks like.

[amster-l]

Antis: Shipping Jon and Arya perverts their bond.

Me: I think you mean shipping Jon and Arya takes their bond to its logical extension.

[thronesdetails]

“The scabbard was soft grey leather, supple as sin. Jon drew out the blade slowly, so she could see the deep blue sheen of the steel.”

[laboratorioautoral]

This line! Am I the only one to notice the sensuality in it? I mean, look at the choice of words GRRM made to describe a sword. It almost feels like a pact with the devil.

We all know that at this point Needle is sort of a forbidden object to Arya and Jon gives it to her for several reasons other than protection. It’s a way to show us how intimately he knows her desires and he’s not only understanding about them, he indulges them. The whole scene is about sharing a secret. They are doing something that’s not proper, acting behind Ned’s back and further in the book Arya says that she would never betray Jon, not even to her father.

The use of  the word “sin” is precisely what shocks me in this scene. I write fiction and I don’t take words’ choices lightly especially when I’m describing an object/scene that’s supposed to be very relevant along the narrative and believe me; this word is not there by coincidence. If you read it after you have learned about the original outlines, it makes you feel uncomfortable (not me. I ship it).

How does it feels to touch a phallic object covered in soft leather, supple as sin? Surely, not innocent.

[bringhersafetome]

Everything about that scene is so sensuous! It’s one of my favorite moments in the whole series so, obviously, I’ve read it a million times and, the more I read it, the less innocent it got.

Of course, I’ve been thinking all this time that it was me and my dirty mind and my wish to see Jon and Arya together in the future (and the knowledge that GRRM had planned it that way fueled my will) but now I’m thinking that maybe it isn’t just me. 

Let’s deconstruct the whole scene, shall we? (And, Lady Bee, your insight and wisdom would be much appreciated).

Arya was in her room, packing a polished ironwood chest that was bigger than she was. Nymeria was helping. Arya would only have to point, and the wolf would bound across the room, snatch up some wisp of silk in her jaws, and fetch it back. But when she smelled Ghost, she sat down on her haunches and yelped at them. 

During the whole series I’ve always thought that the direwolves mean something special, that each one of them is a symbol and that they represent something bigger to each Stark. (For example, Lady’s death could also mean the impending death of Sansa’s innocence. Bran choosing to name his direwolf Summer could mean that, in the future, it will be Bran the one to bring summer back to Westeros. Ghost as a foreshadowing of Jon’s death and possible revival. Nymeria, a conquering queen, a parallel to Arya’s future, and so on). 

With that in mind, I think that sentence is very important, specially complemented with this one right here:

They arrived, flushed and breathless, to find Jon seated on the sill, one leg drawn up languidly to his chin. He was watching the action, so absorbed that he seemed unaware of her approach until his white wolf moved to meet them. Nymeria stalked closer on wary feet. Ghost, already larger than his litter mates, smelled her, gave her ear a careful nip, and settled back down.

Ghost and Nymeria’s familiarity with each other and the stress the author makes on it, the relationship the direwolves have. We don’t see this with the other ones, and the mention of that simple action is unnecessary… unless, of course, GRRM wants us to think something by it.

Arya glanced behind her, saw Jon, and jumped to her feet. She threw her skinny arms tight around his neck. “I was afraid you were gone,” she said, her breath catching in her throat. “They wouldn’t let me out to say good-bye.”

We see it with the direwolves, now we see it with themselves. The familiarity, the affection, how comfortable they are with physical contact.

“What did you do now?” Jon was amused. 

Arya disentangled herself from him and made a face. “Nothing. I was all packed and everything.” She gestured at the huge chest, no more than a third full, and at the clothes that were scattered all over the room. “Septa Mordane says I have to do it all over. My things weren’t properly folded, she says. A proper southron lady doesn’t just throw her clothes inside her chest like old rags, she says.” 

“Is that what you did, little sister?” 

“Well, they’re going to get all messed up anyway,” she said. “Who cares how they’re folded?” 

“Septa Mordane,” Jon told her. “I don’t think she’d like Nymeria helping, either.” The she-wolf regarded him silently with her dark golden eyes. “It’s just as well. I have something for you to take with you, and it has to be packed very carefully.” 

Her face lit up. “A present?” 

“You could call it that. Close the door.” 

Am I the only one who got like, “Ooooh, Jon, what are you doing?” right here? It feels so intimate and private and mysterious. GRRM could’ve built this scene in a hundred different ways, yet he chose this one. 

There’s this present, but we don’t know what it is. Since Jon parts way with Robb, the writing builds expectation for this present and the first information we get about it? It’s forbidden so they have to close the door.

The way this is written it’s everything but innocent.

Wary but excited, Arya checked the hall. “Nymeria, here. Guard.” She left the wolf out there to warn of intruders and closed the door. By then Jon had pulled off the rags he’d wrapped it in. He held it out to her. 

The idea is reinforced. It’s so secretive, they need someone to guard the door. If the ages were different, older, I’m sure the reader’s first thought would’ve been something of sexual nature.

And, I’m saying it again because I feel it’s very important: there’s no need for this scene to be written like this, with that sensuous undertone… yet it is. And as a writer, I can’t help but think this is deliberate.

Arya’s eyes went wide. Dark eyes, like his. “A sword,” she said in a small, hushed breath. 

The scabbard was soft grey leather, supple as sin. Jon drew out the blade slowly, so she could see the deep blue sheen of the steel. “This is no toy,” he told her. “Be careful you don’t cut yourself. The edges are sharp enough to shave with.” 

Lady Bee made an excellent point on this already.

“Girls don’t shave,” Arya said. 

“Maybe they should. Have you ever seen the septa’s legs?” 

I read an analysis about this line in a forum of awoiaf.westeros.org so I’m quoting: 

Interesting is also their short exchange about women shaving. Aside that it shows how open are Jon and Arya with each other including bad jokes and deeply personal and awkward topics, I believe it have other layers to it. It could be nod to Arya shaving her head later (first as the Blind Beth IIRC) but it could be also read as a slight sexual undertone. Shaving (aside of shaving head) is connected to sexual maturity. Judging by Cersei’s second ADwD chapter Westerosi women almost surely do not shave any part of their bodies but in RW in culture GRRM comes from most women do, so do Novrosi women and it would not surprise me if it was a case in Braavos especially among courtesans. (x)

And with that I rest my case about that particular line because I wholeheartedly agree.

She giggled at him. “It’s so skinny.” 

“So are you,” Jon told her. “I had Mikken make this special. The bravos use swords like this in Pentos and Myr and the other Free Cities. It won’t hack a man’s head off, but it can poke him full of holes if you’re fast enough.” 

This one could possibly be my more far-fetched thought but I’m still mentioning it: They are talking about Arya’s body. So unnecessary, I think, to the narrative but it’s there (and there must be a reason). Plus, a shout-out to Jon’s thoughts about Arya being skinny (including the comparison with Ygritte) throughout the books.

“I can be fast,” Arya said. 

“You’ll have to work at it every day.” He put the sword in her hands, showed her how to hold it, and stepped back. “How does it feel? Do you like the balance?” 

“I think so,” Arya said. 

Physical contact. Must mention.

“First lesson,” Jon said. “Stick them with the pointy end.” 

Arya gave him a whap on the arm with the flat of her blade. The blow stung, but Jon found himself grinning like an idiot. “I know which end to use,” Arya said. A doubtful look crossed her face. “Septa Mordane will take it away from me.” 

This description feels very romantic, don’t you think? “Like an idiot” it’s a must reaction when talking about romance, it’s a giveaway and it’s almost a cliché in literature. Acting like an idiot it’s directly related to being in love and falling in love and how love makes us lose our judgement.

“Not if she doesn’t know you have it,” Jon said. 

“Who will I practice with?” 

“You’ll find someone,” Jon promised her. “King’s Landing is a true city, a thousand times the size of Winterfell. Until you find a partner, watch how they fight in the yard. Run, and ride, make yourself strong. And whatever you do…” 

Arya knew what was coming next. They said it together. “…don’t… tell… Sansa!” 

Again, reinforcing the idea of the secrecy and how this action is forbidden and, in Lady Bee’s words: “It’s a way to show us how intimately he knows her desires and he’s not only understanding about them, he indulges them. The whole scene is about sharing a secret. They are doing something that’s not proper […]”

Jon messed up her hair. “I will miss you, little sister.” 

Suddenly she looked like she was going to cry. “I wish you were coming with us.” 

“Different roads sometimes lead to the same castle. Who knows?” He was feeling better now. He was not going to let himself be sad. “I better go. I’ll spend my first year on the Wall emptying chamber pots if I keep Uncle Ben waiting any longer.” 

Arya ran to him for a last hug. “Put down the sword first,” Jon warned her, laughing. She set it aside almost shyly and showered him with kisses. 

A kiss, the biggest sign of love. Again: The familiarity, the affection, how comfortable they are with physical contact. 

And, please, this isn’t as sisterly as some people want to make it seem. I have a brother (two, actually, but I have my favourite) and I love him to death but I dont “shower him with kisses”. Not even when I was little and I used to follow him around everywhere. I don’t know siblings, not even one pair of siblings, that feels comfortable kissing each other’s faces. You only do it when your mother tells you to: “Say goodbye to your brother. Oh, come oooooon, give him a kiss” and you are like: “ugh, fine.” But, by choice? Nope.

When he turned back at the door, she was holding it again, trying it for balance. “I almost forgot,” he told her. “All the best swords have names.” 

“Like Ice,” she said. She looked at the blade in her hand. “Does this have a name? Oh, tell me.” 

“Can’t you guess?” Jon teased. “Your very favorite thing.” 

Arya seemed puzzled at first. Then it came to her. She was that quick. They said it together: 

“Needle!” 

The memory of her laughter warmed him on the long ride north. 

I think this one is self-explanatory. Because, please, interesting choice of words.

I quoted the whole scene so more people could join in the analysis and share their thoughts with maybe different lines that I didn’t use. 

I really think this scene, this very, very important scene, is everything but completely innocent. 

[laboratorioautoral]

The whole problematic in this scene is the age gap, especially because Arya is too young for us to consider any possibility of her acting out of sexual impulse without feeling uncomfortable.

I’ve said it before on another occasion and I repeat it. Arya is way too young to fully understands sexual tension and how it works, but we can’t say the same  about Jon. If you pay attention to the scene you’ll notice that Arya is quite passive along the narrative. Jon conducts the scene the whole time. He has something to give her, something secret to give her. He tells her “close the door”. He shows her a sword with a scabbard made of leather, soft and supple as sin. I’m not saying that he is doing it out of lust, because I really don’t think that Jon understands the reasons behind his actions fully at this point, but the whole scene has a very sensuous tone, almost like a matting ritual, or a courtship.The seduction of a maiden by an older and somewhat mature lover.

The constant mentions about Arya’s body in Jon’s POVs is something that bothers me. The last thing I want to think about when I’m with someone intimately is the resemblance the person might have with a member of my family (really, that would be enough reason for me to get dressed and call a psychiatrist). Jon compares Ygritte’s body with Arya’s! He thinks about Arya’s skinny constitution all the fucking time, along with “I miss her. I want to muss her hair and hear her completing my sentences.”

And the “ Jon found himself grinning like an idiot ”. I haven’t noticed until now, but this reaction if painfully cliché when you are describing someone in love. 

[gendrie]

jon is holding arya in those pics like a husband when he carries his bride over the threshold of their home omfg jon/arya confirmed i was wrong all along 

[m00nysblog-deactivated20170805]

Jon: *Thinks about Arya 24/7* Jon: *Compares Ygritte’s body to Arya’s many times* Jon: *Asks Ygritte if he has EVER bedded Longspear DESPITE them growing up as siblings* Jon: *Doesn’t deny when Ygritte asks if he’d bed his sister* Jon: *Compares any woman he finds attractive to Arya* Jon: *Gets all drama queen when he hears that Arya has been married* Jon: *Can’t possibly imagine Arya in a wedding dress or in ANY other man’s bed and not just Ramsey’s* Jon: *Thinks about ripping Ramsey’s throat and hopes that Arya would kill Ramsey with Needle* Jon: *Thinks that Arya is his heart* Jon: *Thinks that he is Arya’s home and that Arya belongs only to him* Jon: *Thinks about sending Arya to Bravoos to keep her away from Stannis making her marry to any other man* Jon: *Literally abandons the Night’s Watch to save Arya and kill Ramsey* Jon: *Repeats “I want my bride back” phrase three times in a row* Jon: *Literally thinks of Arya as his last thought before dying* Jon: *Literally dies for Arya* Everyone: Awwww!!!Look how much he loves his little sister!!!Its completely platonic and Jon would never have sex with his sister yuck!!! I want my future son to love his little sister like Jon loves Arya!!! I don’t know why some creeps would want to pervert their completely platonic bro&sis relationship!!!:)))))

Me:

[k85world-deactivated20180617]

Jonrya Foreshadowing

You know whats strange, in the famous passage where Ned tells Arya she will marry a king, she is told she will have sons…

“You,” Ned said, kissing her lightly on the brow, “will marry a king and rule his castle, and your sons will be knights and princes and lords and, yes, perhaps even a High Septon.”  To which Arya replies “…Arya screwed up her face. “No,” she said, “that’s Sansa.”…”

Then we see Jeor Mormont saying this to Jon:

  “..They will garb your brother Robb in silks, satins, and velvets of a hundred different colors, while you live and die in black ringmail. He will wed some beautiful princess and father sons on her…”

Now prima facie there’s no relation between the quotes. Although I beg to differ for several reasons :

1. Both Jon and Arya have king/queen foreshadowings present in their arcs.

2. Canon is littered with countless hints and foreshadowings about these two ending up together. Hints that continue all the way upto A dance with Dragons, so the whole ‘oh that’s only because they were originally supposed to end up together but all that was scrapped’ doesn’t really apply.

3. It’s ironic the way GRRM ties up these foreshadowings together. In Arya’s case, it is very adroitly disguised by Arya stating ‘That’s Sansa’ because conveniently enough Sansa is betrothed to a future king at the time. Whereas in Jon’s case, the foreshadowing is cleverly disguised because Jeor Mormont seems to be talking about Robb (who is King in the North by then) but it is only later in the series when the reader realizes the truth of Jon’s parentage does one realize …wait a minute…the words could very easily apply to the heir apparent not only of the Iron Throne but also the North (because Robb’s will wasn’t just made to keep up with Westerosi legal formalities). But most importantly, Jon is told Robb will marry a beautiful princess…which can be interpreted to mean Jon himself will marry a princess (Arya is born a lady but thanks to Robb, she is now a princess). Arya is told she will marry a King and rule his castle, which can be taken to mean that she will become Queen through marriage (Jon is not only heir to the Iron Throne but also a contender for the Northern kingdom). All in all, I’d say that these two quotes tie up rather neatly.

Y’all Jonrya babies will be boys. It’s freaking canon!

Martin, you sneaky genius you!

[gendrie]

i never realized how similar arya and jons reactions to being at the receiving end of the “you shouldve died instead” trope were but 

when jon goes to say goodbye to bran he’s respectful to cat even if he refuses to leave and tries to offer her sympathy. she still tells jon it should’ve been him. afterwards jon lies to robb and says that she was “very kind” to him

the girls get into a confrontation that ends with sansa screaming that arya should have died too. arya never tells their father about this even as sansa is blaming everything on her. instead arya apologizes and tries to make amends. arya tries to comfort sansa as well but has more insults thrown at her

arya and jon are too good for this shit tbh. the worst part is theyre probably used to having to bury any resentment towards these parties and accept this treatment because theyre seen as inferiors 

[ourmrsreynolds]

Friendly reminder that the Wall is really cold and Arya represents the warmth and companionship that Jon desperately craves and misses

This is the last line of Jon II, AGOT:

The memory of her laughter warmed him on the long ride north.

This is what happens in Jon III, AGOT:

The chill was always with him here. In a few years he would forget what it felt like to be warm.

So cold, he thought, remembering the warm halls of Winterfell, where the hot waters ran through the walls like blood through a man’s body. There was scant warmth to be found in Castle Black; the walls were cold here, and the people colder.

Even his uncle had abandoned him in this cold place at the end of the world. If he must be alone, he would make solitude his armor.

Here he explicitly equates subzero temperatures with emotional isolation. Because the last time he was warm, he was finishing Arya’s sentences.