I agree that they're both equally to blame, but comparing hating a song to GETTING RID OF SOMEONE'S BELONGINGS isn't it. You're comparing someone's feelings (even if you think they're unempathetic) to stealing someone's personal item and throwing it away behind their back.
Come on, now. I like Jonathan but those two things aren't comparable.
Jonathan is wrong too. Obviously. And he donated it. Though I’mb not sure if he actually stole it, but either way, he’s wrong, and I admit that.
But Nancy is also equally wrong. The thing is, if you go back to the first two seasons, it’s not just a song. That song is deeply personal to Jonathan. It somewhat helped him and his brother escape a brutal reality, and it helped Will survive another dimension. That’s a lot of emotional value attached to it. It's like a memory.
So no, it’s not just a song. And when your partner says I hate it, that is hurtful. It’s like Lucas saying he hates Kate Bush to Max.
For me, those two situations are comparable.
At the end of the day, it just shows that both of them failed to respect something that mattered to the other.
I’m just asking people to call out both of them, not just one. If you’re calling out Jonathan for stealing an object, which isn’t even clearly established by the narrative (did he actually sneak into Nancy’s room and steal it, or did Nancy give it to him and he donated it instead of returning it? Again, bad writing), then you should also call out Nancy.
Because she completely disregarded something that was so important to Jonathan. That song isn’t just an object or a preference; it’s a memory for him. It holds his childhood, his bond with Will. Dismissing it with “I hate it” is disrespectful.
That’s all I’m saying. It should apply to both of them, not selectively.
His whole character arc has always been learning to do what he wants/needs instead of constantly prioritizing Will - everyone came in clutch when there was an emergency, but Jonathan was sacrificing himself every single day
They really tried to make the Wheelers the new Byers in s5 with all the attention brought to Holly and even Karen, and tbh that’s where they failed (among MANY other things).
The Wheelers are interesting, they have an interesting dynamic, but you can’t suddenly change it fit into the Byers’ “dysfunctional but would do anything for each other” s1 and s2 dynamic (which is definitely what they were going for) because that’s not true. At all. And by trying to make them fit into this dynamic it just makes everything feel cheap and fake.
So they introduce this deeply traumatized, parentified boy with no social life, forced to grow up too early, abused by his father and neglected by his mother
only to make his entire personality “NANCY's BOYFRIEND.”
Then end the series with zero scenes with his family. No closure, no acknowledgment of his trauma.
But don’t worry everyone. He got into NYU, so clearly all the abuse, neglect, and years of trauma are cured.
Truly incredible writing. Someone needs to ban duffers from storytelling.
So Nancy literally admitted that she could've come for spring break but chose not to. And yet Jonathan is still the only one getting blamed for everything that went wrong in that relationship.
If Jonathan wasn’t communicating, Nancy also never made any effort to reach out. Communication isn’t a one way street. You don’t get to sit back, do nothing, and then act shocked when things fall apart. If Jonathan is a terrible partner, then so is Nancy.
And now it's wild how Jonathan gets dragged for donating the pink sweater, but Nancy saying she hates the Clash just gets brushed off. That clearly means a lot to Jonathan. It’s literally his escape from a harsh, suffocating reality. She didn’t show an ounce of empathy. She could’ve said she didn’t like it, but no, she straight up said she hates it.
If throwing away the sweater makes Jonathan a bad partner, then dismissing something that emotionally important makes Nancy an equally bad one. You can’t keep holding one person to a higher moral standard while excusing everything the other does.
And I’m done. Jonathan gets backlash for every single mistake he makes, while everyone else keeps getting a free pass. The double standards are exhausting.
The thought settles heavy in his chest, sinking in deeper as he watches Will get out of the car, rush past him, barely a brush of air where his brother should have been. Will doesn’t slow, doesn’t hesitate just makes a beeline for Max like nothing else in the world exists. He understands. Of course he does. Two years in a coma, two years of waiting and wondering, and now she’s awake. Of course Will would run to her. Of course that’s where his joy would go.
Still, not even a look. He stays where he is, hands tucked uselessly into his pockets, watching the scene play out like he’s standing outside a window. Will’s face lights up in a way he hasn’t seen in a long time it’s wide, unguarded and happy. Like really happy. For a brief, stupid moment, he wonders when the last time was that Will looked at him like that. Like he was important. Those smiles belong to Robin now. And that’s fine. It really is. He’s grateful Will has someone who makes space for him, Jonathan had wanted to be that person once, someone who sees him, all of him. He’d hoped to be that person. He’d hoped for a lot of things.
His gaze drifts, almost against his will, toward Nancy standing at the bd k of the WSQK van. The familiar ache tightens, thinking back to everything that just happened between them.
Hope, he’s learned, is a luxury he can’t afford. Every time he lets himself have it, it leaves him emptier than before. Like now, standing in the open air, surrounded by people and feeling completely alone.
His gaze swings away from the reunion and he turns his head to watch his mom step out of her car. Preparing for her to spot him immediately, cross the space between them, pull him into a bone crushing hug, tell him she was worried but glad he’s okay. She does none of that. She closes the car door and heads the other way. Purpose in every step, moving toward the building without so much as a glance in his direction. Something hollow opens up inside him as he stands there.
It’s ridiculous, really. Almost embarrassing, that a part of him thought today might count for something. That nearly dying might earn him a moment of concern. That the Upside Down, or wormhole, or whatever the hell it is, might finally tip the scale. His mom had seen Steve’s Beamer punch through reality itself. Even though she knew where they were, she had to have wondered if he was okay. She had to have been scared. He almost died today. That should mean something. But it doesn’t.
He thinks back to earlier, after the rescue mission, when they had reunited with the others. The drive alone had been brutal, revelation after revelation, filling in the gaps of everything they’d missed while they were gone. A crash course in a life that had kept moving without him. Including the fact that his brother is apparently sorcerer. It had caused something ugly to twist in his stomach, the way it had been dropped so casually. Like it was nothing more than a plot point from one of their D&D campaigns. Just another development, another damn roll of the dice.
He’d tried to keep up as everything was dumped on him, forcing himself to nod, to listen, to stay present. But the moment he learned that Will had tapped into the hive mind, really tapped into it and that son of a bitch Vecna had retaliated, ripped him out and left him trapped in a vegetative state while his mind was under siege, something in him had nearly snapped. It wasn’t just fear. It was the helplessness. The image of his little brother locked inside his own body, fighting something Jonathan couldn’t see or stop or take the hit for. He’d had to bite the inside of his cheek just to stay upright.
They had reassured him Will was awake, like that should fix it. Like the damage stopped the second his eyes opened. But the guilt still gnawed at him, because once again he hadn’t been there. He hadn’t held his hand. Hadn’t watched over him. Hadn’t done a damn thing. It didn’t matter that he himself had been in a situation that could’ve killed him. That excuse felt thin. It didn’t soothe the panic curling in his chest or slow his thoughts. The only thing that ever settled his nerves, the only thing that ever made it feel real and survivable, was seeing Will with his own eyes. Alive, breathing and here. Until then, every reassurance felt hollow.
So when he spotted his mom’s Ford Pinto barreling toward them, tires kicking up dirt in its wake, something in his chest finally loosened. A breath he hadn’t realized he was holding slipping free the moment he caught sight of Will’s silhouette in the passenger seat. Every instinct in him screamed to move, to close the distance, to get to his brother as fast as possible. But he forced himself to stay where he was, feet planted, knuckles tight at his sides. The second the car door swung open, he is ready with every intention there, arms already half-raised, heart hammering, prepared to pull Will into his chest and not let go, but instead he watched his brother throw his arms around someone else and his mom not even acknowledge him.
And just like that, he watches the two people he loves most walk into the station without looking his way, without pulling him along and without giving so much as a damn.
Do Duffer brothers and ST writers hate Jonathan or something?
Or do they dislike Charlie ?
Because I do not understand that how does one of the main teen character from season one becomes a side character in later seasons. And not only in the whole series but also in his own story.
I get that Jancy had to break up because apart from shared trauma they didn't have much in common and they were kind of scared to explore what they are outside of this relationship.
But Duffers said that the break up was important for Nancy to be independent. Okay I understand that but what about Jonathan. Shouldn't this break up be an opportunity for both of them to grow, learn, chase their own dreams and have their own journey.
I mean atleast make Jonathan a main character in his own story :(
Seriously, Jonathan deserves better
Hmmm... Earlier this year, I made this post called "Justice for Jonathan Byers", where I said it would be ridiculous for Suckers to hate a character they themselves created. But now... I'm honestly not sure. I am honestly without a definitive answer to that. But I'll try to come up with a response nonetheless.
In order to do that, I'll have to touch a sensitive topic for us Charlie fans—2017. Some people think Jonathan was tossed aside because of what happened back then, but if we look at the timeline, that's not exactly the case.
Jonathan's character was already starting to get thrown aside by S2, before that happened. Jonathan had a screentime of 30 minutes in that season, his shortest Season ever, only 5.9% of the season. You can check out Jonathan's screen time in all seasons in this post here. His screen time increases slightly in Seasons 3 and 4 (6 and 7.4%), but it's still criminal, and by then he's already nancy's crutch.
I guess, emphasis on guess, that duffers just realized they screwed up with their main teen character with the pictures incident, and instead of trying to repair it, they just decided to toss him aside and forged a back-up plan instead: pull in nancy and Steve. nancy wasn't an important character in season 1, Jonathan was, but suddenly she has a massive role the very next season. So does Steve, now a main character. One can also argue the incident of 2017 contributed to them deciding not to give Jonathan more screentime so as to not attract unwanted attention to their precious shit show.
As I said before in older posts, duffers are people's pleasers. They see fans liking Steve more than Jonathan, and they do just that: give Steve more importance than Jonathan. But they also know jncy draws a lot of attention, so they keep Jonathan around to please them. And now that the show is ending, it's okay to break up jncy without making stncy endgame. That way, they didn't picked a side in the war. They were trying to please both sides—jncy breaks up, but stncy doesn't happen.
Suckers are just trying to please the vocal nancy cult by giving their little Wonder Woman her "much deserved independence". 🙄
At least Jonathan realized first their relationship sucked.
I feel really sorry for Charlie. He was a powerhouse with Winona in Season 1, but was thrown aside in favor of fan favorite characters and mediocre scripts. On the bright side, at least Jonathan's fans are aware he was did wrong by Suckers and are actively fixing their wrongdoings via fanarts, fanfictions, and stuff.
One thing I would love in the finale of Stranger Things (that I doubt we'll get) is Joyce remembering she has two sons.
The whole season we've had Joyce fussing over Will. Not letting him be part of the crawls. Emphasising how important he is to her, how he must stay safe. Then seeing his powers, hovering over him when he faints, supporting him after that, saying she believes in him. Over and over again emphasising he's the centre of her world. Hopper saying she wraps Will 'in bubble wrap' but that she's a good mother.
Meanwhile Jonathan nearly died (again) in the Upside Down and...nothing. Zip. He's been struggling for a long time, he's just broken up with his girlfriend (though I think it was the right thing for both of them) and I don't think Joyce even talks to him?
But then pretty much the first thing we see her say to him in S1 is scolding him for not checking on Will.
The show is determined to show Joyce as this strong, loving wonderful mother. And she is. If your name is Will.
I think if your name is Jonathan she couldn't care less.
Hot take ahead on Jancy breakup: Jancy has been an unhealthy couple throughout the last 2 seasons. Like did we watch the same show? We watched them bicker in season 3, she’s not into his interests, she belittles his dreams and just acts completely inconsiderate. Johnathan hides the truth from her. He’s really unhappy. He feels constant pressure because of the cracks in his relationship. As a Johnathan fan, I don’t understand why people acted like Jancy were this near perfect couple that broke up “out of nowhere.” They did nothing but fight and get in jealous spats for 2 seasons! I don’t hate Jancy, and I don’t hate Nancy, and I don’t hate Johnathan, and I’m glad Stancy was just entirely put down like a dog because that was deserved on god. But can we be realistic?
I did want them to break up because Jancy is an unhealthy relationship.
But the way the Duffers are framing it, like they did this only so Nancy can be “independent” is a whole new level of shitty writing and thinking.
So what about Jonathan? What about his arc?
All this time he was kept away from his family, his own trauma was completely sidelined, his love for music and photography was forgotten, just so he could exist as Nancy’s boyfriend and be used as a tool for her development.
That’s not growth. That’s sacrificing one character to prop up another. And Jonathan deserved way better than that
Hi Joyce hater anon (but not really Joyce hater) what the heck did I say bro THEY JUST IGNORED HIM AND HE ALMOST DIED
I am definitely not a Joyce hater but damn that scene of Will and Joyce totally ignoring Jonathan after he’s almost died and he’s just standing there looking at them thinking maybe they’ll remember he exists and they don’t? that is bleak
Jonathan has long needed an extra dynamic with somebody. He's a prop for Nancy, Will and Joyce. He has no dynamic to Hopper, really, or El, who he should have some sort of dynamic with. His one friend has disappeared from the narrative, and said friend was so high all the time they didn't have a compelling dynamic. They even got sidelined all of season 4! He wasn't allowed to be friends with Steve in this season. He has nothing outside of Nancy and his family, and now Nancy broke up with him and his family are more focused on Will, and here we are at the season finale with nothing left for Jonathan to really do.
Started an outcast, ending an outcast (of the narrative and main cast) I guess. What a waste of an interesting character. They did nothing with him.
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