❣ Chile in a Photography ❣
Origami Around
YOU ARE THE REASON
$LAYYYTER
gracie abrams
Keni
PUT YOUR BEARD IN MY MOUTH
🩵 avery cochrane 🩵
blake kathryn
Xuebing Du
bliss lane
Cosimo Galluzzi
macklin celebrini has autism
Misplaced Lens Cap
The Bowery Presents
occasionally subtle
Mike Driver
Discoholic 🪩
d e v o n
EXPECTATIONS
seen from United States
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@kzele
HAPPY ANNIVERSARY TO TRANSFORMERS PRIME!!!
CLOSEUPS:
TSSM What-If: Peter Parker vs Selective Reporting and Sensationalism
This takes place during the one Venom arc where Peter's ID was released to the public and he had a whole crowd of paparazzi and newspeople harassing him. Basically, he's going to turn the tables on them. @hermesserpent-stuff, @just-anaverage-person, @blade-liger-4ever, @catch-all, @sharpmidnight @thyla-scene360
"English isn't my-"
Hush now my friend, and let me read the absolute beauty of a fic that you have bestowed this world and humiliated the first English speakers with
Dear everyone who is currently working on a Thing, whatever that Thing may be,
Good luck with the Thing. You can do the Thing. You will do the Thing. You just have to do the Thing.
Best wishes,
Someone who is also doing a Thing
TSSM What-If: Peter Parker vs Selective Reporting and Sensationalism
This takes place during the one Venom arc where Peter's ID was released to the public and he had a whole crowd of paparazzi and newspeople harassing him. Basically, he's going to turn the tables on them. @hermesserpent-stuff, @just-anaverage-person, @blade-liger-4ever, @catch-all, @sharpmidnight @thyla-scene360
my comic for terrible comic day 2026
im swimming at the lake and accidentally kicked a fish. this has never happened in my many years of swimming. sorry man
G1 is a masterpiece.
Would highly recommend to new fans of all ages.
Transformers G1, my beloved
If a fantasy world has an ancient tree of wisdom, that means it must also have young trees that are dumb as shit. Just giving terrible advice like, "the evil wizard is kinda hot"'
u guys know that 'balance' means 0 sith right this isn't even ambiguous in the source material
There is no "light-side" of the force 😭 there's the force as it naturally functions and then there's a corruption of that which is fully and unambiguously bad. I dont even know why you would WANT light = dark to be a thing here its so boring and done to death
Honestly, no matter whether there's a light side or not, I'm still gonna hypothetically pick the Jedi side because the Dark/Sith Side IS STILL EVIL. This isn't an order vs chaos thing, it's a good vs evil thing. There's a BIG difference in terms of the binary we're dealing with in Star Wars here. Order vs chaos would be more like a methods thing like Han vs Luke and Leia or Obi-Wan vs Qui-Gon. People keep treating the Dark Siders like they're just misunderstood Cowboy Cops to the Jedi's By-The-Book Cops. (Sorry if this kind of seems off track, I'm trying to tie a underlying certain mindset into this.)
While I'm at it:
The Star Wars universe, fundamentally, intrinsically, does not act like anyone can use the Force given enough effort/willingness to be open it.
If that was all it took, just a determination to have the right mindset and learn, Palpatine would not have needed to target Force Sensitive children, in particular, and mark them out as threats against his reign. The Jedi would be taking in anyone who was willing to live the Jedi Path, not just individuals with a particular affinity for connecting to the energies of the universe that needed to be taught to manage that in a safe environment. There would be soooooo much, for lack of a better term, "cultural appropriation" with regards to Force practices, akin to casual yoga moms dabbling in its "spirituality" or Force lifting things for the health benefits.
You think the criminal underworld of the Star Wars universe would not be aaaaaaall over giving their every mook and low level grunt the ability to choke people out? You think there would not be so many more Dark Siders running around in the galaxy if the only barrier between a selfish greedy bastard and the ability to use the Force was a willingness and discipline to practice at it?
You could maybe, maybe, make an argument that the lack of widespread knowledge about the Force is the reason less people are able/willing to use it but that only works during the Dark Days when Palpatine has suppressed and genocided away almost all knowledge of the Force and its practioners. (Still doesn't completely work because common asshats like Motti still know enough to know that belief in the Force existed and was a thing in the past.) But the Republic has at least a thousand and in the EU several thousand years of history behind it, in which the Jedi have always been a constant presence that people have at least heard about, even if very few have actually met one. In ALL that time, you're telling me NO ONE figured out the Force Feats = Effort + Work + Willingness to do it (and sometimes natural talent) hack?!
Like. Even before George officially put it into canon that Force affinity has a physical, biological component, the entire expanded universe has acted, and continues to act, like the ability to connect to the Force is something you either have or you don't have. There is no going from Not Sensitive to Sensitive, no going from Can't Use The Force to Can Use The Force, unless you meet a minimum, measurable, tangible threshold.
And sorry, if Sabine had at all met that minimum threshold, someone would have known about it before the events of the Ahsoka show. It would not have taken 25 years and Ahsoka's super special magic discernment to figure it out. Conversely if she was so low level that she evaded detection all those years, then she was too low level to ever be able to touch the Force.
Thanks for coming to my frigging TED Talk oy.
To be fair, it was probably going to be interpreted that way eventually after being a force sensitive turned out to be measurable and not completely binary. If you're on the threshold of sensitive enough but not quite sensitive enough, it's reasonable to interpret that as, 'yeah, I can do shit, but not as good, not as obviously, and not as easily' instead of 'I just missed the cut off to be a wizard'.
But yeah, Sabine is bullshit. You're telling me Kanan/Ezra didn't notice shit for the time they were together? She's way more interesting as a non-sensitive too.
I think Filoni actually hates the midichlorians, he keeps comparing the Force to like, yoga or karate, something that can be learned with enough dedication and work put in but that most people just don't bother with and dkdkdksjsksk it doesn't work like that, Hat Man!
I think the other problem with the argument above that what happened in the Ahsoka show was a natural extension of the midichlorians (beyond the fact that that's clearly not how Lucas was really writing the midichlorian stuff to work) is that Sabine is never actually shown as "not as good" as the other Jedi.
It takes her a little LONGER to access the Force, sure, but that's about it. And Sabine started much later in life and we don't actually know how long she was working with Ahsoka prior to that partnership breaking up. So if we ONLY account for the time we see in the show, then it takes her maybe a week to be able to use the Force fairly competently and confidently. For a comparison, by the end of Empire Strikes Back, Luke seems to be at almost the exact same skill level as Sabine at the end of the Ahsoka show (Luke at this point has had like one short training session with Obi-Wan, three years of self-training, and like a week or two with Yoda).
Sabine is seeing Force ghosts before Ahsoka does, or at least sensing them before Ahsoka does. She is Force pushing Ezra a long distance, and he is TRUSTING HER to be able to do that, he's literally staking his life on her being capable of pulling off a skill she could not have done like a day ago and has never even been able to attempt before. That's an INSANE jump in skill and it's far faster and, in some ways, MORE POWERFUL than other normal Jedi.
Which tells us that the argument in the Ahsoka show is not "people with a lower midichlorian count can still wield the Force, but less competently and with less strength than someone with a higher midichlorian count." It's "people with lower midichlorian counts might take a little longer to figure out how to access the Force, but once they can, then they're equally as powerful as anyone else is and possibly even MORE powerful than anyone else is, which is why the Jedi were so elitist and arrogant for refusing to put in the effort to train them." The ONLY difference between midichlorian counts is how quickly and instinctively you can ACCESS the Force, not strength or the abilities you can actually accomplish.
I may have been (slightly) less annoyed by the whole thing if it had been made clear that even if Sabine COULD hard work her way into using the Force at all, she'd always be able to do LESS than someone with a higher midichlorian count. Like she'd maybe be able to sense things a little more than she used to and manage a little telekinesis, but that's all. And at that point, the question becomes whether it IS worth it to train her if she's not going to gain all that much from it and if it's going to take a LOT of effort on her end to accomplish things she can probably manage just as easily through other skills she already has. Is it worth it to HER to try to wield the Force if she'll barely be able to do anything anyway? What does she get out of it? What would compel her to try when she knows it's going to BARELY be worth the effort she's putting in?
The other thing that made the Ahsoka show's portrayal of this super annoying is HOW Sabine gained access to the Force. It wasn't learning to control her emotions, it wasn't even truly hard work or training, it wasn't through some kind of new spirituality or belief in the Force. It was getting angry, getting desperate. It was letting her emotions get so powerful that it pushed her to finally reach for it. Which is the OPPOSITE of how that should've happened. Sabine should've genuinely had to LEARN SOMETHING, should've had to grow and develop in such a way that it allowed her to truly understand the Force in a way she never did before, in order to earn that ability to use the Force.
This would ALSO showcase how different it is for those with a lower midichlorian count, how they CAN'T access it instinctively by just Feeling An Emotion the way those who became Jedi often could. And those with higher midichlorian counts often have to undergo training in order to control their emotions so they DON'T use their powers instinctively in ways that might harm others. So someone with a lower midichlorian count should have to learn to control their emotions so they can access their powers AT ALL. Same skill, but different motive and results.
So yeah, I don't think it's fair to claim that the Ahsoka show's narrative regarding Sabine was an inevitable natural outcome of introducing midichlorians into the worldbuilding. I think that, like OP mentioned above, this is a result of Filoni HATING the midichlorians and wanting to sort-of undo the more "scientific" aspect of the Force in order to return to a flawed understanding of the worldbuilding in the OT that many older fans seem to prefer. If he WAS just doing an extension of the midichlorians narrative, it would probably look different than what we actually got.
Hallelujah, it’s raining memes.
like or reblog if you save/use.
That about sums up what he does in TFP.
@kzele
Hi, Blade! Hope your weekday’s been going pretty well!
I’m not sure if you already know about this, but I’ll share with you just in case.
So, there’s this Transformers toyline called Age of the Primes (AOTP). Apparently, in the upcoming Wave 5 of the toyline, our boy Smokescreen is going to be one of them! :D
I do have a few things to say about his design (Why does his chest look like that? And why is he frowning?), but…given that it’s been around 10 years or so since Smokey got a new figure, I’m not complaining much.
(Still, I’d say that the Go! Hunter Smokescreen is hands down the most accurate Prime Smokescreen figure. It’s based off of the Deluxe Class Beast Hunters Smokescreen, with my only gripe of the figure being that the colors are a bit off).
Going back to AOTP Smokescreen, his design aside, I’d like to focus on something really interesting.
The AOTP Smokescreen figure has a short bio. And…it states the following:
“Descended from Solus Prime, Smokescreen is eager to become a great Autobot warrior.”
If you listen carefully, you can actually hear the moment MY JAW DROPPED TO THE FLOOR.
Though, I've read that AOTP does have this thing where they say that a certain character is a descendant of a certain Prime. While this doesn’t apply to all characters, some characters do seem to be descendants of a prime, even if some of them...can be a hit–or–miss.
(And apparently…Prime Cliffjumper and Armada Red Alert are descendant of Prima Prime! What are the odds? And, get this…Heatwave’s a descendant of Optimus! That’s really interesting! Though, in his case, I wonder why that is, since Optimus did show up in Rescue Bots and all…)
Look, this VERY FUN FACT of Smokescreen may not be canon in Prime…but I don’t care. I’m eating this up. We’ve been denied/deprived of Prime Smokescreen content for too long that I’m willing to accept any Smokescreen–related crumbs that’s out there. Canon or not.
Plus, when you think about it…Smokey being a descendant of Solus Prime ACTUALLY MAKES A LOT OF SENSE! Especially when we see his interaction with two of her weapons, namely The Forge of Solus Prime and the Star Saber. (There’s also the Apex Armor, which he got from Starscream with little to no effort in his introductory episode. Though, I focused more on the other two since they’re more “prominent”).
In the show, we can see Smokescreen’s extensive knowledge of the relics, which includes The Star Saber.
Now that we’re discussing it, I vividly remember someone referring to Smokescreen as a “deliverer”/”messenger” to Optimus. The first time was when he brought/”delivered” The Forge of Solus Prime to a dying Optimus before using it to revive him. The second time was when he straight up delivered (“Special delivery!”) the Star Saber to Optimus in Deadlock.
Oh, and have I mentioned that he’s the only character aside from Optimus who touched/wielded both weapons at some point? And how he almost became a Prime…?
Smokescreen…really isn’t beating the biblical metaphor/”chosen one” allegations, huh?
In all seriousness though, despite the “disdain” that Prime’s writers had towards Smokescreen (which translated into how seemingly intent they were in making him the “bad guy” at times), you’ve got to admit, they weren’t subtle when it comes to establishing Smokescreen’s connection to Primehood/the Primes.
I mean, when you think about it...Smokescreen has a connection to THREE PRIMES.
Let’s review. He’s apparently a descendant of Solus Prime, used to work as Alpha Trion’s bodyguard in the Hall of Records, and is now Optimus Prime’s subordinate under Team Prime.
…I need to sit down. Because THREE PRIMES is crazy. Prime–like personality aside, it’s no wonder that Alpha Trion deemed Smokey as being worthy of Primehood.
…And it’s no wonder why Alpha Trion essentially made Smokescreen pretend as if he didn’t exist in the Hall of Records.
Maybe he foresaw the kind of threat Smokescreen is up against if his connection to the Primes/his possible Primehood is ever discovered by the Decepticons…who knows?
Okay, I think I need to take off my tinfoil hat for real now.
All in all, while I didn’t expect to see this kind lore drop from a toyline, especially 10 years after we had our last figure of him…canon or not, I’ll take it! And, hey! If it means that it’d get more people to acknowledge/recognize the implicit yet highly integral part that Smokescreen plays in Prime, then I see this as an absolute win!
I think I’ll end my ramblings/info dumping here. It’s hard not to be excited when Smokey’s under the spotlight again, especially with all of that lore dump. Our boy deserves it!
As always, thanks a lot for reading, and I’m looking forward to your thoughts, Blade :)
Hey Jazzi! I'm going good so far. How about you?
I didn't know that, but I gotta grab that toy and Smokey's Go! one now. (I kid you not, for years I was unaware that there were any toys for TFP. The marketing team failed about as badly as the series' writers on that front.) Thanks for the info!
In defense of the guys making his toy, they do have TFP's transformation sequence/stuff to work around, so the chest is probably the best they can manage. The frown is criminal, though.
Beast Hunters Smokescreen was....a choice. Love his Go! Hunter on the right, though! Especially since he seems to be legitimately smiling. That's our boy!
SOLUS FREAKING PRIME IS HIS ANCESTOR?!?!?!?!
No wait, that makes so much sense! Like, he's always compassionate, yet comes off as "insensitive" or whatever, but that is almost EXACTLY the same problem Solus had: she was compassionate and caring, but had a short temper, so there's low-key an overlap between them there.
Honestly, that "energon bloodline" works much better than Polarities. I do like the idea of Polarities, but it's....mind-numbing, quite frankly.
(Really? Prima for Cliff and Red Alert? I'd have personally classified Red as Solus' descendant, but I can kinda see it. Oh that is sweet with Heatwave! I think it's because Optimus was supposed to be the reincarnation of the Thirteenth Prime, but that's also a separate ball of wax I don't wanna deal with right now. Heh, Excellion/Hotshot being Amalgamous' grandkid makes so much sense...)
Hey, TFP canon went out the window a long time ago, plus is subject to change even with how it was written. Far as I'm concerned, Smokescreen being Solus' descendant is just as true as Optimus' color scheme being red, white/silver, and blue!
Ohhhhh shoot. You know, this makes Smokescreen's knowledge of history and the Primes make all the more sense. Why wouldn't a descendant of Solus be interested in her creations, in understanding their lore, how they work, and the powers they have? This all tracks so well, it's like it was set up from the beginning to turn out this way!
Oh yes, that is also an excellent point. Come to think of it, no one else on the team knew as much as he did about the Artifacts of the Primes, did they? Except Optimus of course, which heightens the connection here all the more...!
I vaguely seem to recall that as well - and given that his white color scheme and doorwings make him look angelic-ish, that is beautiful. Especially now that we stop and consider how he really was their guardian angel 9/10, and that's before we take into account the Primes' relics!
Heheheheh, the plot thickens....
He really isn't (that link isn't working, I'm so sorry!) Heck, even with how they tried framing Smokescreen as the one who's "wrong/a problem", the TFP writers couldn't make him stop being the heroic, biblical-like hero he is. I'm so proud of you, Smokey, and so's Chromia and the Mithril Sea Squad!
Wait a tic.
The knowledge of Alpha Trion, the "blood" of Solus flowing through his veins, and learning from Optimus Prime....no wonder the guy is so amazing and tough! He's got the best of each of these three keeping him going and adapting!
Given what he'd later go through, keeping Smokescreen in a position where he had to "pretend to not exist" likely saved his life. No wonder Alpha Trion kept that up and trusted him with the Matrix.
Pity, my brain is going into overdrive now! XD
I'll take it too, Jazzi! Especially if it means Smokescreen gets the recognition he deserves. This is so cool, thank you for the information!
I'm stoked now, too! I can't wait for more, and I thought I'd never see the day where Smokescreen was given the spotlight. Thanks again, Jazzi!
You're welcome, and let me know if I missed anything. Take care, Jazzi, and have a good week!
@somereaderinblue @kzele @escapistsatellite @brightrednight Super cool news that @jazzimena found!!!
@jazzimena @blade-liger-4ever Ah, one observation that I forgot to mention to you guys on this particular discussion that I didn't see being mentioned by anyone else. Didn't the Requiem Blaster get used against Smokescreen to render him unconscious by Soundwave in Hard Knocks? And wasn't the Requiem Blaster the thing that Megatronus used which ended Solus' life? Seems kind of a case of Solus/her descendants having a bad history with that thing, if so. Especially considering that Soundwave is a follower of Megatron who, in turn, (in this toyline) is a descendant of the original Megatronus.
I hope this note wasn't too conspiracy theory-esque. It came to me while reviewing your earlier replies/reblogs about the Soundwave vs Smokescreen ask response.
I've touched on this ages ago with you, Blade, but maybe you'd appreciate an added parallel. So, we have an exceptionally talented stealth-oriented bot who is basically carrying the faction at this point and who the lone female of team decides to have a one-sided beef with despite the more professional bot not really caring about grudges. The female in question has been given more power/authority than she can be realistically trusted with, despite past history of abandoning the cause for her own personal wants. And despite her technically outranking the more competent bot, the gap in couldn't be more vast when it comes to loyalty to their shared cause/leader, competence, and teamwork.
Now, who fits that description better? Soundwave and Airachnid or Smokescreen and Arcee. Bonus points for the names of each role starting with the same letters.
(No pressure but feel free to add onto this if you like, @jazzimena)
So, while the grudge from Airachnid is brief, it also fits! Dang, they really are like the Decepticon equivalent of Smokescreen and Arcee, especially since both Airachnid and Arcee tend to just go off on their own to have a throwdown of sorts. Meanwhile there's Smokescreen and Soundwave winning the day for their respective sides while flat out ignoring the beef the girls have with them.
Gosh, Smokey going up against either of them would be epic, though I do owe @jazzimena (and myself at this point) a Smokescreen vs Dreadwing fight. As she pointed out, the dude zeroed in on Smokescreen. Now THAT is a fight I'd love to see!
Hmm. I can see a hypothetical fight between Smokescreen and Airachnid more-or-less resulting in Smokescreen being forced to go "confrontational" in his fighting style, at least once he managed to corner her - supposing he doesn't just phase her into a wall, which he could do rather easily/quickly. Now Soundwave, that would require equal amounts of trickery and strength from our Elite Guardsman. They're both very powerful despite their slim builds (Smokescreen's kicks can be qualified as deadly weapons, while Soundwave basically bodied Wheeljack even without the tentacles/stolen katanas), so that...........
Oh, the absolute cut loose of sheer power on both sides of the fight would be LEGENDARY!
Thank you for the tag @blade-liger-4ever & @kzele!
First of all, WOW! You two are really onto something with this parallel that I’ve never thought of before! Especially between Smokescreen and Soundwave. And second of all, I’m loving the possibilities that’d come out of a hypothetical fight between Smokescreen with Soundwave and/or Airachnid!
To preface, let me say that Bee can stay as Knock Out’s rival/foil (tbh I personally think KO’s better off as Ratchet’s rival/foil since they’re both medics and the parallels in their personalities). Also, this is just me, but I don’t really see Bee and Soundwave being foils/rivals. Yes, they’re both non–verbal and it would’ve been interesting to further explore that tidbit, but unsurprisingly, TFP never did anything with it. So, it’s difficult for me to see the “vision”.
On the flip side, Smokescreen and Soundwave being rivals/foils really tracks if you look at the differences/parallels in their personality and design! Smokescreen is boisterous and expressive, while Soundwave is silent and expressionless. Smokescreen dons a white and vibrant/flashy paintjob, while Soundwave has a dark/black paintjob and is basically robo–Slenderman. Smokescreen has a ground–based alt mode while Soundwave could fly.
There’s also their similarities. For starters, both are VERY loyal to their factions and would do anything for their team/leaders. Smokescreen was pretty verbal about his disappointment for being unable to serve the Autobot cause, and his undying loyalty is reflected via his “there’s nothing I wouldn’t do for you guys” line (kindly ignore Miss Insensitive’s response, please). Meanwhile, Soundwave has stood by Megatron’s side from Day One, and Megatron has nothing but good things to say about him; a courtesy he never really extends towards other Decepticons.
As mentioned prior, Smokescreen and Soundwave have brought nothing but wins for their respective factions (you can’t help but wonder how their respective teams/factions would’ve fared had they been absent). I also realized that they managed to escape from the enemy’s capture solo, but not before pulling a final “in your face!” (Smokescreen took the Omega Keys in Inside Job, while Soundwave kidnapped Ratchet in Minus One). Let’s also not forget how they’re the stealthiest bots in their respective factions, and that others could learn a thing or two from them.
Going back on their loyalty, they’re also the ones who CAN AND WILL stand up for their leaders while others stood by and watched. Smokescreen openly defended Optimus’ decision against Ratchet’s crash out, while Soundwave stood his ground against Airachnid’s plan of leaving Earth (and Megatron) behind. Look, if TFP ever has a last bot standing scenario from each faction (especially loyalty–wise), then it’d definitely be Smokescreen and Soundwave. (Or alternatively, if there's ever a "defend my leader" competition, they'd be in the front-lines)
(Note: Taking on a more serious turn…these two would willingly off themselves for their factions. Regarding Soundwave, I’m reminded by this scene from Evangelion when Rei, the blue–haired girl, confirms Asuka’s assumption/accusation that she’d off herself if her commander told her to via a simple "of course". I think a similar scenario could've played out with Soundwave and...maybe Starscream due to his envy...? Anyways, keep in mind that Soundwave’s the guy that stood by Megatron’s side from way back and still does now. He’s not going anywhere, and he’d do anything for Megatron and the Decepticon cause. If one day, Megatron deems his sacrifice to be necessary in furthering the Decepticon cause, then Soundwave would gladly do so.
I don’t mean to make this depressing, but Smokescreen’s just as willing to do so. Recall his “There’s nothing I wouldn’t do for you guys” line, and if I may add your “When the Dust Settles” fic as reference @blade-liger-4ever, the way he willingly took those extreme measures to defeat Tarn…? He’d do it again in a heartbeat (poor Chromia, though…). Smokescreen’s selflessness is…both a good and a bad thing. If someone from Team Prime asked him about the implications behind his words or if he’d be ready to lay down his life, he’d probably smile and reply, “Remember that time I said I’d do anything for you guys? I meant every word.”
Also, years ago, I vividly recall seeing a “what if” fanart of what’d happen had Smokescreen himself was the Omega Key. It depicted Smokescreen looking upwards with closed optics, his arms stretched to his side and taking a step forward, ready to jump into the Omega Lock to sacrifice himself. The piece was called “destiny”, which is…haha…maybe it’s a good thing I can’t find the fanart anymore)
…anyways, moving on to a lighter less–depressing topic!
Still on Smokescreen and Soundwave, I think you could expand on them being rivals/ foils. Inspired from this post, Soundwave would definitely view Smokescreen as a threat after learning of all his “feats”. While all Autobots are automatically a threat to the Decepticon cause…Smokescreen is different. He’s a newcomer, yet he managed to foil Lord Megatron’s plans for far too many times. Soundwave has faced his fair share of annoying Autobots, but…he’d be lying if he said that things aren’t getting personal with Smokescreen.
On the flip side, despite having every right to hold a grudge (to everyone, really)…Smokescreen’s not that type of guy. If anything, he thinks that Soundwave’s both crafty and creepy. He doesn’t appreciate Soundwave blindsiding him at his lowest and electrocuting him during his escape…but then again, Decepticons always play dirty. So…Smokescreen’s not very surprised.
(Note: You know, the vivid imagery of Soundwave having a one–sided beef with Smokescreen is pretty funny ngl. They have this constant back and forth where they try to one–up each other, and the difference is that Smokescreen takes it easy while Soundwave is SERIOUS, like this scene where Laserbeak intentionally rams into Smokescreen after getting shot by him, which I personally interpret as light pettiness from Soundwave’s/Laserbeak’s part. Anyways, can we talk about Smokescreen’s clean shot and how he managed to chip off a piece of Laserbeak? That was awesome! Once again, he’s the ONLY one who gets things done *sighs*).
All jokes aside, Smokescreen and Soundwave are the most loyal bots from their respective factions. Not to be dramatic, but if they ever traded blows, they’re not fighting for themselves, but rather, they’d be fighting in the name of their leaders and their faction. I’ll go back on this in a bit.
As I’ve also discussed with Blade, we felt that Smokescreen was robbed from having a proper one–on–one fight with the ‘cons. Dreadwing zeroed in on Smokescreen (before Bulkhead had his forced MC moment) in Hard Knocks andthere was a concept art of him solo–ing Shockwave in an early version of Project Predacon. We REALLY were robbed…*sigh*.
Anyways, a hypothetical Smokescreen vs. Soundwave or Airachnid would be awesome! I yearn for a proper Smokescreen vs. Soundwave fight because, as I said before, there’s the symbolism of them representing their respective leaders and faction. For a bit of comparison, in Triage, we saw how Soundwave managed against Wheeljack and his “coming at you full–force” fighting style (I recall someone describing Soundwave’s fighting style as “using your opponent’s strength against themselves”).
That said, I’m pretty curious to know how Soundwave would manage against an agile and opportunistic mid–to–closed–ranged fighter like Smokescreen. I’m (very) biased, but I’m confident that Smokescreen can give Soundwave a run for his money! (Smokescreen might’ve already learned about Soundwave’s gladiatorial past due to his close association to Megatron, so he’d be sure to take notes of his moves and may even learn a thing or two from available records. He’s an eager learner, people! He’ll also have to avoid Soundwave’s tentacles, but once that’s out of the way, he’s good to go).
As for a hypothetical Airachnid vs. Smokescreen fight…aside from this funny scene being the only time they ever “interacted”, Smokescreen has an advantage due to his agility and slighter build. Partners and Crossfire showed that bigger bots (read: Bulkhead and Optimus, then Dreadwing and Breakdown) don’t fare well against Airachnid’s speed. Since Bee’s the only one who managed to get the drop on Airachnid in Partners, Smokescreen could definitely do the same. Just like with Soundwave, Smokescreen has to keep an eye on Airachnid’s spider legs and webs (him not owning a sharp weapon might be a setback). But given his resourcefulness, I’m very sure he’ll manage.
He could try and consult a certain Two–Wheeler on how to face Airachnid…but I doubt she’d willingly impart her knowledge given the fact that she apparently has more beef/grudge with him than she does with STARSCREAM. Smokescreen might have to figure things out on his own...but then again, this isn’t his first rodeo.
Phew. I think that does it! I’m loving these Smokescreen–related discussions so far, they’re super fun and interesting! Once again, thanks a bunch for the tag @kzele and @blade-liger-4ever! It’s always so fun to talk/discuss about Smokescreen with you two! :D
Yeah, I think Knock Out does work better for Ratchet and to a lesser extent Bumblebee. Soundwave and Bumblebee would be boring in that they have no on-screen beef or real reason for a beef, plus there's no dialogue to work off of in that case even if they did. Pre-Smokescreen, you could've had a Soundwave and Ratchet beef. They might've known each other pre-War back when Optimus and Megatron were Orion Pax and Megatronus. Not to mention that they have opposite flaws when it comes to their leaders. Ratchet questions Optimus too much/rather rudely sometimes (especially when on drugs) and Soundwave doesn't question his leader at all (even when on the Unicron certified crystal meth).
Come to think of it, Optimus and Soundwave both deal with the "friends don't let friends do drugs" scenario. Maybe they should form a support group where they complain about their druggie friends and/or do battle instead. It'd still be better than the Bumblebee vs Soundwave thing that never happened and had no reason for happening.
I've said this before to Blade but Bumblebee's best bet for a rival that should've happened is Dreadwing. On what grounds? Dreadwing should go after the scout for killing Skyquake with Optimus being a secondary target. Optimus would have to defend his kid while be like, "Ummm, your bro chose to come after us in single combat after I asked to cease hostilities. We initially just tried to beat the stuffing out of him but he wouldn't quit so my kid defended himself. What do you want me to say? We buried him and gave him a funeral and everything."
(By contrast, it'd be interesting to have Dreadwing despise Bumblebee while nursing a slow-burn respect for Smokescreen. The rookie wasn't even on Earth when Skyquake was killed, has a minimal kill count due being in stasis while Cybertron fell, very loyal but in a well-informed kind of way, pragmatic, etc. In other words, Smokescreen has virtually no emotional baggage to stop Dreadwing from finding him more tolerable than his fellows.)
The design foils are on point, especially when they're both underestimated in part due to those designs. Soundwave looks skinny and Smokescreen looks flashy, with neither one given full dues until it's too late from unfamiliar opponents/allies.
Yeah, that loyalty thing is very much why I latched onto the comparison. Blind loyalty born out of knowing someone personally to the point where you can execute any order no matter how heinous. Fierce, idealistic loyalty that's born out knowing/learning about a person from a distance but that's backed up by a lot of knowledge, both impersonal and personal.
Exactly! Neither of them panic when captured, instead biding their time to escape. They also both have a sense of humor mixed into their escapes, weirdly enough. If there's one thing that Smokescreen gets underestimated for that Soundwave doesn't, it's stealth. That seems to make sense until you realize that Smokescreen own teammates underestimate him in that same category while accepting Bumblebee's black-and-yellow paint job, Optimus' red-and-blue- paint job (and size), and Wheeljack's own white-red-green color scheme as blending-in/stealth material.
Oh, def. Both of them have kept their factions from crumbling the moment the leader is gone. Heck, if Smokescreen was around for the beginning of season 2, you know he would've snuck in that warship and grabbed Optimus/Orion himself while the others were arguing. (Honestly, he probably could've snuck in while Arcee was making herself as noisy as possible before Soundwave groundbridged her out and said, "Hey, you're Orion, right? Alpha Trion told me a lot about you." From there, I feel gaining his trust would've been super easy for a kid as nice as Smokescreen.)
I don't want to think about a topic as horrible as that level of self-sacrifice so I'm skipping it entirely. Forgive me, @jazzimena.
For sure, Soundwave wouldn't be happy at being foiled at all, let alone by the least experienced of the Autobots. What'd make it worse is that if this bot can do this as a rookie and being so young, what's he going be like in dealing with when he's older/more experienced?
Smokescreen shrugs a lot of things off easily so Soundwave being a jerk is no surprise. He'd be more disappointed in himself for getting blindsided, honestly.
Haha, that'd be great! Smokescreen is just like, "Dang, that was close! This must be something important if he's this determined to get me!" Meanwhile, Soundwave is internally just going, "Kill him, kill him, kill him. I'm getting this relic today and I don't want to deal with this kid showing me up in the future."
No, for real. They don't really do personal vendettas/goals that much.
Sounds really interesting and I've got to read up on it, for sure. Darn it, I hate executive meddling. . .
Wheeljack's Wrecker style goes better against Starscream and/or Knock Out. Oh, wait. We've never gotten a fight between KO and Jackie, have we? That would've been neat to script.
I don't think you're being too out of line here. Smokescreen probably did read a lot on the Decepticon High Command (given his comment about Starscream's high heels and the subsequent curbstomp he gave the Seeker when the Apex Armor was being used). I think that if given enough warning, Smokescreen could at least put up a good fight during the first battle, especially with the Phase Shifter. Maybe not win it, but the battles following it would get a lot closer each time. . .
Again, the Airachnid thing depends on whether he can evade the ambush tactics that she uses to catch the more powerful/skilled bots off-guard. He might get snagged and then have to escape a first time but on a one-on-one fight? He def could clean her clock since the guy isn't prone to the fear she likes to metaphorically feed on from her victims. He doesn't even get scared at Megatron's interrogations so I doubt Airachnid's mindgames would fare any better.
Thank you! I like it very much, too.
Name as many Shakespeare plays as you can. Feel free to write them down and check your answers but not to cheat. How many can you name?
0
1
2-3
4-5
6-7
8-9
10-14
15-19
20-24
25-29
30-35
36+ (“all of them” depending on who you ask)
Tell me in the comments: are you from a country that speaks predominantly English? Was any Shakespeare required in your education?
Hi, Blade! Hope your weekday’s been going pretty well!
I’m not sure if you already know about this, but I’ll share with you just in case.
So, there’s this Transformers toyline called Age of the Primes (AOTP). Apparently, in the upcoming Wave 5 of the toyline, our boy Smokescreen is going to be one of them! :D
I do have a few things to say about his design (Why does his chest look like that? And why is he frowning?), but…given that it’s been around 10 years or so since Smokey got a new figure, I’m not complaining much.
(Still, I’d say that the Go! Hunter Smokescreen is hands down the most accurate Prime Smokescreen figure. It’s based off of the Deluxe Class Beast Hunters Smokescreen, with my only gripe of the figure being that the colors are a bit off).
Going back to AOTP Smokescreen, his design aside, I’d like to focus on something really interesting.
The AOTP Smokescreen figure has a short bio. And…it states the following:
“Descended from Solus Prime, Smokescreen is eager to become a great Autobot warrior.”
If you listen carefully, you can actually hear the moment MY JAW DROPPED TO THE FLOOR.
Though, I've read that AOTP does have this thing where they say that a certain character is a descendant of a certain Prime. While this doesn’t apply to all characters, some characters do seem to be descendants of a prime, even if some of them...can be a hit–or–miss.
(And apparently…Prime Cliffjumper and Armada Red Alert are descendant of Prima Prime! What are the odds? And, get this…Heatwave’s a descendant of Optimus! That’s really interesting! Though, in his case, I wonder why that is, since Optimus did show up in Rescue Bots and all…)
Look, this VERY FUN FACT of Smokescreen may not be canon in Prime…but I don’t care. I’m eating this up. We’ve been denied/deprived of Prime Smokescreen content for too long that I’m willing to accept any Smokescreen–related crumbs that’s out there. Canon or not.
Plus, when you think about it…Smokey being a descendant of Solus Prime ACTUALLY MAKES A LOT OF SENSE! Especially when we see his interaction with two of her weapons, namely The Forge of Solus Prime and the Star Saber. (There’s also the Apex Armor, which he got from Starscream with little to no effort in his introductory episode. Though, I focused more on the other two since they’re more “prominent”).
In the show, we can see Smokescreen’s extensive knowledge of the relics, which includes The Star Saber.
Now that we’re discussing it, I vividly remember someone referring to Smokescreen as a “deliverer”/”messenger” to Optimus. The first time was when he brought/”delivered” The Forge of Solus Prime to a dying Optimus before using it to revive him. The second time was when he straight up delivered (“Special delivery!”) the Star Saber to Optimus in Deadlock.
Oh, and have I mentioned that he’s the only character aside from Optimus who touched/wielded both weapons at some point? And how he almost became a Prime…?
Smokescreen…really isn’t beating the biblical metaphor/”chosen one” allegations, huh?
In all seriousness though, despite the “disdain” that Prime’s writers had towards Smokescreen (which translated into how seemingly intent they were in making him the “bad guy” at times), you’ve got to admit, they weren’t subtle when it comes to establishing Smokescreen’s connection to Primehood/the Primes.
I mean, when you think about it...Smokescreen has a connection to THREE PRIMES.
Let’s review. He’s apparently a descendant of Solus Prime, used to work as Alpha Trion’s bodyguard in the Hall of Records, and is now Optimus Prime’s subordinate under Team Prime.
…I need to sit down. Because THREE PRIMES is crazy. Prime–like personality aside, it’s no wonder that Alpha Trion deemed Smokey as being worthy of Primehood.
…And it’s no wonder why Alpha Trion essentially made Smokescreen pretend as if he didn’t exist in the Hall of Records.
Maybe he foresaw the kind of threat Smokescreen is up against if his connection to the Primes/his possible Primehood is ever discovered by the Decepticons…who knows?
Okay, I think I need to take off my tinfoil hat for real now.
All in all, while I didn’t expect to see this kind lore drop from a toyline, especially 10 years after we had our last figure of him…canon or not, I’ll take it! And, hey! If it means that it’d get more people to acknowledge/recognize the implicit yet highly integral part that Smokescreen plays in Prime, then I see this as an absolute win!
I think I’ll end my ramblings/info dumping here. It’s hard not to be excited when Smokey’s under the spotlight again, especially with all of that lore dump. Our boy deserves it!
As always, thanks a lot for reading, and I’m looking forward to your thoughts, Blade :)
Hey Jazzi! I'm going good so far. How about you?
I didn't know that, but I gotta grab that toy and Smokey's Go! one now. (I kid you not, for years I was unaware that there were any toys for TFP. The marketing team failed about as badly as the series' writers on that front.) Thanks for the info!
In defense of the guys making his toy, they do have TFP's transformation sequence/stuff to work around, so the chest is probably the best they can manage. The frown is criminal, though.
Beast Hunters Smokescreen was....a choice. Love his Go! Hunter on the right, though! Especially since he seems to be legitimately smiling. That's our boy!
SOLUS FREAKING PRIME IS HIS ANCESTOR?!?!?!?!
No wait, that makes so much sense! Like, he's always compassionate, yet comes off as "insensitive" or whatever, but that is almost EXACTLY the same problem Solus had: she was compassionate and caring, but had a short temper, so there's low-key an overlap between them there.
Honestly, that "energon bloodline" works much better than Polarities. I do like the idea of Polarities, but it's....mind-numbing, quite frankly.
(Really? Prima for Cliff and Red Alert? I'd have personally classified Red as Solus' descendant, but I can kinda see it. Oh that is sweet with Heatwave! I think it's because Optimus was supposed to be the reincarnation of the Thirteenth Prime, but that's also a separate ball of wax I don't wanna deal with right now. Heh, Excellion/Hotshot being Amalgamous' grandkid makes so much sense...)
Hey, TFP canon went out the window a long time ago, plus is subject to change even with how it was written. Far as I'm concerned, Smokescreen being Solus' descendant is just as true as Optimus' color scheme being red, white/silver, and blue!
Ohhhhh shoot. You know, this makes Smokescreen's knowledge of history and the Primes make all the more sense. Why wouldn't a descendant of Solus be interested in her creations, in understanding their lore, how they work, and the powers they have? This all tracks so well, it's like it was set up from the beginning to turn out this way!
Oh yes, that is also an excellent point. Come to think of it, no one else on the team knew as much as he did about the Artifacts of the Primes, did they? Except Optimus of course, which heightens the connection here all the more...!
I vaguely seem to recall that as well - and given that his white color scheme and doorwings make him look angelic-ish, that is beautiful. Especially now that we stop and consider how he really was their guardian angel 9/10, and that's before we take into account the Primes' relics!
Heheheheh, the plot thickens....
He really isn't (that link isn't working, I'm so sorry!) Heck, even with how they tried framing Smokescreen as the one who's "wrong/a problem", the TFP writers couldn't make him stop being the heroic, biblical-like hero he is. I'm so proud of you, Smokey, and so's Chromia and the Mithril Sea Squad!
Wait a tic.
The knowledge of Alpha Trion, the "blood" of Solus flowing through his veins, and learning from Optimus Prime....no wonder the guy is so amazing and tough! He's got the best of each of these three keeping him going and adapting!
Given what he'd later go through, keeping Smokescreen in a position where he had to "pretend to not exist" likely saved his life. No wonder Alpha Trion kept that up and trusted him with the Matrix.
Pity, my brain is going into overdrive now! XD
I'll take it too, Jazzi! Especially if it means Smokescreen gets the recognition he deserves. This is so cool, thank you for the information!
I'm stoked now, too! I can't wait for more, and I thought I'd never see the day where Smokescreen was given the spotlight. Thanks again, Jazzi!
You're welcome, and let me know if I missed anything. Take care, Jazzi, and have a good week!
@somereaderinblue @kzele @escapistsatellite @brightrednight Super cool news that @jazzimena found!!!
I'm telling you, this is why we needed more Smokescreen showing off his relic knowledge. I literally have a post entitled "Smokescreen = Nate Drake?" We needed more exploring with him finding old and cool Cybertronian stuff. Especially the stuff related to Primal lore and artifacts.
Yes! Yes, we NEED to make him the Nate Drake of Transformers!
Oh, and another thing. Arcee being descended from Megatronus could make narrative sense in that Megatronus gravitates towards having fembot descendents because nostalgia where Solus is concerned? (Or guilt because you know, the whole "accidental murder of his love" happened. . .)
That is SO GENIUS!
Heck, it would also line up with TFP Arcee narratively too: She's hot-tempered like Megatronus, and keeps losing HER lovers like he lost Solus.
(You could sort of make an argument that the losses were her fault too. Tailgate died because she fell for Airachnid's trap, Cliffjumper died...possibly because she joined Optimus and Co. when she didn't want to? @jazzimena here's some new ideas if you wanna hop in!)
Hiya, Blade!
Oh wow. I never thought about it that way…it all makes sense now! Thank you for the vision @kzele!
Just a heads up, my reblog’s gonna contain a wordy analysis and another unavoidable rant. I’m also going to make some comparisons between Arcee and Megatronus, though, I’m not very familiar with the relationship between the Thirteen, so I might miss or get something wrong. Please correct me if that’s the case!
As you’ve pointed out, Blade, the way their narratives parallel with one another is interesting, to say the least. On that note, I’d like to add Arcee’s impulsiveness, which often leads her to make brash decisions (with harsh consequences she never really faces). Recall the times when she decided to chase after the Decepticons solo (with her needing saving afterwards) and the revenge stunts against Airachnid that always pushes her to abandon her team as a result, with it also endangering her life and that of others. As for Megatronus…we see “Tragedy of Impulsiveness” when he murdered Solus.
Back to Arcee, these traits of her translate to her insubordination, and how she can be viewed as OG Team Prime’s “rogue member”. Moreover, we see a similar pattern with how Megatronus is also the “rogue member” of the Thirteen due to him chasing his own dark ambitions, ultimately causing him to turn away from the Thirteen.
The only difference between Arcee and Megatronus is that Arcee–fortunately–has OG Team Prime to hold her back/back her up when things do go South (plus the fact she’s got the MC treatment, so she’s always right and is “good”). Again, while I’m not so familiar with the relations between the Thirteen, I’m assuming that the “bond” between them isn’t(?) as strong, given how Megatronus murdered a fellow Prime as well as the underlying discord among the Thirteen (at least from what I read, but correct me if I’m wrong).
That aside, just imagine for a moment if Bee hadn’t stopped Arcee from snuffing Starscream in Partners? This is just me, but despite Megatron’s disdain towards Starscream’s antics, when you consider how he REALLY read the riot act on Airachnid for leaving Starscream behind…whose to say that Megatron WON’T take the murder of a high–ranking Decepticon officer at the hands of that Autobot Two–Wheeeler as a MAJOR offense? Is there any guarantee that Megatron WON’T up the ante the next time he encounters the Autobots, especially HER?
(Note: Ironically/unironically enough, there’s also the fact that Starscream helped the Autobots on several occasions. Had he been snuffed in Partners…the Autobots would’ve never gotten the info on the spacebridge in the Orion Pax arc, and NOONE would've saved Arcee from Airachnid in Crossfire. In other words; we’ve got to give Bee some credit for stopping Arcee from snuffing Starscream. Because had she succeeded, OG Team Prime would’ve likely lost Optimus forever AND Arcee herself would’ve kicked the bucket. While I don’t fault her for lashing out at Starscream in Partners…I’m telling you, the snowball effect from her action/actions NEVER ENDS WELL. Look at Darkness Rising and Speed Metal for further examples).
Moving on, I can agree with your take that she’s–partly, imho–at fault for her late partners’ death (more so Cliffjumper’s case). Given her less serious demeanor with Tailgate in Predatory’s flashback and that Airachnid DOESN’T PLAY when preying on someone…I can understand her oversight. What I don’t understand is how neither Cliffjumper nor Arcee (especially her as the “serious and cautious” one) didn’t see anything wrong with letting Cliff go alone. Granted, it’s been 3 years since the last Decepticon sighting so they’re at ease and all…BUT STILL. In the context of Cybertronian lifespan, isn’t that a SHORT window of time…? They’re acting like it’s been a decade or two since the last Decepticon sighting…*sighs*.
Anyways, as you’ve pointed out before, Arcee losing Tailgate and Cliffjumper is reflected from Megatronus’ “pattern of losing his lover/closest one”. Maybe it’s just me, but I’m inclined to believe that one of the “pattern/characteristics” of being Megatronus’ descendant is that they have this “bad luck” when it comes to relationships. Think about it, not only did Megatronus snuff Solus, but he also isolated/exiled himself from the rest of the Thirteen afterwards. We also see this with pattern with Arcee and her ties to her late partners, with her “lone wolf” tendencies after Tailgate’s death (and persisting long after). Plus, let’s not forget that Arcee didn’t exactly get along well with Cliffjumper and Tailgate at first. Jack included.
(Note: Though, I’d argue it’s somewhat to a lesser extent and even subverted Post–Tailgate and Cliffjumper. Due to the writers’ favoritism, as I said before elsewhere, there’s this “insistence” of partnering her up with guys, such as Bulkhead in Metal Attraction and the VERY forced “partnership” with Wheeljack in Plus One. There’s also Jack as her human charge, who almost suffered from her “bad luck” in Predatory, but of course, everything is fine and dandy due to the MC treatment bestowed upon the two. Let’s also not forget how she essentially guilt–tripped Jack into becoming her “partner”. Ya’ll ain’t slick, TFP writers).
Generational “bad luck” aside, you wanna know what I think is really, REALLY interesting? In the Energon Bloodline wiki, there’s a line that reads: “Megatron was born of the line of Megatronus, a passionate and resentful outsider”. Additionally, when you consider how Vortex and Brawl are the two confirmed descendants to Megatronus–both of whom are Decepticons–AND when you consider that a certain Two–Wheeler fits the whole “passionate and resentful outsider (lone wolf)” bit to a T…it looks like our view of Arcee being the most Decepticon–like Autobot holds merit after all. Flamewar would be proud :D
(Or, alternatively, Arcee could go rogue. While both view works, but the concept of Decepticon!Arcee is really difficult to ignore now)
Given that Megatronus is essentially the “face” of the Decepticons…methinks it would also explain Arcee’s one–sided beef with Smokescreen. I mean, look at Megatron (who may not even know that he’s Megatronus’ descendant) and his centuries–long beef with Optimus? And then look at Arcee’s own centuries–long beef with Airachnid. What I’m trying to say here is that both Arcee and Megatron do NOT play when it comes to resentment.
On a related note, I think Megatronus’ descendants would almost automatically resent anything/anyone “good” (certainly doesn’t help that his confirmed descendants are ALL BLOODTHIRSTY AND VIOLENT DECEPTICONS). On a more personal level, you could even say that Megatronus’ descendants may have this “generational beef” Solus’ descendants, given what had happened. Thus, when Arcee (as Megatronus’ descendant) sees Smokescreen (who is Solus’ descendant), someone who is an Autobot through and through who is thriving and so full of life without even trying…it triggered something in her AND explains why she specifically and insistently antagonizes him.
Referring back to my point on how Arcee’s “snowball effect” always ends up negatively…Smokescreen’s brand always ends up positively. I saw a “what if” post of what’d happen if Smokescreen, as the Omega Key “bearer”, landed elsewhere. The Autobots would’ve been in a lot of trouble had that been the case. Another major example would be how Smokey exposing himself in Legacy actually led to him being the first to discover the Star Saber and him stalling for time, or that the act of Bee snuffing Megatron in Deadlock WOULD’VE NEVER HAPPENED had it not been for Smokey’s quick thinking to locate the Star Saber in the first place. In other words (and excuse my bitterness); Bee would’ve never had his–rather forced, imho–“MC moment” AND MEGATRON WOULDN’T HAVE BEEN SNUFFED HAD IT NOT BEEN FOR SMOKESCREEN.
Everyone say “Thank you, Smokescreen!”
But even when all is said and done…SMOKESCREEN’S supposed to be the guy that bears the brunt of the fandom’s collective hate/disdain? Yeah. NO. Your insistence on making him the black sheep of Team Prime/the show (when you purposefully turn a blind eye against Arcee’s antics via favoritism) isn’t working on us Smokey fans, TFP writers. Once again, ya’ll ain’t slick.
I wasn’t kidding when I said this was gonna be wordy, heh. Still though, I did NOT expect those parallels between Arcee and Megatronus…that actually explains a lot tbh, especially her behavior. But most importantly, I definitely WON’T miss an opportunity to defend our boy Smokescreen once again :)
Hope you have a great day, Blade & @kzele! I really appreciate the food for thought!
Hi Jazzi!
Me neither, but it all aligns perfectly! @kzele is really good with this kind of stuff!
Hehehe, this is gonna be fun! No worries, I'll help you out if that's the case!
Oooo, the impulsiveness is a good point. Megatronus, now that I consider it, was always impulsive, too - I mean, he clearly wasn't thinking straight/at all when he shot Solus in the middle of an argument over the Requiem Blaster's continued usage. Additionally though, I feel Arcee also gets her pride from him. Megatronus was a proud "dark warrior", according to some sources (they tried setting him up as a naturally dark aligned warrior as a "balance" to Prima, but that doesn't work on a number of levels), and while many times Liege is faulted for orchestrating the fracturing of the Thirteen, Megtronus was too proud to let the Requiem Blaster go to waste....and thus, enter, The Fallen.
Arcee is indeed the "rogue agent" of Team Prime, which as you said, reflects Megatronus' status as the "rogue" of the Thirteen. Funnily enough, depending on the continuity, Megatronus either goes rogue for his own ambitions, or aligns himself with Unicron for other reasons.
Yeah, that is the only real difference between Arcee and Megatronus *cough*Favoritismandplotarmor*coughcough*. You're not entirely wrong, as the Thirteen, despite being "close", ended up drifting apart over time, and between Liege Maximo being designated as a villain due to his Marvel appearance pre-2010 lore as well as Megatronus' personality, things went awry and left the Thirteen scattered across the universe. That said, I resent the idea that it was a combination of lack of checking in on each other, personal friction between them, and plotting that would break them apart, but that's just me.
Oooo.....that's a good point, and you know what? I want to see that! I want to see Megatron just ticked off enough with Arcee to want her head on a spike, not just because she killed one of his highest ranking officers, but because neither Starscream nor Airachnid could defeat her. In short, Megatron would be like -
Huh. So, basically, had Bee not intervened to prevent "Arcee crossing a line she'll never walk back" (hah! as if), they'd all be dead meat at this point with Earth the conquered world of the Decepticons. Sounds about right, especially since the consequences of her actions NEVER actually crosses her mind.
That is a good point about Airachnid, though in some ways, it is still her fault (but early enough in Arcee's career that yeah, she'd understandably make that mistake.) And what's funny, now that you mention the timeskip, is that in Energon, ten years HAD passed for the Autobots to get into a lull before the action picked up again, though they were used to some disturbances before then. So the notion that three years makes them go soft....Odd. Very odd indeed. (On a darker note, her not helping Cliffjumper when he got the readings could potentially be read as her not caring for him enough/just using him to make herself feel better, but I digress.)
Excellent point! I mean, given Megatronus' extreme reactions, both to a disagreement with Solus and as a result of killing her, it only explains why Arcee would react the way she does with Tailgate and Cliffjumper's deaths. And between that, her early beefs with both 'Bots (and Jack), and how Megatronus probably wasn't the nicest member of the Thirteen...it tracks, especially since both Arcee and Megatronus' luck is pretty bad.
(Oh it's definitely "inverted" later, which is totally forced. If they'd let Arcee off the leash properly, the girl would be an unhinged psycho not so different from Megatronus, though she likely wouldn't ally with the Decepticons, if only due to pride. What is it with Arcee getting thrown at all manner of guys? I really like the idea of her with Grimlock, and maybe there could be something inherent either in their bloodlines to make it work, or Grimlock's sheer power making him hard to kill, but still - pick a guy and stick with him, people!!! And no, DON'T make it Wheeljack! Wait, maybe he could be Alchemist's descendant....)
You know, between that and how Arcee basically got dragged into Team Prime via plot and Cliffjumper....her being Megatronus' descendant makes so much sense. Oh yeah, Flamewar would DEFINITELY be proud.
(Both views do work and make sense. It'd just be a tad more difficult to pull off Decepticon!Arcee in light of her partners' deaths at the hands of the 'Cons/the 'Cons' guns for hire [Airachnid].)
.........That's another valid argument. I mean, no one (outside of maybe Breakdown and Bulkhead, but that's debatable) else in the show holds a grudge like Megatron and Arcee do. That makes so much sense that it's scary.
You know, I can see that. Just because Solus and Megatronus had been lovers doesn't mean their descendants will see eye-to-eye. If anything, if the earliest members of their lines remembered what had happened, it would probably cause a noticeable rift between the two bloodlines, and given Megatronus is more resentful than Solus, it would likely be some sort of psychological projection reaction to encountering a member of Solus' bloodline and become a blame game of her being at fault when it was Megatronus' impulsivity. Heh, this lines up perfectly with how Arcee just projected onto Smokescreen, never gave him the time of day, and overall mistreated him. I'm reminded of the line "I hold no registry of anger stored" in this song for Solus in light of Smokescreen's unending forgiveness....
Hahaha, YES!!! Solus' line just ends up winning the day for the heroes, don't they? Seriously, Smokescreen's back should be checked for injury given how he ended up carrying the team once he arrived. Ooo, that's probably a reason for the (one-sided[?]) rivalry between Megatronus and Solus' lines: Megatronus' line ends in failure, while Solus' ends in success. (Agreed: Bee's sudden spotlight was left-field, and I'm still salty by how he stole Smokescreen's arc and role.)
Thank you, Smokescreen! You saved the day, repeatedly, and deserve all good things!
Yeah no, Arcee is quite clearly the black sheep here, folks. Smokescreen's NOT, never has been, or will be. I mean seriously, look at the wins he got, and compare them to Arcee's "wins". TFP writers (and like half the fandom) aren't fooling us Smokey fans one little bit!
For sure you weren't! And I didn't expect all these parallels either, but it makes bucket-loads of sense! I won't miss a chance to defend Smokey either, and this was fun! :D
Thanks, and I hope you have a good day too, Jazzi! As always, let me know if I missed anything, and take care!
Thank you both for the compliments, @jazzimena @blade-liger-4ever! I interpreted the parallels of Megatronus and Arcee's impulsiveness as something beyond just a shared restlessness. When it comes to revenge, I think they are both fundamentally hollow inside. Megatronus actually directly caused his love's death so his hollowness is much more exaggerated which caused him to exile himself into deep space. Meanwhile Arcee has a team that, for the most part, holds her back from going completely AWOL. However, I think the hollowness shows up in other ways, such as the show "pairing her up" with various guys.
Usually when a person bounces around like that, it's a sign of fear of commitment (understandable here), looking for something in particular in partner, or they have something missing inside them. Given her rather large self-destructive streak, the last option is also very much something to consider.
Envy is also factor, as I recall, where Megatronus was concerned. I think Liege Maximo might've stoked some jealousy about the some of the other Primes being interested in Solus. Don't quote me because I don't know that for sure. Megatron very much canonically had a problem with envy because instead of being thrilled that a member of his movement (which Orion Pax was at the time) was selected to be a Primal candidate, he threw a tantrum that it wasn't him who got selected. He disavowed Orion, murdered Halogen of the High Council who agreed with Orion's ideas for peaceful change, and then left.
Now Arcee, to her credit, is not nearly that extreme. Does she still have envy problem? Yes. She goes off and wrecks things for her side a lot because she follows a predictable emotional pattern. Smokescreen follows an unpredictable pattern of logic that he adjusts and keeps balanced between circumstances and ideals. Arcee's focus on teamwork is ultimately rather superficial when it comes to it getting in the way of personal grudges. By contrast, Smokescreen's talk of glory is ultimately superficial in terms of it not really being rooted in self-centeredness at all. He wants to serve the cause/his teammates/Optimus and glory to him just means being good enough at contributing that he's recognized for it.
The rivalry thing with the lines of Solus and Megatronus is fascinating. I do find it interesting that Arcee's physical victories are either in messy drawn out battles while Smokescreen actually relies on finesse/lateral thinking more often than not to achieve his own. Even their relics of choice are opposites than what you would think. The battle for the Omega Lock showed that Arcee chose the Apex Armor of all things. I understand it kept her armored from vast amounts of laser fire but it's still odd to me. I mean, the "flashy rookie" chose a stealth weapon that also allows him to safely use the most dangerous relic the Autobots had (Spark Extractor) but meanwhile the experienced stealth bot of the team chose the relic that was the polar opposite of her nature/skills. She couldn't run fast with it or dart around undetected like she could have done with the Immobilizer or Phase Shifter.
So yeah, lemme know what you guys think and if I'm not totally out of line with these random thoughts.
Your very welcome, @kzele! Also, you’re not being out of line with your thoughts. If anything, you’ve actually raised a lot of interesting points!
That’s an interesting comparison on their shared hollowness and how it’s much more apparent in Megatronus. I’d also like to point out the difference in how they “moved on”. Megatronus isolated himself (because he was the one who killed his loved one), while Arcee constantly seeks for a connection (because her partners were killed). Now that I think about it, it does explain why she’s often paired with many guys.
As such, I agree that “something missing inside them” part 100% applies to Arcee. Tailgate’s death was a major traumatic event for her, and Cliffjumper’s death only added salt to the injury. While it’s a good thing she joined Team Prime (we have Cliffjumper to thank), I felt it was a missed opportunity to not link Arcee’s “lone wolf” persona with her (hypothetical) “bad things happen when others get close to me” mindset. It was evident (implicitly) during her early interactions with Cliffjumper and Jack with how she initially pushed them away…but even so, she “accepted” them rather quickly all things considered, Jack in particular following Cliffjumper's death. It would be interesting to see her admit that outright, since it’d add more layers to her character with how she struggles with abandonment/commitment issues, but that’s just me.
I’m not very familiar with the dynamics between the Primes, but I agree with your point on Megatron’s envy. You could tie his envy towards Orion and how it manifested into his own personal end goal of being the only one who could snuff Optimus, at least that’s what I think. While Arcee’s envy isn’t even a fraction of Megatron’s own, but even then, she’s rather quick to deem others as the jealous type when she herself is rather tight–lipped about her obvious envy of Smokescreen, for example. This also includes her unaddressed impulsive streaks, some of which were fueled by envy or pride, or even both.
That aside, your comparison of Arcee and Smokescreen’s behavior/mannerism is very on–point! I also think that Arcee’s “team player” shtick is rather superficial and hypocritical when you consider her unaddressed revenge stunts and her tendency to chase after the ‘cons solo that almost always ends badly for her (and for others). Meanwhile, I’ve never gotten the impression that Smokescreen is selfish from his “destiny talk”. While it’s obvious that his exuberance grates on Team Prime’s nerves (Arcee’s in particular), not once has he ever displayed self–centered tendencies, especially when he’s been nothing but helpful ever since he emerged from stasis.
Glad to know that you find the rivalry between Megatronus and Solus’ descendants to be interesting! And that’s also a really neat detail you pointed out. Arcee tends to fight with brute force and anger, while Smokescreen tends to use out of the box methods that not only works well on his (and his team’s) favor, but also one that minimizes unnecessary confrontation/fights.
Look, I’m not disregarding Arcee’s experiences in the war, especially since Smokescreen did avoid most of the war due to being in stasis. Still, I feel like there’s something to be said about Arcee and her pride in fighting messy drawn–out battles, which also applies to rest of Team Prime imho. I’ve talked with @blade-liger-4ever regarding Team Prime’s “pride” in fighting the ‘cons face–to–face, hence I felt that Bulkhead’s “Optimus managed just fine for eons without the big sword” line can also be interpreted/expanded to include the rest of Team Prime and how they’ve never had to use weapons/relics up until Regeneration (with the exception of Smokescreen and his Phase Shifter).
What I’m trying to say is that Arcee in particular seems to respect and hold those that fight their opponent hands–on in a high regard. On the flip side, she may dislike (or even envy) those who “take the easy way out”. Aside from their obvious warrior/veteran status and association to Bulkhead, it explains why she gets along well with Wheeljack post–Hurt, especially in Plus One where we see the two “partnered up” and fight side–by–side. On the contrary, her envy/disdain of Smokescreen could also be attributed to his more effective yet successful “hands off” approach, and we can see this from her reaction after Smokescreen kicked Starscream out of the Apex Armor via the Phase Shifter. Plus, Smokescreen’s basically a stranger to Arcee with no connection to other members of Team Prime, so it’s much easier for her to antagonize/dislike him in spite of his many feats/contributions.
Moving on! Let me shake your hand through the screen because I’m glad I’m not the only one who found Arcee’s decision to go with the Apex Armor to be odd, especially when you consider her pride and how the show consistently portrays her as “small but mighty”. Sure, it’s probably just random weapons selection…but still. Your well–made point on Smokescreen aside (let me add that Smokescreen being entrusted with the Spark Extractor demonstrates the level of trust that Optimus has on him), I can ALSO get behind Bulkhead wielding the Immobilizer. He needs a faster way of immobilizing all those Vehicons, and you can even argue that it’s him reclaiming the weapon from the ‘cons after he was zapped with it by Airachnid in Partners. Plus, I do like juxtaposition between his “wreck it all” mindset and how he’s willing to use a weapon that just freezes his opponents in place.
Though, I can’t say the same for Arcee and Bee’s “weapons”. I think it'd be better if they switch, with Arcee using the Polarity Gauntlet (since she used it in Metal Attraction) while Bee uses the Apex Armor (as a way of him reclaiming it from Starscream after New Recruit and him being an overall menace to the 'cons). A bit out of topic, but I think it was a missed opportunity to not have Arcee and/or Bee using the Phase Shifter, especially since they’re Team Prime’s “stealth” bots and were the ones who got it in Tunnel Vision. But fortunately, Smokescreen’s ultimately the one to use it! I think that’s another example of how Team Prime’s “pride” prevented them from actually using the weapons/relics they already have.
Going back to Arcee again, her opting for the Polarity Gauntlet would’ve made sense if you want to use either the “the Apex Armor was obtained via Smokescreen and his un–warrior–like methods” or “the Apex Armor was used by Starscream and Arcee refuses to be as cowardly as him” reasoning. As we know, Arcee is rather envious and can hold a grudge, so her refusing to use the Apex Armor for those reasons would’ve actually been in–character. Though, I guess her decision to use the Apex Armor reflects how she’s stealthy in theory and not so in practice (read: Darkness Rising and Metal Attraction).
These are my two cents on the matter, and you’ll have to excuse me for how lengthy it is. I hope I’m not too out of line myself with my thoughts. Thanks for the addition @kzele! And please feel free to jump into the discussion @blade-liger-4ever!
Thanks for the invite @jazzimena! I hope you and @kzele don't mind anything I might add (especially if/when I get into a rant.)
Okay so, tying the "seeks a connection" bit into what little I know of G1 Arcee, that would actually explain why she's so maternal with Daniel Witwicky and why she bounces back and forth between Springer and Hot Rod/Rodimus in G1. The bond with Daniel shows a desire for family, while her wishy-washy relationships with the two boys are likely her unable to decide what she seeks in a romantic partner. Springer's the action man with brains, experience, and an underlying sense of care (if I understand him right) that makes such a type of guy attractive to most women, whereas Rodimus is the young gun trying to prove himself before getting the Matrix. Since I rarely have something nice to say about Rodimus, I will be kind and also restrain myself by saying Arcee may have realized she felt more maternal/sisterly toward him than anything post-film and decided to back off on her pursuit of him in light of what was going on with his arc.
It absolutely applies to TFP Arcee and her trauma, as well as her commitment issues in the series. And I have to agree, letting her actively push others away (if I understand you right) would have done more service to her arc. Arguably too, if you let something actually happen to Jack under Arcee's watch, maybe then she'd at the very least see the consequences of her lust for revenge. She would grow, while also doubling down on "bad things happen when others get close to me", and thus you could actually let her process things while trying to protect the others by being a solo agent. This would have made her a much better character and given payoff to her arc, but instead she just magically moves on to both Cliffjumper ("Out of the Past") and Jack ("Darkness Rising" and beyond) and mysteriously never struggles with her past again.
That's actually a good point; I mean, you know that anyone who, hypothetically, snuffed Optimus would be killed by Megatron. Envy is most certainly one of his worst vices. It does make sense with Arcee, and "Speed Metal" proves this point on pride, while virtually any interaction with Smokescreen is a proof of her envy (again, this is "the rookie" who got them like 5 relics within a month and escaped on his own from the Decepticon warship. Arcee's envy of him is right there, each time.)
In short, Arcee doesn't practice what she preaches, whereas Smokescreen is an Autobot through and through, regardless of how the show tries to frame his "destiny talk". Unlike Arcee, Smokescreen gets results that confirm his loyalty to the Autobots.
Bingo: Arcee fights in anger, Smokescreen fights with a detached kind of mindset. It's great because then he's not losing his cool in battle, and also allows him to be flexible and finish things faster. Meanwhile Arcee just....charges in blindly with nothing but a desire to hurt her opponent.
I mean, that basically is the crux of the series as a whole: whenever the Autobots get something that tips the balance of the War in their favor, they just hide it in the basement. Heck, even in Transformers: Armada, the Skyboom Shield and Star Saber were used religiously (though to be fair, they did lose the Star Saber at times as a result, but at least we had the consequences of it's usage.)
Bulkhead looks suspiciously condescending/reprimanding here....where was that face with anyone else, buddy?
"'Course you wouldn't know about that. You've been locked in stasis the whole time we've been fighting this war."
DUDE. THAT was uncalled for! Smokescreen JUST PROVED after that that he IS NOT IN IT FOR THE GLORY. "Exactly! And I'm ready to make up for lost time." What - what is WITH y'all picking on the poor guy?!
I don't care what kind of projection game you're playing, Watermelon. Optimus already said Smokescreen was ready by BRINGING HIM INTO THE FIELD! Moreover, Smokescreen's proven throughout the WHOLE TIME HE'S BEEN ON EARTH that he's "in it for the long haul." If anything, YOU'RE the one ready to quit!!!!!!!!
Okay, deep breath. Letting it out....moving on. And closing that tab.
Good observation. Everyone else she at least claims to respect are "hands on" in battle, and have thus "seen battle". Wheeljack is obviously an up-close and personal fighter while Smokescreen rolls with whatever situation he finds himself in. So, between that and Arcee's trauma from being on the field, she's probably both jealous and disdainful because "Smokescreen could never know what battle/strife is like"...when he clearly knows better than her even if Smokescreen himself doesn't realize it.
Girl. Girl, what the heck? He just made up for his genuine mistake of shooting the energon leak in the forest and PROVED HIS COMPETENCY. Why are you -?!?! Moving on, moving on....
In all honesty, the only one who's weapon selection makes any kind of sense (besides Optimus with the Star Saber), is Smokescreen. The Phase Shifter lines up with his unpredictability, while his immediate deference to Optimus' orders and general competency makes him the right candidate for using the Spark Extractor, especially combined with his speed and the Phase Shifter. Bulkhead getting the Immobilizer....is doable, but I'd expect him to use the Apex Armor or try for it, not something that doesn't align with his "beat 'em to a pulp" attitude that's been consistent throughout the show. Bee should've gotten the Immobilizer, especially since he was the 'Bot who "won it" from Airachnid and likely knows more than the others on how to use it.
Giving him the Polarity Gauntlet....why?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is the first time he's ever laid eyes on it. Bulkhead using it makes more sense, even with it lining up with Arcee and her "arc" making the most sense. Instead, miss "stealthy" goes for the super suit, Bee gets the weapon he has no clue how to use (headcanoning he got told how to use it is a weak argument), and Bulkhead gets the "wimpy relic" that, while providing a good contrast to his personality, makes zero sense from the standpoint of this dude's violent history. Especially since he seems to hold no remorse for that, unless Miko's witnessing it, but that's because she's the innocent dragged into the War (thanks for that, Arcee.)
While it would be cool to see either of them use the Phase Shifter, Bee already proved his incompetency with it when he just stood there as the train car came at him (Smokescreen would've totally gotten out of the way.) Meanwhile, Arcee is too proud to use a "cheat" in battle, and given the grief she gave Smokescreen, she'd probably turn up her nose at the thought of borrowing his signature weapon. And regardless, Smokey's the best bet for the Phase Shifter, so yay for that!
Yep, I can agree to all of that. Between her grudges with both Starscream and Smokescreen, she'd at least logically never touch either weapon. The fact that she did use the Apex Armor....it's both that she's only stealthy in theory and a case of her deciding to have more beef with a kid she just met than the literal murderer of her latest partner (which itself is tied to horrible writing, but my point still stands. I think.)
I don't think either @kzele or you were out of line, Jazzi. If anything, you both raised good points that have me thinking some now. Thanks, and I hope I didn't miss anything!
Take care, and have a good week!
One big "I agree" from me to basically everything @jazzimena said to cut down on time for me writing more analysis on this, lol.
@blade-liger-4ever Ohh, the part about Liege having a thing for Solus himself is interesting. I think I vaguely recall hearing something to that effect once but it's been ages since I last read that part of lore.
Haha, I understood the Kirk and Spock reference and why you made that comparison. (I agree in that it does sound more like "God delivered me to you all, especially Optimus, to help you," than "I'm God's gift to you all and this Earth because I'm so amazing." They took it the latter way but I don't think it was meant like that.)
Thank you both for agreeing how the lone, small female of the group is ironically far less precise in her damage/choices than the literal flashy rookie. The advertising doesn't line up with the results for me at all here.
Now to the meat here. I don't have any real beef with G1 Rodimus but at least G1 Arcee was kind and likable through that series even if they didn't explain her reasoning behind her relationship choices. G1 wasn't the best at answering follow-ups so while it's annoying, it's not the most surprising thing.
It would've been much better if she and Wheeljack traded roles. Have him integrate with Team Prime (after spending so much time in the stars and getting to like Miko), with Arcee deciding to be the lone wolf/scout who's sorting out her life choices and protecting the Team from afar. It'd be an interesting dual character contrast to watch one slip away and one slide in.
Envy is more of a subtle emotion in that it's not really pointed out as much where Megatron and Arcee is concerned. Which is weird given how envy is very much an underlying driving force. People point out their pride and anger but envy is the thing that keeps that same pride and anger fueled. Megatron wouldn't nearly be as fixated on Optimus/the Primal relics without it; being a Prime is the only title he can't brute force his way into. Similarly but to lesser degree, Arcee is frustrated about her scorecard and that Smokescreen didn't need brute force/firepower to outshine her record.
Plus, the genuine devotion is another thing he has despite waking up to a dead planet. He looked at the apocalypse and went "I'm here now so I can do something to help Optimus fix this." (<----More on this part later.) She's angry about the past but Smokescreen is already looking to fix it and making really good headway.
Worse, he's using cheat codes. The relics. The things that are too important for the Cons to have them but that the Autobots are too prideful/scared or something to use.
Boom! That response to Bulkhead's quote just proved the above point I made. Everyone is trapped by pride and hopelessness but Smokescreen is looking at the tools they have and going "Hey, might as well use these things to give our side the edge."
Yeah, Smokescreen does know what battle and strife is like. The problem she has with him isn't that, it's that he handles it better.
And yeah, ummm. You just complained that Smokescreen was too reckless in his tactics before and now you're rolling your eyes because he made a quip after saving you??? Like, did you expect him to punch the invincible armor? Smokescreen was just going "Now THAT was a plan!" What was wrong with saying his plan worked? The only criticism I had was that he didn't move in and knock Starscream out when he had the chance but nobody else on the Autobot side was yelling that bit of advice so. . .I dunno.
My thoughts on Bulkhead using the Polarity Gauntlet instead of Bee are similar in one way and different in another. You see, I agree that Bee having the Gauntlet when he had basically no connection or experience shown to the audience was foolish. When the Autobots are shown storing the artifacts instead of actually using them, saying that Bulkhead or Bumblebee learned how to work them off-screen doesn't really make sense to me. If they had shown at least some sort of scene where the Autobots were all testing the relics, I could've bought it.
Where my view differs is that the Immobilizer seemed a weird choice in that it's the most fragile relic handed to the Autobot least suited to handle delicate objects. You add that into the above lack of experience and well, like I said, it's hard for me to buy that.
