BaratheonInTheNorth

Jynna Baratheon, only legitimate child of Robert Baratheon. 

[midnighttales357]

do y'all remember that time d&d tried to convince us that daenerys was evil bc she killed slavers and the liberated slaves cheered her for it? what was that about?

[legitchild]

I remember when she brutally murdered people she hadn’t bothered to actually make sure were guilty, when she burned a slave alive for killing her slaver, when she insisted she was against slavery whilst having a slaver as an advisor and having a slave army, when she left her slave to die slowly and painfully, when she burned people alive because they didn’t bend the knee to a foreign invader and when she burned half a million innocents for no reason.

[dramione-librarian]

i've spent an hour searching for a robb stark x daenerys targaryen fics and i foun nothing?? how is there nothing for this pairing?? someone please give me recs 😭😭😭

[legitchild]

There’s nothing for this pairing because he’s dead and she was either so ignorant she didn’t know he was king or so disrespectful and arrogant that she didn’t care.

[legitchild]

I don’t get why some people think that when Jon finds out he’s Rhaegar and Lyanna’s kid, he’ll immediately ditch his name and family and become Jaehaerys or Aegon or Aemon or whatever Targ name.

He’s been Jon Snow his entire life. He was raised by Ned Stark, with the Starklings as his brothers and sisters. Finding out that he’s a Targ bastard as well as a Stark bastard doesn’t magically make him forget that.

[legitchild]

Okey so u a woman with internalized misogyny even worse and u talk a little too much about a character u pretend it doesnt exist as u should all the other characters are boring but still

It is not 'internalised misogyny' to criticise and dislike a female character.

[legitchild]

roberts incel stans keep being obsessed wuth daenerys even after all those years as they should but damn go outside maybe not all women are disgusted by u incel

....I'm not an incel. I'm a woman, for starters. I'm also not interested in women.

I'm not a Robert stan, I just like him and think he's overhated by the fandom. I'm not obsessed with Daenerys either; I loathe her and prefer to pretend she doesn't exist.

[legitchild]

The outrage over season 8 actually pisses me off so much because it wasn’t the first time D&D fucked characters over, and the previous times they did that actually went against the books.

There was Stannis, who they wrote as burning Shireen and dying after failing to beat Ramsay. It’s physically impossible for him to burn Shireen in the books (she’s at the Wall and he’s dealing with Ramsay near Winterfell.) and he’s still alive, and the far likelier victor than Ramsay. They also removed the scenes where he grieved over Renly and other moments that really humanised Stannis.

There was the entirety of Dorne. In the books, Ellaria decries the idea of getting revenge for Oberyn because she doesn’t want to perpetuate the cycle of revenge. The show has her wanting revenge. The Sand Snakes are close to and protective of their cousins in the book, but in the show they kill Trystane. They’re also just much better characters in the book.

There was Euron. In the books, he’s a chillingly evil psychopath who abused his brothers when they were children, tortures multiple people and is just generally a terrifying person. Not the goofy, ridiculous pirate man he is in the show. I hate this one the most. Book!Euron is a despicable person but he, and his overall plan, are fascinating.

But there was only mild anger at these, not the vitriolic fury there was when the show had Daenerys do the same thing she’d been doing for seven seasons prior. I guess it doesn’t matter unless it’s the white saviour imperialist favourite.

[legitchild]

Can the GOT/ASOIAF fandom stop saying that Robert Baratheon was always a terrible person?

There’s literally nothing bad about him pre Rebellion. The only thing I can think of is that he sleeps around, but calling him a bad person for that is slut shaming, and that’s gross.

It’s Lyanna/Rhaegar fans, who have to demonise Robert to make Lyanna not look terrible for choosing the married father of two over him, perpetuating this idea that Robert was always a terrible man. When Robert was a good man who fell into bad habits because of severe trauma and depression, made worse by a hateful emotionally abusive wife.

[legitchild]

I really hate this idea that Dany stans have that Daenerys was sold as a slave. Not only is this just plain factually wrong, it also spits in the face of every slave in Essos to claim that Daenerys, the wife of the Khal, with Dothraki bloodriders to protect her, her own slaves (Doreah, Irri and Jhiqui), a slaver for her advisor (Jorah), who likes to remember her slave owning ancestors and who happily profits off of slaves selling themselves back into slavery because she fucked the economy up, is a slave.

[legitchild]

Just seen a Dany stan say her death was totally uncalled for.

No.

She murdered half a million people, and intended to do it again. She absolutely deserved to, and had to, die.

The only part that was uncalled for was her death being played as a tragedy, with the whole dying in her lover's arms as he weeps thing.

She should have been publically executed, or at least been just been executed, like Ramsay.

[legitchild]

Why the hell would you ship Lyanna/Elia??

Lyanna is the reason Elia and her children were brutally murdered! She ran off with Elia's husband to Elia's kingdom! She named her child the same as Elia's very recently brutally murdered baby!

Lyanna does nothing but shit all over Elia and her children canonically and people ship them??

[legitchild]

Dany stans really need to stop comparing her invading and conquering the Six Kingdoms and the North to Sansa and Jon reclaiming Winterfell.

Winterfell is Sansa and Jon’s home. They grew up there. It was taken from them by Theon and the Boltons unlawfully, through betrayal and cruelty. They have every right to take it back.

Daenerys has never even been on mainland Westeros. She spent all of one day on Dragonstone as a newborn. She has no emotional connection to any of the Six Kingdoms or the North and she has no right to any of them. Her family lost any rights they had when her father decided to burn his own lords.

One is two people reclaiming their home from invaders. The other is someone invading other people’s lands.

[neverevwriting-deactivated20231]

got an idea from a tik tok i saw, but tim wishing somehow that damian wasn't robin- and he wakes up and damian is gone. no one remembers damian except for tim

and of course the longer he goes, the longer he starts to see exactly how important damian and damian being robin as a whole are. then he begins forgetting things about damian as time begins running out

[legitchild]

But how is Damian and Damian being Robin important to Tim at all? Especially in the early days?

Damian tried to kill him twice and treats Tim like shit. Tim didn’t want to stop being Robin. Why in the hell would he consider Damian being Robin important when Tim never wanted that and in order for that to happen Tim had to lose Robin, which deeply hurt him?

This makes no sense.

[hargitays]

I am genuinely still so bitter about the weird beef that sansa and daenerys were written to have with each other in s7.. what was that?? 😭

[legitchild]

S8. And that’s what happens when one woman invades the other’s country.

[legitchild]

I do not understand why anyone would ship Jonsa. Aside from the incest angle (they’re cousins, it’s still incest and they were raised as siblings), there’s nothing about the way they interact (in fact, last I checked, they don’t interact at all in the books…) or think about each other that isn’t outside the realm of siblings.

It just baffles me. Why, when there are plenty of non incest ships for both Sansa and Jon out there would you ship them with their cousin? Especially considering that Sansa, at least, probably has a fair amount of incest related trauma.

[tinky-dinky]

I don’t understand how anyone can think that Talia is a good mother.

[drpepper280]

I think it's less that they believe Talia is a good mother and more they want her to be due to how having a brown woman being an abusive manipulative mother is/can be seen as racist

[tinky-dinky]

I don’t understand that because brown women can be abusive and manipulative, just as any woman of any nationality, ethnicity or race. She isn’t abusive and manipulative (which she is with other characters beside Damian, like Bruce and Jason) because she’s brown, she’s like that because she’s an assassin in the league of assassins. She’d be like that regardless of her skin colour.

But I acknowledge that I am so white I am physically incapable of tanning, so I am probably entirely wrong about racism.

[esteicy-blog]

When discussing racism in characters is important to remember these are not real people, they don't have their own agency or choices, Talia is a drawing who obeys to a writer, so obviously everything that she does is commanded by someone who has their own personal bias.

The main problem lot of Talia fans have is that she wasn't always like this, she used to be a quite different character, way more positive.

But then a writer, who was white, decided to make her a rapist, a cold, sadistic woman, and an abusive mother, all really awful stereotypes for a brown Arab woman. Especially because it makes no sense for her previous canon; she loved Bruce, she disapproved much of her father's actions and suffered for the way she was raised.

It's absurd that she would force Bruce and coldly submit Damian to the same kind of trauma she had to endure. Even if we accept she would raise Damian in the League, she wouldn't treat him as a disposable tool.

So at least personally, I prefer to reject the most awful parts of canon and try to save the image of Talia, who was only affected by the writer's blatant racism and misogyny. I like versions when both Bruce and Talia are doing their best for Damian, both make mistakes, both do some things right. I mean, if you want an abusive family member I think there's enough with Ra's.

So, obviously I can't talk for everyone on this fandom, but I think much of the "Good mother Talia" sentiment comes from fans reclaiming the character back from the damage racist writing did.

[legitchild]

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but hasn't Talia always been an assassin working with the league of assassins?

It's hardly out of character for an assassin to be cold or sadistic, and it's entirely possible for someone to acknowledge and hate their own abusive upbringing but then still be abusive to their children (my own mother hates the abusive way her mother brought her up but still emotionally abused myself and my siblings).

It just seems absurd to me to decide that she can't possibly have done this and it must just be racism because a white man wrote it.

How exactly do you reconcile ignoring the parts you don't like (ie Talia raising Damian in the league and abusing him) with Damian's canon?His canon doesn't work without his background and training from the league. Even if you say Ra's did it, that's still on Talia for allowing it.

She could have- and should have- brought Damian to Bruce far sooner if she didn't want him to be trained. She's a bad mother (and a bad person) just for that, for keeping Damian from Bruce, from a loving father, in my opinion.

The only way to make Good Mother Talia work is to ignore Damian's background but that makes his own canon not work.

Again I question if the writing is racist or if it's just stuff that fans don't like. It just seems stupid to go 'this assassin, who works with the league of assassins and is clearly not a good person and has never been, cannot possibly do bad things, so it must be racism!".

[legitchild]

Can the stans stop pretending Catelyn Stark was a super wonderful amazing mother? Cause she really wasn’t.

I’m not saying she was a bad mother. I’m just not saying she was a good mother either.

There are several issues I have with Catelyn’s parenting:

- She has blatant favourites. She outright states in one of her POV chapters that Bran is her favourite child and the way she thinks about Sansa vs the way she thinks about Arya is very telling. Her favouritism is, in my opinion, part of the reason why Arya has such bad self esteem- to the point of thinking that her family won’t rescue her- and why her relationship with Sansa was so fraught. Kids are perceptive and they pick up on parental favouritism. If you can tell your mother prefers your sister to you, that’s going to damage your self esteem and make you resent your sister.

- I do not like the way she chose to handle the war. She captured Tyrion despite knowing her husband and daughters were surrounded by Lannister men- this leads to Ned being injured by Jaime, and it’s this conflict, and the argument over Daenerys, that drives Robert into going hunting. And we all know what happens from there. Obviously there was a lot of other reasons for this, but Catelyn’s idiocy certainly didn’t help.

- The other aspect of Catelyn’s handling of the war I do not like is her decision to abandon her 8 year old and 3 year old sons. Bran is attempting to be the Lord in Winterfell, which he could really use Catelyn’s help and advice with, or even better, for her to be Lady instead. Rickon is 3 years old, a toddler still, and has no idea what is happening, he needs his mother. Robb, on the other hand, has a entire council of advisors who actually have experience fighting a war and therefore does not need Catelyn, especially considering her dumbass decision makes things much worse.

- Which handily leads me to Catelyn’s dumb decision to release Jaime. This screwed Robb over big time, went against his orders and cost him the Karstarks, leading to him losing the war. Now, again, obviously, there were a lot of other factors at play but it cannot be denied that Catelyn’s decision made things worse for Robb.

- My final point relates to Jon and Catelyn’s treatment of him. She stereotypes him based on her prejudices regarding bastards and treats him badly. Yes, treating an innocent child coldly because of something their father did and because of your own prejudices is, in fact, treating them badly. The way Catelyn treated Jon is not okay. Especially how she insisted he had to leave Winterfell when Ned left to go south. That is her kicking a 14 year old boy out of the only home he has ever known because of her own stupid prejudices which if she ever bothered to speak to him she’d know are not true. It is shitty behaviour.

I don’t think Catelyn is a bad person, or a bad mother. I just don’t think she’s the saintly amazing mother the fandom makes her out to be.

[sovereignofgeeks]

Catelyn’s letting Jamie go is perhaps the sign she’s a good parent. She was willing to risk the war for a 1% chance at saving her daughters when her own child who she probably expected better of. Abandoned them. Robb abandoned his sisters. Catelyn did the one thing she believed could possibly help. A loving parent would burn the world for a chance to save there child and that’s what she did. I hate how she treats Arya. It is a form of abuse. But! She was willing to lose a war for Arya. Ironically the only person who seems to be willing to go the same length for Arya (Sansa maybe not?) is Jon. Who she hates.

TLDR. Robb is a bad brother who doesn’t deserve respect or the love of his sisters. There must took a stupid chance for them when he wasn’t even trying.

[legitchild]

…Robb was literally at war to save his sisters. He very much did not abandon them. He went to war for three reasons: to save Ned, to save Sansa and to save Arya. Those were literally his objectives in the whole war.

Catelyn’s decision to release Jaime not only screwed over Robb (and ignored his direct orders) but also wouldn’t have gotten Sansa and Arya free. If the Lannisters have Jaime back, what’s going to make them hand over Sansa? They have no reason to do that and every reason to hold onto her.

He wasn’t even trying?! What do you think he went to war for???

[seygay]

Haven’t read Clash of Kings in a while but Robb’s goal was not to save Sansa and Arya. If it was then he would’ve tried to trade Jaime for them, but as the text says,

“I might’ve been able to trade the Kingslayer for Father, but…”

“. . . but not for the girls?" Her voice was icy quiet. "Girls are not important enough, are they?"

Robb made no answer, but there was hurt in his eyes. Blue eyes, Tully eyes, eyes she had given him. She had wounded him, but he was too much his father's son to admit it.

- Catelyn I, a Clash of Kings

The war might have start to free Ned, and the girls but it became about Northern Independence. So Robb did very much abandon his sisters.

The idea of girls not being as important could be argued as just the ideals of his society but then half your points about Catelyn being a bad mother would be faulty on the same grounds.

You seem to just not like Catelyn and you’re free to have your opinions but you very much ignore that her views are often no different from everyone around her and simply takes the worst read of everything she does, blaming her for things she had no idea would result from her actions.

You can say she had favourites but she was always doing what she thought was best protect her children. Sometimes that leads to bad choices but her hearts always in the right place.

[legitchild]

Robb did go to war to free Sansa and Arya as well as Ned, so yes, his war was about freeing them and no, he didn’t abandon them.

As Robb literally says in that quote- which doesn’t prove he wasn’t fighting to free Sansa and Arya by the way- he can’t trade Jaime for Sansa and Arya. His men won’t stand for it, as proven by the Karstarks. Without his men he stands no chance of ever rescuing the girls.

[legitchild]

Can the stans stop pretending Catelyn Stark was a super wonderful amazing mother? Cause she really wasn’t.

I’m not saying she was a bad mother. I’m just not saying she was a good mother either.

There are several issues I have with Catelyn’s parenting:

- She has blatant favourites. She outright states in one of her POV chapters that Bran is her favourite child and the way she thinks about Sansa vs the way she thinks about Arya is very telling. Her favouritism is, in my opinion, part of the reason why Arya has such bad self esteem- to the point of thinking that her family won’t rescue her- and why her relationship with Sansa was so fraught. Kids are perceptive and they pick up on parental favouritism. If you can tell your mother prefers your sister to you, that’s going to damage your self esteem and make you resent your sister.

- I do not like the way she chose to handle the war. She captured Tyrion despite knowing her husband and daughters were surrounded by Lannister men- this leads to Ned being injured by Jaime, and it’s this conflict, and the argument over Daenerys, that drives Robert into going hunting. And we all know what happens from there. Obviously there was a lot of other reasons for this, but Catelyn’s idiocy certainly didn’t help.

- The other aspect of Catelyn’s handling of the war I do not like is her decision to abandon her 8 year old and 3 year old sons. Bran is attempting to be the Lord in Winterfell, which he could really use Catelyn’s help and advice with, or even better, for her to be Lady instead. Rickon is 3 years old, a toddler still, and has no idea what is happening, he needs his mother. Robb, on the other hand, has a entire council of advisors who actually have experience fighting a war and therefore does not need Catelyn, especially considering her dumbass decision makes things much worse.

- Which handily leads me to Catelyn’s dumb decision to release Jaime. This screwed Robb over big time, went against his orders and cost him the Karstarks, leading to him losing the war. Now, again, obviously, there were a lot of other factors at play but it cannot be denied that Catelyn’s decision made things worse for Robb.

- My final point relates to Jon and Catelyn’s treatment of him. She stereotypes him based on her prejudices regarding bastards and treats him badly. Yes, treating an innocent child coldly because of something their father did and because of your own prejudices is, in fact, treating them badly. The way Catelyn treated Jon is not okay. Especially how she insisted he had to leave Winterfell when Ned left to go south. That is her kicking a 14 year old boy out of the only home he has ever known because of her own stupid prejudices which if she ever bothered to speak to him she’d know are not true. It is shitty behaviour.

I don’t think Catelyn is a bad person, or a bad mother. I just don’t think she’s the saintly amazing mother the fandom makes her out to be.

[sovereignofgeeks]

Catelyn’s letting Jamie go is perhaps the sign she’s a good parent. She was willing to risk the war for a 1% chance at saving her daughters when her own child who she probably expected better of. Abandoned them. Robb abandoned his sisters. Catelyn did the one thing she believed could possibly help. A loving parent would burn the world for a chance to save there child and that’s what she did. I hate how she treats Arya. It is a form of abuse. But! She was willing to lose a war for Arya. Ironically the only person who seems to be willing to go the same length for Arya (Sansa maybe not?) is Jon. Who she hates.

TLDR. Robb is a bad brother who doesn’t deserve respect or the love of his sisters. There must took a stupid chance for them when he wasn’t even trying.

[legitchild]

…Robb was literally at war to save his sisters. He very much did not abandon them. He went to war for three reasons: to save Ned, to save Sansa and to save Arya. Those were literally his objectives in the whole war.

Catelyn’s decision to release Jaime not only screwed over Robb (and ignored his direct orders) but also wouldn’t have gotten Sansa and Arya free. If the Lannisters have Jaime back, what’s going to make them hand over Sansa? They have no reason to do that and every reason to hold onto her.

He wasn’t even trying?! What do you think he went to war for???