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@leviakiin
this blog’s officially dead
Hot kin take: kin elitists who need your life’s receipts to prove that you’re kin need to chill the fuck out
while i agree that “grilling” people who may already be having a crisis of identity is dumb and counterproductive, sometimes you should try and back up WHY you identify this way beyond some vague feel-good “idk i just like angels uwu.” especially if you’re trying to give advice or guidance to people.
people forget that being an incarnate (or any kind of Past Life alterhuman kinnie) is as much, if not more, about knowing about yourself NOW than knowing about your past self.
either way i’m probably a hypocrite for saying this because according to a lot of people i’m a Filthy Gatekeeper
New Advice Blog!
Hey there, I’m Cipher! I’m a fallen angel who’s been mostly lurking on forums and aesthetic blogging on tumblr for a few years now, and one thing I noticed is that while the therian and general otherkin sides of the alterhuman community have a lot going for them in terms of advice blogs and a wealth of solid resources, the angel/demon side is a bit lacking in that respect.
So I’ve set this blog up so you can ask about:
general questions about alterhuman things
specific advice/questions for angels, fallen angels, and demons
anything else relevant
The one thing this blog is not for is divination, moodboards, or canon calls. There’s plenty of those blogs already!
I’m also trying to put together a resources page of primary and secondary theological theory/sources for angels and demons, to make things a little easier for people trying to research. So if you know of something that can contribute, let me know and I’ll check it out!
Quick links:
About
Ask
Resources
FAQ
The blog url is because I’m Lucifer and I make devil puns at every available opportunity because I’m pun trash.
the idea of numbered heavens tends to make me really frustrated honestly? the whole idea that the first heaven was closer to earth, while the higher up you go you get further away? it doesn’t work like that. we’re talking about an entirely different layer of reality here, there is no “closer” or “farther.” it’s like asking whether canada or the uk is closer to polaris, but taken up to 11.
when i see it mentioned, it’s usually about heavens beyond the seventh too, which tosses out most abrahamic cosmology since they stop at seven (judaism sometimes mentions an eighth,) since seven is a symbolic number. christianity only mentions the third, but then you get the second book of enoch.
both 2 and 3 enoch are absolute loads of bullshit in my opinion, partially because they’re falsely attributed works claimed to have been written centuries before they were. 2 enoch refers to him going through the ten heavens, however, and seeing a variety of things, with the author clearly running out of ideas the further along they got. medieval occultists clung to the idea, it ended up in the one big “dictionary of angels” everyone tends to care about, new age sites spread it further, and now here we are!
2 enoch’s heavens under the cut, for anyone who’s curious (tl;dr: it’s bad.):
Keep reading
In Fire, and Ash, and Steel, We Endure
It was a little over a year ago that I remembered those words, and my SO made a post about them. Since then, I’ve seen what we’ve come to refer to as “the Quote” be used and abused all over the place, and it really needs to stop. Regularly, I see it mangled, most often as “In fire, in ash, in steel, we endure.” It gets slapped on anything even remotely related to angel stuff, with no regard for what it means or where it comes from.
The Quote isn’t about being an angel. It’s about being a soldier in a war that still hasn’t ended. It’s about battles won and lost, about the destruction of things you hold dear, about bloodshed and strife. It represents a very specific type of symbolism. Yes, it relates to many angels, but it is not an angelic saying. It goes back further than even the earliest moments of the angelic age, back further than anyone seems willing to admit.
Those words have meaning, and that meaning is tied very deeply to certain things that mean more to me than I can put into words. Those words relate to the very core of who and what I am, of who and what my wife is, and of the conflict that is still ongoing between our peoples. Please, for our sake if nothing else, stop abusing the Quote. There are other words you can cling to if you need them.
Get off of my lawn.
google search: how to make the angelkin community stop w/ the fearmongering “there’s a big war coming” bullshit
Reminder: it’s always been coming. It’s no closer than it was a thousand years ago. It’s not happening in this human life time. Please, please try to remember this and stay calm whenever your paranoia acts up, siblings.
something’s always coming, that’s just the way time works. if there is a war in heaven or something like that tho? it’s not gonna affect us here. there’s the vague potential to end up with some new, ugly memories, because nonlinear time and multiple iterations of reality can lead to you living multiple lives simultaneously, but heaven just. isn’t connected that deeply to earth. we’re not gonna suddenly have the apocalypse b/c some of the assholes in heaven or hell decided to throw down.
more👏angels👏in👏abstract👏forms👏
no more humanoid descriptions, we’re all geometric entities with wings now
How do you all feel about prophecies, visions, meaningful dreams, all that noise? With all the apocalypse stuff going around I feel like it's worth asking lol.
if someone has something that they truly believe to be a prophecy, it’s up to them what they do with that information. i personally don’t have much faith in any of the apocalypse stuff going around, but if other people want to believe it and act accordingly, that’s their choice.
-Kalon
[rubs hands together] oh boy here we go
my general feeling about prophecies and the like are this: they’re heavily steeped in symbolism. almost nothing should be taken at face value with it. for one, the future isn’t entirely set. think of fated events as beads on a string: they can slide around as they see fit, but if you follow the string, they’re going to happen eventually. though in this case, the beads can slide past each other too, so the order of events isn’t exactly set. and more importantly, symbolism is a way of distilling a large amount of information into a form that’s easier to comprehend and understand. you know the whole trope about going mad from the revelation? it’s basically a way of preventing that from happening, and it also keeps you from being too overwhelmed by the amount of info presented.
getting deeper into the dream side of the ask: most of the time, they’re complex. sometimes, it’s completely random and meaningless, and sometimes it’s your subconscious trying to tell you things. for some people, dreams are the best way for them to get visions, and oneiromancy is a thing that exists that’s been around for a long time, but it chains back to dream interpretation. dig into the meanings of that certain details within the dream could mean, rather than taking them literally. you might dream of the apocalypse, but it could be that your life is going through a big change. you might be dreaming of angels, but it could be that your brain feels you need a positive sign while you’ve it a rough spot in life, rather than it being a vision of heaven or a memory. it’s possible to get a memory or vision via a dream, but critical thought always needs to be put in to make sure that’s what it really is, rather than some sort of message from your brain. and if a sign in a dream is extremely blunt, sometimes to the point of derailing things? it’s probably something worth paying attention to, but there’s no guarantee that it’s gonna be something to take at face value.
so revelation? the locusts with human faces ruled by apollyon? the angel turning the rivers to blood? the lamb? (well, okay, everyone knows this one is jesus.) the seven angels with the seven plagues? none of those are direct signs of the apocalypse. it literally starts with an equivalent to “hey guys, i had this really wild dream,” and as such it’s very likely symbolic, though there’s also the chance that it’s completely meaningless, because dreams are like that sometimes. you can pull meanings and patterns out of nothing if you try hard enough, but that doesn’t necessarily make it true.
also, on the note of apocalypses, i’m gonna casually plug @apocalypseupdates, for all your “worried about the end times” needs.
tl;dr, dreams, visions and prophecies are steeped in symbolism, and basically none of it should be taken at face value. dreams can also sometimes be absolutely meaningless, and that’s perfectly okay. and no, the apocalypse isn’t here.
- metatron
google search: how to make the angelkin community stop w/ the fearmongering “there’s a big war coming” bullshit
So when are we gonna start talking about the fact that basically every angel has a body count?
An Idea:
The overwhelming majority of the angelkin community on Tumblr doesn’t actually want to engage in serious discussion (even if they say they do), most likely because it would require them to accept that Heaven wasn’t all sunshine and rainbows, and that terrible things happened that rival or even surpass the terrible things humanity has done.
Discuss.
True. The thought of abandoning ideas and concepts you have become comfortable and familiar with can be hard—especially if such ideas comfort you or bring you happiness—but if you accept every thing that makes you happy to be the only truth, then you very well may be blocking out important details to your story.
You don’t have to actively engage in discourse (for instance you can simply observe and read through other’s talked about topics), just try to always be open to entertaining other possibilities—you may find something new you never considered before!
The truth may not always be pleasant and what you wish, but sometimes the ‘bad’ details can be just as important, if not more, as the ‘good’ to who you really are.
Hey what’s up my name is Tempest and I’m a confused and slightly scared kinsidering kid. Y'all should follow me if you’re
a) kin
b) kinda frustrated with overly-positive kin blogs
c) a bit salty or unhappy or scared or feel negatively about your kintypes
d) interested in helping me maybe figure out my kintype
e) new to kin stuff and kinda scared
f) someone with a storm-related kintype
g) one of those people that was all “oh kin is dumb lol” until you realized you were kin and were all “oh….”
h) interested in seeing a bunch of “No fear / One fear” kin-related shitposts
one thing i heavily recommend, especially in regards to kin memories: question everything. even if you want to be right? question it. are you certain of it? question again. make certain. someone tells you a certain thing was a certain way? question it. compare it to what you know, see what adds up and what doesn’t. encourage healthy debate.
i’m not trying to be invalidating here, either. it’s just that the mind sometimes jumps to conclusions on things based on prior knowledge. the sky is blue, the grass is green, angelic holiness is associated with white and gold. it can easily lead to human ideas being imposed onto nonhumans. also, certain concepts and constructs that existed then no longer can be perceived accurately, since we no longer experience them, and so the mind fills in the blanks or leaves a void. it makes things easier to comprehend in some cases, yeah, but it also leads to the reality getting skewed, and certain things being flat-out missing.
example: the gardens in heaven are almost always described as seeming exactly like human gardens. why? angels interacted with humans in this hunk of reality, but they also existed long before humanity did. we functioned under different laws of reality. even if you’re of the belief that the realms are tied together, certain things that an angel can do simply don’t work here, because our world’s not constructed to work around it.
the two other major examples i can think of with this sort of thing are the libraries and the courts. every time i hear someone speak about the courts of heaven, they function almost the exact same the same as a human court, albeit sometimes with more judges. the jury, the trial, the sentencing, it’s all so extremely human. i mean, one could argue that libraries are also a human construct and wouldn’t be a thing in heaven. and that’s good! question it! question everything!
Why should I?
questioning is how you learn! if you accept everything at face value as fact, you’re going to end up accepting some things that aren’t true (half-truths are always a possibility, it’s almost never blatant right/wrong,) and if you’re unwilling to question things, you’ll cling on to those untrue beliefs and never move past them, regardless of what contradictory info emerges
human minds are a mess, even within stuff in this lifetime. it’s easy for things to be misremembered, and for details to change. factor in other lives, combined with other iterations of reality with entirely different laws, with things you might not be able to perceive correctly anymore, and previous assumptions that we might have based on things like pop culture, and you can see how things can get skewed fairly quickly. but it’s okay to be mistaken about something, and it’s okay to be wrong! there’s nothing wrong with it! mistakes aren’t the end of the world, and it’s far better to accept that you were incorrect and move on than excuse it as “alternate timeline/universe” and move on
hey so re: that one ask about timelines/universes, i read the comments and wanted to clarify!
I started using the terms “my timeline/universe/heaven” to describe my personal experiences, because I saw it being used and thought that was a good way to help specify that I’m not some infallible super-mod who remembers everything in perfect, objectively correct detail. I make hella mistakes.
I’m kind of dense, and I didn’t really realise that my use of those terms is encouraging people to not really reflect on their own (or other’s) memories, and reconciling differences as “well it must have been different in your timeline, because I’m right”
Whether or not you believe in multiple universes/heavens/timelines, you should always be analysing and thinking critically about your (and other’s) memories & experiences. I try to encourage this, but I think I haven’t been doing a great job! I’m def going to try rewording my language and explicitly stressing this in the future. Thank you guys for explaining your concerns w/ me & please do send constructive criticism if you feel like we (I’m) doing something harmful!!
#i literally thought i was a different angel until other people were like hmm idk that doesn’t sound right so this is actually important
I really wanna highlight this tag because it makes the point better than any essay could
people encouraging you or even telling you that some of what you say doesn’t sound right can be a very important step in your journey and you will be grateful for them in hindsight
do not push these people and interactions away! they’re helpful!
Honestly? Doubt cannot harm you. It literally can’t. Because there are only two paths to go – realizing you were wrong and rectifying your mistake with their help, or solidifying your certainty all the more! Questioning isn’t just about finding the things that are wrong about your opinion, but also about finding out where and why you’re right. You don’t just need people to call you wrong see that you were, but also to see that you weren’t. It’s a win/win. Nothing bad can come from this.
Tell yourself: If I’m truly as sure of myself as I say I am, then what do I have to fear? What can other people’s disagreement and the arguments they make do to what I know is true? What can they do but prove me right, or make me see something I hadn’t seen before?
Put your conviction to the test. I understand it’s scary, but what you know does you no good if your entire conviction is so easily threatened or even shattered. Strong beliefs aren’t strong because they do not get attacked, it’s because they can withstand the attacks. And you need to let your beliefs take a few blows to make them come back stronger.
questioning is Hugely good for you tbh, coming from experience on that. it’s how you learn! if you take everything at face value and ignore contradictions by saying “it’s just how my timeline was,” you’re very likely gonna end up accepting incorrect things. another important thing is to remember that, in terms of angelic stuff, we’re remembering a place with different laws of reality, and different standards and scales. in order to make it more easily understandable, human concepts get layered on top, sometimes skewing things a decent bit, and in cases like that it’s good to take a step back and reevaluate things. memories aren’t 100% correct all the time; they can be skewed, and they can be unintentionally falsified.
as a side note, if you don’t wanna question things, it’s good to take a step back and look at why you feel that way. are you certain in your beliefs? then why not put them to the test one last time? are you fearful of being wrong? understandable! there’s nothing wrong with being mistaken, though, even if the error is massive. everything’s a learning process.
Hello! a lot of human sources say i'm a throne / ophanim. problem is, i have 0 memories of being a wheel. is it possible that I perhaps wasn't a throne at all? My name is Ambriel.
by “being a wheel” do you mean having the form that’s depicted in scripture? like. literally a wheel on fire with eyes?
i personally think that a lot of scripture is flawed (there’s a lot of things that can go wrong when humans write things - confusion, mistranslations, things lost in age, etc) - for example, not all seraphim have six wings, and there are archangels that aren’t recorded. on the wheel thing - i feel like there’s a good chance some dude saw a few thrones with that form (or similar) and was like “ah-ha! behold, a wheel!”
if you think you might be a throne, then i think you should try to explore that more!
-Mod Anafiel
if you feel like the christian idea of choirs and spheres of heaven doesn’t fit you, don’t force yourself into those boxes. from my own memories and digging w/ some others, the angelic hierarchy is nowhere close to as clear cut as humans or most of the community make it seem. it tends to be made out to be rigid castes w/ specific roles, when that’s... really not the case. it’s human groupings being forced onto nonhuman things. there’s also an extremely heavy bias towards the christian view of the hierarchy
i ramble abt it [here], and someone else posted abt it [here]. another one not related to choirs but related to “humans forcibly categorising nonhuman stuff into human categories” is [here], b/c i get very frustrated by 2 enoch
Hey!! I was wondering,do you know/have any active angelkin discord servers?
I only know of ours, tbh! I knew there were a lot more about a year ago, but I don’t know if those are still active.
(message us off anon if you want the link to join!)
-Mod Anafiel
i know of two active ones, one i help run and one that a couple friends run. the first one’s a bit more metaphysics and serious talk oriented, the second is mostly memes. if you wanna join either feel free to pm me