i love this video of venus williams being protected by her dad during her interview. because it it depicts something that is usually so hard to pin point, even if you've been through it.
the journalist asks a seemingly normal question about whether venus thinks she‘ll win and she says yes. he comments on how confident she is, which she agrees to. then he asks her why she thinks this and she begins to provide her answer, elaborating on her previous reply. he continues to prod. people who have never experienced emotional abuse, never seem to understand how banal some of it can come across as. you might even be called overly sensitive for picking up on something like this. and i‘m not saying that the journalist is emotionally abusing her, but it begins where he lets off essentially.
he is, consciously or not, trying to get under her skin and into her head, even though she is still a child. he wants a certain reply from her, maybe for her to show humility or uncertainty instead of her steadfast belief in herself. he never yells or looks angry, but he is applying pressure wants her to essentially change her own assessment and opinion of herself and her skills to suit his (needs). maybe he wants a certain headline, maybe it’s just a personal thing. and this is when her dad steps in.
and rightly so, he recognises what is going on immediately and wants to protect his daughter from limiting thoughts that might crop up in her mind due to these questions. even seemingly simple questions like that can unsettle and make someone unsure of what they just said. especially if it's a child/minor vs an adult in a conversation. and when it's done over and over again.
now imagine if instead of it being a journalist, it's your parent and there is nobody to stop the questions and interrogation. a parent who feels threatened perhaps by your youth or innocence or curiosity and naivety, things you don't have any control over and should be able to experience like everyone else gets to. every time you try to assert yourself, discover who you are as a person, start hobbies, a sport, just sit in your room, or go outside with the one friend you have, anything really...you are pummelled by a barrage of questions meant to make you doubt yourself. sometimes it's small comments, sometimes they are snide, other times passive-aggressive. you are told you are worthless, unwanted, a curse, and will never make it or survive without them. you are blamed for everything, you are attacked, you are triangulated into arguments that have nothing to do with you, even the love you still have for your parent(s) is rejected or viewed with suspicion. this goes on for hours sometimes. over and over again for years on end through your entire formative years.
as a result, your sense of self shrinks, shame begins to build and anything you associate with yourself makes you doubt and question. is it even worth it, are you able to do it, what is the point etc…? you begin to feel like an imposter, no matter how much you practise or how good you are. you feel like all love/care is transactional and since you already think lowly of yourself you the thought that nobody would ever truly value you begins to form. and if they do, you cannot handle it and you sabotage. when you‘re at you lowest and need to come up with a way to solve your problems, their questions and doubts come up to the surface, instead of what you actually need.
as children, the most important thing to our survival is our parents. so if they say something negative about us, we align our own thoughts and opinions with theirs in order to be on their good side, in order to survive. even if we know what they are saying is wrong. it is hard to hold two opposing views at the same time (also a source of neurosis according to jung) so sooner or later something will have to give.
i recently re-discovered the concept of limiting beliefs. it's essentially core beliefs that we picked up, usually in our younger formative years, that helped us get through a rough time, but still continue to influence our behaviour. this is the next thing i will look into for myself.
people with covert and vulnerable manipulative traits, tend to be indirect when it comes to things like undermining you and destroying your confidence. it becomes especially damaging, if it happened to you when you were still a child and essentially did not know any better. especially if it came from authority figures such as guardians or parents. you will not even know to defend yourself and internalize what is essentially a manipulation that has more to do with the person telling you this stuff, than anything about you. it’s also known that children are most likely to internalize any criticism and negative treatment they receive as a survival technique, since they are helpless and likely to die without support and protection from parents and other adults. so anything flung your way at that age might have you concluding there must be something wrong with you, unable of even questioning the situation at such a young age or doing anything about it.
what is concern trolling?
it essentially boils down to packaging an (emotional) attack in words of empathy, humilty and concern that makes the attacker appear like they care about you. but they are actually looking to undermine your confidence, question your judgement, control your actions, make you doubt yourself or your perceptions etc…
examples:
a "friend" or "relative" might say something like "oh, i don't think you should wear that, there is a dress code at that place, we might struggle to get in." it sounds like they actually care about you looking good or not getting sent away at the door. when what they are actually feeling/thinking is that you really look good, and they can't handle that. you on the other hand, take what they said seriously and think they care because they are a friend and you are close and they're just worried about you. so you change into something else, but when you get to the place, you see a ton of people wearing what you had worn and nobody cares.
you have an idea to advance something in your life: start a business, go back to school, start a new hobby, a new sport, travel, anything really. and the concern troll will say "will you be able to still do X while you do your new thing?" or "are you sure it's the right thing for you, remember the last time you tried it, it wasn't so good." or "i heard so and so try that and it went horribly wrong, just keep in mind that it might not work, you know". etc…
or the concern troll will nag you about something they say you should be doing, but the goal posts keep shifting. this is especially relevant childhood experiences, because your guardians or parents are most likely to be said concern troll and have a lot of control in your life. they might tell you to start a certain hobby, and when you actually do, suddenly some other hobby is better (esp. if some other kid whom they deem inherently better than you is doing it). when you go out to play with friends, they said you are never at home and when you rot in your room, they say you're going to turn into a shut in with no friends. essentially, you can never please them whether you do or don't do what they say (and likely internalize this as something wrong with you). you might even point this out to them, how contradictory it is, and they’ll say they just care about you.
the concern troll will highlight risks while downplaying or ignoring your skills, experience and capability. they will feign empathy, while putting salt in your wounds (esp. if you are close and they know things about you). they will discourage you and trigger your fears, by encouraging you to be cautious and act in moderation. you will end up discouraged, anxious, confused and unsure of your own actions and decisions. concern trolling has a gaslight-y aspect to it. and again, if this happened to you when you were still a kid, you likely internalized it all. constant undermining like that might be a source of triggers, insecurities and anxieties you are not even aware of.
what do to when you realize you are being concern trolled?
here are some solutions i got from chatgpt, that are actually quite solid imo:
strong sense of self: this one is probably the hardest one, esp. for those with trauma or childhood trauma, but having a strong sense of who you are, what you want, what you are capable of, will have you recognizing and shutting such conversations down quickly, without internalizing them.
recognize the pattern: if someone keeps giving you advice that makes you feel discouraged and anxious afterwards, they're likely concern trolling.
don't take the bait: instead of losing yourself in conversation and arguments with them, simply say that you appreciate the concern, but that you've got it under control.
ask them for advice: most concern trolling is hollow and a tool to simply undermine someone. when prodded for more information or solutions, you likely won’t get much. but beware of people who will give you bad advice on purpose. i guess that can also be used as a test to figure out who you are dealing with, depending on what kind of reply you get.
set boundaries & call out: depending on the situation and the person you are dealing with, you can take a stronger stance and let them know outright that you do not need feedback on your decisions or call them out on what they are doing.
just thought i should share this, since i recently experienced this and it made me so angry and depressed, but i saw it for what it was and felt much better after thinking it through. and even at my big age, it still hurts and triggers anxiety to receive such feedback each time i try to improve something for myself. not saying i’m perfect or above criticism obv., but when i see a pattern (and arguably even 12 year old me already saw a pattern, she was just powerless) i refuse to take it or internalize it, you know?
The only child I have the capacity to take care of is my inner child. I do not currently want children, and I may never want children. My wounds are too deep. The amount of healing I need may take a lifetime, and I refuse to put any child through that.
Children deserve happiness without conditions. My health, both mental and physical, are conditions I WILL NOT subject any children to endure.
To the children I will probably never have, this comes from a place of love and selflessness. I just hope the world can understand.
“You can’t expect yourself to go from a negative mentality to a positive one overnight, but every time you correct a bad thought you are growing! So focus on your growth, not the fact that you aren’t “there” yet.”
This is exactly why I don't bother arguing with them about narcissistic abuse anymore. They think survivors are vulnerable, and love to imagine they're causing harm by invalidating our experiences.
Just refer them to the appropriate therapy (DBT) and block.
It's not my problem if untherapised narcissists would rather argue online than learn concepts of right and wrong that most seven year olds can grasp.
I don’t know who needs to hear this, but a child cannot ‘abandon’ a parent. There’s no such thing as parent abandonment. Either you cultivate a relationship with your child that encourages them to maintain contact with you as an adult, or they can leave. Full stop.
narcissistic abuse isn't real any more than "depressive abuse" is real. a mental disorder doesn't give someone a special unique way to abuse others. all abuse is just abuse
Narcissism is not a mental disorder. You're thinking of Narcissistic Personality Disorder. It takes like, 2 minutes on Google to learn the difference. Why should anybody prioritise your opinion over the opinions of thousands of licenced professionals if you can't even do that?
Did anybody else’s emotionally abusive mom tell them “you’re too young to wear X” until you turned 18, and then immediately changed it to “you’re too old to wear X” and constantly try to dress you like an old church lady? With a heavy sprinkling of “you’re too fat to wear X” and “your boobs are too big for you to wear X” thrown in? And now you’re close to 40 and teaching yourself to wear whatever the fuck you want even though you’re definitely fatter and older than you were then?
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