🐛🪱🪲🦋

Neutral shipper who’s an ex-anti and an ex-proshipper. Bro I’m tired.

[lungofthefang]

As an ex-anti, the way that some proshippers act regarding people who left the proship community due to traumatic experiences is honestly very disgusting and some of you really need to grow a heart.

Can you imagine a proshipper talking about their traumatic experiences as an ex-anti and in response, antis laughed at them? You all would be fuming, so why is it magically okay when it’s the reverse of that? “This is funny!” “Lmfao!” “Why seek help?” This isn’t even counting the times I’ve seen proshippers say that ex proshippers are dumb or evil or lacking in morals when being an ex proshipper ≠ being an anti.

Congratulations if you’ve never had a bad experience while in the proship community but a lot of other people, me included, can’t say the same.

[mirror-m3-me]

this IS funny because you’re brainwashed into thinking feeling shame about completely normal fantasies everyone has and harassing people is good actually!

also the video sounded more like religious fash lmao

[lungofthefang]

Neither me nor this person agrees that harassing people over fantasies is normal. They said nothing like that in their video and I’m completely against antis so you just pulled this accusation out of nowhere. This is what I mean when I say that it’s hard for people to leave the proship community or talk about negative experiences because you immediately get demonized for doing so.

[lungofthefang]

If it seems like I only call out proshippers despite being neutral is because 1. I was a proshipper longer than I was an anti and 2. Proshippers are the ones who preach about basing their community off of anti-harassment and anti-bullying so I put pressure on them to keep up their end of the deal.

[lungofthefang]

As an ex-anti, the way that some proshippers act regarding people who left the proship community due to traumatic experiences is honestly very disgusting and some of you really need to grow a heart.

Can you imagine a proshipper talking about their traumatic experiences as an ex-anti and in response, antis laughed at them? You all would be fuming, so why is it magically okay when it’s the reverse of that? “This is funny!” “Lmfao!” “Why seek help?” This isn’t even counting the times I’ve seen proshippers say that ex proshippers are dumb or evil or lacking in morals when being an ex proshipper ≠ being an anti.

Congratulations if you’ve never had a bad experience while in the proship community but a lot of other people, me included, can’t say the same.

[co0balt]

I typically don’t care for what proshippers/profic do so long as they tag and TW their content/account properly, as I wouldn’t even be considered the typical “anti” (I don’t harass people over these things, I just won’t like you or want to interact with you & I don’t like taking the risk of interacting with people who label themselves as “proship” since it’s such a vast label. It could either mean “I don’t want to harass people but I don’t post any triggering content myself” or “you’re gonna get an eye full of n4zi loli hentai” and I’d rather not have to scroll through a person’s content to find that out. I’d rather just not risk getting triggered in the first place), but good lord I hate when proshippers refer to antis as “fandom police” and say “acab refers to fandom police”.

My brother in Christ ACAB is meant for the corrupt law enforcement system (typically referring to US law enforcement) that allows cops to freely commit violent acts against & even murder marginalized people, racially profile, and resort to shooting before literally any other option with ZERO repercussions (and instead gives repercussions to cops that try to PREVENT their fellow cops from committing these atrocities). What ACAB is NOT meant for is for you to describe little Timmy who said “you smell bad” under your Dipper x Mabel fanart.

Saying that ACAB is also meant for “fandom police” completely undermines the importance of ACAB as both a saying and a movement & tells me nothing other than A. You’re ignorant and B. You don’t actually care about marginalized people, especially black people, and how recognizing that the police are objectively bad is extremely important.

[lungofthefang]

As an ex proshipper who’s a POC and had to endure racism in that community, this sends me up the fucking wall whenever I see it. It is VERY common for proshippers to use social justice language and vernacular to make it seem like shipping discourse is as important as actual social justice issues.

[slowlyshamelesscolor]

It is disgusting that people label neutralship users as assholes for not participating in shipping debates and accuse them of not caring that people are harming themselves.

There's possibly a reason they're not getting engaged, such as trauma. Perhaps they are not participating because harassment and bullying triggers them.

Stop forcing them to engage in discourse that will trigger them.

[slowlyshamelesscolor]

i feel like both proshippers and anti shippers speak over victims a lot? like its mostly non victims trying to dictate that how a csa/sa victim should or shouldnt act. also it feels like purity culture and bootlicking are heavily misused

Yeah, they speak over them much too much, which is wrong. No one should be speaking over someone anyone over fictional content.

[lungofthefang]

I think words like purity culture and bootlicking are misused by them because they want to feel like they’re taking part in a certain type of social justice by using social justice language while not really doing anything important.

[tamarahtalkstv]

Can You Imagine Thinking Of, Making, And Posting A Video Like This And Believing That Other People Need Help And Not You?

If you dislike certain fictional content, characters, or ships, then you don’t have to, but don’t make a video essentially telling people who like fiction and are AntiHarassment to get help.

There’s nothing to get help for unless someone can’t differentiate fiction from reality and condones it in real life.

As much as I want to make fun of this video, I also don’t because I actually feel really bad for the person behind it.

I don’t want to make massive assumptions, and I don’t think others should either, but I’m actually a bit concerned about them because no one makes a video with a fucking title or thumbnail like that if they’re okay.

Either something is wrong, they wanted to trend hop and clout chase on a popular topic right now, or both.

Fandoms and shipping going mainstream on YouTube was a terrible, terrible mistake.

[lungofthefang]

Believe it or not, there are people who have been harmed and traumatized while in the proship community. While I was in the proship community, I had to endure a lot of racism from white proshippers and I ended up leaving because MAPS started to contact me. I was 17 at the time. The proship community isn’t a perfect safe haven, people do get hurt and they have a right to speak on their experience. You say that you don’t want to make fun of this person and yet you’re telling them to get help as if them sharing their story about being groomed in a fandom community is harmful while also saying that they’re “hoping on a trend.” If there’s a trend of people talking about their negative experience in proship spaces then maybe there’s a problem proshippers aren’t addressing within the community.

[proshipwatermelonwriter]

Safe to say that I will never in my life be a "recovering" proshipper.

[lungofthefang]

There are different reasons why one may be a “recovering” proshipper or an ex proshipper because the proshipping community isn’t perfect and things do happen in it that may cause someone to leave it. For me I endured a lot of racism from the community and even took part in it when I was a proshipper. Like it or not some people have trauma with the community and to write off someone saying that they’re a recovering proshipper as them automatically losing intelligence or human decency is cultish behavior and that exact mindset leads people into saying that they’re recovering. No one is required to be a proshipper just like no one is required to be an anti. Proshipper is a fandom label and nothing more. You can be a decent human without labeling yourself as one.

[proshipwatermelonwriter]

Sorry but most of the recovering proshippers I've seen have been assholes who do end up being antis, you are talking about the rare ones.

[lungofthefang]

And I know plenty of them who don’t become antis and choose to be neutral. The point still stands that it’s not a good look to put everyone who’s recovering or leaving the proship community into a box and assuming that they’re automatically bad people or lacking intelligence because of it. Just how there are proshippers who are genuinely bad people, there are non proshippers who are good people. Being proship doesn’t guarantee that you’re some perfect, intelligent high IQ individual.

Also I honestly don’t know what you mean when you say that I “interact with antis” cause the only people I follow are neutral and even some proshippers?? Unless you label anyone who isn’t a proshipper an anti..

[proshipwatermelonwriter]

Safe to say that I will never in my life be a "recovering" proshipper.

[lungofthefang]

There are different reasons why one may be a “recovering” proshipper or an ex proshipper because the proshipping community isn’t perfect and things do happen in it that may cause someone to leave it. For me I endured a lot of racism from the community and even took part in it when I was a proshipper. Like it or not some people have trauma with the community and to write off someone saying that they’re a recovering proshipper as them automatically losing intelligence or human decency is cultish behavior and that exact mindset leads people into saying that they’re recovering. No one is required to be a proshipper just like no one is required to be an anti. Proshipper is a fandom label and nothing more. You can be a decent human without labeling yourself as one.

[elektroblues]

"Kill Him" & "Eat Him", Batik art by Diamanda Galás

[semisemi-pooh]

i hate when people say “recovering proshipper”. like how are you recovering from not harassing people? is minding your own damn business so bad to the point where you gotta say you’re “recovering”?

[lungofthefang]

Hey although I’m not “recovering” per say, Iam an ex-proshipper but I can see why someone would label themselves as a recovering proshipper. I myself had to endure a lot of racism from the community and even I took part in being racist towards other black people and POC. Being in that community did lead to actual MAPS trying to talk to me and I was 17 at the time. People have trauma from being a involved with the proshipping community and to deny that someone had to recover from being in that space is being dishonest. The community isn’t perfect. It has issues and it has bad people in it. You can be anti-harassment and not be a proshipper. You can be anti-censorship and not be a proshipper. Those are facts that y’all gotta consider and just deal with.

Edit: Just adding this on after reading the other reblogs on this post but…y’all…just because someone says they’re a recovering proshipper or even someone like me who is an ex proshipper doesn’t mean that they’re automatically going to be an anti. Telling someone that they’re now a horrible person just because they’re not a proshipper anymore is giving cult behavior. Some people (tbh MOST people) just..aren’t proshippers and that’s OKAY. People don’t need to be proshippers, it’s an internet label.

[taking-your-hand]

What exactly does "proshippers dni" mean? /gen

I'm not doing a semantics thing and I won't "correct" anyone's answer, I genuinely just want to know what type of person most antis are referring to when they say "proship/proshippers dni".

Because at first, I thought it was just... anyone with any type of dark kink or ship, or who believes that fiction does affect reality but just not on a 1:1 scale, but I think I've been mistaken about what antis generally want to avoid.

So I wanna know, because I want to respect people's dnis and I want to understand antis more!

The antis I have spoken with have given me the impression that while they may disagree with milder proship stances, what they REALLY hate is stuff like "Fiction never has an impact on people in any way!" or "If you don't like my kinks, you're inherently sex-negative!" or "MAPs should be accepted and trusted uwu" or whatever other frankly awful and untrue things they might say.

And it's like, if an anti hates those things, but is okay with milder or neutral stances, I would like to know. Because unfortunately I've been led to believe that most antis would consider anything that's not aggressively anti-proship to be just fully proship, so I just completely stay away to avoid causing any discomfort or trouble.

Anyways, feel free to reblog or reply with your personal feedback, and please be nice to each other. ^^ I don't intend to try and convince anyone of anything in this post, I just want to understand people with different perspectives. :)

Thank you!

[lungofthefang]

Usually it just means that they don’t want anyone who calls themselves a proshipper to reblog, like, send asks to them or message them and it can be due to a number of reasons. I’m neutral and very proship critical but when I did have “proshippers DNI” in my bio it was because I just left the community due to toxic stuff that I witnessed in it and just didn’t want to be associated with the community anymore. For me it’s mostly about labels. If I saw “proshipper” in your user or bio then I’d block you cause it’s one thing to agree with some values that could be considered “proship” (don’t harass, don’t send death threats, fiction affecting reality is more complex then some people think etc.) but it’s another to be active in the community.

[taking-your-hand]

Taking the time to respond to this one cause it's giving me a lot to consider. Hope it's okay that I just kinda ramble haha.

I think I definitely understand that sort of thing. The three values you listed ("don't harass, don't send death threats, fiction affecting reality is more complex then some people think") are definitely ones that I hold and that proshippers kind of claim "ownership" of in a way, and I agree that you don't have to be active in the community or even like it at all (or use the label) to hold those values.

And it's fair to assume that someone labeling themself proship comes with more connotations than just those values, because each community or label kind of ends up with common... occurrences, I suppose. Some of which are toxic or uncomfortable. ><

I struggled a lot last year with feeling isolated in the fandom I was in because I had been blocked by many artists who had "proship dni" far before I had started embracing the term or even any taboo ships that I was aware of. I don't know if it was because they perceived me as a proshipper regardless of my labels, or if it was merely because of a ship or art I liked. From the beginning, I assumed their assessment of my stance was right because I had been pretty firmly pro-darkfic/kink/whatever for years, but I hadn't once called myself proship until people had already started blocking me and sometimes even accusing me of breaking their dni.

I remember feeling pushed into the proship community by that isolation, which lead to me becoming super intimate with the discourse-y side of it and all the blemishes that came with it.

But to avoid getting off topic: I guess even as I begin to re-assess my position in this discourse and open my mind to sympathizing with antis more than I was ever comfortable doing before, I still wonder if me having those core beliefs you listed or being willing to associate with proshippers or just... liking some pretty screwed up art tbh, would slot me under the same dni regardless and continue the cycle of isolation. Or would I cease to feel so isolated over it if I no longer considered myself proship, in a more active way than merely using no labels?

It's sort of difficult for me to come to terms with the idea of fully separating myself from that label because so, so many proshippers insist that me having those values still makes me proship, and because I have been given the impression that many, many antis would still see me as an enemy of sorts.

Sorry if this was bothersome! I'm not asking you or anyone else to answer my life ponderings for me haha. It just super helps me to think about this stuff aloud sometimes.

Thank you for your feedback btw!

[lungofthefang]

It wasn’t bothersome at all!

I did understand the feeling of “okay people look at me as a proshipper so I might as well be one.” I got into proshipping as a teen because I was into killing stalking at the time which…if you were there in 2018 then you knew that people basically thought you were satan himself if you liked that comic. Because of that, people labeled me as a proshipper and so I joined the community and they embraced me with open arms. It wasn’t until things™️ started happening that I realized that I could still enjoy and engage with dark fiction without associating with that group. I think people still do block me because they think I’m a proshipper even though I explicitly say that I’m not but I don’t let it get to me. If someone blocks me I just ignore it and move on. I don’t know them, they don’t know me. They have a right to block me cause they’re creating their own fandom/internet experience even if it is misunderstood and I’ve just accepted that. Just as long as they don’t come after me

It also doesn’t help that people in both proship and anti communities think that just because you’re neutral then you must be secretly be pro or anti ship which is a very narrow way of thinking and looking at what this discourse actually is which is just fandom drama that doesn’t have any real merit in real life.

Also I think it’s important to keep in mind that basic “proship values” like anti harassment and so on and so forth are that values of most people which is how people become proshippers and get “trapped” in that community because “if I’m not anti harassment or pro free speech then leaving the community means that I’m going against that”. Or atleast that was my line of thinking when I tried to leave at first.

If either side sees you as an enemy then what is there to lose, really? Media literacy and engagement isn’t split between proship and anti, it’s much more complex then that.Sorry if I’m coming off as preachy 😭

[varilien]

he’s like if a rubber chicken were a person

[taking-your-hand]

What exactly does "proshippers dni" mean? /gen

I'm not doing a semantics thing and I won't "correct" anyone's answer, I genuinely just want to know what type of person most antis are referring to when they say "proship/proshippers dni".

Because at first, I thought it was just... anyone with any type of dark kink or ship, or who believes that fiction does affect reality but just not on a 1:1 scale, but I think I've been mistaken about what antis generally want to avoid.

So I wanna know, because I want to respect people's dnis and I want to understand antis more!

The antis I have spoken with have given me the impression that while they may disagree with milder proship stances, what they REALLY hate is stuff like "Fiction never has an impact on people in any way!" or "If you don't like my kinks, you're inherently sex-negative!" or "MAPs should be accepted and trusted uwu" or whatever other frankly awful and untrue things they might say.

And it's like, if an anti hates those things, but is okay with milder or neutral stances, I would like to know. Because unfortunately I've been led to believe that most antis would consider anything that's not aggressively anti-proship to be just fully proship, so I just completely stay away to avoid causing any discomfort or trouble.

Anyways, feel free to reblog or reply with your personal feedback, and please be nice to each other. ^^ I don't intend to try and convince anyone of anything in this post, I just want to understand people with different perspectives. :)

Thank you!

[lungofthefang]

Usually it just means that they don’t want anyone who calls themselves a proshipper to reblog, like, send asks to them or message them and it can be due to a number of reasons. I’m neutral and very proship critical but when I did have “proshippers DNI” in my bio it was because I just left the community due to toxic stuff that I witnessed in it and just didn’t want to be associated with the community anymore. For me it’s mostly about labels. If I saw “proshipper” in your user or bio then I’d block you cause it’s one thing to agree with some values that could be considered “proship” (don’t harass, don’t send death threats, fiction affecting reality is more complex then some people think etc.) but it’s another to be active in the community.

[lungofthefang]

When having discussions about certain words like p*dophile and abuse being thrown around haphazardly, these discussions should include the words nazi, fascist and cop. I can’t count how many times I’ve seen proshippers call someone those things during discourse and in every instance it was unnecessary. It’s especially not okay right now since those groups are on the rise and actively terrorizing people on a daily basis.

[oracle-fae]

x x x x

[sosuperawesome]

S’mores Slugs // Marshmallow Darling