I'm taking your hand, and I'm telling you: It's going to be okay

A support beam for any frightened shippers to lean on, and I mean all shippers: Antis, neutrals, and pros. You are ALL welcome. Read my pinned for more info! Banner Credit BG Credit

[taking-your-hand]

Frightened Fans Welcome 🫂

I made this because I want to offer a place for people who feel despised in fandom to safely talk about it. Specifically, people who have been, are being, or even fear being dogpiled/ostracized for their art, fan interests, or association with anything accused of being ""proship"".

The reason proship was in double quotes is because I generally understand "proship" to just mean the belief that one can indulge in fiction about horrible things without necessarily being horrible themselves. Proship is a belief. But a lot of people accuse things of being "proship" too (for example, calling a fictional pairing "a proship" or calling the act of indulging in taboo kinks "proshipping"), because the people who attack what they perceive as "proship" believe that proship means "content that endorses pedophilia/incest/abuse/etc." and/or "supporters of those things".

You do not have to be a proshipper or enjoy taboo fiction to send an ask. In fact, I made this with neutral- and anti-shippers in mind. Anyone is welcome. My only request is that you be civil. Anons are on and you can give as much or as little detail as you want to keep your identity safe.

Whether you want to vent about being in a sticky situation with your friend group, or want advice or new perspectives, or want to send positivity to other followers of this blog, or if you just want me to share your GoFundMe or something... I'll try to help!

Unfortunately, I can't emotionally handle having extended conversations about these topics in DMs, but I will answer your asks with as much care as I can.

I really wish I could provide endless support. But I'm just as messed up as everyone else and I need to take care of myself first. Because of this, I may also go on long hiatuses and I deeply apologize if I don't at least give a heads up before doing so, or if I take forever to answer you for any reason.

If you have friends who will support you for who you are, I strongly encourage you to reach out to them too! True friends will not dump you just because of a ship or kink you like.

And remember, you do not have to accept the diagnosis of "abuser" from strangers online over what fiction you like. You know yourself better than anyone else could. You're not a monster. It will be okay. Please spare some kindness for yourself.

─── ･ ｡ﾟ☆: *.☽ .* :☆ﾟ. ───

Here's a set of resources for people who have been harassed online.

[taking-your-hand]

I feel such horrible guilt for having a thing for yanderes. I love the trope to bits but I'm scared people will come after me for it

My apologies for taking longer to get to this one.

I'm sorry you feel so guilty over this. I totally understand why you would enjoy the trope, and it doesn't mean there's anything wrong with you. Just like eagerly anticipating what a ghost will do to someone in a horror movie, it can be thrilling to watch such a strange, over the top display of violence from a character. It's even more interesting when you add on the obsessive love and jealousy, or if the author came up with creative or weird ways for the yandere to hurt their victim.

I've also read stories that focus on the horror of being a yandere's target of affection, and some angles to explore that. Does the target return their feelings and thus overlook their crimes? Do they develop Stockholm syndrome after being relentlessly pursued for so long? Do they reject the yandere entirely and end up forced to stay with them?

Those are just examples off the top of my head for why someone could enjoy the yandere trope, but if your reasoning is different, that's okay too. I would say it's even okay if you feel sympathy for some part of the yandere's perspective, because knowing that a character isn't real allows us to safely engage with their beliefs and circumstances. And I think it's normal to be sad for a character while still acknowledging that their actions aren't okay or that their conclusions are wrong.

If anyone tries to shame you for enjoying yandere stories, just remember that you aren't hurting anyone and you aren't sick. You're simply enjoying a game of pretend, the same as superheroes fighting or trains crashing into each other, and that's safe and normal.

[taking-your-hand]

I was formerly involved in the anti-proship discourse, and all I have to say is: it’s exhausting. Both communities constantly argue, complain, and harass each other, with individuals between 13-40 years old involved, devoting their time to fighting over fiction. A few antis and proshippers have made accounts dedicated to mocking one another, thriving off the discourse. Many of them will get angry if you disagree with them on even one thing, labeling you as a member of the other community, deeming you the “enemy,” and harassing you for not agreeing 100%. Both groups are toxic, but when confronted about it, they deflect and blame each other, being too prideful to admit they have issues.

Numerous people have tried to avoid this mess but have been dragged into it, having a label forced on them despite not understanding or being too uninterested to participate. However, when people refuse to take a side, they risk facing harassment. People have been stalked, doxxed, or have committed suicide because of this nearly 10-year-old online war, but antis and proshippers have only doubled down on their fighting. They act as if they have something “important” to prove, trying to force the other to surrender as if they’ll be “rewarded” for their foolishness, ignoring the harm they’ve caused throughout the years.

I’m glad I left the anti-proship discourse because my online experience has been enjoyable and calmer since I have. This fighting between antis and proshippers must stop because no one benefits from the stress and harassment it’s causing.

I agree that the conflict is exhausting and that no one should have a label forced on them just so everyone can slot them into a category to judge them and treat them badly.

But—correct me if I'm wrong, with whatever evidence you'd like to send, but—I find it strange to suggest that proshippers and antishippers are equally at fault for there being constant fighting. This all began because people were doing fandom and shipping like normal and then other people started assigning moral weight to it until they saw fit to attack people who shipped "wrong". Then, it only got worse and worse and now we're at a point where antishippers are often so vicious that they'll do quite literally anything to hurt "bad" shippers, and proshippers are so on edge that they won't concede anything at all and view even innocent criticism of fiction as an attack.

But why wouldn't they be so defensive? I'm not saying they shouldn't try to better differentiate between an attack and a disagreement, but I understand how difficult that is to do when it feels like the meanings of those words have been torn to shreds anyway.

There absolutely are proshippers who go too far, harass others, and make "the discourse" their entire personality online. And that sucks. But if they're acting like that, it's most often born out of the years of unprompted abuse they've witnessed or even faced themselves, and we all know abuse causes strange and/or extreme defense responses to innocuous things.

I simply can't see both sides as equally accountable. The "important thing" proshippers are trying to prove is that they shouldn't be treated so horribly and that the average fan shouldn't just play along when someone writes a callout and tells everyone that they HAVE to block and avoid that person if they want to keep their own reputation in tact.

I reiterate the purpose of my blog: If you've been targeted or attacked for perceived "proship crimes" or even if you merely fear the possibility of that happening to you, that's what my ask box is for. And it doesn't matter if you're pro, neutral, anti, or don't care to categorize yourself. You're welcome to send one.

[taking-your-hand]

The issue with the anti/proship labels is how people center their entire being around them and the discourse. Some only speak and think about the anti-proship discourse, devoting their time to making accounts & blogs dedicated to arguing with, complaining about, or insulting one another. A few antis and proshippers are so paranoid that they’re constantly panicking about whether their friends, family, and co-workers are members of the other’s community, stressing themselves out. These online labels are meaningless in the real world, yet plenty of them act like it’s important because of how much they value it on the internet, being consumed by it. I hope many of them can break away from the labels and discourse so they can enjoy themselves more on and outside the internet.

I tend to hope for that too. I do appreciate the work being done to fight misinformation, but I'm always happy if a fan is able to enjoy themselves peacefully. I don't blame people for being stressed about these topics, though. I guess my only advice for now would be to make sure you're making art for you and having all the fun they're trying to take from you, even if you sometimes have to get something off your chest about the conflict.

[taking-your-hand]

The worst thing about the anti-proship discourse is how far it's gone. People are getting stalked, doxxed, and committing suicide because of this online war. Yet, antis and proshippers continue fighting anyway, blaming each other instead of taking responsibility for their communities' awful behavior, failing to realize they're both at fault. All they have to do is recognize they're taking shipping too seriously,  block each other and move on. However, both are too prideful to do this, believing they're taking the "moral high ground" by continuing their meaningless online war. Antis and proshippers are causing more harm than good with their discourse, ruining people's lives on and off the internet. 

Hmmm... I've struggled to answer this because I question whether my blog also contributes to the fighting. I'm not trying to divide people, but I'm not sure if I'm trying to unite them either.

After all, I have to acknowledge that I made this account as a refuge from the type of shame and/or aggression that comes from antishippers, even if the people taking refuge are still uncertain about proship beliefs, but just don't feel safe around their friends anymore.

I don't think the fighting happens for no reason, but I do think many people fail to pick their battles. Some proshippers are so invested in the conflict that they'll go out of their way to dunk on antishippers too*, which isn't generally productive unless the only goal is to make people see an opposition to the original post's views. That can be valuable too, but I've seen it cross into harassment or death threats a few times, and I hate that. Even when it doesn't get that bad, sometimes it is just pointless arguing and that energy would be better spent on educational posts or maybe even just venting in a safe space.

* (I'm not talking about correcting misinformation, but rather just opposing comments for the sake of it.)

I guess those are my thoughts on that? I don't think proshippers have the power to end the broader conflict for good, since they (or at least darkshippers) are the ones on the defensive in the first place, but I think individuals can learn to pick their battles and try to be more productive with the time they spend on this.

(I have two other asks that are remarkably similar to this one, so those answers might be shorter.)

[taking-your-hand]

having trouble figuring out how to respond to my asks, but I intend to. ^^;

[taking-your-hand]

Is this account still active?

I will answer this ask since I was going to make a post about it anyway.

I'm very sorry for disappearing for so long. The tragically simple reason I did is that I'm often driven to intense stress because of the many flavors of awful this whole "proship vs. antiship" thing turns into for so many people, and as much as I want to be available to help, it's more often than not that I just can't handle the topics.

That being said, I do want to continue using this blog. I can't make promises about when or for how long, but I want to, especially if there's anyone who has actually felt supported or helped here. I'll catch up to all my asks and notifications, and then I'll see what happens next!

Very, very sorry again for disappearing without warning! 🙏

[taking-your-hand]

Thanks for making this blog. A friend of mine in the Lego Monkie Kid fandom has been getting really controlling and has vaguely threatened to screenshot anything said by people they disagree with, and I'm willing to bet it will be out of context. They've smeared people in the past for disagreeing with them before, and they're messaging me under the guise of "making sure the others aren't attacking or manipulating" me, but I just feel even more unsafe. I'm scared to block or unfollow them, because they've jumped to conclusions before, and I'm sure they will again and will talk smack behind my back. I'm just so done. It makes me not want to participate in the community of LMK anymore.

Hello! I'm happy that you find comfort in this blog, and I do apologize for taking so long to answer this. 🙏

I'm really sorry that your friend is frightening you. It definitely sounds like a sensitive situation, especially with the friend checking up on you to make sure you're not being influenced by people they don't like or something. ><

I think it would be ideal if you could get out of that situation, but I understand that it can be risky when dealing with someone who's that trigger-happy against people they perceive negatively. I suppose you could try to slowly distance yourself and hope they eventually stop thinking about you and thus don't notice when you unfollow them, but I'm not sure how reliable that is.

I'm struggling to think of better advice, so I'll tag this with some proship tags if that's alright, cause they usually have some thoughts about this sort of thing that might help, and I'll see if anyone I know has ideas too.

Either way, I wish you the best and hope you stay safe, Anon. 💛

[taking-your-hand]

I really wanna start streaming on twitch and making Minecraft roleplays on YouTube (my main inspirations are Nihachu and Aphmau) but I’m really scared of people seeing that I’m a comshipper and trying to cancel me for it. I know how bad it can get, I’ve seen people leak faceless’ streamers address’ over petty drama and I’ve seen others snooping through youtuber’s Facebook just because they like them, I can’t imagine how much worse it would be if they disliked the person. I’m super scared of that happening to me because I’m openly comship. Not to mention the amount of people who’ll go around and call me horrible names, I once saw a Vtuber refer to Venti as a shota and they were called the dirtiest most gut-wrenching names. I’m already really sensitive so I don’t think I’d be able to handle it :(

Oh goodness, I have very similar fears myself. >< I am working on some projects that I intend to publish as original works that I do hope people will enjoy and be inspired by, but I'm always fearful of the people who will try to drag my name through the mud because I'm very openly defensive of The Bad Kinks™ and much more aggressively on my main than on here too, heheh!

I've seen... horrible things happen to artists, especially when they already have little power in society and the people with more power find it much easier to just kick them instead of standing up for them.

It's bizarre to me that I have yet to be so viciously targeted, and I really wonder if it comes down to popularity. Anti-kink people don't particularly care about me because I'm just a small Tumblr user, but on the other hand, god help me if I explode in a fandom one day or make a beloved game/show/etc. THEN, I'll face their wrath for daring to seek out success and happiness for myself, because I'm "tricking" or "manipulating" fans who don't realize how "problematic" I am. -_-

And certainly, some of it comes down to luck as well, because lots of small artists also get targeted. 😔

I don't think I have THE answers, but... I can tell you what I try so hard to internalize myself.

First of all, you have every right to the space you occupy as everyone else, regardless of your kinks or views on such. Contrary to what some people will claim, you are not intruding and you are not falsely advertising yourself. It's important to always keep that in mind. The idea that comshippers hurt people by being in their spaces is like saying they hurt people by standing in the same line at McDonald's pff. It's unrelated and ridiculous.

Secondly, as sad and perhaps pessimistic as this is, there will NEVER be a person or property that these extreme, one-note, closed-minded bullies won't target. No matter how much care you put into a story or presentation, there will be someone ready to twist it into something negative, or try to gatekeep your own fans if they do think you're on "their side" and "would never support these bad ships", etc. And here is the silver lining to that: Because this attitude is inevitable, you need not try to sand down your work to please such people. Anyone who would put so much energy into hating and tearing down someone for their art: their opinion of you is absolutely worthless. It's best to skip the needless pain and doubt they'll cause, and worry about the opinions of people with something of merit to say. People who criticize you in good faith, not the brainless screechers who just can't stand their own existences.

I feel like there is certainly more, and perhaps even better, advice out there for you, but I hope this was at least a start. As I said, I struggle with this fear too, and I think I have yet to fully embrace my own solution, especially since I haven't yet put out my projects heheh.

But either way, hope it helps. <3

And of course, I welcome any further advice from others on this! Lord knows I need it too haha.

Real quick, note that my rather vitriolic language is directed specifically at harassers and abusers, not at all self-identified antis.

[taking-your-hand]

Casual reminder that not everyone experiences mental illness and trauma the same way, and there is no "correct" way to do so.

Doing your best not to hurt others is all I'll ever ask of anyone.

Also, if the way other people cope is hurting you, then you need to stop engaging with it. What comforts one person may devastate another, and that doesn't make either of you wrong.

You just need to take care of yourself, and take what responsibility you reasonably can for your own mental health. On the flip side, of course, people need to do their due diligence in making their stuff filterable. I'm never going to say "don't look at it" when the content wasn't avoidable.

Buhh buhh pretty standard stuff, but whatev.

[taking-your-hand]

Oh dear, I nearly forgot about this account. Sorry about that! Sometimes I just really need to look away from all this stuff.

I'll try to answer the other ask I got tomorrow if I have time. 🙏

[taking-your-hand]

I often see people who are neutral on the matter just seem to thinking that are above it all and talk about anyone who cares or is interested in the topic as cringe weirdos.

I like to call it arrogant apathy

I fully hate that attitude as well. I feel like the word "neutral" has a connotation of not caring, but when I call myself "neutral", it just means that I don't completely align with one side and can criticize both while still having my own strong stances on the various topics that come up. I certainly care a LOT, to the point that it hurts sometimes, and I suppose "neutral" isn't a good description of that.

But yeah, I definitely agree that people who turn up their nose and mock us for caring about this are obnoxious. I recognize that many of us care too much, to a point that this "discourse" takes over our lives, and I think that's unhealthy. But I also understand why it keeps ending up like that.

It's hard not to care once you've witnessed so many people who ARE minding their own business and not investing themselves in discourse getting their lives screwed with anyway, because someone saw fit to punish them for what they do in their own spaces. I've tried many times to stop caring, but I cannot.

[taking-your-hand]

You seem like a really nice person. Thank you for making this blog, I appreciate you ^^ /gen

Awww, thank you so much for saying so!

I often wonder if anything I do in discourse is helpful at all, so it makes me very happy to know someone is getting something good out of it. <3

[freakrabbit02]

hot take: people are ALLOWED to be neutralshippers, and you should not in any circumstance try to push them into one label or the other (looking at you, posts that are like "neutralshippers are just proshippers who don't wanna admit they're proshippers!!")

y'all seem to ignore that many neutralshippers quite literally don't fit into either category because they often tend to both have some proship-adjacent opinions, while also having some anti-adjacent opinions. it's not fair to try and claim that they're all "basically proshippers" because they're not, the whole fucking point of being neutral about something is NOT be forced into either category 🫠

it's every neutralshippers right to decide which group they're comfortable with, or whether they even have a preference at all. you can't decide that for them

- sincerely, a frustrated proshipper

[shipping-strawberry-deactivated]

you don't have to justify your interests and hyperfixations to anyone.

you are allowed to enjoy them regardless of what others think. (⁠っ⁠.⁠❛⁠ ⁠ᴗ⁠ ⁠❛⁠.⁠)⁠っ 💞

[taking-your-hand]

What exactly does "proshippers dni" mean? /gen

I'm not doing a semantics thing and I won't "correct" anyone's answer, I genuinely just want to know what type of person most antis are referring to when they say "proship/proshippers dni".

Because at first, I thought it was just... anyone with any type of dark kink or ship, or who believes that fiction does affect reality but just not on a 1:1 scale, but I think I've been mistaken about what antis generally want to avoid.

So I wanna know, because I want to respect people's dnis and I want to understand antis more!

The antis I have spoken with have given me the impression that while they may disagree with milder proship stances, what they REALLY hate is stuff like "Fiction never has an impact on people in any way!" or "If you don't like my kinks, you're inherently sex-negative!" or "MAPs should be accepted and trusted uwu" or whatever other frankly awful and untrue things they might say.

And it's like, if an anti hates those things, but is okay with milder or neutral stances, I would like to know. Because unfortunately I've been led to believe that most antis would consider anything that's not aggressively anti-proship to be just fully proship, so I just completely stay away to avoid causing any discomfort or trouble.

Anyways, feel free to reblog or reply with your personal feedback, and please be nice to each other. ^^ I don't intend to try and convince anyone of anything in this post, I just want to understand people with different perspectives. :)

Thank you!

[problematiquehell-inactive]

Most of the ones I found are against even the most mild proship stance. I'm not a proshipper because I don't 100% agree with either community but there are people on both sides that believe if you don't 100% agree with either side you're the enemy

[taking-your-hand]

Yeah, I can say I've seen that mentality from both sides for sure. ><

Also hope you don't mind, I got an ask tagging you and it seems to merely be adding to this discussion, like... a private reblog or something? So I guess I'll publish it? ovo

[problematiquehell-inactive]

This is a blog for my problematic ships so I usually tag it in anon asks to indicate I'm speaking without revealing my main blog

[taking-your-hand]

Ahhh okay! I think I get that. Not wanting to have discourse n stuff on your account since it's dedicated to your problematic ships?

[taking-your-hand]

@problematiquehell: I'm neutral but I'm more against antis than I am against proshippers. I'm not really into killing stalking or lolis and I'm not a proshipper by proship standards, but I cope with teen x adult content and yanderes (due to my own abuse) but most antis come and go "you should be abused more! You actually deserve your abuse" and when you're getting this thrown at you it's almost too easy to get swept up into proship spaces.

Yeah this is pretty close to my experience as well. >< If I recall, I think I talked about it in more detail in other reblogs of that post as well!