Hello! I’m a little confused when it comes to Chinese sash/belt in Hanfu.
I was under the impression that the Hanfu had a much thinner waist sash, unlike the Japanese that have an obi sash that is very wide.
But I keep coming across images/art with Hanfu having a wide sash, mostly on woman’s Hanfu. Is this accurate or am I correct in thinking it is inaccurate?
Will post a image I found online as example.
Before I dive into it (and this isn't exactly what you asked), but I'm going to preface this by saying while Hanfu belts had varying widths during different periods, none of it came close to the width of the Japanese obi (for women), and it wasn't made of the same material or worn the same way either. Some people use the belt as one way of identifying Hanfu vs Kimono, and I just want to say you can't just go off of pictures (especially drawn ones), there's a lot of detail and nuance to check.
(Also the writing in the attached picture is Korean...I don't know the background of the artist or how well they might know about the details of Hanfu.)
The widest belts for Hanfu would've been during the Warring States/Qin/Han periods, worn with Zhiju (直裾) robes, worn between the Warring States period through the Qin Dynasty, and also into the Han Dynasty (although not all Zhiju HAD to have a wider belt). So here are two examples:
These are two historically accurate recreations. Worn low on the waist, tied with a HOOK. There have been many belt hooks from the Warring States/Qin/Han dynasties unearthed and they look like this:
I honestly think these are so beautiful, to have been crafted 2000-3000 years ago without the use of machinery, amazing *-*
ANYWAY! Here's what you'll see a lot of when you search of Zhiju/直裾:
Putting aside some of the other inaccuracies, you see that string around the waist, holding that belt in place? That's not historically accurate, and these belts being intricately designed are too narrow. If they used a slimmer belt to casually tie the robe together, it would basically be a strip of fabric, if they used an actual decorated belt it would be wider. BUT, it's the way most stores (99% of stores) have designed their Zhiju robes. And it looks pretty. And not a lot of people know that's inaccurate (nor do most people care THAT much) so...you know.
You'll also notice they're wearing the belt closer to the natural waist, which, looking at historical paintings and sculptures isn't accurate, but it accentuates the waist and lengthens the legs which suits our aesthetics today (I also think we're not really used to having low-sitting belts, I know if my belt went down to my hips I'd feel like lifting it up just naturally). The way worn by the two people up top (the historically replicated way) with the belt sitting lower, lengthens the torso, which doesn't fit our aesthetics nowadays (in the East or West).
Have a look at these artefacts:
You can see how low the belt sat, and these would be the slim, casual belts. This mural shows a wider belt, you can see it's also sitting quite low:
Sometimes ruqun/襦裙 （where the top shirt and bottom skirt are separated) also had slightly thicker belts (separate from the skirt, it wasn't attached), but this wasn't mandatory:
So, looking at the picture you sent with the ask, that's a ruqun/襦裙, but that belt is far too wide (and I can't tell if that's a bixi/蔽膝 over top of the skirt? Or if that's an apron? It looks like there's 2 layers to the skirt. If it's a bixi/蔽膝 it should be slimmer).
The way this image is drawn (for the woman), if no one told me anything about it, my first reaction would be she's Japanese. That belt and the hair style makes me immediately think Japanese. But then the silhouette also isn't quite right for a kimono, and the sleeves and length of the robe is more Hanfu.
For anyone interested (and because I happen to be in Japan right now and did some kimono rentals :D), these are kimono obi (there's also different types of kimonos and obi, the wide belt worn with kimono):
(Collar is right-over-left because I didn't mirror the photos. Like Hanfu, Kimono collars SHOULD be left-over-right.)
Pic 1, 2: Regular kimono, slightly more formal obi (the back is called "drum style")
Pic 3: Houmongi (訪問着), semi-formal kimono worn for more formal situations, has a continuous pattern from shoulder to hem, across the seams.
Pic 4: Regular kimono with casual obi
Underneath that obi in pics 1-3, there are towels to make my waist wider (I know), there are straps, there's a binder over my b**bs smooshing them down, there's this hard board thing around my entire abdomen for the pink kimono, there's a puffy pillow under the back "drum" to lift it, there are layers upon layers upon layers of things. I was once told that the ideal front silhouette for the kimono is flat, so they smoosh the b**bs and widen the waist to make it flat.
The obi in pic 4 and 5 doesn't have any layers underneath, but given the fabric of the obi, and it's wrapped around my waist a few times, it's still difficult to bend. I never have issues bending in Hanfu, I may need to struggle with 10 layers of fabric sometimes, but I can bend when needed.
Also, you'll notice that the bottom ends right at the top of my feet, no touching the floor (for these styles, there ARE some styles like the oiran where it DRAAAGS on the floor, but when they go outside they'll wear taller shoes and lift up the bottom). Unlike Hanfu where you WANT it sweeping the floor (unless you're going civilian style, you know the workers of society, but the ideal design is for the feet to be hidden).
To me, Hanfu just tends to give a more flowy feel, while the kimono seems more rigid (not saying either is bad, I like both). Sharp lines, 90 degree corners, every crease, every fold is in a certain place. The Hanfu you want it flowing, it trails behind you when you walk, when the breeze blows past it just flutters in the wind. Nothing's fluttering in the kimono except my heartrate when I walk too fast xD
(PS. for anyone interested in Kimono rental if you visit Japan, here's a tip: When they tighten the multiple straps, binders, fabric, towels, obi around your waist, breathe IN! Expand your chest and abdomen as MUCH as possible, and these rental store ladies are STRONG. They will try to WRING your breath out of your lungs. DO NOT LET THEM!! xDD If you want any chance at breathing for the rest of the day, or eating anything, BREATHE IN every time they tighten anything around your waist. The first time I did kimono rental, the pink one, I didn't do that, I was EXHAUSTED the entire day. I couldn't breathe T___T Puff your chest out like these birds impressing their mate, trust me, it's for your own survival xD)
I hope that was helpful to you, even though I veered off-course ^^;; I mean, I'd take anything drawn with a handful of salt, I don't think most of them are going for historical accuracy by any means. Much like the Chinese period dramas nowadays, there's a LOT of artistic liberty taken.
