Or, I take a look at four different language versions of Mori's character profile to try to debunk this rumor.
You guys probably know the rumor that goes like "Tamaki wasn't supposed to end up with Haruhi, it was going to be Mori, but Tamaki became more popular and the mangaka changed her mind"
Like many others in this fandom, I'm tired of people blindly believing it so I was trying to write a post about how I think this rumor started. I was originally going to focus more on the "it changed because Tamaki became popular" part, because I felt that the "Mori was supposed to be endgame" part of the rumor had already been dissected by other people.
Except when I was I looking for Mori's character profile (the infamous quote that is believed to be the source of it) to use for my post, I found different versions of it depending on the translation. And maybe the "Mori was supposed to be endgame" part needs a bit more dissection, actually.
Especially since I couldn't understand at first why Mori of all hosts is the focus of this rumor, because MoriHaru was pretty much a rarepair before this.
Now I'm going to analyze both the "Mori was supposed to be endgame" part and the "it changed because Tamaki became popular" parts. And I think I may have a pretty good theory for how this rumor started.
Here is my analysis under the cut:
(Beware there are probably some spelling mistakes bc it's 2AM and english is not my native language)
The MoriHaru rumor is widely believed to have come from a quote from Hatori in a manga volume. More exactly, Mori's character profile.
So let's take a look at his character profile for a second.
The English translation that gets passed around goes like this:
"If I leave him alone, he winds up being a 'quiet, sober-faced fellow' so he makes Hatori groan a lot. But his love is vast (laugh), so there's at least an outside chance of Haruhi and Mori becoming a couple."
Here we have what might have confused some people. "Outside chance of Haruhi/Mori becoming a couple" doesn't mean they were supposed to be endgame, it means there is an unlikely chance of them being a couple.
Makes sense people would misread this. But I've always felt it was such a weak sentence to start this entire rumor… especially when there is literally shippy art of Haruhi with every host in the manga. Wouldn't any other character have started a similar rumor? Why would such a weak sentence start something so big?
But I was looking for a clear picture of the English profile to add to my original post idea when I stumbled over the Spanish version. And it got me confused because it was worded differently:
If you don't know Spanish, this is very similar to the English text, except the ending says:
"My (Hatori's) favorite couple is Mori + Haruhi, maybe."
Wait, we have an entirely different sentence here! This one implies Hatori likes MoriHaru more than the other couples, which could point to this being the source of the rumor. But I'm not satisfied. This is not enough. Let's dig deeper.
Spanish is not my native language, so I went to my actual native language, which is Brazilian Portuguese. Fortunately I have the entire collection with me, so I opened volume one to find this:
The first sentence is pretty much the same as the English and Spanish versions, but the rest says "He ends up worrying me, because he gives me the impression he will end up turning the story around. But I like him a lot (laughs). Maybe my favorite couple is Mori and Hani"
And that Hani bit is a fucking mistranslation from the Brazilian Portuguese print! It's supposed to be Haruhi, not Honey. This is the second time I find a mistranslation in this volume! This is why shoujo manga doesn't sell well here, publishers!
But the rest of the text is interesting. He could "turn the story around" (this is the closest translation I can give you for the word "reviravolta"). That means he has the potential to change the plot. Interesting. Seems in line with the rumor of Hatori's plans changing.
Now we have three different translations here, all of them pointing to different things. It's a bit confusing. Which one is the real translation?
But you don't know the depths to my obsession! I do have the first ouran volume in Japanese! And there is no better way to solve this mystery than to look at the original text!
I'm not fluent in Japanese but I have six semesters of beginner level Japanese under my belt + it's 1 AM 2AM and I should be asleep because I'm going to cosplay Tamaki at a con tomorrow + I drank an entire cup of green tea and I'm shaking AND THIS IS THE PERFECT TIME TO FALL IN A TRANSLATION RABBIT HOLE!
Here is a pic of the Japanese text taken straight from the manga:
In the Japanese text, Hatori says Mori/Haruhi (yes, HARUHI, not Honey) is a 大穴 couple. I searched 大穴 on a japanese dictionary app and this is what it means: "Long shot win (in horse racing), big winnings (on a Long shot), a killing (made from a bet)"
So THAT'S probably where it came from. She called MoriHaru an unlikely win and people thought it meant she was planning for him and Haruhi to be a surprise endgame in the long run. Looks similar to the english version, but I feel it has more "winning connotations" here, you know? Add this to the translation calling them Hatori's favorite couple and you have the likely source to the confusion: People thought it was her favorite couple and that it would win in the long run, surprising everyone.
From this to "they were supposed to be endgame but it got changed" it's not a big leap.
I should try translating the rest of the japanese text but let me do it another day when it's not 2AM, thanks
But that does not mean she was planning for them to be canon. If anything it's more likely she didn't know who to ship Haruhi with at first (there are other quotes from the manga that support this or the "Tamaki was always endgame" theory).
So another part of the mystery seems to be solved, but none of this explains the whole popularity part of the rumor. You know, when people say Tamaki became the male lead because he was more popular than Mori.
We know this is highly unlikely because Mori actually got second place at the first popularity pool, losing only to Haruhi. And Tamaki wasn't the only popular character in the group. You can see this in depth in this post by another person.
So where could people have taken that from?
You know which other shoujo fandom has a very similar rumor? Boys over flowers (a.k.a. Hana Yori Dango a.k.a. Meteor Garden).
If you are into that manga, you have probably heard that "Tsukasa wasn't supposed to be the male lead, Rui was. But Tsukasa won the first popularity pool and the mangaka changed her mind."
(Listen, I'm a huge boys over flowers fan but I'm not sure if this is true in this fandom either. I'm not a huge interview reader, so if anyone has a source where Kamio says this, please send it to me.)
But in boys over flowers case it at least makes a bit more sense! Tsukasa did win the first popularity contest (Rui got third place). And I've seen this rumor on bof fansites from the 90s/early 00s, so this one has a higher chance of being true compared to the ouran one.
Honestly, the first time I heard the Mori rumor my first reaction was "???? I've heard this before in another fandom????"
So my guess is that the rumor about Boys Over Flowers somehow jumped to Ouran. But how did people mix up completely unrelated series from different mangaka and magazines? It's not that hard to imagine. They are both popular reverse harem series with the same basic concept (poor girl in rich school with rich boys).
My guess is that someone saw the Mori thing and thought "oh, so it's like boys over flowers where the male lead changed because the other was more popular" and it snowballed from this.
Again, I could be wrong and maybe there is a Hatori quote somewhere on the internet proving the rumor. But for now, I'm going to believe it's a mix of mistranslations/misinterpretations and people jumping to conclusions.
(And this is not an attack on people who ship MoriHaru, btw. Ship whatever you want. This is just about the rumor)
I've been wanting to write this up for a while, and now that I've finished my JP AG watch, I can. As a companion piece to the post I had about localization changes that leaned into contestshipping (there's maybe one line I missed in that post), this one has some localization changes that took away from contestshipping.
Fair warning, but this is pretty long. All translations are mine; some of them may not be smooth because I wanted to try preserving the original line as much as possible.
I'd be remiss not to include this. Prior to AG113, Shuu refers to Haruka as "Haruka-kun", appending the -kun to her name as a means of condescension (when he isn't using kimi, "you"). This episode marks the moment he drops the -kun and calls her "Haruka" permanently. You won't miss the shift in their dynamic in the dub either, but in Japanese, it's made completely clear with this change.
Fun fact about Shuu: he only ever uses -kun or no honorific with Haruka. Every other character we see him interact with is -san out of politeness or distance, if he says their names at all. Satoshi and co are kimi-tachi ("you guys") and he never addresses Harley by anything, not even kimi.
AG123: Rhapsody in Drew (決戦！グランドフェスティバル➂！！)
English:
Caroline: May will give it her best, I'm sure of that.
Japanese:
Mitsuko「宿命の対決って感じね」
(It feels like a predestined/fated matchup, doesn't it?)
Haruka's mom says this line before the Haruka vs Shuu match begins. The rivalry is such a core component to Haruka and Shuu's relationship, one that's central to both Grand Festivals, and changing the line here feels like it shifts the focus to Haruka instead of their clashing as rivals.
宿命の対決 (shukumei no taiketsu) is a really battle shounen phrase, but I wanted to note the word shukumei ("something determined before birth that can't be avoided") because it comes up again later.
English:
Caroline: Yes, he's certainly a very good Trainer, huh? And I don't expect he's the type to take it easy on someone who's down either.
Japanese:
Mitsuko「確かにシュウ君ってすごい子ね。しかもなんだかハルカを挑発してるように見えるわ」
(Shuu-kun certainly is incredible. What's more, it almost seems like he's provoking Haruka)
Flygon dodges Combusken's attack and Haruka gets an eyeful of the sun. Takeshi then mentions how Shuu's making good use of the open stage. Mitsuko, however, doesn't feel like the move was purely strategic; he's purposefully drawing Haruka out too. It's a verbal acknowledgement of how they interact as rivals that we don't quite get from her dub line.
English:
Drew: I'm still determined to become the top coordinator someday. Hey, I'm already thinking about attacks I might wanna use in next year's festival!
Japanese:
Shuu「僕はトップコーディネーターを目指す。僕にしかできない方法でポケモンたちを輝かせるんだ」
(I'm aiming for Top Coordinator. I'll make my Pokemon shine in a way only I can)
I've got this one here because the 4Kids dub altering this line ends up looking silly when May calls back to it in The Unbeatable Lightness of Seeing! with the TPCi dub:
English:
May: Remember? When you told me you needed to find a battling style that was yours and only yours? Well, I want to find my own style too, and learn how to show off my Pokemon a lot better than I do now. All my own, like no one else!
Japanese:
Haruka「いつかシュウ言ってたよね？『自分にしかできない方法でポケモンたちを輝かせたい』って。私も自分だけの方法を見つけたい。もっともっとポケモンたちの魅力を引き出したい。私にしかできないやり方で！」
(You said it before, didn't you? "I want to make my Pokemon shine in a way only I can". I want to find my own way too, to draw out the charm of my Pokemon more and more. In a way only I can!)
With the dubbing company changing between S8 and S9, this was kind of out of their hands, but the mismatch means you might miss how influential that conversation on the beach is to her.
AG143: The Saffron Con (ポケモンコンテスト・ヤマブキ大会！(前編))
English:
Harley: I wonder if your little rival will enter this contest.
Japanese:
Harley「あ～ら、やっぱり二人は宿命のライバルなのねえ」
(Well now! So [as I thought] you two are predestined/fated rivals after all, huh?)
Here's that shukumei word again, this time in 宿命のライバル (shukumei no raibaru). Haruka and Harley both mention running into Shuu in Kanto and he says this line. It's another comment about their rivalry that gets lost in the dub, but also a small nod towards how convenient it is that they'd run into each other despite never talking about where they were planning to go.
English:
Brock: Gee Drew, why don't you tell us how you really feel?
Japanese:
Takeshi「全くシュウはハルカには厳しいな」
(Geez, you sure are tough on Haruka)
"Wasn't this in the other post?" Yep. One of the things this episode does in spades is show us the difference in how Shuu treats Haruka vs other people. This line, the way it's phrased in Japanese, serves a similar purpose. What Takeshi is saying is "I don't know about anyone else, but at least towards Haruka specifically, you're critical/harsh", highlighting the contrast.
English:
Brianna: C'mon, May! It seems to me your feelings for Drew go way beyond just contests and battling.
May: Huh? Me and Drew? He's just a rival, that's all!
Brianna: Oh yeah? Well, I wanna know if you like Drew!
May: Like him!? To be honest, I've never really given it that much thought...
Brianna: For your information, as soon as I win this, I'm telling him that I love him!
May: That's fine with me except for the 'soon as you win this' part.
Japanese:
Wakana「ハルカさん。結局ハルカさんってシュウ様のことどう思ってるんですか？」
(Haruka-san. So what/how do you think of Shuu-sama?)
Haruka「はあ？シュウはライバルよ。いつか絶対に勝ちたい相手」
(Huh? Shuu's my rival. Someone I absolutely wanna win against someday)
Wakana「そうじゃなくって。好きかどうかってことです」
(That's not what I mean. I'm asking whether you like him or not)
Haruka「好き！？そ…そんなこと意識したことないし…急に言われても…」
(Like him!? I...I've never considered it before...so even if you suddenly ask me...)
Wakana「私、ハルカさんに勝ったら、シュウ様に告白しようと思ってるんです」
(I'm thinking of confessing to Shuu-sama once I win against you)
Haruka「えっ！？あっ、ワカナがそう決めたんならそれでいいかも」
(Huh!? Um, if that's what you've decided, then [I guess] that's fine)
The part I wanted to highlight is how Wakana asks Haruka rather than the more pointed accusation in the dub, which colors how Haruka/May responds. The dub line feels like she understands the implication on some level, whereas the original line gives her that wiggle room to take the question at face value. "What/How do you think of Shuu?" → "He's my rival!"
She doesn't register her fixation as anything else, something Wakana picks up on, so it flows much better into the next set of lines when Wakana clarifies she meant "do you like him". Then she turns red, flounders with her answer, etc etc. This becomes relevant come The Unbeatable Lightness of Seeing!.
Detour note: Haruka has a habit of frequently ending her sentences with -kamo (short for kamoshirenai, an expression of uncertainty like "maybe"), which doesn't quite make it into the localization. Harley calls attention to it all the time, but it's usually treated more like white noise. I've written "I guess" in brackets for the last line to reflect that it's there.
AG174: New Plot, Odd Lot! (ハーリー＆ロケット団！悪役同盟結成！？)
English:
Drew: Guess it had to be.
Japanese:
Shuu「そうこなくっちゃね」
(That's what I'm talking about/That's how it should be)
He has all of three lines in this episode (four if you count the flashback), but here's one where I don't think the localization really captures what he means. The phrase そうこなくっちゃ (sou konakuccha) is used often in response to something turning out the way you wanted, and he says it right after Haruka makes it past the appeal stage. The dub line is oddly more subdued than the original, which is kinda rare.
Extra tidbit, but he says this in his first appearance in Now That's Flower Power! too when Haruka agrees to battle him over the Bluk Berries.
AG181: Thinning the Hoard! (ハルカVSハーリー！ダブルバトルでステージ・オン！！)
English:
Harley: The poor little loser girl got her teeny feelings all hurt.
Japanese:
Harley「まあ、かもちゃんったらあんなに動揺しちゃって」
(My my, Kamo-chan's so shaken up)
Harley says this right after The Fight™. He orchestrates this altercation and his original line places emphasis on how much it affected her—an emphasis that sounds suspiciously like a line he's said before at a certain other Grand Festival (which got changed into the boyfriend line):
Harley「ふん。まさかシュウ君がこんなにあんたのこと気にしてたなんてね」
(Hmph. To think Shuu-kun would care/concern himself this much with you)
This was also in the other post, but I do think it's better than the boyfriend line even if it's not as funny. A decent chunk of Harley's commentary seems to exist to call attention to certain aspects of their relationship; these two lines are no different.
Side note, but if you have to watch any episodes of AG subbed/in Japanese, the Kanto GF arc is a good choice. The dub...certainly does a thing with some key lines.
AG187: The Unbeatable Lightness of Seeing! (ハルカVSシュウ！ライバルよ永遠に)
English:
May: You really gave me a shock back there. See, I was just thinking about you when all of a sudden, there you were.
Drew: Were they good thoughts?
May: Uh, c'mon! Of course they were!
Japanese:
Haruka「さっきはびっくりしたわ。シュウのこと考えてたらいきなり目の前に現れるんだもん」
(That was a surprise. I was thinking about you and suddenly, there you were)
Shuu「考えてた？」
(Thinking [about me]?)
Haruka「あ…いや、そういう意味じゃないの！」
(Ah, no, I didn't mean like that!)
Remember that exchange with Wakana in Spontaneous Combusken? Wakana asks her dou omotteru ("what/how do you think of—?) with romantic implications and Haruka answers at face value. Shuu asks her kangaeteta ("thinking?") with no implications and her immediate reaction is to not take it at face value.
This bit of dialogue provides continuity for the events of Spontaneous Combusken and is basically the only time Haruka reacts this way without some third party needling her. The dub change turns it into a funny but mostly forgettable interaction.
English:
Harley: How touching. It's dangerous~ Two kids alone like this.
May: Ah, c'mon! We were just talking! Really!
Japanese:
Harley「お二人さん！何やってんのよ、怪しいわね」
(Hey, you two! What's going on here? How suspicious)
Haruka「そんな！私たち別に…その…」
(No way! We're not really...um...)
I don't have much to say about this one—you can watch the scene yourself to hear the difference. If May had stuttered or sounded hesitant in the dub line, it'd be more accurate to the original.
A number of lines got omitted for one reason or another and I avoided cross-referencing tons of other episodes for some semblance of brevity, but if you made it this far, I appreciate your time
if this guy can accidentally dive into watching his absent father experience an unknown fate in a burning building surrounded by children dying fiery deaths he can accidentally dive a couple of other ways too
2087
vaporwave
pixelskylines
blakekathryn
ellievsbear
kaledo-art
discoholicmusic
kianamaiart
tangentwithtanner
