Friend in a FB movie group shared the following with the caption, “Fucking. Brilliant.”
Now, I disagree that this is a story worthy of our time & attention because I find the entire premise behind it repulsive, and expressed those specifics at least twice. At no point did I presume to challenge anyone else’s opinion on that or otherwise attempt changing their opinion as such. I made my own comment expressing my own feelings with something of an explanation based on the evidence given by the narrative for anyone curious as to why I felt this way. Twice, attempts were made to “challenge” that opinion and argue for how/why snape remains, in their minds, among the more “compelling” or “nuanced” characters in that setting, making his story, albeit problematic, worth further examination.
Again, neither argument nor discussion am I interested in entertaining.
The first attempt, by another friend whom frequently positions his responses in my regard on some form of misinterpretation or misunderstanding of what I express, was easy to address, in clarifying for him my position and what I said and there is, in fact, no disagreement, which he then concedes and moves on. A 3rd party even came in and commented on our having provided an interesting thread examining the character.
The second attempt was far-less considered and predicated on offering me “insight” to the character of snape’s role/significance in the story with the presumption I mustn’t already be aware, otherwise I’d find interest in the premise.
In the end, given his lacking capacity & willingness to comprehend my position, let alone actually address any of the objective points I offered, I’m accused of “taking it personally” and “insulting” him. Below is the exchange. Let us observe and determine—who’s statements were actually dismissive and insulting, and is the issue that I’m taking it personally or too seriously (ignoring the fact he came in with the intention of “persuading” a change in a personal opinion without addressing the merits behind said opinion), or that his final response is ultimately predictable, in that I’ve seen this rhetorical strategy hundreds of times before, where the other party, instead of otherwise acknowledging they have zero, reputable argument, coming in inadequately armed or otherwise prepared or willing to pursue any formative discussion and thus moving on, decides to suggest the problem is solely with me and my having somehow misunderstood either what he meant to say or his intentions?
So here was my initial comment on the subject—
The whole Snape scenario is absurdly romanticized.
The dude was unquestionably, persistently abusive.
Also, he devoted his young adulthood to fascism because he got pissed that the object of his infatuation rejected him, mind you, AFTER calling her a eugenicist/genocidal slur, and because she would then wind up hooking up with his childhood harasser.
He ONLY “switched sides”, ONLY saw a problem with what was going on, when her life was threatened.
He didn’t even give a shit about Harry. Everything he did “for” Harry he did begrudgingly, and was done at Voldemort’s expense as a means of retribution and revenge for Lily’s death—not because it was the moral thing to do.
Adam Driver rocks. Give him all the roles.
Rowling played that one wrong. That pseudo-wannabe-“redemption” reveal, and the “ooh, he has the same patronus as Lily *swoon*” is just completely disgusting, playing into the entire (usually misogynistic) heteronormative history of treating women like objects that men deserve to possess by no other virtue than whatever “strong” affections they happen to have, which usually wind up being overly romanticized when said “affections” and appreciation come from “afar,” go unsaid, or otherwise go unnoticed by said objec—I’m sorry, woman.
Here’s the second, sorry-ass “rebuttal”: Snape isn’t the most morally upstanding or “good” character in the HP world, but he is the best and most nuanced character. That doesn’t mean that he necessarily deserves his own movie, but I am WAY more likely to see that than a prequel on any other character. Especially with Driver - I’m all about that life.
Me: sorry man, can’t get behind the assessment that “the most” interesting character in any literary context (let alone this series) is the one reinforcing and embodying several, troubling cultural, and I’ll be generous and say “maladies”, that not once within that narrative go examined or explored and are hand-waved away with the bullshit third-act reveal that everything abusive and violent he did is somehow mitigated by his actually-inherently-selfish motives which are then characterized as “love” simply because his patronus takes the same form as the woman with whom he was obsessed.
No thanks. Count me the-fuck out
Just to provide a counter-example:
Even Avengers Infinity War & Endgame openly challenged and examined Thanos’s notion of “love” for Gamora by focusing the first act on his relationship with Gamora and then juxtaposing that with Nebula in the second, culminating in the sisters’ journey together to try and provide Nebula with some measure of reconciliation and redemption for her prior, utter devotion to Thanos and her hatred/self-loathing/and misguided envy at Gamora for having abandoned her with their mutual abuser.
The movie doesn’t explicitly make this statement, but it is, at the very least, clear within the text of the narrative for anyone to interpret on their own without having their hand held (or worse yet, retroactively retconned by the storyteller[s] as Rowling has shown herself prone to do).
Thanos in that sense is a thoroughly unlikeable character in that regard, in what he did to those two girls. And even in clearly giving us his perspective in that he considers his affections for Gamora as “love”, the rest of that story gives us plenty of narrative context for the actions and developments of the characters to openly challenge that assessment.
Rowling doesn’t do any of that to any degree, and she had 7 books to do it.
(and if there’s any confusion or argument about what Rowling’s narrative intends us to think or feel about snape and his fate in terms of making any judgment in that regard, the protagonist literally names his own child after him)
So again. No thanks. You can miss me with that
Him: So flawed characters can’t be good characters? I also never said he was the greatest character ever - he’s just the best within the HP universe. Which…again…does not give license to make a movie upon that ‘virtue’ alone. But if they did, at least it would be an interesting story with an interesting actor, if this Driver premise was to come to fruition.
Me: “Flawed characters can’t be good characters”
Yeah. That is exactly what I said…
I’ll allow you an opportunity to read, again, my comments again, as well as my counter-example, and further, my response to Brandon, above, and maybe, give it another try.
Because you really should.
The issue for me isn’t his being “flawed.”
It is 1) the specific manner of that “flaw,” 2) that fiction doesn’t exist in a vacuum (a context with which I’ve been quite specific in outlining why I don’t give a shit for this premise), and 3) as stated previously, this isn’t an argument or something up for debate.
I was only sharing my personal feelings, which again, I even expressed on at least two occasions I have no intention or presumptions to convince or otherwise force or expect anyone else to change their feelings to align with mine.
You can even like the character.
I disagree with you, and offered specific observations with which you were welcome to actually examine or discuss.
Instead you decided to offer a mischaracterized, reductive summation of my observation… 🤔
I know I write long comments sometimes, so this time, I broke it up and maybe that’ll help, but if that’s what you gleaned from anything I’ve said, then you weren’t really reading, and I would have no other recourse but to wonder at your capacity for basic literary interpretation in the first place.
If you’re willing to make some attempt at challenging or otherwise calling out anything I have to say, then *read* everything I had to say.
I put in the time to write it, you can at least do me the simple courtesy of reading.
It costs $0 to say nothing, otherwise
Him: Wow, man…you don’t have to get personal about it. Not sure what you’re trying to gain by insulting me. But I give even fewer fucks now than I did to begin with, so have a nice day.
Anyway, entirely predictable.
