hii!! I wanted to start off by saying I love your art, it's so pretty. anyways, my questions are:
If so the when?
also how do you imagine Diomedes' second wife, Euippe? We don't really know anything about her so I'm just curious
how I imagine Euippe ;) she's absolutely a guiding figure for him, this man barely knew how to be a human being in Greece, so a new land entirely? chaos!
Why turnus and Euippe might be siblings, making Diomedes and Turnus brothers in law
This sounds so random, BUT BEAR WITH ME, I PROMISE THIS MAKES SOME SENSE. And strap in its gonna be a long one
And this is not because their father have the same name. it would be stupid to assume that, but I did find some claims that make it rather plausible
Firstly, who is euippe? Euippe is the daughter of daunus of Apulia. She married Diomedes after he helped them fight off the Messapians in Italy. They had two kids together, Diomedes and Amphinomus, and lived a pretty peaceful life from what we know. Her mother is currently unknown, I found no sources citing her or alluding to her.
Turnus is the son daunus of rutuli and the nymph Venilia he asks for diomedes's help in the aeneid to help fight off aeneas, which he refuses to do so.
Apulia and the land of the Rutuli are geographically speaking, distinct regions. Apulia lies in southeastern Italy, while the Rutuli occupied Latium in central western Italy. On the surface, they are entirely separate.
However, as noted by T. P. Wiseman in The Myths of Early Rome (2004), Virgil frequently blends regional Italic traditions, merging different local myths into a single narrative framework. This tendency complicates any strict geographical reading of the Aeneid.
This becomes particularly significant when considering Ardea, the center of the Rutulian people, which some traditions associate with Daunian origins. This introduces ambiguity not only in mythological lineage but also in how ancient populations were geographically understood.
Further evidence comes from the Periplus of Pseudo-Scylax, attributed to Pseudo-Scylax (mid-4th century BC), which describes Mediterranean coastal populations. Historians have used this text to argue that Daunian groups were present beyond Apulia, extending into parts of central Italy, including Latium and Campania during the Iron Age.
Archaeological findings reinforce this perspective. Daunian geometric pottery dating to the 7th and 6th centuries BC has been discovered in Campania and Latium, suggesting either migration, cultural diffusion, or a broader Daunian presence than traditionally assumed.
Additionally, the Apulian king Daunus ruled over the Daunians, whose territory bordered that of the Messapians. In the Aeneid, Virgil includes a Rutulian ally named Messapus, whose name closely resembles that of the Messapians, potentially reflecting another instance of regional blending.
Finally, some ancient traditions place the Daunians within Latium itself. Taken together, this evidence suggests that Virgil’s portrayal of Daunus as the father of Turnus may intentionally conflate different traditions. Rather than representing two entirely separate figures, the Daunus of Apulia and the Daunus associated with the Rutuli may have been understood by Virgil as one and the same, especially given his emphasis on Turnus’s mixed heritage.
Now this is...messy, to say the least. Turnus's family tree is incredibly messy because we have no clear indication of *which* daunus we are talking about, is je an actual historical figure or a king made up by virgil so he can capitalize on his prior known past? But first time answer this question who even is daunus?
On paper Daunus is:
an Illyrian
who migrated into Apulia (southern Italy)
and gave his name to the region, Daunia!
He’s not originally Latin, not from Turnus’ homeland.
Turnus is said to be the son of Daunus, BUT that doesn’t really match the “normal” version of who Daunus is. Virgil suddenly presents Daunus as the father of Turnus, tied to Ardea when (italian) daunus has seemingly been universally agreed upon to be the king of the daunians and of Apulia.
"The Rutulian connection is puzzling. " Patris anti-quam Dauni defertur ad urbem" can hardly mean anything except " ad Ardeam " as Servius says on this line (x, 688), but this transplanting of Daunus seems exclusively Vergilian. Many have struggled with the genealogy of Turnus and tried to recon- cile its inconsistencies by establishing the exact relationship of Daunus, Pilumnus, and Danae"
Holland, Louise Adams. “Place Names and Heroes in the Aeneid.” The American Journal of Philology, Vol. 56, No. 3 (1935).
"This sensible commentary has had little effect. Rehm 14 takes it that the name Daunian which we know in northern Apulia once belonged also to a people of the Rutulian district who later disappeared....This by no means proves that the districts to which she (cassandra) refers are adjacent. "@
Holland, Louise Adams. “Place Names and Heroes in the Aeneid.” The American Journal of Philology, Vol. 56, No. 3 (1935).
From what we are getting at, Virgil is not being consistent with lineage, The text suggests Virgil may have "transplanted" Daunus to the west coast for his own poetic purposes which seems consistent so far with how virgil has handled prior myths in the story.
Daunus is clearly tied to Apulia But Virgil places him in Rutulian/Ardean context ->Scholars themselves call this “puzzling” and unresolved, leading to attempts to separate or systematize it don’t hold up Therefore:
The idea that these are two completely distinct figures is not stable
author brings up Rehm’s theory (that there was a disappearing tribe of Rutulian Daunians) but immediately undercuts it by saying the evidence from Lycophron "by no means proves" the locations were adjacent. The author brings up Rehm’s theory (that there was a disappearing tribe of Rutulian Daunians) but immediately undercuts it by saying the evidence from Lycophron "by no means proves" the locations were adjacent.
This suggests that Virgil isn't trying to be a historian or a geographer he is kinda just being a poet. He takes Daunus (a legendary figure with high "prestige") and moves him to Ardea to give Turnus a more impressive, ancient pedigree.
SO within this framework, Euippe—identified as a daughter of Daunus—can be understood as part of the same Daunian mythic lineage complex, potentially representing a parallel familial branch rather than a strictly separate genealogical line from Turnus. Or in other words, siblings!
This would also make turnus turning (no pun intended) to Diomedes for help to fight off aeneas a lot more cohesive, because why turnus would put himself through a lot of trouble to go ALL THE WAY TO APULIA simply to ask a specific well known warrior for help in his war? UNLESS HES ASKING HIS BROTHER IN LAW
If we consider that in the aeneid the two locations were merged or at least blurred + the fact that Diomedes is Turnus's brother in law suddenly this makes a whole lot of sense
Therefore, Euippe, being his sister, actually makes too much sense and I will not be taking criticism./j
On a serious note, I hope this was comprehensive in some way! I had so much gun typing this down, and please forgive me for any typos or grammar mistakes. 🩷
I’m definitely drawing a Diomedes x Aeneas Prisoner AU lol. I’ve seen a few fics floating around but haven't seen any fanart yet? It’s literally too good to pass up
I’m definitely drawing a Diomedes x Aeneas Prisoner AU lol. I’ve seen a few fics floating around but haven't seen any fanart yet? It’s literally too good to pass up
Anti-intellectualism and media illiteracy is sooooo on the rise you guys :DDDD
Now a quick comparison between The Odyssey (2026) and Troy (2004)
Do i even need to say which ones were historically inaccurate and STILL managed to make the outfits look aesthetically pleasing, worn-in, and not make Agamemnon batman?
Troy's Agamemnon didn't wear this now, did he?
Yet he manages to sport an armor that doesn't look so.... Plastic and new and... Batmanish (I'm beating this dead horse DOWN you can't stop me). It feels lived-in (atleast to me).
Anyone whose rebuttal to the mid ass fashion design of The Odyssey is "there's a CYCLOPS in there" or "It's a myth anyway", I know everything I need to know about you.
Also Nolan himself (reportedly) said it's gonna be the most historically accurate adaptation and yet look at what we're dealing with here.
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