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Sheila Norgate, Raven with Issues

"no one can make you feel a certain way without your consent" isn't the empowering statement that it posits itself as. there is a point to it, a valid one, but it's all jumbled up.

no one can decide who you are. no one can decide what your reality is. no one can decide specifically how you feel about something. these can all be true. while still acknowledging that it is, in fact, possible to make someone feel something.

you can make someone feel sad. you can make someone feel pain. you can make someone feel scared. you can make someone tired. and i don't mean people have this mystical power over you that you'll never be able to fight against.

i mean that what we say, and what we do, does have an effect on people. if you slap someone in the face, you made them feel pain. we know slapping someone hurts. sure, you didn't literally make their neurons fire and create the sensation of pain, but that's what bodies automatically do when struck (unless there's neurological damage, and that's a disability. one i have!).

the same goes for emotional pains. if you yell and scream at someone, there's a good chance that'll make them afraid. or angry. that's a normal response to threatening behavior. completely expected, and sometimes, people ellict that response on purpose. because they're choosing to hurt someone.

you don't tell an abuse survivor "no one can make you feel inferior without your consent!" and you certainly don't tell them their abuser "can't make you feel any certain way." that is abso-fucking-lutely a thing. people do it to other people all the time. we call that interpersonal violence.

toxic positivity is not therapy, it's gaslighting and abuse. 99% of therapists i've encountered have no fucking business being therapists, i swear to god. and then i have to go online and see the same pop psych shit spouted by people who either don't know what they're talking about, or don't realize they're being groomed into victim-blaming themselves and subsequently others.

to anyone in the latter case, my friend, you don't have to agree with them. you were right to feel hurt. that was a natural response to abuse. anyone who tells you otherwise isn't worth shit. other survivors are not your enemy in this situation, i promise.

landsccape

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cryptotheism

Good criticism is not mean, it is accurate. A desire to humiliate will find petty and shallow flaws. A desire to understand will find deep and structural flaws. The latter frankly hurt more, but reaching them demands time, erudition, and diligence on part of the critic.

creekfiend

btw, if you base whether or not you have been Wronged in a situation on how bad you feel? that's bad. hurting other people feels REALLY BAD. FREQUENTLY. you feeling REALLY BAD does not = other people have mistreated you terribly.

experiencing consequences for legitimately bad behavior often feels absolutely terrible. even worse than being punished for something you didn't do, in my experience! if you allow your emotions to dictate whether you think you have been mistreated, you're going to treat the people YOU mistreat like they have harmed you unforgivably.

this is the logic that leads to DARVO. it is imperative to recognize the paths that lead to this behavior. your feelings are real and hard and they're also not telling the truth about every situation. they don't dictate reality.

solarbiomechanist

The AMOUNT of therapy I have been to that never had a satisfying explanation for the behavioral consistency of DARVO across multiple culturally distinct individuals-

it's an empathetic injury, that's why it's *so* fast, so severe, and the "reasoning" can change so much even when the same story is told again; it's not pre-planned, there's no mastermind string-pulling or whatever, it's "Ah fuck, why do I feel so bad, it can't be my fault, so I need to explain why it is your fault".

I wish I could tell past me this. It would have shattered a lot of the illusions of control built into my environment if I had been able to see how many of the lies were just made up on the literal spot and that the people telling them were not expecting their actions to have consequences.

Many thanks, I will be taking this information with me both in terms of "How to not hurt others like I was hurt" and in terms of continuing my knowledge project of "Everyone is a person with their own internal motivations and reasoning"

creekfiend

I really do think that the narrative about ppl who DARVO being intentionally evil mastermind manipulators has fucked with our ability to understand when we are hurting others. hurting people you care about feels bad. being TOLD you have hurt someone you care about feels bad, even if you intellectually knew it. people without skills to tolerate distress experience feeling bad as an Attack and an Emergency which triggers Defense Mode. people can be VERY manipulative and just be acting in blind panic -- they're unthinkingly doing what works! none of this makes it okay! at all! but it's a version of something that we all have an impulse towards, I think, just totally unexamined and Writ Large/taken to the furthest possible level. at its core abusive behavior is about not being able to tolerate or manage your own emotions and believing that people besides you are ultimately responsible for this, I think. it's emotional fragility and usually a lifetime of practicing a specific kind of lashing out in order to get some sort of relief from the Big Bad Feelings. like.

the biggest thing I've learned about people who get into abusive and manipulative behavior patterns is that something can be absolutely terrible and indefensible and also, at its core, DEEPLY pathetic.

we don't want to see people who do that kind of harm as pathetic because there's this feeling that that somehow excuses their behavior. it doesn't. a lot of the time its behavior that they saw Work for people with power over them when they were children, and now they think it's the only behavior that Works when interacting with people over whom they have power. because it connects back to early developmental learning re: interpersonal interactions, this also often explains why people approach these situations like they're the victim -- it's a child headspace, it's a path that was originally trodden during childhood, and childhood is a state defined by a lack of autonomy. which I think also acts as a way to insulate people from the need to consider other people's experiences and feelings -- when you're a kid it's absolutely vital to defensively hyperrocus on your own experience because nobody else will do that for you. no one does that for children, generally. and so, many people learn that prioritizing their feelings = dismissing other people's. anyway I'm rambling now and none of this is like. I don't have citations for it, lol, but this is the best way I have found to conceptualize these dynamics in Learning terms. because I truly do think that so many things in life are about Learning, and how we are initially taught that the world works.

I also think that in general we overestimate how much we understand our own motivations for our behavior; generally people act first, based on emotions, and then come up with intellectual explanations for their decisions after the fact. I think that's important to keep in mind and it's something that's helped me understand people a LOT better.

sealsandlacenet

all of the emotions anyone can ever feel ever

wifegideonnav

“bits to use in everyday conversations”

lamignonette

expressions-of-nature

Dolgiye Mountains, Russia by Arseny Kashkarov

anotherdayinbliss

Kilian Eng (b. 1982), A Dream of the Reef

apocrital

Are we ready for another round of freaks

I always say this lovingly, of course

Idolothrips spectrum (I couldn't find much information on these so I'm not sure whether that spectrum refers to them being variable but none of the others seem to look as strange as this one. Not sure if there's something else going on there) and lepidopsocid