Currently rewatching Clone Wars, and as a Maul fan, it's kind of torture to watch Maul vs Prominent Character fight scenes, because we all KNOW he's an incredible fighter. Maybe one of the best. But he loses SO MANY fights, or the fights just fizzle out, because he insists on beefing with people who have impenetrable movie canon plot armor.
finished the silmarillion last night and felt so, like, heartbroken and hollow?? everything that happened; the nirnaeth arnoediad, the kinslayings, the death of finrod in aid of beren, túrin’s entire plight, the fall of doriath and gondolin, the war of wrath, ET CETERA, all for the silmarils to be FINALLY regained by maedhros and maglor, who both pretty much instantly forsook them, and either died or became a husk of an elf. it all just, fizzled out so anticlimactically, and my heart hurts so deeply for all who were lost or scarred along the way, especially those who wanted nothing to do with the silmarils in the first place. because it rly just, ended
I really like exploring Maul's feelings towards Dathomir and how he feels about his identity as a night brother. Sidious pretty much beat the belief of Dathomir and its culture being savages in him from an early age and he never really connected to it so it's a really interesting topic to talk about.
After the War of Wrath, Maglor cast the Silmaril into the sea and left his people behind. He wandered alone along the shores of the world, accompanied only by the tides, the birds, and his unending songs of regret.
Sorry I started sobbing uncontrollably when you expressed the slightest concern for my lack of human connection, and casually mentioned you think I deserve better than a life of isolation and loneliness. Super weird. Not sure what was up with that lol. You still think I’m cool and mysterious and sexy, right?
Guess which one I drew first LOL. It's actually so fun drawing him, especially in a style I don't usually use. His eyes probably still need a little fixing... but honestly? I'm satisfied for now LMAO
"The Phantom Troupe weren't responsible for the Kurta Clan massacre, they aren't that evil/it would be OOC of them to torture or kill kids"
Uhh... you sure about that, chief? 🤨
(Spoilers for the anime and manga below. Read at your own discretion)
He's saying this to a 12 year old
Chrollo knocks out and steals the ability of a 17-18 year old, which more than likely results in her death later on. Chrollo knows that her father only had his position in the Mafia due to Neon's ability, and (being that he isn't a fool by any stretch of the imagination) would also be aware of what the loss of her powers would entail for her and her father. Yes I know Neon was an awful person but that doesn't negate the fact that she was also still (or at least barely more than) a child who Chrollo didn't hesitate to manipulate and ruin the life of
Machi and Chrollo both state their willingness to murder two 12 year olds, if necessary.
Phinks tries to pull one over on Kurapika to gain license to torture abovementioned 12 year olds (do y'all see that devious grin? The man is taking sadistic glee in potentially getting to badly injure literal kids)
Franklin, Uvogin and Shalnark straight up murder a man in order to steal his beer and use his computer
Uvo straight up says he doesn't gaf about the people he's killed, and that he felt nothing when murdering them.
...is what Uvogin enjoys most of all about killing
Chrollo kills a man in maybe one of the most disturbing ways seen in any piece of media (and prior to the scene above observes what remains of the poor man with a serene little smile, wholly unaffected by his mental collapse and suffering). And just a reminder – he actively wanted this insane ability, going through the trouble of stealing it after having seen it in action.
The requiem shows just how far the Troupe are willing to go to avenge one of their own. Mass murder is not out of the question at all and the fact that they are so efficient at it (they murder like, what, 2000 people in less than a night?) points to this being far from their first time in the mass slaughter rodeo.
This panel reveals how Shalnark views people outside of his friends and home – as objects. Puppets. A view also shared by at least one Meteor City elder and by Chrollo, and very likely most residents in Meteor City.
Chrollo explicitly has to tell his troupe not to touch the ambulance Neon is in – not out of the kindness of his heart, mind you, but to preserve Neon's ability in his book. But to return to Chrollo's instruction, the very fact that he has to issue it in the first place points to the Troupe not being above obstructing or damaging ambulances
Pakunoda cruelly torments Squala by bringing up his girlfriend in a sinister manner. There truly is no need for her to do this at all since she's already extracted all the information she requires out of Squala. This is just pure sadism on her part, and it leads to Squala losing his cool and his life.
Chrollo is a massive asshole to Kurapika the entire car ride. Reminder that Kurapika is a young man whose entire clan got brutally slaughtered and who's now desperately wanting answers about it. Chrollo shows 0 remorse, 0 compassion, and gives 0 fucks overall. He gives Kurapika nothing, but merely taunts and condescends him. Which no matter how you spin it is very evil. Especially considering that Chrollo for sure does understand what Kurapika is feeling and is suffering (Chrollo knows better than most what it means to lose a loved one in a horrific manner and to be consumed by vengeance)
Phinks and Feitan kill two men just to steal a game and console
I really don't think there's anything I need to add to this one dhdjfj. The point I'm making should be crystal clear
Kortopi and Shalnark torture a Greed Island player to steal his cards. It's only explicitly shown in the 1999 anime, but in the manga Shalnark says "Remember what that player we forced to tell us said we get for clearing the game?" It's not terribly hard to figure out what exactly "forced" entails when coming from a member of the Phantom Troupe...
Last but not least, here's Chrollo chucking live audience members at Hisoka like baseballs with the most blank expression possible. He truly does not give a flying fuck about human lives, but merely views them as tools for him to use as he sees fit.
So in summary – they really are that evil and it really wouldn't be out of character for them to torture kids
True, there is a B side to the massacre. There are still details and context missing. Like wtf was up with that note, for instance? And what was Sheila of all people doing all the way out there just weeks prior? Etc.
Is it possible the PT weren't the culprits, or at least not fully responsible? Anything is possible with Togashi as the author. And I have no doubt he'd provide a complex and reasonable explanation, if so (though it would contradict scenes in Yorknew and raise questions about choices the PT made there, not to mention cheapen the story and make everyone involved seem pretty dumb. So I sincerely doubt he'd go down this route). But I don't think that the argument some fans put forth that the PT weren't behind the massacre because "they wouldn't kill or torture kids" hold water
Because yes. Yes they absolutely would do that. Every single member would if Chrollo (their favorite guy in the whole wide world) ordered them to as part of a job or mission.
On account of the fact that they are all fucked up. And according to Nobunaga, they used to be even worse than what we've seen on page. He even compares them to the Heil-Ly. And speaking of the Heil-Ly, it is notable that Nobu and co are so quickly able to understand their mindset of sacrificing innocents for their own gain – because the Troupe also share that thought pattern.
They're not tragically misunderstood, and are themselves well aware that they are villains to most people. That's what they pledged themselves to be all those years ago – villains to the world, protectors to Meteor City kids. It was in service of that resolve (and of vengeance) that Franklin cut off the tips of his fingers to enhance his Nen, and that Pakunoda vowed never to touch the person she most cherishes (the others presumably did similarly drastic things, hence why they're all crazy powerful). Every single member is ready and willing to die to avenge Sarasa and for their stated lifelong mission to protect Meteor City.
They're 100% committed to this.
And it was also in service of revenge that Chrollo basically created (or at least pioneered) the dark web – where he and the Troupe not only likely scoured through hundreds upon hundreds (if not thousands) of snuff tapes to find Sarasa's killers (which 200% desensitized all of them even further), but simultaneously gave sick and twisted individuals a safe haven, an incentive to share and to revel in depravities. People like Tserriednich are active there and were probably inspired by the videos and photos that are uploaded. And the thing is that the Troupe don't care about the suffering perpetrated by those predators against non-MC adults or children, nor the responsibility they hold in facilitating all of this. The only things that ever mattered to them was 1) catching Sarasa's killers and 2) ensuring nothing like what happened to her ever happens to another METEOR CITY child. Their vendetta and Meteor City are the sole things that concern Chrollo and the Troupe – others being victimized whether as a direct result of his/the Troupe's actions or not, do not. Or at least, nothing ever shown in the story implies otherwise.
Tl;dr the Troupe are extremely bad people who would absolutely not be above committing the Kurta massacre. Their actions and dialogue show this plainly enough, not to mention that Yorknew would make very little sense if the Troupe weren't the ones responsible. Everything points to them being guilty, and the story would gain nothing by them being innocent.
I'm gonna add (a lot) more to this because I like yapping about the characters I obsess over and also have no self restraint
Look I LOVE the Phantom Troupe, but I will always acknowledge that they can and have and will commit horrific acts. These guys aren't regular people with normal upbringings or experiences. This applies to Chrollo especially, who seems to have been groomed by the city elders from a very young age, and who bears the biggest trauma from Sarasa's death (misplaced guilt + knowing what the notes said + elected leadership role).
This is not me trying to take away his culpability at all btw because at the end of the day he made his own choices and he is fully responsible for those choices. But these are still factors that shouldn't be ignored when attempting to analyze him, imo.
Anyway, back to the collective–
The Spiders don't give a shit about anyone not in their troupe or not from Meteor City, not even appearing to view those outside either category as belonging to the same species as themselves.
And this mentality makes sense when you consider how the world at large dehumanize Meteor City residents, at best equating them to the piles of garbage that characterize the place, at worst to prey to hunt, rape and kill for their own amusement.
Meteor City children being trafficked or murdered by outsiders in the hundreds every year without ANY reprecussions from the law was a reality of life for the PT growing up. The PT were exposed early on to senseless depraved cruelty at the hands of non-citizens, and to hopelessness – to how life can be snuffed out in a moment, gone forever at the whim of someone that had nothing to do with them. Their little sister was tortured, dismembered and had her remains strung up in a garbage bag for them to find, notes with presumably graphic and taunting details about what was done to her nailed both beside her and onto her. Sarasa – a little ball of sunshine who stood up for Chrollo and who bridged the gap between clashing Troupe members – sadistically butchered and discarded like so much trash by those that had nothing to do with her, while she was invaluable as an individual as well as to her friends.
No justice would be served by the system for any of the atrocities, because Meteor City citizens were not seen as human beings. Nor did the city elders take any meaningful steps to protect the children (they don't seem to do much of actual use in the present either
Everything about them is shady af. Like how opulent their surroundings are while the rest of the populace lives in little huts among literal mounds of garbage).
As a result the PT took matters into their own hands, their Meteor City bred "us vs them" mentality against the rest of the world cemented – if it's for the safety and benefit of the Spider and/or their home, they'll do terrible things against outsiders without thinking twice about it. Their ideology can essentially be summed up as "isolationalist tribalism". They truly cherish each other and make a point to respect and honor dead loved ones, but don't blink at the desecration of other people.
Examples of the way the Troupe care for their own dead.
The Troupe are simply too affected by their worldview and too desensitized by their experiences and trauma to have compassion for outsiders. Of course they don't (with some exceptions dhdjfj) go around killing willy nilly but if a job or vengeance or necessity requires it, they will kill and they will torture. And as has been shown on page, not even children are off limits (Killua and Gon would have been dead or gravely injured before the end of the Yorknew Arc if not for a coin flip, and then after that if not for the Troupe's care for Chrollo. And children have most definitely been grievously harmed by the creation of the Dark Web, and by the PTs acts of murder and terrorism).
Not only have the Troupe been desensitized in their quest for vengeance though, but they've essentially turned into the very people they despised by victimizing people that have nothing to do with them.
And that's the tragedy and (I believe) the cautionary tale of their story. He who fights monsters and all that. They stared into the abyss and the abyss stared back.
I'm pointing this out because I want to make clear I'm not trying to justify or defend their actions – there's never a justification for things like genocide, obviously. The fact that there is an explanation behind their mentality and worldview does not excuse nor make the Troupe any less horrible individuals. But it does make them more engaging and realized as characters, and also provides an explanation as to how they were capable of such vile acts like the Kurta massacre.
The Spiders are not a band of Robin Hoods looking out for the poor and downtrodden in the world. They do steal riches and they do engage in philantrophy, but said philantrophy is almost guaranteed to be for Meteor City exclusively (as we see in the Chimera Ant arc for instance). As for the treasures they steal for whatever reason, it doesn't matter where they reside – whether that be in an underground auction run by the mafia or in a hidden village in the Lukso Province – they'll take them regardless and they'll do it using whatever means necessary.
They just do not gaf about anyone or anything but themselves and their home. The world never gave a crap about Meteor City residents' suffering. It either dehumanized them, treated them as commodities, or used them for a bit of "fun" to then be desecrated and discarded like trash. So in return, the Troupe give no shits about the world's suffering. That's the reason why they can do the things they do and go on with their lives like nothing.
That's why, for as cool and compelling and even human as they are written to be, they almost certainly committed the Kurta Massacre, and then just went about their lives like it was a regular Tuesday (Uvo says the Kurtas were strong, yes, but notably it takes a minute for him to recall who they were when Kurapika confronts him. Overall the event does not appear to have left meaningful impressions on any of them, judging by the way the other members talk about it. For Kurapika it was a life altering event that wrecked and shaped everything. For the PT? Nothing. Just a job/mission in all likelihood, over and done with).
I think the reason why some fans have issues acknowledging PT's atrocities or try to lessen their culpability boils down to either not wanting to accept that their favorite characters are genuinely evil people, or they're tripped over by the Troupe's equally genuine capacity for love and care and camraderie toward each other. Because how can people who value their friendship and bonds, who do acts of philanthropy and who grieve over the deaths of their family members, also be capable of genociding an entire clan?
To that question I'd answer that I think that that's kind of the whole point of their characters? The fact that they are brutal mass murderers who are also charming and devoted childhood friends who genuinely love each other. In spite of their deeds they're as capable of feeling care as anyone else but (as Gon calls them out on) they're very hypocritical and selective about it.
I've already mentioned the "us vs them" mentality and their trauma and desensitization, but they're also intentionally written to be complex and multifaceted characters, not one note psychos. Togashi is showing that even the most heinous individuals can have some form of humanity. People often aren't as purely black or white as we'd wish, and when faced with that fact it will stir rather uncomfortable and challenging feelings and dilemmas inside us (this is one of the plot points in Yorknew, where both Gon and Kurapika have to grapple with this discovery, though in different ways).
For me one of the main reasons the Troupe work so wonderfully as antagonists and as characters is that they are undeniably horrific, but their personalities don't revolve around sitting around their lair being evil and twirling their mustaches. They've depth outside of being villainous/antagonistic, with their own quirks and hobbies, and are allowed by Togashi to have comedic, tragic, sometimes even sympathetic, moments. They squabble, they tease, they hold armwrestling tournaments, they play go fish, they drink and share the spoils of victory together. They act like a bickering but devoted (if dysfunctional) family. They love and they grieve. In Yorknew and Succession they're often our POV characters. Hell, they're basically protagonists in their own right in those arcs. They get a three chapter backstory exploring their upbringing and their collective trauma.
In summary they're allowed to be more than just brutal killers or one dimensional antagonists. They're allowed to be human.
I could add fifty paragraphs more but to wrap up this long clusterfuck of a post the Phantom Troupe are great characters and it's not weird nor morally wrong to love them, in spite of the fact that they are shit people that have done irredeemable things that you really can't defend or try to justify. They're a tragic and traumatized group with deep bonds and genuine human feelings and moments, sure, but they are also mass murderers whose compassion begins and ends with themselves and Meteor City.
If you love the Troupe, then please do accept and embrace their shittiness as well! To take away from that aspect of their characters would be to strip them of what makes them so compelling.
There's no need to feel shame for liking morally bad fictional characters or to try to lessen their guilt in order to justify it. They're fictional. They haven't harmed anyone that's real. So just enjoy them for what they are (or hate them for what they are. That's fine and understandable too lol)
(I also answer two questions related to Chrollo by another person further down!)
Hullo ^^
We unfortunately don't get a whole lot of certain info re: the extent of the church's role in caring for the MC kids.
What we do know is:
That they do provide a place of learning (there is no mention anywhere of schools) so presumably this is the one place for children to go to to learn how to read and write etc. That's likely a huge part of the reason why Chrollo and Paku are so fond of going there; because they value learning and are naturally very bright.
It's important to note though that it seems to be entirely up to the kids whether to attend or no, and how far they wish to take their education.
The church probably helps them with learning to read and spell (all PT members are literate in their national language), but beyond that they're probably left to further their knowledge on their own.
Chrollo for instance seems to mostly self educate himself considering he's been the only one we know of that has actually learnt Gelman and Jannan, and that on his own from watching tapes. The other kids for the most part stay away from the church to avoid being lectured.
They don't stay away when there are congregations, however. This may in some part have to do with the food that is handed out at them, but also because this is one of the rare instances were the kids seem to actually have obligations, since they are assigned to "snack duty" (handing out food to the others).
They are also assigned with garbage sorting duty, though whether this is the church's decree is left unsaid.
The church also provides a place of entertainment for the kids, where they can watch video tapes or put on shows for each other. Though the shows are as far as we know something that began on Chrollo's initiative, and was not something the church did regularly prior to that. It seems that before Chrollo (literally) came to the scene, the kids didn't have much in the way of entertainment outside their own games, which is partly why his shows made such an impact.
The church also arranges funerals and presumably were the ones to contact Renko the embalmer to put Sarasa's corpse back together.
This is all the concrete info we have of what the church does for the kids. The rest is up to speculation. (Including who feeds and cares for the poor kids when injured or sick)
The church overall doesn't seem to feel too responsible for the children's safety. Nor do any of the adults, quite frankly. We don't see any active steps taken to protect kids from being harmed at all.
They're left to roam about unsupervised even when there's an ongoing problem with abductions and worse. And when Sarasa goes missing, not one adult notices or arranges a search for her. Not even her nannies stir from their hamlet to look or ask for her, even after she's been missing the whole night DURING AN ACTIVE CHILD ABDUCTION/MURDER CRISIS.
-_- you assumed, you say? And you didn't think to, I don't know, check to be sure?? Nannies of the year, folks
It's the kids themselves who put in motion a search and it's the kids who are the ones to find and retrieve Sarasa's remains, an event that scarred them all for life. (We do learn of a men's union that might help search for her, with the reasoning that "no one'll turn us down if we mention Chrollo!" Which... is so depressing and so fucked up. Adults are only sure to help if the name of the elders' chosen one is invoked. It is yet further proof of how much unreasonable authority—and responsibility—is laid on the shoulders of a sensitive 11 year old)
Nor do we see the traumatised young PT get any form of help with their grief. Nor does anyone seem to have stepped in to try to put a stop to them going down a dangerous and self-destructive path of revenge and violence. Knowing Meteor City's present day penchant for extreme revenge (and the elders' penchant for wanting literal kids to solve the city's problems blegh) I don't think they did try to stop them tbh. I think they either left them to themselves as usual, or encouraged them along.
As you can tell, I'm not very charitably inclined to any of the MC authority figures (including the church).
They failed the kids, and appear to have left them to fend for themselves.
But then, isn't that the running theme of HxH? Adults miserably failing, grooming, or otherwise exploiting and abusing children?
For further reading about my disgust for the way Meteor City treats their children (and Chrollo in particular) have a look at these posts
Aaah yes! That's such a weirdly wholesome little moment from a character like Chrollo isn't it?
I think it can be interpreted as both (though I think pragmatism is the much more prevalent motive tbh)
Chrollo needed a chauffeur, either because he knows fuck all about how to drive, but more probably because he wanted to give off the impression of a rich important (and thus more trustworthy) guy to Neon. Someone affluent enough to attend the underground auction. And as we all know, stinking rich people don't go around driving their own cars! Why do anything yourself that you can hire someone else to do for you? (Rich people logic, right? -_-)
It was crucial that Chrollo gain Neon's trust and friendship, so he needed to ensure he seemed relatable and worth taking particular notice of in the eyes of a spoiled heiress.
He couldn't enlist any if the Troupe, including Shalnark, since they were doing other things at that time (namely going after Nostrade family employees. or "babysitting" in Nobunaga's case lol) and were then needed to carry out the Requiem. I think that's why Chrollo didn’t ask to use any of their powers on that day. They all needed them themselves.
Besides, he probably usually skates by a lot of situations like this by using his charisma and/or money. The former is (or so I hypothesize) how he often manages to steal abilities for himself; through turning on the charm (and in some instances his good looks also likely help a lot). Anyway, I imagine recruiting/exploiting/hiring people isn't much of a problem for Chrollo to do by himself.
And it's all the easier when the person he's employing for his schemes is in dire need of money, (and has nothing else to do, meaning he's instantly available). Then all Chrollo needs to do is be friendly and show off his stack of Jenny
So in summary; my perhaps at times over cynical ass is inclined to think this was mostly pragmatic on Chrollo's part. However, that doesn't necessarily mean that Chrollo doesn't feel some form of empathy for downtrodden people.
We do know that the PT do acts of philanthropy on occasion. It's never stated how encompassing this philanthropy work is (I tend to think it's almost exclusively focused on Meteor City, since that is what we see and what we know the Troupe cares about), but it is something that is worth noting in their (slight!) favor.
So some part of the reason why Chrollo specifically employed the homeless dude might very well have been an act of compassion (Chrollo's nature is to be compassionate and kind, as seen in his childhood. He would probably have grown up to do a lot of good for a lot of people under different circumstances. Maybe his compassion very occasionally surfaces to extend to certain people outside his usual circle of care in adulthood? Nothing's impossible)
It does worry me a bit though that we never see or hear from the chauffeur again. Especially so because we know he was in the vicinity of the Mafia bloodbath...while also wearing a black suit. Unless Chrollo expressly told the Troupe not to touch the poor bloke, there's a chance he ended up in the line of fire. I mean I'd like to believe he survived and is living his best life off of the pay he got, but who knows. I guess what I want to say is that Chrollo did expose the man to real danger and possible death, and we don't learn what his ultimate fate was one way or the other (unless I missed a panel or sth. It's happened before)
Idk in general though I think that Chrollo's care and concern have been severely restricted to his family/friends/home ever since his decision to become a villain. The Kurta Massacre more than anything shows a striking lack of camaraderie with other marginalized groups. It truly highlights how callous and despicable he is.
That's such a legit question, aha ><
What I wouldn't give to see those three missing years put on page! (And also Risnorth's murder please and thank you. Want to see that bitch burn)
My best guess would be one that has to do with what I've touched upon at different places above; I think Chrollo likely used his already remarkable intellect and charisma to gain the funds/network. Whether through application to the elders (who we know were more than ready to give him the opportunity to "help to solve the various problems plaguing Meteor City" smfh. those crusty old asswipes), or to someone else on the outside.
Or maybe he used his fighting skills and Nen to accrue the funds and then network?
We know how insanely skilled Chrollo is both as a Nen user and as a physical fighter (the latter is for some reason often underestimated or even forgotten, when in reality it's made extremely evident — as evident as his Nen mastery in fact— during his match against Hisoka. But I'm beginning to veer off topic). Maybe like Gon and Killua after him, once he'd developed the requisite skills, he got the money through fighting in tournaments etc? Or maybe his prowess as a thief began earlier than we thought and he just went around stealing the funds he needed lmao
But yeah my bet's that his uncommon potential was picked up by someone like the elders (if they themselves weren't the ones who provided him with the initial funds and contacts) and they invested in him, or he earned the money through other skills that he developed and made use of.
Chrollo has always been an exceptionally bright and talented cookie with seemingly bottomless potential (his Nen ability by itself is evidence of his insane ability to quickly learn and grow and adapt and utilize a number of very different skills in an impressively effective manner), and his magnetism has been evident since his childhood. Circumstances and lack of own funds excepted, he had every resource within himself to accomplish almost anything he set his own mind to.
I'd love to hear other people's theories on this!! My own feel a bit lacking because I'm not terribly creative or imaginative I fear (；-◞౪◟-)
But to end off; yes, I completely agree with you (the person who sent this ask) that the reason behind it is extremely tragic. Chrollo and the PT's story as a whole is.
They weren't born evil, or even bad. They wanted to do good, but felt they had no choice but to be bad (then went way overboard and became genuinely horrible people with no justification behind their actions). They are a cautionary tale of the danger in fighting monsters; they became ones equally despicable themselves. And also a cautionary tale of the futility of revenge. If Nobunaga is to be believed, they spent much of their early days (the period of which I interpret to be after Risnorth's killing and leading up to the Kurta Massacre) fumbling around trying desperately to find purpose, while angrily lashing out at the world (even wanting to destroy it in their bitterness).
They didn’t find peace or resolution in the act (assuming it was indeed them who murdered Risnorth, which isn't confirmed but most probable, and personally what I hope and choose to believe is true. For no other reason than that I know they'd have made sure that the bastard suffered in the most horrific manner known to man before disposing of him).
The futility of revenge is importantly another theme of HxH; exemplified with Gon vs Pitou, and Kurapika's quest, or even Chrollo's current obsession to be the one to end Hisoka. Revenge doesn't heal the grief you feel. All it does is injure yourself (and others) even further.
˙ ⌒ ˙◟ ͜ ◞˙ ୨⸸ৎ ˙◟ ͜ ◞˙ ⌒ ˙ ∘
Thank you both for your interesting questions <3 I had a lot of fun answering them!!
(I've also decided to reopen my askbox as a result :D. Figured I might as well at this point, aha. I am not suited for DMs when it comes to answering questions like these since I always want to ramble and write paragraphs lmao)
(The fact that Machi is smiling when she discusses Chrollo's interests speaks volumes of her affection for him since she only smiles like... I think three or so times total throughout the whole manga).
They love their boss so much <3
And no wonder, considering this was the impact he had on them as kids
Chrollo's performance was a transformative experience for them. It was the catalyst for the happiest period of their lives.
Chrollo inspired them.
He gave them the prospect of a future where they'd be able to travel the world together and bring joy and excitement to others as well as to themselves.
He did for them what no one else ever had—he gave them hope. He gave them a sense of purpose. And he continued to do so, even after horrific tragedy struck—only now that purpose was of a vastly (and brutally) different kind.
It makes complete sense that they all still harbor such immense loyalty and love for their leader. He means everything to them (and they to him).
It's just a shame and a tragedy that Chrollo himself doesn't realize just how deep that love runs.
PT moments in HXH that hit hard after experiencing their backstory (Part I)
Idk about you, but for me, going through Hunter X Hunter again after reading chapters 395-97 is to take emotional blow after emotional blow ;-;
So let's highlight those moments of pain! Because in this house we are masochists and we regularly invoke suffering upon ourselves
(Also I did say I would make this post at some point, so I'm trying to stick to my resolutions)
A few things I want to note first though
This "list" won't be in a strictly chronological order but rather in the order that I happened to come up with as I wrote (which just so happened to be chronological at first before I went off course). What it will be is heavily Chrollo-centric because I am nothing if not biased and especially unwell about him. The second part will be a bit more balanced. I think.
For the sake of not having to go over to the desktop version to upload a bunch of images (you can only upload 10 per post on the app version RIP) I have decided to split the post into 2 parts. In the past I have unwittingly gone down the road of uploading a dozen or so extra images via desktop and the experience was nothing short of a trial of patience (I wanted to rip my hair out). Maybe this solution is for the best though since the post would be ungodly long otherwise.
Without further ado, here are the moments that puncture my heart upon reread/rewatch
⸸ "Uvo-san, can you hear us? We are playing a requiem for you"
I can't go through the above moment anymore without immediately recalling this panel from chapter 397
The "Uvo-san" makes my heart hurt. 15 years on and that is still how Chrollo thinks of Uvogin, and how he refers to him away from the Troupe (aka as close to his true self as he gets). A decade of being Uvogin's boss never lessened the respect he holds for him.
I also think about this panel of them smiling at each other.
I think about how happy they made each other. How much they loved each other all the way until the end
⸸ Chrollo standing alone up on a stage
With the context of Chrollo's backstory this shot is extremely poignant. It always makes me think of this image
and then my heart is cut open
(Togashi knew what he was doing when he originally drew Chrollo up on that stage, I am 100% certain of it)
On this same token, Chrollo's ability becomes quite bittersweet the more you think of it because it also hearkens back to his love for acting and his talent for embodying different roles. I won't go into it more since I've already made a post about it which you can find here. Additionally (if you're sick of my yapping ass or just want to go even more in depth on the topic), you can read this post by @sugarchrollo
⸸ "In the beginning... we just wanted..."
"...to perform and have fun together"
"...to make ourselves and others happy"
"...to travel the world together"
"...to make life brighter and more hopeful for people like ourselves"
Any of the above could finish Chrollo's thought, really.
And that's what makes the line so fucking crushing. The PT's dreams and ambitions started out so innocent, and so kind. They only had good intentions. All they wanted was to bring joy to themselves and to others by doing something they were passionate about.
Added to this, the shot of the VHS tape feels like a knife to the chest when you recall that Sarasa is buried with it. Because of how it symbolized the happiest and most precious period in the PT's lives, which died when she did. They left a piece of themselves with her.
I am getting tears in my eyes writing this... Togashi what are you doing to me? (Ily for doing it. Any work of fiction or art that can evoke beautiful emotions like this is invaluably precious)
⸸ Chrollo and Pakunoda's final moment together
I mean... what can you even say about this moment? I don't think words suffice. Just contrast it with this panel in chapter 395.
(That sound you heard just now was my heart shattering to pieces btw.)
Chrollo and Paku's relationship is a tragedy, no matter if you view it as strictly platonic or as an unfulfilled romance (whether mutual or one-sided). Pakunoda went to her death knowing she'd betrayed Chrollo, the person she'd always loved more than anything on earth. Meanwhile Chrollo is left without having had the chance to talk with her a final time. To tell her that he forgives her (I'm of the opinion that Chrollo ultimately respects Pakunoda's decision, though disappointed by it, and that he doesn't hold anger or resentment towards her for making that choice. Only grief).
One also wonders how long it took until Chrollo learnt of her death. Maybe he predicted that that would be the outcome, but equally her death may have come as a devastating shock to him when informed of it. In any case, his leaving her spot deliberately vacant says everything about the love and respect he feels for her still. And about his forgiveness, imo.
⸸ "Because we're his friends, we don't want him to be a murderer!"
Gon's words to Pakunoda about Kurapika must have been like a sledgehammer (it for sure is to me) because of how it both echoes and contrasts her own experience with Chrollo at a similar age.
Look at this panel
Her expression after Chrollo's declaration says everything. She is devastated. But unlike Gon and Killua, Paku didn't stop her friend from becoming a killer. Instead she joined him on the path. Her circumstances were of course drastically different from Gon's and Killua's in that she shared her friend's trauma and need for vengeance, but in hindsight I think she deeply regrets that she didn't attempt to stop him. Not for the sake of his victims mind you but for Chrollo's sake full stop (Pakunoda is by no means a saint or even a good person, make no mistake). Phinks' message to the boys that "Paku wanted to thank you" adds weight to that belief, and this regret seems to be something that he (and likely the rest of the OG members) sympathize with to some extent after receiving her memories (at least that's my reading of this).
⸸ Chrollo's tears after Uvogin's death is confirmed to him
The similarity of this panel
to this one where he cries for Sarasa is striking
At his core, when it comes to his friends/family? He's still the same. He still cares so deeply for his loved ones. He just doesn't feel as free to convey that care as openly as he once did, hence why he comes across as colder even in his relation to them. It's significant that the one time we see Chrollo cry as an adult is when he's away from his Troupe. When he talks about Uvogin with them he's pragmatic, strategical, unemotional. He's the aloof leader through and through.
(Not that the Troupe are fooled by this cool demeanor he puts on around them. Not anymore, at least. Bonolenov confirms in chapter 405 how obvious his love for and grief over his friends are to them, and that Chrollo in turn is aware of the fact that they are aware... which makes him act even more nonchalant in an attempt to cling on to the "Danchou" persona he's been wearing since he was 14. A vicious and self destructive cycle indeed. It makes it obvious how damaged and how stunted Chrollo is in some ways as a result of his trauma and his enforced responsibilities, for all his intelligence and charisma.)
⸸ "Chrollo, we still need you... even if that means betraying the Spider"
Jumping back on the ChrolloPaku pain express, Paku's feelings and sentiments re: Chrollo hurt especially when you recall the way she used to look at him when they were children
She loved him. Adored him. Admired him.
And she still does, even after all that had happened. Even after their relationship changed (him becoming her leader, and she being unable ever to touch him due to the Nen vow she imposed on herself). She loved him to the point where she would betray him and give up her life if it meant she could save his.
I'm not ok. These two destroy me. Leave me in shambles. Fuck </3
⸸ The PT's reverence and love for Chrollo
It's not just Pakunoda who adores Chrollo. The rest of the Troupe do, too. (See this post here that I wrote for cute examples of this adoration). Their feelings were obvious even before the backstory. But we didn't know precisely how they came about. The backstory chapters made that touchingly clear. Chrollo changed their lives, gave them a sense of purpose, and of unadulterated joy; both to possess and to give to others. There is no overestating just how central Chrollo has been to them all ever since childhood.
The sad thing is (which I point out in the linked post) that Chrollo himself doesn't grasp just how important he as an individual and as a friend is to all of them, but fully expects them to swiftly sacrifice him and replace him if it benefits the Spider.
⸸ "I believe... that we have a soul"
Chrollo's statement to Neon reminds me of his words after Sarasa's death, where he talks about meeting her in the afterlife. What's interesting is that back then as an 11 year old Chrollo seemed uncertain as to whether the afterlife is a reality (the possibility that it isn't was part of the reason why Chrollo was hellbent on revenge), whereas as an adult he seems confident in his belief that an afterlife (or at least an immortal soul independent of the corporeal body) exists. Not only his words to Neon, but also his speech to the dead Uvogin and his acceptance that Uvo's soul is "quietly rising" (presumably to Heaven) support this reading.
I talked about this in one of my other posts (I yap a lot about Chrollo as you've realized dhdjfj), but I find this belief of Chrollo's fascinating and rather unique in a villain. He's in a way become more hopeful since his childhood, in spite of his gruesome deeds and the horror that he's witnessed. It's undeniably quite touching (if a bit odd that he doesn't question Uvo's spirit rising rather than descending considering the shit he's done. Perhaps it's simply Chrollo's infamous hypocrisy at play or perhaps his view on the afterlife is as complex and unconventional as most things about him are, and therefore doesn't adhere to things as morality and divine punishments).
One last thing about this, and a contrast to Chrollo's attitude as a child vs adult. With Uvogin he was anxious to fulfill what he knew to be his wishes; with Sarasa, he knowingly went against them. I don't think this signifies anything tbh, but it's interesting to think about. I also wonder if Chrollo sometimes worries about meeting Sarasa in the afterlife, if doing what he knows she'd never approve of eats at his conscience still. Or if he's fully justified everything to himself after living half his life as a mass murderer.
That's it for Part I!! Part II to come sometime soon. Or at least that's the plan. Procrastination is a bitch.
Update: Part II is now written and posted! It can be found here!
PT moments in HXH that hit hard after experiencing their backstory (Part II electric boogaloo)
You can find part I here. I recommend you check it out before reading this second part (for maximum amount of emotional pain). Though really it's completely fine to disregard my recommendation. Doesn't matter terribly much tbh. Anyway let's get this masochist party started!
⸸ Phinks and Feitan still being BFFs
I know, I know; this isn't really a "moment" as such, nor is it sad, but I'm counting it regardless because this is my post and I'm free to tweak or even break my own rules on occasion. I will stick mostly to pain and sadness and misery after this deviation though dw. Also this might very well become depressing if/when one or both die on the Black Whale
Anyway, while not sad, it still does hit me in the feels that these two have stayed best friends for two decades. A loyal and strong friendship is never not touching. Even if said friends are mass murdering sadists.
As adults they're more often than not hanging out, tend to team up both in the field and in disputes within the Troupe, engage in very family friendly contests, and enjoy teasing each other.
As kids they're constantly seen together. Their very first backstory appearance have them as a bike riding duo
Look at these little dorks. Look at Phinks' stupid haircut. Look at Feitan wielding a bat as big as himself. They both look so adorably dumb I'm crying
On the topic of BFFs though, I think it was an interesting choice of Togashi's to not have a single scene between Nobu and Uvo in the backstory, considering how important their friendship were as adults and how hard the former was hit by the latter's death, even weeping openly and being the most intent of all the Troupe on revenge. Because of this I wish we'd gotten at least one moment between them in the backstory. But it might be that they formed their special friendship a while after the events of 397.
On the same token, it's interesting that Uvo and Machi seemed to have shared a big brother/little sister relationship as kids, whereas we don't really see them interact as adults. It stands to reason that Machi must have been hit very hard by his death too, but since she isn't really the expressive type I suppose it isn't too odd that we didn't get to see her reaction to it, unlike Nobu who is much more sentimental and outwardly emotional. Still, now that I know how close they were as kids, I would have loved to have had some scenes between them as adults.
⸸ "I wanted to be stronger than anything..."
This admission of Uvogin's, combined with the event that accompanies it (that being his "gorilla vs ants" fight against the mafia), recalls his childhood dream of being the world's greatest villain
It always floors me when I realize that this dream of being a great villain and putting on shows across the world together would actually come true; only in a much more literal and gruesome fashion than young Uvo imagined.
This is a strike of (quite dark) ironic brilliance on the part of Togashi.
It just makes me so sad to think about. The baby Troupe's ambitions and desires were innocent and well-meaning. They wanted to become famous for a genuinely sweet and sympathetic cause. Instead they became infamous and eventually lost any justification they once had for their actions, both embodying and far surpassing the villains from their dubbing shows. They had gone from actors to monsters.
(There were legitimate and understandable reasons behind their early deeds, such as the killings of Risnorth and other predators. They did society a favor there. Rest in piss to those asswipes. But they then went completely off the deep end likely due to their still unresolved trauma and anger, lashing out at the world at large and becoming crueler and more reprehensible until it all culminated with the Kurta Massacre, for which there can never be any justification. At that stage, they had probably long ceased to care about justifications anyway. Villainy had simply become second nature to them by then, and compassion or care for anyone but each other and their home a foreign concept.)
⸸ Machi's ability to stitch severed body parts back together
You know where I'm going with this. You know how crushingly sad the reason behind this ability is.
It all originates from this moment. From her empathy and her care for her friends. From her inability to do anything for Sarasa other than cradle her dismembered remains. From her wanting to be able to do for her remaining friends what she couldn't do for Sarasa, should a similar fate befall them.
Machi's ability stems from trauma, grief, and compassion.
Which ties into...
⸸ "Machi is a nice person at heart"
Shalnark's statement is relative ofc. By Phantom Troupe and mass murderer standards, it holds true enough. By her victims' (or most normal peoples) standards... not so much.
But I would argue that Machi is indeed likely the most compassionate and kindhearted of all the Troupe members (the bar is needless to say in hell). But that held true even in childhood (with the arguable exception of Chrollo, whose most outstanding personality traits as a child were compassion and kindness), before any of them had become horrible or even bad people. That is best seen in the panel above, where Machi hugs Sarasa's remains and apologizes to her, empathizing with the pain and fear she must have suffered in her final moments, as well as in her later desire to learn how to embalm as a direct result of this incident.
In addition of her Phantom Troupe job, she works as a medic (for a high payment, but still.) Unlike some other adult members, she doesn't express overt sadistic intent or glee in her murderous actions. It feels more like it's just part of the job to her. She is deeply devoted to Chrollo and is like Paku, Nobu and Kortopi determined to save his life even if it means potential danger to herself as well as betraying the Spider ideology (and Chrollo himself). She is seen guarding Pakunoda's grave. She wants no part in the Greed Island shenanigans. She honors the deal she made with Hisoka to stitch him up after his battle with Chrollo, even thanking him for helping to exorcise the latter.
Machi was not born bad. The person she grew up to be came about not through amy inherent evil, but through circumstances. The same can be said for the other PT members too, but she is arguably the one who has managed to retain most of her childhood compassion, though of course it doesn’t extend far enough to show mercy for any of the Troupe's targets or victims.
⸸ Phinks lending Shizuku his clothes
You know, this cute little moment
It reminds me of Sarasa's words about him in chapter 396
Her words are further borne out by panels like this in 397, where his worry for her is palpable
Sarasa implies the same of Uvogin; that he too is a marshmallow on the inside.
Which leads me neatly to
⸸ "Uvo would never admit it... but he worked better when he was looking out for someone"
This insight from Franklin, plus moments like Uvogin kissing Shalnark on the cheek and panels in the backstory like this one below confirms Sarasa's belief.
She truly had a good understanding of her friends, didn't she ;_; that's partly why I think she was so protective of Chrollo; like Pakunoda, she was well aware of and treasured his kindness and light.
And speaking of Chrollo...
⸸ "How can you kill people who have nothing to do with you?"
I've spoken about this moment and how terrific it is before. His expression is so raw and so visceral and such a terrifying gut punch the first time you experience it (no wonder it made Gon unsettled—I would have shat my pants quite frankly).
But with the context of the backstory, his reflexive expression becomes more like a stab to the heart. To me it confirms the suspicion of triggered trauma that I had once I'd pondered over the panel after the first initial shock (prior to reading the backstory). It makes all too much sense for Chrollo to be triggered, because to ask this question is to dig right to the core of the childhood tragedy that changed the course of his life; to make him face it (and his own hypocrisy) in a way he likely never has since becoming an adult. I doubt anyone (whether stranger, foe, or friend/family) has ever posed this question to him before. Hence why his usually iron composure momentarily fractures and his buried emotions become visible after being directly confronted with the issue; with having to face that he's now become the mask that he put on all those years ago (that of a villain), and more than that, that he's become in a way like the people responsible for his trauma.
This similarity is underscored in the "people who have nothing to do with you" part of Gon's question. Like Sarasa's murderers, Chrollo too kills and brutalizes people that he doesn't know, and like them he does it without remorse or care. Gon's question might very well have been one that young Chrollo would have asked Sarasa's killers; and now here he is standing in their position.
The scene reveals just how far Chrollo has been twisted and how much of a hypocrite he is. I also sense lingering grief and fury in his expression, but this is of course just my personal take on the scene and might be me reading too much into it.
Anyway the visceral death glare vanishes quickly; Chrollo is mature enough to recognize the genuine (and naïve) curiosity behind Gon's question, and he quickly composes himself, even smiling briefly and actually engaging with the question... if not very satisfactorily (Killua's valid reaction being "wtf is with this dude??" while Gon just stares in mute disbelief). Usually so eloquent, it's notable that Chrollo is unable to provide a straightforward or even particularly comprehensible answer. This is (in my belief) likely due to more than one factor. One being that at this stage, Chrollo's identity crisis is such that he lacks full knowledge of himself; but also I just don't think he has any wish to divulge the brutal torture, murder and dismemberment of his little sister, which was after all the catalyst for his transformation into a murderer. Hence his comment that "I don't much like to talk about my motives".
Speaking of...
⸸ "I don't much like to talk about my motives"
Chrollo not wanting to talk about his motives is reminiscent of his refusal ever to talk about what was written on those notes found with Sarasa's body
(Have I talked about how devastatingly brilliant Togashi is at drawing expressions of grief and despair before? If I haven't, I will slap myself as penance because good lord is his work masterful.)
Furthermore, it makes me think of the cover art of volume 11, where Chrollo covers his mouth with his hand, something he does more than once throughout the series.
This mannerism feels deeply meaningful and poignant now that we know that he's carried a traumatic secret in silence all these years; one that very likely plays a major part of why his psyche became so broken and warped, and why he was so hellbent on killing Risnorth and the others responsible. It also speaks to his care for his friends that he both wants to preserve Sarasa's dignity, and shield the others from all the horrific details of her death; but this is to the detriment of his own wellbeing, since it means he has had to keep the knowledge to himself with no way to work through the trauma of it. It's been locked exclusively inside his own mind since he was a child. It's easy to understand how that would fuck up a person, especially when you take all the other trauma and circumstance into account.
⸸ The particular way Shalnark and Kortopi's corpses were displayed
It made a spectacle and "art" of their deaths, which for any of the original PT members would be an especially sore spot, since this particular brand of brutalization and display is what created the Spider in the first place.
Hisoka unknowingly added salt to an already grievous wound.
This (I think) plays at least some part in why Chrollo is spiraling so badly, to the point of his almost suicidal tunnel visioned obsession with revenge.
(The similarity between these panels just struck me as I'm writing this. On the left is eleven year old Chrollo hellbent on vengeance, on the right present day Chrollo spiraling down the same path)
And (I think) it's also partly why his mask is finally beginning to crumble, leaving him emotionally fragile and raw; his childhood trauma and grief (which he's never resolved, instead focusing on vengeance and on embodying his lifelong role as villain) has been triggered in the most brutal way.
⸸ The massacre of the Mafia
Ending on a positive note with this.
This moment hits good. It's what they all deserved for exploiting Meteor City all those years (and also for simply being the Mafia).
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