[…Imma go in on this. A Rant, if you will, that will cross into a way larger idea than the main issue with this^^^ Because I do love you, @rogueslove. But man, do I have a hot take to give here(which is partly a tangent too, tbh). ]
….Except that at no point it was implied that Remy(even though he clearly does want more from her) was actively pushing to get back with her.
He sees her and feels things. Sure.
But it’s not actually much more elaborate than that at this point, and there is a gap between the idea of ‘seeing someone you like’, and ‘trying to get back together with them, formally’.
The only thing we know for a fact right now is that he misses her. He wants to talk to her. Wants to spend time with her.
He’s talking dinner. With his ‘best friend’(which, contrary to popular belief, they have been. Because of course they have).
His typical innuendo (maybe a little dumbly)inserted? Yeah. Sure.
But Remy did that back in the day, and it worked.
I’m not saying it’s the right approach to take, or the best tactic, but you can’t fault the man for thinking that’s a good angle, when that was the sole reason they got to a point where they could happen in the first place.
Had he not pursued her the way he did back then?
He would have ended somewhere in the realm of crushes-that-never-even-happened with, like, Longshot.
And the status quo today? Very similar to the one they were working with back when they started:
She’s ornery, and he’s aware that there’s more to it than that(and there is).
Which brings me to the thing that I knew was gonna happen at some point with this book, not surprised that it happened in the first issue:
R+G is gonna read however the hell you wanna read it, and not even in the usual ’different interpretations’ sense, because some things are really not that abstract(This isn’t inception), but people tend to have a strong opinions in regards to Rogue and Gambit together. Usually favouring one of the two characters, fiercely.
I’m talking in a much more basic level than that:
+ If you read this book looking to sympathise with Rogue, then(because this is what usually happens on principle) all of Gambit’s nuances do not exist, and he’s just an inconsiderate clown, and a creep who can’t get a clue.
+ If you read this book looking to sympathise with Gambit, then(the same principle applies) Rogue is a frigid bitch without a valid reason, and needs to stay away from Gambit.
Neither of those are even remotely true.
Starting with the fact that they love each other.
It’s not just chemistry. It’s not just “heavy mutual history that they can’t seem to put behind”. It’s not an addiction or a fixation. It’s not an idealisation. It’s not an unhealthy attachment.
It’s never been about wether or not they do. That’s always been known.
Those two premises up there(and the following ideas)^^^ stop being factual opinions the moment canon is taken into consideration. Because canon 616 has debunked all of those at one point or the other.
Rogue and Gambit as a couple might read ‘iffy’ if you follow the idea that they don’t actually want the best for the other.
That they are both “scratching an emotionally codependent itch” with each other, and there’s not much more to it than that.
Because the “creep” factor is only a thing if you go with the idea that Rogue is no longer into him like that, Remy knows this, and he still pushes with no regard or consideration for her feelings, or what she wants.
An assumption(that can only be possible, if you don’t care enough to look into what Gambit’s character is actually about).
If that girl were truly done with Gambit, and he just kept coming for her like that, she would have no problem with socking him in the face, and walking away, LMAO.
She’d be the last person to take that shit, especially today.
On the plane? The only reason he brings up the “Well, you kissed Deadpool” thing was because he made a move to touch her with a finger(Which, like. Yeah, Remy. No. But he’s not perfect, and it was clear he wasn’t gonna try to kiss her, or jump her, or anything of that nature.), and then she was like “No, Remy, my powers”.
Which to be fair, is/has been a very real and terrifying thing for her, yes.
Because he’s heard that one many times before, and has had no problems abiding to that. She has asked for time and space, on multiple occasions, and he has listened.
Because Remy likes to drink his “Respect Rogue Juice”.
But at that moment in the plane, what he sees is that it’s NOT so much of a “my powers” kinda thing, but actually a “Remy” kinda thing.
AKA: It’s not the touch(like she says). It’s him(apparently), and he resents that, because he has always made an active effort to abide by her ground rules.
Which, like. Being serious? Not unreasonable of him.
That outburst about Deadpool wasn’t a “WAH WAH WHY DON’T YOU WANNA TOUCH ME IF YOU KISSED HIM??1!!!1!!” thing.
It was a loud “Oh, ok, no touch? Fine. But don’t say it’s because of your powers, because that’s NOT it, and you know it.”
Which, again, not unreasonable.
Doesn’t mean her concerns aren’t valid, or that her space doesn’t have to be respected. She has her own shit to sort out.
But it’s not unreasonable for Remy’s frustration to leak out at this point. Especially with how much he’s taken without saying a peep, out of genuine love for her.
Characters don’t have to display A++, 100% reasonable behaviour all of the time.
Generally reasonable people aren’t like that 100% of the time.
We all have limits. Remy is cool and collected like 85% of the time. Let him be a human being.
( Which is a whole ‘nother issue of people being completely incapable of realising that both characters have reasonable shit to be upset about, because most people need a bad guy in every conflict they feel strongly about. )
But even then, with the whole “not a ‘touch’ thing, more like a ‘Remy’s touch’ thing”, it’s not even a Remy thing.
It’s a “he unbalances her” thing.
[ And we all know the thing about Rogue and control. That is a delicate situation. ]
Which, for the sake of the plot, is an important distinction to make.
Because, again, if Rogue were done with Remy, she would have no problem with throwing his ass on a dumpster, and be done with it.
Which, by the look she gave him in the danger room–
–and shit we’ve gotten, subtleties, in comics about them, recently? Not a thing.
[ Even this thing^^^. That’s the closest either of them have ever been on pragmatically declaring their relationship over, and even then; it’s after witnessing a cartoon-y, overly dramatic, trivialised version of their complex history together. +The fact that they haven’t spent any actual time together in a while… it’s not weird for them to honestly be like “yeah, no” @THAT SHIT UP THERE(which is also not an accurate depiction of their actual relationship).
…and even then, it’s still in the Trippy Astral Plane Bullshit™, featuring mind games, all sponsored by Amahl Farouk.
…One issue after Remy calls her ‘the love of his life’, and two before they are carpe dieming it in the astral hot tub. ]
While Rogue absolutely is at a point where she “isn’t lifting anymore”, for the lone canon reason that she doesn’t want to be crushed under the weight of the disappointment that comes with them ending,
she also doesn’t want to move away from the… metaphoric boulder(?), if that makes sense.
Also. If there is ANYONE who’s been aware of Rogue’s specific nuances and boundaries it’s Remy Lebeau.
He respects her, and her space. Especially today. As he has shown on multiple occasions.
No one has ever had to hear Rogue saying “I need my space” more than he has.
He goes back to live his own full, interesting life. He doesn’t stop living it for her.
He’s still human, tho. And just because he’s famed for being good with women does not mean he’s beyond vulnerability and what comes with it. Especially when he’s actually emotionally invested, as he is with her.
Which is not a one sided thing:
And her stubborn ass doesn’t argue back then because she does know why.
and he knows that she knows.
and that is what makes all the difference in the narrative.
That is something you have to accept when reading the book. That Rogue is/has been keeping shit to herself, and Remy knows this.
( Which is something that has been hinted on their more recent interactions. Bitch doesn’t say what’s on her mind. )
Because while all of us feel things, and wish some things would happen, had happened, or didn’t happen, there needs to be a distinction between:
What we feel characters are about, what we think they should do, or how they should feel, where characters are coming from, how they should react, because that’s what we feel would be best, or is the truth.
What is actually happening in the story.
Gambit is not some random dudebro coming at her. The history they have together isn’t anything remotely close to comparable to the run-of-the-mill ‘on and off’ couple who just “can’t seem to figure it out”.
Rogue being skittish around Gambit is not new.
And to say that the situation in R+G#1(or in their general interactions) is Rogue wanting to be chill friends with Gambit, and him just not getting it/not accepting that, because he wants more?
By the looks of it, Rogue doesn’t even know where she wants to look at when he’s around.
Like… not even touching the idea of friendship, yet.
The idea that Rogue is in a headspace where she’d gladly take Remy’s friendship on her own volition is not… a thing.
Rogue would have freaked out about Gambit touching her, even if it’d had the most canon platonic intentions.
And not because she doesn’t like him anymore. Because she clearly still feels a lot of things for him.
Rogue is the type to ask for space, because *stress*, and then never come back.
Remy and her only happened in the first place because he figured her gimmick out.
And this is not a matter of “no” secretly meaning “yes”, which is a gross and dangerous idea.
This is a very specific case, of a very specific dynamic, between two specific people.
Remy is not a stranger on the street.
Remy knows her better than like 96% of people, and in her specific case?
He’s aware that if he let’s her just take her own pace, she is never coming back(or at least, not until it’s too late).
And not for lack of wanting to.
Because some people are like that, and get way in their heads over shit. Which, taking the nature of Rogue’s conflict as a character into consideration? Understandable.
And wether or not people feel that it should or shouldn’t have to be like that, it doesn’t matter because that’s how it is at this point.
@People who feel that Remy seriously needs to back off of Rogue for her sake, because she’s clearly moved on with her life, and doesn’t he get that?
@People who feel that Rogue has strung Gambit along for way too long, and he should move on from her, because that is dead and over, and the sooner he gets that through his head, and gets it, the better?
That’s cool, but that’s not actually how either of them feels(and it’s not actually bad writing that they don’t).
If we wanna talk head-canons, dope.
But this does make sense in canon, at this point. Their interactions in R+G#1 make all the sense in the world, if you follow their story, beyond the basic gloss over.
Rogue not wanting to deal. Remy getting tired of Rogue’s evasion, and demanding her to listen about how he feels.
On a human level, it makes sense.
The thing is that, like, 90% of Rogue fans/Gambit fans, will hate/dislike/ignore/overlook the other character of that duo on principle, or at the very least, not bother to delve much into them, and end up not really get the whole picture.
And so they literally miss out on half of the story.
Because for better or for worse with Rogue and Gambit, both, who they are today, has a lot to do with their relationship with the other.
By pretending this isn’t true, for whatever reason, you’re also missing out on a lot of depth on them on an individual level.
Because those two changed each other. Meeting/Loving each other shaped them, massively, into the people they are today.
( Also, gentle reminder that: Rogue existed before Legacy, and Remy exists outside of his last solo and ANXF. There is a lot more to them both. They did not just come out they way you see them today. That is not the entirety of their character. )
Which, for the sake of the story:
You don’t have to like it. You can hate it if you want to.
But be aware that the reason why most people tend to dislike some things so much(and I’m not talking being “meh” about it. I’m talking… dislike) is many times because(and I’ve seen it happen a lot) they don’t really have the whole story down. They have opinions a friend(s) had on events as canon.
[ Exhibit A: A huge chunk of Gambit fans despising Rogue with ever fibre of their being for the perceived wrong she’s done to Remy. Because when you conveniently ignore Rogue, then Remy has never done anything wrong in his life. ]
I don’t trust when people legitimately feel that either Rogue or Remy have been victimised by the other.
Also. Important. This is not a U GOTTA RESPEK CANON!1!! type of post.
LMAO even if it sounds like it.
Canon can suck it. I am very aware that the vast majority of people don’t actually care much about it. I know I don’t, many times.
If you don’t care for it, this post is not for you.
Canon sometimes does a lot of weird/fucked up shit, that makes no sense with the context of the story.
This is not one of those times.
This is not about telling anyone how to enjoy anything properly. Especially if you practice self care, and choose stay in the land of head-canons.
But sometimes I see people who are genuinely invested in canon, honestly confused, many times, simply because they haven’t read enough in the specific character/arc/relationship/dynamic/etc.
There is a lot of bad writing in marvel, good god, is there. Especially when writers don’t do their research.
There’s been bad writing in Rogue and Gambit interactions too, for sure, but there are many times in fandom when things get dismissed as bad writing, only because people don’t actually know enough(or overlook information) about the subject to understand the legit reasoning behind what is happening.
And because It makes no sense with what they know, well, bad writing.
But if there is one thing I know, talking marvel, is Rogue and Gambit’s relationship.
While loving/being invested on them both, as individual characters.
[ The reason I tend to be more vocal about Rogue, is because Gambit is well loved on the www.
What I mean by that is that a lot of people cannot actually come up with a reason as to why they like Rogue beyond the accent, the flying and breaking of shit, and that she’s hot. ]
And if there is one thing I can say after looking at them both, is that there are no villains and victims in that relationship.
Just shitty timing, ‘bad places’, insane circumstances, shit choices, and missed opportunities.
The conflation of opinion to what is actually going on happening in fandom is actually absolutely fine when we are having a discussion on a personal level. What we like, dislike, love, and hate.
I cannot stress that enough, if you don’t care about canon, and you just take the parts you like to shape your own narrative, then all this is literally completely irrelevant.
But there is still a story going on, that is not gonna adhere to everyone’s personal take.
This is for the people who see R+G, and simply don’t get it.
R+G is a book that, if you wanna get what is actually happening, you have to understand that they do love each other to this day.
Independently of whether or not that turns into romance.
There is a lot of shit to declutter and confront, yes. But that is where we are at, at this point.
Remy’s trying to reach her.
The feelings are still there tho.
We have 4 more issues coming.
We can read books while adhering to head-canons, but we have to understand that if that’s the case we are bound to not like, or understand many things about the stories.
Because this isn’t a Batman + The Joker. This isn’t a book where you are supposed to be able to know, clear-cut, who you should side up with, which is something I know a lot of people would like; even though this book’s premise is explicitly about not doing that.
Because the premise puts facts that a lot of people don’t like to think about on the table. That they are both good people. Both of them with good intentions. Both of them feel things still. Both of them got hurt in the past by the other. Both of them have shit to say.
We wanna talk personal head-canons where they both see reason and they shut that whole thing down?
Great. Make that RP blog. Ao3 is real. Draw all of the fanart.
But the moment people start talking about how Gambit/Rogue don’t actually love/like/care/respect each other anymore, because that’swhat they feel in their hearts should happen where it’s at in canon if you, like, squint and realise that it’s always been, like, an obsession, and that it’s not really built on hefty mutual–?
…You are talking about an AU.
Understanding the characters we ‘stan’, also means being on friendly terms with their less flattering, not-so-wholesome parts. Period.
( Which means acknowledging that, sometimes, they aren’t so much victims of their circumstances, as they are victims of their own bad calls. )
You can’t really say you understand the whole of Rogue or Gambit, then shit on the other character on behalf of ‘stanning’, and pretend you are talking about the actual character, anymore than you can say:
“Oh, I love Scott Summers. Fuck Jean Grey, tho.”
Like the character concept? Sure.
Understand the actual character? No.
You are talking about someone else.
You don’t have to like Rogue loving Gambit to this day, or vice versa, but you should at least understand why they do.
Because it involves way deeper reasoning than writers simply not calling it off.
We need to chill on the idea that our personal biases have merit on the story, in the specific cases in which it has been explicitly shown that not to be the case.
I’m gonna say that again:
“ We need to chill on the idea that our personal biases have merit on the story–
–in the specific cases in which it has been explicitly shown that not to be the case. “
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