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[rgwriter]

Just a little fun

Made a comment about the graduation speech yesterday that I thought was funny, but you can't deny that the comparison has some validity. :)

The Mi(Mic)

Is pretending to be something we all know he isn't.

The Will O' The Wisp

A beautiful light unwittingly leading the party into danger.

The (El)der Brain

Floating in her brine pool, making telepathic connections and issuing mind blasts.

[rgwriter]

Forget the doors and gates, what about all the windows?

I was thinking about the couple relationships in ST and noted that they're all forbidden in one way or another. And then I thought about the fact that they show that through windows ie they all have window scenes.

Steve and Nancy are hiding their relationship in season 1 and Steve climbs up to her bedroom window in secret. Jonathon takes pictures of Nancy through Steve's window. Then Steve sees Jonathon in her room through her window, and they both climb out of it before Karen comes in her room.

Nancy and Jonathon are not only from different financial/ social classes, which they mention a few times, but she sleeps with him while technically still dating Steve, and in 3 sneaks out of his bedroom through the window every morning.

Max's brother is scary, racist and judgmental, and she has to sneak out her window to leave with Lucas and not be seen beside him when Billy picks her up.

El is hidden in a closet and a basement, and she stares at Mike through a window when she realizes she can't go back. Then she's obsessively traveling to her void (the window in her mind) to watch Mike missing her and has to sneak out of the cabin to see him, where she watches him through a window in a door talking to Max. (note the difference in that all of El's window scenes are observational only, she never climbs through one and neither does Mike)

Dustin straight up says his relationship with Suzie is romantic and forbidden. "It's all a bit Shakespearean. Like Romeo and Juliet. Star crossed lovers?" because of the distance and her family's religion. When we meet her, she requires a serenade before she helps-which is something famously done to a woman from below a balcony or through an open window. When the party goes to see her in person for the first time, they all look at her through an open window that she climbed out of to fix something on the roof.

Mike and Will have no window scenes, but they are alive in a small town in the 80s and Mike is trying to be normal, so they're the definition of forbidden. (And Robin explains the signs to get around that beside a window in a door that they can see Vickie through)

Just an interesting side note. Added all together, that's a lot of window scenes.

[beaulesbian]

The Boroughs spoilers ahead (just some ST thematic/visual parallels, because I can't stop myself from seeing the similarities)

the particles -

some clues in the lights-

even the chess/square floor pattern.. cmon-

music lifeline to reality, of course-

tunnels-

the silly comedy bits-

one from an ad, because the multiple TVs felt important-

one part that i felt was interesting about the wording - stuck in between two points of time/space-

time being funny-

hearing signals in minds (hivemind like too) -

(missing) puzzle pieces-

creatures and Mother(gate)-

and some glitches in the bathroom (or just the mirror's reflection)

[rgwriter]

This is what I've been talking about!

[rgwriter]

Prismatic Sprays, Mind songs and Friends Lying all the time

Woke up thinking about all the lying on a show with the mantra "Friends don't lie." Also about characters not noticing all the things that were wrong in their environment in season 5. So illusions, lying and blindness. When did it actually start? Why? Were there any hints before it happened?

In season 3

Lucas gets sprayed with hairspray by Dustin in the eyes in the first episode, causing temporary blindness.

Shortly after, a threat from Hopper has Mike lying to El.

Which leads to Lucas spraying Mike directly in his eyes with a purple perfume bottle, causing temporary blindness.

shortly after, Mike projects his own feelings onto Will "It's not my fault you don't like girls"

Looking for a 3rd spray, I realized that in the end of season 2, Dustin got sprayed in the face by a spore sac in the tunnels, so he was the first. Hopper did too but he's not an official party member so I'm not counting that.

*This means Will is the only member of the core four NOT to get sprayed in the eyes by something causing temporary blindness. Huh.

Following a truth serum of some kind which Mike could really use, Steve and Robin look up at the ceiling and see a kaleidoscopic or prismatic like imagery that first wows them and then makes them sick.

Mindsong- Dustin and Suzie sing Neverending Story over Cerebro and every character, including the 3 adults hiding in the Russian lab where anyone could find them if they made too much noise, all listen to the whole thing. At the time this is cute and funny, but a lot of people think this was a hugely important moment and whether it was the song or Planck's Constant, whatever happened there led to season 4 and Vecna's actions.

Lucas and Max sing this song again in a teasing way to Dustin as the Byers pack to leave for California. Will sings a line of the song and Argyle mentions The Nothing before they head to Suzie in Utah.

What if it was something like the Mind song of the False Hydra? A song that lingered in their minds to find false reasons to believe what they're seeing instead of looking for the actual truth? A song they heard after being blinded maybe?

How it changes the Byers and the party in 4 (Reverses Friends Don't Lie)

Jonathon is embracing the oblivion hard. How many times do they mention Purple (violet) Palm Tree Delight in 4, and how often does Jonathon act blind/oblivious before snapping out of it to take care of his brother? His entire arc this season is LYING to Nancy about their future and college and why he didn't come to see her (and she is embracing that lie for her own reasons)

Joyce appears unaware that El is suffering in school. Unworried about Will. Completely clueless that Jonathon is high as a kite. Yes, her distance started in 3 where she was more focused on her Hopper adventure to Illinois, but this feels different. (also a far cry from her helicopter mom strangling with apron strings behavior with Will in 5) She is LYING to her kids about where she's going and why.

El is LYING to everyone about how much she is suffering in school without Hopper or her powers. Even to Will who is seeing the truth first hand. She is so invested in her lying, that her final fight with Angela is her ordering the bully to go to Mike and tell him the lie is true, even after the Carrie milkshake incident he saw with his own eyes. When she refuses, El breaks her nose violently. She then demands the truth "From Mike" and when he doesn't give it, she is taken away by police and then Owens to find her own truth. Maybe. The Nina situation is still sketchy to me.

Will only starts lying when Mike arrives and gives him that stupid, uncomfortable bro hug and barely looks at him. And the lie is about the painting not being for him. Though he reprimands El for lying to Mike, saying he'll be upset and he won't like it, he eventually gives up (Because Mike is oblivious) and lies again with the even bigger Painting Lie. So basically he's only lying about the painting and his feelings for Mike. And to Suzie about the game system.

Mike lies to El about telling her he loves her "I say it" and then he lies in his actual love confession. Sort of. (He does love her and care about her "SO MUCH" but it's not the kind of love she wants from him) Mike lies with his eyes (noticing boys and Will and not realizing El is being bullied right in front of his face until it's too late) Mike only tells half truths to Will as well. He keeps stopping himself from being specific, telling him details about "that one thing" he should have said etc.

Lucas lies about who he is to be popular, because it's clear he doesn't relate to the jocks that much. But he's honest about that with his friends and he never lies to Max. He then helpfully lies to the jocks to save his friends, but again, not that bad an action considering it saved Dustin and Max.

Max is lying all over the place. To her therapist and all her friends about her depression. To Lucas about why they broke up. Even after she realizes she's a target, she lies about her feelings until she escapes her first Vecna attack and music sets her free. Then she's telling the truth again.

Interestingly, Erica is literally calling people liars this whole season. At the town meeting, and to the party when they are talking to the cops and the parents. Until she's given the truth by Dustin and then she joins them in their plans. She was right there for the song, but she seems immune to the lying disease.

Dustin starts season 4 by getting Suzie to help him lie about his grades by changing them. BUT other than that, it's only his growing antipathy toward Steve (he mocks and snaps at him a lot in favor of Eddie in 4) that feels false or forced. Instead, he's telling Eddie the truth. He's figuring out the truth about Vecna and the gates. He's telling Eddie's uncle as much truth as he can about Eddie being a hero. As the singer-he might not be affected?

Steve, Robin, Nancy, Hopper and Murray only tell little normal lies to find the bigger truth or protect the kids/their loved ones.

Eddie does not lie at all. He's basically a metal-loving, occasionally drug-dealing saint.

Yuri lies continuously.

The entire town is revved up into a panicked mob based on the charismatic but incorrect and secretly violent Jason. He believes his own lies: That he's the best, that Chrissy would never do drugs, that they were happy, that Eddie is a Satan worshiper causing the killings and killing him is the right thing to do.

Vecna's victims have all been keeping secrets that shame them. Lying by omission. Max with Billy, Chrissy with her mother's abuse and eating disorder, Fred with that still kind of mysterious car accident, Patrick with his father's abuse.

Anyway, the change from party honesty and "Friends don't lie" being a repeated refrain and season 4, which appears to be ALL about lying to each other, is pretty dramatic.

So something important changed the entire landscape around seasons 2 and 3 that we're all still looking for. Snowball or Cerebro? Mike was lying a lot in 3, even before the song, so I'm not sure.

Whatever it is, it leads us to season 5, the entire season of which feels like a giant lie to the audience, because none of it makes sense or seems real. The characters are wrong and jumbled. The plans feel off or repetitive. The stakes are missing. The conclusions are...inconclusive.

We're all missing something. In more cynical moments, I think it's decent storytelling. But mostly, I still believe it's a big part of the puzzle that could make this make sense.

[rgwriter]

If the false reality that is 5 has some truth mixed into it? The 6 7 month scenario makes more sense to me.

edited to add: I said 6 but March 29th 1986 was the field scene at the end of 4 to Nov 3-6 of 1986 makes 7 months (and 5 days). Still valid though. in fact... 7 is usually our magic number.

I can't stop thinking about this. And most of it relates to character's emotions and reactions as well as their living situations.

It wasn't 18 months.

Dustin's defiant, angry grief still feels very fresh. Andy and the teams antipathy for Lucas (calling him a traitor) and Lucas only just reminding him of Erica kicking him in the nuts feels like it would have happened the first time they went back to school together, not 18 months later.

The Wheeler's living situation hasn't reached the normal boiling point for crowded houses with two families yet. Karen and Ted's talk would have happened a month or two in, not over a year in. And Joyce would not have been okay taking advantage of the Wheelers for THAT long without them knowing a little bit of the truth of the situation. She's a very independent hard working single mother. She felt uncomfortable with a casserole, she wouldn't feel great about housing charity for 18 months.

Hopper's raggedy beard crazy mountain man look and constant flashbacks of Sara that he was starting to overcome in previous seasons-not to mention that bomb vest-makes it seem as if something bad has already happened to El and he's in denial. Nothing about his character felt right from the start of 5 on.

A Hawkins still reeling from "the earthquake" would be slower to react to being taken over. But after a year and a half, the town would definitely be done with being on lockdown and journalists would be on the case.

The Nancy, Jonathon, Steve thing would have come to a head a lot sooner. Steve isn't going to passive aggressively flirt for a year and a half without someone, Nancy, Robin or Jonathon (and it should have been Nancy) putting a stop to it or having a confrontation about it.

And speaking of, in One Way or Another, Nancy's book, it was only 2 months after the gates opened that while panicked and searching for Vecna, Nancy and Robin stumble onto a conspiracy having to do with poison chemicals and real estate.

Are you going to sit there and tell me it makes ANY sense that she wouldn't have been figuring out wtf the military was doing with all those supplies and a building in the UD after they took over her entire town and don't seem to have any idea that Vecna even exists? In a year and a half, she's just marking down crawl spots and running a radio station? Nancy f-ing Wheeler?

At the very least, as a favor to El, she might be attempting to discover everything she could about them and why they sent so much manpower just for one girl.

El is...very off as well. Part of me thinks she's participating almost entirely from the mindscape or in people's minds. She's hostile with Hopper when I don't think she would be anymore-that feels like his projection. She and Joyce have reverted to their season 1 relationship, though they've lived together and Joyce has treated her like a daughter.

She's basically crying on the rooftop with Mike and then warning him about reality in the tub and looking sad that he's not catching her vibe before she heads to the UD lab.

She's shocked to see Max but that's it. The El we know would be collapsing into her arms in tears because of the guilt she felt for not saving her in time.

In general, she's very negative this season. Either she already understands how this scenario is going to play out, or... I don't know. But nothing about her character felt right at all.

Will, on the other hand, is more positive than he's ever been. Hopeful (because I think he and Mike have been living in the basement and it was them watching movies on Halloween) mwtfdydg is real and it happened in a 6 month window after the painting and his fail of a love confession to El, followed by her pushing him away.

If they're not already poisoned from the UD air and in a mass hallucination, I say something happened to Mike or Will or both in Nov 1986 instead of 1987.

It would make sense for a move to be made a lot sooner than 18 months, since Vecna was in a big hurry to grab all his victims in 4 and the gates are already open. Why wait?

It's very possible at least one of Mike's parents dies (Karen and possibly even Holly) and for Will, it's possible something could happen to Joyce or Jonathon, leading to them being unconsciously complicit in creating a new scenario, as the builder and the storyteller, where everyone is okay and they're victorious. The only people they couldn't give moderately happy endings to were themselves.

[rgwriter]

Cyrano, Roxanne and Halley's Comet

Relating to:

-Cyrano trope ie The Painting

-Will mentioning Steve Martin in his coming out speech and Steve Martin starring in and producing the Cyrano movie Roxanne (1987)

-Halley's comet (1986) sticker in the WSQK van

So I just watched Roxanne for the first time in years, and what stood out to me this time was that Roxanne was an astronomy student there for the summer because she was trying to prove she'd discovered a comet.

The date she was waiting for to prove her theory?

"July 14th at 22:08:31 (10:08 pm) give or take 10 days."

Anyway this movie was filmed VERY shortly after the Halley's comet craze and was definitely cashing in on the renewed public interest in astronomy it caused.

Just thought it was interesting.

Bonus #1

Steve Martin starred or costarred in like 11 movies in the 1980s. One of them was Roxanne.

Another? Little Shop of Horrors.

The poster of which is in Will's room, and the movie that Tales from 85 is heavily dipping into as well ie carnivorous alien plant life.

Of potential interest- in that movie, the plant Audrey II arrived in the shop after another astronomical event. A total eclipse of the sun.

Bonus #2

If you take 10 days from the 14th it's July 4th, which could mean nothing.

[erikiara80]

"Only one of us was truly like him"

[rgwriter]

If a cg falls in the forest...

I believe wholeheartedly that the entirety of season 5 is off. That they're already in a loop of wrong, illusion and/or warped memories are at play, and there is a lot of evidence to back it up.

But the hardest part of this for me has always been that none of the characters ever seemed to catch the glitches. Lucas does wonder momentarily if they're being messed with, but he's quickly distracted from that with news that Max might be returning to her body.

What I'm talking about is Neo and the cat in the Matrix. The Truman Show with a falling spotlight. Dark City where the hero watches the buildings change shape. The Freddy/Inception signs that you're in a dream of it all.

You see where I'm going with this? No member of the party is the mythological Cassandra telling them something is wrong and not being believed.

Joyce, who notices magnets and follows up on unusual hunches, never seems to figure it out. Hopper the investigator and Murray and Nancy the journalists never figure it out. Jonathon the observant photographer never figures it out. Dustin the genius gets it all wrong. Mr. Clarke doesn't even flinch at the UD trip or the bad wormhole explanation and beanstalk plan. We've got a lot of smart people there who don't seem to notice that anything is wrong with their story at all--even when it is staring them right in the face.

The audience can see the signs. The character changes. The color changes. The fake monster battle and disturbing ending. There is absolutely something going on. But when the basement door closes at the end of episode 8, no other shoe has dropped, and we're left with ambiguity and confusion. For months. A confusion that wasn't cleared up with Tales at all. Only emphasized.

We do have at least 5 of them saying something doesn't make any sense multiple times, but they never follow up on that, and choose to believe the easiest conclusions they are given. (Holly does scream none of this is real, but that is in Henry's mind, so...)

Nancy in particular surprises me by not thinking for herself. She agrees and follows up on something Mike or Dustin says. On something Steve says. She remembers the UD lab for El and dresses like a candy striper to talk to her mom, but that and shooting things are all we get of her old intelligent and curious character. She and Joyce were the main go-tos for discovering the truth, but they are both pretty distracted and emotionally compromised, so we got nothing from them.

We have a few subtle signs that are never followed through on. El looks momentarily confused when she hops from her mindscape to the middle of the road while looking for Holly. She looks down at Kali's reflection in the mindscape and makes a subtle face that could be some sort of realization. She almost has a real moment with Hopper but then a roaring sound that is never explained draws them back into the action.

Mike seems distracted and makes a lot of his famous figuring something out faces, but other than some seriously odd behavior, particularly after shock jock, we don't have any idea what he's actually thinking or feeling.

Robin, the solver of the most puzzles through this series, is put directly in the visual path of the dial color change and the tower color change, both objects she should be extremely familiar with due to her job, and she doesn't react to either.

Murray's entire character is literally brilliant, paranoid, overly suspicious conspiracy theorist and he spends the entire season just smiling goofily and delivering things to the party. He barely reacts to Joyce's insane plan that makes no sense, except to mention they need some snacks. It's very out of character for him to be that oblivious.

Will's mysterious experience with Vecna changed him, but we have no idea what he saw so we can't establish the true reasons for his reactions. Was he shown the truth and warned of the outcome if he didn't follow the script? We don't know.

And that is the most frustrating part of this. I know it's true, I even believe there will be more content, BUT I can see why it might be difficult for others.

Because no character had a deja vu cat moment. No one noticed that the people behind him were on a loop. No one noticed the fifty million exit signs that kept appearing everywhere, or all The Wall references. No one even wondered why the military had a lab in the UD that kept needing to be restocked when they didn't seem to know about Vecna. It was just there because?

Nancy should have wondered about the military during all those crawls, that's all I'm saying. But they were all wearing blinders.

No one questioned the absence of characters--and not just the physical absence but the absence of mention, because no one ever said their names even though it would have fit the story for them to at least get a passing reference. Particularly Owens, Argyle, Suzi, the deputies in every season until 5, and Max's mother.

Don't get me started on the wormhole and those journals.

So yes, the people, the objects, the relationships and the physics of the entire season was completely off and wrong. But no one noticed except the audience. And you only saw it if you were really paying attention or watched it more than once.

And even if you have a 50 page list of things you saw that were wrong on the show (and we do) none of it is conclusive enough to explain what's happening.

Which has left the show open to accusations of queerbaiting, cash-grabbing, bad AI writing, just another big show with a bad ending etc.

It's why so many people have felt crazy for the last few months. Because we didn't have that one character who saw what we saw, and on bad days, that leaves the door open 3 inches for doubt.

[rgwriter]

Why it's weird-release schedules and madness

Let's just take a look at what their last 6 years have been like. Ignoring their writers writing or at least helping with some of these books that have come out about Dustin, Lucas, Nancy, Terry Ives etc. And the comics. And the games. They had delays with covid and the writer's strike, but they were obviously still very busy

2020-2021 they at least outlined 5 while finishing season 4 (but they probably wrote it, let's be honest)

2022 season 4 is released

2022-2023 they start work on Tales (with Shawn and everyone connected to it, they didn't just hand it off) And they have obviously been working on multiple seasons of it to have at least season 2 ready.

2023 Kate is working on TFS play while reporting to the brothers-they are very involved in that. It comes out at London's West End (in 2025 it comes out on Broadway)

2024 from January to December they are filming season 5. A year of filming with double the budget of season 4, which let's be honest, looked ten times better and made more sense than season 5. *Also, from September 2024 to Feb 2025-they are executive producers for the filming of The Buroughs. So at one point ST and TB are filming at exactly the same time in different locations.

2025 while editing, they take 5 months to executive produce SVBIGTH and then the steal your holidays to steal your joy release schedule of STs season 5 begins. They even take us to the theater.

2026- In January we get the horrible documentary that makes them look unprofessional and unprepared at best.

In Feb we get a teaser for Tales and the news they were filming TFS for Netflix

In March we get SVBIGTH which has toys related to ST in it but otherwise unclear connection.

In April we get Tales first two episodes in theaters for absolutely no reason, and a week later the whole show on Netflix, then less than a week after that an announcement we will get season 2 of Tales in "The Fall"

In May we not only have The Boroughs (ST but with senior citizens is how it's been described) but now there is also an interview with the brothers for the first time since the documentary came out and they gave that week of HORRIBLE interviews.

If TFS doesn't pop up tomorrow, June would make the most sense based on their schedule of dropping something to remind us of their existence every single month since the bad finale.

July, as we know, is the 10 year anniversary of the first season of Stranger Things. It's when the DVD set comes out. It's when certain merchandise and the script book will be available. A lot of things are happening in that month to solidify 5 as an actual season that really happened even though it was the worst and didn't answer any questions at all.

But now they're saying Tales 2 is coming in the Fall and I'm confused because in spite of the interviews, the characters were not acting like themselves. They were acting like idealized or larger than life versions of themselves through someone else's perspective. And there were several visual and behavioral references to season 5, in spite of it being set in season 2.5. All of that led me to believe it was part of cg. And I'll admit, all signs were pointing to July for a reveal. Now I have no idea what's going on.

But I do know something is. Because this monthly bs that's happening? It feels like a "Countdown" (name of Tales last episode). The entire world of Hawkins is wrong, and they're just barreling ahead anyway, not giving any direct answers or anyone time to catch their breath. Keeping everyone trapped in their world for an undisclosed amount of time without any solid hints it will actually lead anywhere in the end.

"None of this makes any g**da** sense."

Why push them out so fast if there isn't a reason for it? Cash grabs don't work like this. Watcher and merch fatigue is more likely, especially with the GA, if you don't give them time to miss something.

For us, the actors say let it go every time they have an interview or conference chat. But how can we stop obsessing if ST related content won't go away? lol

The marketing is weird and nothing makes sense. If they were trying to make us crazy? It worked. Good job.

[rgwriter]

Somebody gave El her perfect story

It struck me that the last scene of Tales before it flipped to the UD was a close up of El's face looking into the camera. I found that odd. Especially since they'd been giving Nikki her new character and were in her garage etc. It got me thinking about whose story this was. I've believed it was Will's or even Mike's...but as a thought experiment, what if it were El's?

There's no denying that things were really great for her in animated Hawkins.

Hopper was protective, but not too even though the lab JUST left, allowing her more freedom than he did in 2 or 3. Letting her take Mike to school every morning for 5 weeks. Letting her wander around town. And in the end, since he never discovered what happened, he even extended her curfew.

Max was always on her side, even though they wouldn't be friends until they bonded over stupid boys in 3. She even got in a fight with Lucas over them not giving El a choice, and she's the one who told Mike to take her to the winter festival. She had her back and always asked her what she thought they should do.

Mike was the almost too perfect boyfriend. Always staring at her dreamily and holding her hand. Waking up 30 minutes early every day to see her. Planning to take her to the arcade and the mall, which would never happen, and focused on her new experiences like cheese fries, and her welfare above anything else. He was also cautious of Hopper in a way he wasn't until 3 when Hopper threatened him (remember he screamed at him at the end of 2 and was incredibly disrespectful and mocking in 3). But the facial expressions and gestures he usually gave to Will, asking if he was okay, standing close to him and touching whenever possible, holding his hand in comfort, staring at him and apologizing without gaslighting etc? That he gave exclusively to El in Tales (apart from a small jealous about Nikki outburst) He still couldn't say he loved her, but he showed her, so she knew.

Will was happy and strong on his own instead of being connected to Mike's hip. Will the Wise was replaced by Will the paladin and future storyteller. He wanted to be the DM. He instantly made friends with Nikki, who could arguably be a more confident, female version of Mike. Most importantly, he looked pleased to see El and Mike snuggled together. He even broke rules and put himself in danger to get Mike's walkie talkie-at first just so El wouldn't worry about Mike. Not that he was ever outwardly jealous, or not close to El (though they barely had scenes together) but it felt different. Mike and Will didn't seem as necessary to each other's story for the very first time in ST. Instead, everything was El.

There was no lab or military chasing her. No references to her being a monster. Everyone asked for and listened to her opinion, and once when Mike didn't? He apologized instantly and promised to communicate better. And she was able to communicate that she didn't appreciate him acting like Papa well before season 4.

Nikki appreciated what she'd been through, empathized with her and included her in her birthday.

Her powers were off the charts. She tossed entire trees into food marts, ripped open monsters, caused a tornado inside a building from a distance which showed incredible control, and killed the queen while simultaneously closing the gate. All without really needing her batteries charged. In fact, no one ever mentioned it as being an issue.

She wasn't conflicted or complex. She didn't have trauma flashbacks like she did even in season 1. She wasn't dealing with the anger/love aspects of her powers. She was just sweet and cute and able to speak in complete sentences, adored by her father and boyfriend and incredibly powerful without consequence. There were no shades of gray in her character. She was the too good to be true super girl who giggled happily at the orange on her fingers while traumatizing an office building full of adults.

When you think about it, other than the plant monsters, that was kind of El's dream scenario. Accepted for who she was, loved and part of the party and a family. Mike all to herself.

It could be someone else's idealized version of her of course (looking at you guilty Mike and Mileven cheerleader Will) but either way it is interesting.

[rgwriter]

Season 2

Rewatching season 2 (yes again) to get ready for tomorrow and I don't care what anyone says, this is one of my favorite seasons. I could write an essay on Murray's speech about the curtain and everything in his house. Will and protective Mike going crazy together. Max accepting the risks with Lucas. Bob Newby, every scene. Will's acting. Even Dustin with Dart and the train tracks chat with Steve.

How can anyone not love season 2?

In fact, if I had to rank at this moment, it would be 2, 1, 4, 3, Almost every fan theory I've ever heard, and then 5 ( I think 1 and 4 might be close to a tie because while I adore that first season vibe, Max, Eddie and Robin weren't there yet)

[rgwriter]

The 6th or 7th Wall break

So the 4th wall is when the actor stares at you through the camera as if talking to you. We got so much of that in 5 it was ridiculous.

The 5th wall is when the actors and directors break character or appear to interact with their characters and creations. Like Monty Python and Holy Grail at the end. Like Deadpool referring to Ryan Reynolds, or the Freddy Kruger mockumentary horror. And...I think we've sort of had that with the Duffers being Vecna'd and Finn being weird etc.

The 6th wall is where you feel like you might be a subject instead of a spectator. Like there might be no difference between the fictional world and the real world. Like we're going a little crazy together.

The 7th wall break is a total shared reality, where you feel like the show has hacked your brain. "It was a 7"

It's been kind of quiet around ST cg lately, but now the promo for the animated show is making it "snow" with static, pulling out some 3D snowball fights and having Steve and Dustin crack our screens with that truck ride... It doesn't fit the little D&D campaign they've shown so far with the leaks and the first 2 episodes. If that was the way they'd been going they would have made the theater showing 80s style 3D complete with those silly glasses. (I really do wonder why they didn't do that...)

But it does fit cg and the continuation of the 6-7th wall break.

It's given me more hope than I've had in a while that there really is more to come.

[rgwriter]

Big Jonathon Clue?

You know what I thought of as soon as I saw this? Yes. The For Will mixtape. And the tape Jonathon played for Will with the Clash on it. And the tape Jonathon made for Will when he came back from the UD and was in the hospital. Technically, Jonathon was the deejay long before Robin came around. His music saved Will before in the UD (he kept singing it to himself)

And the fact that Charlie said in an interview that Jonathon helps his brother get something he wants, and then in season 5 they never actually spoke to each other once. (Unless he just meant he gave him his supportive hug after coming out...that seems pretty anti-climactic since he'd already said in 4 he supported him no matter what, but I guess it could be true)

To me? It goes along with The Fall t-shirt and that tweet the writer's sent ages ago, that I believe they mentioned WASN'T about a romantic couple? Maybe I'm remembering that incorrectly.

What if the tape is from Jonathon? What if it does have something to do with time loops and a sacrifice?

What if Vecna showed him Jonathon dying and that's why Will gave up? What if Jonathon helps Will get what/who he wants (Mike), by helping to set things right?

What if that's why Jonathon seems so suspiciously happy in the epilogue and that's why you never see the brothers having a one on one talk in season 5? (Seriously, why are they actively kept away from each other in the last season? It's weird when they were so canonically close and Will is going through so much.)

Just a thought. A sad thought. But there it is.

[rgwriter]

Did you realize? Not-so-fun facts

-Jonathon and Will never had a single conversation. Joyce never talked to Jonathon either. The guy all about family spent most of his time with Steve.

-Nancy never had a single conversation with Steve. She was irritated or tempted by his constant leaning and posturing, but instead she told Jonathon how she felt about Steve, and Jonathon told Steve while they were strolling on another planet. So badass Nancy didn't get the chance to have any closure with that boy she loved kissing in the school bathroom until Barb died and everything changed. Jonathon got that instead.

-Will and El, once again, never had a conversation with each other. Beyond, "Max." "I'm here, Will" etc. So this twin/parallel mutual love for Mike thing they'd been dealing with the entire series? it didn't matter. They didn't have time for it. They had too many new or returning cast members to waste their time on it.

-We never found out what Vecna showed Will. Or how Will survived the supposed death of Vecna and the "MF" Or if Will still had abilities, since he was irrevocably changed.

-El and Max never had a moment alone. Their friendship, and what El did to save her, and how she felt when she couldn't find her? That was never addressed. There wasn't time. She had to hang out with...Will and Vickie instead? (El never got to talk to anyone but Mike, Hopper and Kali really)

-Mike stopped having ideas and making plans after Sorcerer. Joyce had a plan. Lucas and Erica had plans. Steve and Dustin had a plan. Mike just stood there not touching Will and asking for a flare gun. So he wasn't the leader. He wasn't honest with Will or El about his feelings. And his flare gun didn't deliver the killing blow. In the end, he wasn't even a paladin, or a very good friend because he sent Will to Vallaki (still not over that)

Bonus facts: A few things that were missing. Owens. The deputies. Any explanation about why there was a lab in the UD without them knowing about Vecna or that they were in a wormhole...did they know they were supposed to be in a wormhole? Any explanation about why El was the only one they were interested in. Any explanation about how the townspeople were cool with being in a military quarantine for 18 months. Any explanation about how Hopper got his job back, how Ted and Karen survived and if the rest of the Turnbow family ever made it out of that barn.

Edited to add: Where did Argyle disappear to and why did no one mention him?

[sorafyr3]

Guys I had a thought.

"If a person wearing a blindfold picked the answers on a true or false quiz at random, so you know what score they would get?"

"50%."

"That's right!"

"The only way to get all the answers wrong is to know which answers are right."

???

Hello?? Is this thing on??

If you picked answers at random on a true or false quiz, you'd get 50% (at minimum).

If you had 3 years and $500 million to make 1 season of a show (a show which you have previously worked on and created from your bare hands and made 4 phenomenal seasons before this) you should (at minimum) make a mediocre show which has some bits of good writing, the same overarching themes and core messages, even if the entire thing is overall considered mid.

ARE WE SERIOUS GUYS 😭 C'MON

If season 5 was truly just 'mid', it would at least make sense and answer some questions.

Will is connected to the hivemind -> Will can tap into the hivemind -> Will can see through the demogorgons -> Will can control the demogorgons -> Will can control Vecna -> Will can control the Mindflayer -> Will dies when the hivemind is killed (the brain dies, the body dies)

Would have been the natural progression of this plotline, but instead, we got:

Will is connected to the hivemind -> Will can tap into the hivemind -> Will can see through the demogorgons -> Will can control the demogorgons -> Will can control Vecna -> Will is not connected to the hivemind anymore and is completely fine when Vecna and the Mindflayer are killed

???

Huh? But I thought Will was always connected to the hivemind? ("I don't think the connection was ever truly severed")

Okay another one but this time including a plot that has spanned across the whole show.

Just so we know: S1, S2, S3, S4, S5

Mike meets Eleven -> Mike helps Eleven -> Mike looks after and cares for El -> Mike kisses El -> Mike loses El -> Mike and Jane meet again after a long time -> Mike and Jane start dating -> Mike lies to Jane -> Mike and Jane have a fight and break up -> Mike doesn't understand what he has done wrong and doesn't apologise -> Jane kisses Mike -> Jane leaves town -> Mike and Jane are dating again -> Jane is lying to Mike -> Jane has a fight with Mike -> Jane asks Mike to tell her he loves her -> Mike refuses -> Jane leaves -> Mike regrets not telling Jane he loves her -> Mike receives external support to encourage him to tell Jane he loves her -> Jane almost dies/ is on her deathbed -> Mike tells Jane he loves her -> Jane does not find comfort in Mike's words -> Jane loses her fight (Max dies, Hawkins is split open) -> Mike and Jane do not talk for a while/ break up -> Jane is training to defeat Vecna -> Mike is living his normal life -> Mike and Jane talk about their future -> Jane says Mike cannot write the ending (does not support his interests) -> Mike is thinking idealistically about his future with Jane and the rest of the party -> Jane commits suicide -> Jane tells Mike she loves him -> Mike does not say it back -> Mike writes Jane's ending for her

???

This was the plot we got. The girl who was abused her whole life in a lab does not find true love and dies to have her story retold by her (ex?) boyfriend.

Seriously?? We couldn't do any better? Even as a Byler shipper, you could've put some effort into your "main" couple.

The natural progression of their plot could've been:

Mike meets Eleven -> Mike helps Eleven -> Mike looks after and cares for El -> Mike kisses El -> Mike loses El -> Mike and Jane meet again after a long time -> Mike and Jane start dating -> Mike lies to Jane -> Mike and Jane have a fight and break up -> Mike doesn't understand what he has done wrong and doesn't apologise -> Jane kisses Mike -> Jane leaves town -> Mike and Jane are dating again -> Jane is lying to Mike -> Jane has a fight with Mike -> Jane asks Mike to tell her he loves her -> Mike refuses -> Jane leaves -> Mike regrets not telling Jane he loves her -> Mike receives external support to encourage him to tell Jane he loves her -> Jane almost dies/ is on her deathbed -> Mike tells Jane he loves her -> Jane does not find comfort in Mike's words -> Jane loses her fight (Max dies, Hawkins is split open) -> Mike and Jane do not talk for a while/ break up -> Jane is training to defeat Vecna -> Mike is living his normal life -> Mike and Jane talk about their future -> Mike apologises for how he's treated Jane -> Jane apologises for lying to Mike -> Mike tries to understand her and make the relationship work -> Jane tells Mike he is her good friend but she needs to focus on training and stopping Vecna -> Mike understand Jane -> They break up but agree to be friends because they understand each other better as friends

Or it could even be: Mike and Jane talk about their future -> Mike apologises for how he's treated Jane -> Jane apologises for lying to Mike -> They agree to stop lying to each other and be honest -> Mike tells Jane he loves her -> Jane is about to commit suicide -> Mike convinces Jane not to -> Mike tells Jane he loves her -> It works -> They live happily ever after

See how easy that was? In less than 10 minutes I came up with 2 ways Mileven could've had a satisfactory conclusion.

It is not that hard to make a satisfying conclusion to a plot. Sure, there will always be some plot holes but your main plot shouldn't have any plot holes.

"50%."

Let's talk about Byler. Specifically the romance tropes used with Byler. A post by @miwiheroes here talks about the romance tropes used with Byler in detail, feel free to check it out, it's really good <3 I'll be referring to it here, as well as this which is a link to the Stranger Things shipping wiki (which I don't think is canon and is made by fans so please take this with a grain of salt).

Playing Cyrano

First Girl Wins

Interruptions (x4)

A Couple With Emotional Wounds

A Shared Suffering

Childhood Friends

Childhood Friend Romance

Devoted to You

Fan-Preferred Couple

First Friend

Friends to Lovers

Held Gaze

Homoerotic Subtext

Hurt Comfort

I Want My Beloved to Be Happy

I Will Find You

Incompatible Orientation

Longing Look

No Romantic Resolution

Oblivious to Love

One Head Taller

Ship Tease

Sibling Triangle

True Companions

Unbroken Vigil

Undying Loyalty

Unrequited Love

You Are Better Than You Think You Are

You Are Not Alone

29 tropes. 29 romantic tropes used in the context of Byler. Not 1, not 5, not even 10, 29 TROPES, THAT'S ALMOST 30 FOR CRYING OUT LOUD.

"The only way to get all the answers wrong is to know which answers are right."

The only way to create a real-life honest to God trash excuse of a season is to know how to make the best season of television ever and choose to pick all the bad (wrong) options (answers).

Okay, let's do this one more time.

Just so we know: S1, S2, S3, S4, S5

Will and Mike are childhood best friends -> Will cannot lie to Mike about his dice roll -> Will goes missing -> Mike is distraught -> Mike is paralleled to Will's mother -> Mike is able to recognise Will's breathing -> Mike insists Will is alive -> Will comes back -> Mike treats Will like an equal -> Mike makes Will feel safe -> Will tells Mike about his 'now-memories' -> Mike is able to pull Will out of his episodes with his voice (the arcade) & touch (Halloween) -> Will gets possessed -> Mike refuses to leave Will's side for days -> Mike stays With Will in the hospital -> Will only remembers his mother and Mike -> Mike is able to pull Will out of his possession with his voice -> Will is able to communicate with the party using Morse code -> Will is able to make a plan to save the party from the Mindflayer -> Mike makes a plan to save Will from the Mindflayer -> Mike saves Will from the Mindflayer -> Mike is sidelining Will for his relationship -> Will and Mike's relationship is strained -> Mike and Will have a fight -> Will gets upset and leaves -> Mike begs him not to leave -> Will goes to his safe space -> Will destroys his safe space -> Mike bikes over in the rain to apologise to Will -> He finds Will with his safe space destroyed -> Mike focuses less on his relationship and focuses more on his friendships -> Will leaves town -> Mike and Will don't talk consistently for 185 days -> Mike doesn't greet Will properly when he comes to visit -> Mike goes on a date with his girlfriend -> Will doesn't talk much -> Mike tells Will he 'sabotaged the whole day' -> Mike is upset because Will is upset -> Will calls Mike out on his behaviour -> Mike is defensive -> Mike pauses the conversation for later -> Mike has a fight with his girlfriend -> Mike approaches Will -> Mike apologises for his behaviour -> Mike has a heartfelt conversation with Will -> Mike and Will's friendship is stronger -> Mike and Will are interrupted -> Mike and Will have another heartfelt conversation -> They are interrupted again -> Mike confides his insecurities about his relationship to Will -> Will encourages Mike to tell her he loves her -> Will uses his own feelings to encourage Mike -> Mike is able to say 'I love you' to his girlfriend -> Mike's relationship worsens -> Mike and his girlfriend are not on speaking terms -> Mike and Will have a heartfelt conversation -> They are interrupted again -> They stand out on the field together (with the other couples) -> Mike and Will live together -> Mike pulls Will out of one of his early episodes -> Mike is concerned about Will -> Will asks what the signals for flirting are -> Will tries to flirt with Mike -> Mike doesn't reciprocate -> Will is disheartened -> Will is shown traumatic flashbacks -> Mike is in danger -> Will remembers memories of Mike and his family -> Will gains powers to save Mike's life -> Mike is ecstatic -> Mike yaps to everyone about Will's powers -> Will uses his powers again -> Will goes into a coma -> Will is tormented by visions -> Will wakes up -> Will comes out to everyone -> Mike is hopeful -> Will says he has gotten over Mike -> Mike is sad -> Mike apologises to Will for not being their for him -> Will says it isn't his fault -> Will fights Vecna -> Mike leaves Will to fight the Mindflayer -> They win -> Mike mourns his dead girlfriend for 5 minutes -> Mike imagines a future for Will where he meets a guy -> the end

Guys please tell me you see what I'm trying to say 😭 because I don't want to try and come up with 1726373637299272829 ways they could've closed the Byler storyline satisfactorily.

The Duffers knew the only way to make sure nobody ever half-asses queer representation in mainstream media ever again is to pick all the wrong answers and then reveal they had the mark scheme the whole time.

"The only way to get all the answers wrong is to know which answers are right."

All the answers wrong = Mileven

Know which answers are right = Byler

The only way to make Stranger Things end so badly is by picking all the wrong answers (choosing to ignore Byler and romanticise Mileven) and the only way they were able to do that was because they knew all the right answers (Byler).

I wanna call this Spidermangate because why not <33

Spidermangate <33

Anyways this took too long to type and I had a jumpscare where I thought I didn't save this whole thing and almost had a heart attack <33

A special shout out to my boy Mike Wheeler 💛💙 HAPPY BIRTHDAY MY POOKIE ILYSM AND I'M SO HAPPY YOU'VE BEEN WITH WILL FOR SO LONG AND I'M SO HAPPY YOU'RE HAPPY AND OUT OF THE CLOSET AND LIVING YOUR DREAM LIFE WITH WILL 🎉🎉🎉 💛💙

Just a reminder that this is all for fun, so please don't take this too seriously 💛💙

Peace out 🫰

[rgwriter]

This is absolutely correct. They took a rich story with a couple of different paths for the ending and chose...option wtf this is completely wrong and makes no sense.

[thatgirlalt]

Operation Cycle-Break: Final Boss Three Keys – Cave Memories & Breaking the Time-Loop

this took me ages ohmygod. it's so worth it though.

Will the three MCs please stand up?

Mike: “I guess it’s up to us again.” Will: “It always is, isn’t it?”

Will: “Don’t tell the others. They wouldn’t understand.” Mike: “El would.”

Mike: “Okay, what don’t I understand?” El: “I am different.”

“If you see what he sees, if you feel what he feels, maybe we’ll know how to stop him.”

Fittingly broken up into four gates parts:

The Three Keys

From one Lettergate to another

Cave memories & the three Birthdaygates

Breaking the Time-Loop

CW: this post will allude to CSA and CA implied within ST. Please read with care. <3

The Three Keys

To avoid being repetitive, I will try to keep this recap as brief as possible!

Henry – 001 – Mr. Whatsit – Vecna, each moniker a representation of the internal struggle each of our three main characters has to overcome in order to resolve their respective conflicts within Stranger Things. And each representation is how our three MCs can relate to and therefore humanize Vecna.

You see, Vecna is an amalgamation of Mike’s fears (Mr. Whatsit), Will’s shame (Henry), and El’s alienation (001), and Vecna is the representation and dark reflection of what it looks like to have history repeat itself again and again.

Because, as of right now, not only do Mike, Will, and El embody the internal struggles that Vecna’s monikers suggest, they succumb to them in the finale. Mike succumbs to his fear, runs away from his feelings, shrouds himself in ignorance, and lives out a lie. Will succumbs to his shame, basically disappearing from the narrative (has just enough screentime to not make it super suspicious to a casual viewer), and in the Storyteller’s “ending” for him, Will is removed (and seemingly forgotten) from Hawkins altogether. And El succumbs to her alienation; thinking she will always be perceived as a monster and never belong anywhere, believing there will never be a stop to the cycle of abuse, ends herself. It’s truly so very sad.

The gate of Hell opens at the end of s4, marking Vecna’s official return to Hawkins. The same gate, that when it originally opens all the way back in 1x01, unlocks a certain fear in Mike, uncovers a certain wound in Will, with El at the center, a result of her experimentation, being the one to open the gate. So, just as the gate re-opens and Vecna makes his return, our three main characters are forced to make their own return to face him. Which means facing the things they hate and fear most about themselves, and ideally overcome them.

Just as there are three doors, I believe there are three keys in El, Will and Mike. Three characters that have lived their own unique Henry – 001 – Mr. Whatsit – Vecna experiences and can therefore relate to, understand and humanize him and stop the time-loop (which is the cycle of abuse/violence and history repeating itself) for good.

How do I suggest our three MCs achieve this? Well, it begins with facing Vecna. Which means Mike facing the root of his fears, Will facing the root of his shame, and El facing the root of her alienation. Which, you guessed it, you could call their cave memories. But let’s hold off on that for now.

While El and Will, from what we’ve seen, have both tried to sympathize and empathize with Vecna as they have gone through their own similar traumas as Vecna’s, Mike is the most compelled to take Vecna at face value, not seek out the truth, and insist that he is just a monster. Just as Mike, who is the representative of the party, can’t humanize Vecna, neither can El and Will believe they can be fully accepted, embraced, understood, and loved by Mike because of their respective connections to Vecna.

From one Lettergate to another

Mike needs to embrace El, just as the rest of the party has. And there’s a reason the rest of the party has been able to embrace El, when Mike has had a wall up with her. The thing is, Mike can mask his difference with his privilege, most of the rest of the party cannot. As @cara-ti-amo effectively puts it: comphet is Mike’s sword, his privilege his shield.

When El and Mike put expectations and a label to their relationship to seek a sense of normalcy, is it any wonder why Mike all of a sudden can’t seem to embrace and understand El anymore? El who represents the magic of childhood, embracing difference, queerness. All of a sudden when Mike seeks out normalcy with her, he can no longer understand her, interesting that is. Because with that, Mike seemingly is the only person of their friends that isn’t different like her.

Let’s break it down, Dustin has a rare medical condition and is from a “broken home”. Lucas is Black in smalltown America. Max is a young woman and a child of abuse. Will is queer, poor, from a broken home and a child of abuse. El is also a child of abuse and has special abilities deeming her, too, a “freak”. The other members can’t “mask” their difference like Mike has chosen to.

He was the first to humanize and understand her until he started seeking out normalcy in her. So, it’s no wonder that, out of everyone, Mike has the hardest time understanding El once he starts pressuring himself to seek out normalcy in a character that is meant to represent difference. Mike can’t embrace El because he hasn’t tried to understand, embrace, and accept what makes himself different. He hasn’t embraced his queerness. There it is. Btw, I really like this post from @sunflowhoops, breaking down the party members respective relationships with El and how they have embraced her vs. Mike.

It’s no doubt that a big part in breaking the time-loop is Mike needing to confess, truly this time. It will take the first person to really humanize El to understand and embrace her once more. Which means embracing what’s different; embracing his “magic of childhood”, his queerness.

He will have to be honest and honour the first rule of friendship he ever teaches her: “friends don’t lie”. By being honest with her and admitting his own difference, he can embrace her in the way he was always meant to, before they conformed to societal pressures and sought out normalcy in each other, that is still a deep and profound love, just not a romantic one.

With that, El can let go of her insecurities and her alienation. She can feel like she belongs again, because with Mike’s honesty, she will realize it was not anything about herself that was unlovable or monstrous. It was always Mike’s heart just not belonging to her, not in the way she sought at first, but in the way that makes the most sense now.

I really see Mike’s true confession to El reminiscing a scene from s1, before Mike and El ever felt any pressure to be a couple because of what Lucas and Nancy would suggest with Mike or what a year in a cabin with nothing but old romance films to consume with El.

I see something reminiscent of this scene:

"I don't know why I didn't just tell you." "Mike. I understand."

Since there is inevitably another confession on the horizon regarding Mike and Will's feelings, just based on dialogue throughout the show, either with his confession to El or his confession to Will, I reckon Mike will use these words specifically, “I’m different, too”.

If anybody would understand the desire for “normalcy” from her life of being alienated, it would be our most empathetic El. Surely, Will would also understand what Mike is inferring since his coming out scene uses those same words.

But just as we speculate about one lettergate, I think it’s important to note there is another lettergate on the table here. A letter that’s been read by one, but was meant for two. A letter that was also meant for Mike and a letter that could very well lead Mike out of his own cave. Hopper’s letter to El and Mike.

Hopper’s letter, as far as we’re aware, was only read by El, but I think it would do a world of good if Mike also got his hands on it. By reading it, Mike would understand his own internal struggle, his own Survivor’s guilt, and why the truth is so painful but necessary to face. He would understand the dangers of being stuck in a cave for so long, after his own time in Camazotz.

Being stuck in a cave is not much different from being in the Upside Down. It is devoid of any emotion, literally the Upside Down is devoid of water (which is synonymous with feelings, vulnerability, truth, purification, and transformation). By putting walls up around you and closing yourself off because you don’t want to get hurt, you don’t get to feel anything at all really, except fear which just breeds hate and self-loathing.

When you’re so afraid to be open (“keep the door open three inches”; just enough to allow yourself to be seen) because you don’t want to get hurt, you don’t allow yourself to be open to anything, which includes feelings of connection, trust, joy, love, and pride in oneself.

Those are the lessons I think Mike could get out of reading Hop’s letter and those lessons would help him in escaping his own cave.

The Cave Memories

El

I think, to some extent, El has already experienced revisiting her own cave memory when she was in Nina; when she regained her Massacre at Hawkins Lab memories, albeit how suspicious and likely tampered those memories are. 001 and El share much of the same root of their alienation. Their shared experience at the lab, being used, degraded to weapons of destruction that have made them feel monstrous, like they can never escape their alienation and never belong anywhere properly.

It is the whole thematic narrative of The Lost Sister episode and much of El’s storyline in general, that El resists the cycle of violence and doesn’t give in to Kali’s insistence on revenge. No doubt, I interpret this as foreshadowing that El will indeed be one of the three keys in breaking the cycle altogether, rather the humanization of El. It is El finding reclamation in her Monster vs. Superhero conflict. It is El’s greatest superpower, realizing her difference is a gift (not a curse), and using her difference as a means to empower her humanity.

I’ll be interested to see in what ways the Nina Massacre memories were tampered with. I imagine 001 has memories from the lab he, too, feels like he can never come back from. Meaning he thinks he can never truly be humanized, normalized, or accepted after his time there. 001’s memories are as mumble-jumbled and unreliable as any.

Mike

Something that haunts Mike all throughout ST is his Survivor’s guilt. We see Mike going through this when Will originally goes missing, again when El sacrifices herself, when he almost loses Will again to the Mind Flayer. That boy is hellbent on never losing Will a second time in s2. I would imagine, to some extent, he also experiences it when El leaves for Nina, not knowing if she will ever return.

The following will be quite speculative based on extensive readings I have done focused on Will’s trauma and Mike’s adeptness of caring for Will and El, who he recognizes are both traumatized children of abuse [here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here]. I suspect Mike likely witnessed something happen to Will (and this ties in with birthdaygate) which is the root of his Survivor’s guilt.

I believe this could reveal to us why Mr. Whatsit, who is a reflection of Mike, desperately wants to save the children from the monsters in Hawkins, even if it requires concealing the ugly truth of what that really means. With that, I do believe Mike and Mr. Whatsit share the same root of their fear when it comes to facing their feelings and their truth.

By that I mean, there is evidence to suggest that Henry witnessed something happen to his own childhood best friend. If you subscribe to Bobgate, let’s say his “childhood best friend” is Bob Newby. It’s no mystery that Bob’s recounting of Mr. Baldo alludes to his own ca. Mr. Baldo would “come to [Bob] every night in his sleep” and Bob would need his mother to stay with him until he fell asleep to evade Mr. Baldo.

Prior to the events of The First Shadow, Bob’s mother left and ran away with another man. @cara-ti-amo theorizes that Bob could have been experiencing abuse by his father and my own take is Henry was, to some extent, witness to this at some point. That would explain why, in The First Shadow, Henry specifically targets Bob’s father, attempting to kill him. I don’t know what other explanation there would be to this (in the “I don’t believe in coincidences” show) besides Henry using his abilities to "play god" for the greater good.

I do believe Mike shares the same root of his fear which is the root of his Survivor’s guilt. Mike just wants to be a hero and his greatest fear is feeling useless, being unneeded and unable to protect the ones he loves most. This is why the show makes it a point to depict Mike always “at the scene of the crime”. It’s why bad things seem to always happen around him, affecting his loved ones, but never him directly, and why Will is often perceived as the victim and Mike the helpless bystander. It’s his worst fear coming to life again and again.

From one Birthdaygate to another

Will

Finally, with Will’s cave memory, there is a shared root of Will’s shame and Henry’s. I would imagine this would be the same event of Mike’s cave origins. And, yes, I think this has to do with the clown cake, Will’s fear of clowns, the clown and Big Top references and imagery in s2 and s3, the Big Top circus tent as a supposed leaked s5 set. (The Big Top in s3 was a house of mirrors, mind you. It begs the question, what kind of self-reflection and transformation could one face inside?). And why from Will’s perspective the Demogorgon and Vecna are depicted as especially predatory, they are a reflection of his worst shame and repressed trauma coming to the surface.

As @nightnut pointed out, birthdaygate is coming.

This shame and trauma are undoubtedly rooted in Lonnie’s abuse, whose actor was at the table read for s4 and Noah said in s5 press will have a big influence on Will’s arc in the final season. I can only theorize based on context clues that, like Henry, Will had something especially traumatic happen to him on/around his 8th birthday. Both of Will and Henry’s “first shadow”.

This would be the same root of their shame that then allows them to be revisited by the shadow four years later. If my suspicions are true and something happens on/around Will’s 8th birthday, that would just so happen to be the same year that Henry gets banished to the Abyss and the first gate opens in Hawkins, 1979. As established, when a gate opens, it largely represents a wound being opened, revealed, uncovered.

What’s more, Henry gets revisited by the shadow four years from his original encounter with it, November 6, 1959, when he is twelve. And wouldn’t you know it; Will gets reminded of his own shadow on that fateful November 6, 1983 night when he shares a look with Mike, four years from 1979, when he is also twelve years old. The gate re-opens. Bobgate part fifteen for more on Henry's cave memory.

As I said in the last part, in terms of Stranger Things lore, the time-loop goes as far back as the Silent Generation and the G.I. Generation, which includes Martin Brenner and Henry Creel’s parents. Which leads me to, we don’t just have one birthdaygate (Will), we don’t just have two birthdaygates (Henry), we have three birthdaygates!

Even, ever the antagonist, Brenner had an especially traumatic event happen on a birthday of his. I’m compelled to believe this only reiterates the emphasis the show has put on Generational trauma, the cycles of abuse, and history repeating itself and what this means for breaking the time-loop.

Breaking the Time-Loop

The idea of generational trauma, history repeating itself and children of the new generation feeling defenseless against abuse and therefore helpless in breaking cycles, is something that is ingrained in the imagery and dialogue of the show since its inception.

This motif is reinforced repeatedly through the course of the show. As recently as s5, when, in one instance, Holly, Mike’s stand-in mind you, feels guilty when she is unable to defend or save her mother and Max, using the words “I just stood there". I reckon this is something that will be revisited with Mike.

Again, in s5, when Will tries to empathize with Henry in the final battle, “you were just a kid. A kid like me, and it used you”.

We see another instance of this motif when El also tries to empathize with Vecna in 4x09 in the final battle of that season. “I know what he did to you”. Certainly, El has some idea of the extent of Brenner’s abuse with Henry, but that would be only one out of the three keys.

We get a lot of imagery around adults/parents destroying childhood innocence, as early as s1. When El is seeking out the supernatural in the lab and encounters the Demogorgon, she sees the creature eating its own eggs, consuming its babies.

In s3, Will destroys his symbolic “magic of childhood”, Castle Byers, with a baseball bat. A baseball bat, as we know is a symbol of conformity, but it’s also the sport Lonnie tried to force on Will. Therefore, essentially Will’s “childhood innocence” is destroyed by something associated with Lonnie’s abuse. If anyone is guilty of ruining childhood innocence, it’s absolutely Lonnie.

Just like Billy and his father, Neil. When El is seeking out literally “The Source” of the Mind Flayer in s3, she must go through memories of Billy’s childhood innocence being broken down by his father’s abuse. Which also includes imagery that associates baseball with Billy’s abuse.

It’s not lost on me too, that the teased episodes titles for s3 were meant to be 3x05 “The Source” followed by 3x06 “The Birthday”. Which is just an insane thing to overlook. But yes, with that, I think “The Source” of the Mind Flayer is quite obviously child abuse/trauma. Which, in Will and Henry’s case, is most likely associated with “The Birthday”.

We see three instances of scenes with Victor Creel that are juxtaposed with imagery of a burning baby. And my suspicions wouldn’t be raised around Victor Creel, if it weren’t for the burning baby imagery and these other few images surrounding him.

There’s a reason why a lot of father figures in the show are veterans or participants in wars. It’s not just an easy way to build character background. It is, in and of itself, a reference to history and cycles of violence repeating themselves. It is a direct commentary on each generations’ repeated obsession with power, control, and conquest.

We have Captain Brenner, conducting his own endeavors with the Philadelphia Experiment and U.S.S. Eldridge during WWII, resulting in his obsession being passed on to Martin Brenner. It’s Victor Creel’s inability or refusal to process his own PTSD from WWII, becoming an alcoholic, and I suspect abusive, father to Henry. It’s Virginia’s own ca effecting the way she raises Henry. It’s Hopper’s belief that his time in the Vietnam War cursed him and he passed on that curse to his daughter, killing her.

It is abuse and violence continuously bleeding from one generation to another, from parent to child.

Victor and Virginia to Henry (burning baby).

Neil to Billy (the scene of El encountering the Demogorgon in the void eating its young is so, so similar to the scene in which El finds Billy in the void when he sacrifices Heather to the Mind Flayer. see below).

Lonnie to Will (destroying Castle Byers with a baseball bat, for one).

It’s an innocent child losing a parent to violence (El and Terry).

It’s a child being trapped in a closet because the generation in power says it's not safe for you otherwise (Mike).

So, this is what I mean when I say the resolution of this story is absolutely dependent on the three keys' (El, Mike, and Will) ability to break the time-loop, break the cycle. Breaking the time-loop is "defeating" Vecna because Vecna, at his core, is history, the cycle of violence, repeating itself.

To defeat Vecna is to take time to understand and humanize him. Remember, Vecna is an amalgamation of our three MCs greatest fear, shame, alienation; an amalgamation of what El, Mike, and Will are most afraid of in themselves. "It's like he only sees the darkness in us" [4x09].

Since Vecna is an amalgamation of all of these things, again I ask, what could be the thing to defeat that? It's revisiting their own cave memories with care, understanding what makes them so afraid and why that is, it's not giving into the darkness and instead embracing their "magic of childhood" once more. It is truth defeating lies (Mike); it is superhero defeating monster (El), and it is love defeating fear (Will); it is humanity over cruelty.

Are our three MCs doomed to make the same mistakes as the generations before them, thus repeating the time-loop?

I, for one, believe there is always still time to re-write history.

Thank you for reading!

Operation Cycle-Break parts: [one, two, three, four]

[rgwriter]

The Alienation Effect

I saw someone mention this on TikTok today and it just clicked for me.

This is a way of filming that disrupts emotional immersion to take people out of the story and make them think as well as making them feel...strange. It's an actual film making decision that is supposed to feel wrong. Everything about it.

Movies from The Truman Show to The Shining have used this effect to jar people into thinking something was very very off.

Examples of this effect are fourth wall breaking -we got that a lot.

Sound stage effect- How many times have we ranted about how fake everything looked for all the money they had on hand? Especially the red mind location for Max (which was really realistic in 4) and the Abyss.

Also, there were 2 scenes we got to see before the show came out that I will admit to believing were actually fake at the time. Lucas at Max's bedside telling her they needed the whole party and Joyce's idea at the radio station with everyone staring at her. Now I LOVE Lumax and usually can't wait for their scenes, but the lighting was so strange I didn't really get to melt into that moment. I remember sobbing in season 4 (which I'd watched again days before with the same reaction) and feeling oddly distant during that scene. I hated feeling that.

And just everything about the Joyce scene from the lighting to the words coming out of her mouth made me feel like it was a parody.

Also the play aspect of it all. The actual memory stage. The red curtains framing Henry. The way the Mac Z gate felt like a theater stage. The way the Abyss felt like a sound stage. Complete with harsh lighting.

The red dial and all the editing missteps (Mike walking up the tower twice and then disappearing) might also fit into this category.

Multi-actor casting-- Hello, Holly! No, she's not a different actor in every scene, but was she recast and aged up specifically to start this alienation effect train rolling? Especially since we got to hear her parents fighting over not knowing how old she actually was, as if to specifically draw attention to the change.

Also? She was referenced as Mike a lot, and she did take over a large amount of his role. Yet another way this works with this particular filming style.

Even, in a way, having Akers be the same actor that plays stage Brenner, and having Dr. Kay made to look like Brenner felt like it was on purpose.

Narrative Placards that distract--The giant yellow sign with no words on it comes to mind.

Songs as mood interruptions -I'm sorry. But Purple Rain suddenly blasting during that Mac Z scene? Completely threw me off. I get it. Purple and Rain. I never meant to cause you pain. Lyrically and symbolically you can make it fit. But it's mf-ing Prince, and El and Mike do NOT have a Prince vibe. At. All. If they'd played Never Surrender it would fit. Mike was literally begging for more time and it was their kissing song in season 3. But no. They chose Prince. I don't know about anyone else, but as a Prince fan from way back, it tossed me even further out of the goodbye scene.

Fragmentation, specifically time jumping --we start 18 months in the future and we end 18 months in the future. Two huge time jumps that don't allow the audience to emotionally engage with the stakes of a town initially being quarantined or the after effects of the party killing Vecna (are the kids okay? Does Will have any lingering powers? Where is the military? How did Hopper get his job back? etc)

I can only come to the conclusion that we have no connection to this ending on purpose.

No matter how emotionally cathartic that roof scene was for the actors? I couldn't get lost in it.

No matter how sweet the last D&D game was and the I Believe chant? I kept waiting for something else to happen.

I could feel the actor's emotions instead of the characters. Which shouldn't have happened.

The only thing this woman said that was bad was that, usually, movies that seriously commit to this effect just leave you there. Hanging in unsatisfied limbo forever with the characters. Ugh.

But the Truman show didn't. I mean, in so much as he escaped, and we're pretty sure that girl is going to be waiting for him to help him experience regular life and maybe get him compensated for that long acting job so he can finally retire to Fiji.

And I don't think ST will remain in limbo either. I think she's right to point out that Byler is one of the only ways they can reboot back into the real story, instead of the horrible place they sent us to this season. It would make the biggest splash, and make all the pain worth it for some and shock the bleep out of everyone else.