twinnings

20+ || she/her || acearo || Currently marinating the new Black Butler updates *will be back*

[scliffe]

Debated whether to talk about this or not but some time ago I read this post regarding the Real Ciel Mastermind Theory/RCMT; [thank you to the person who sent me the link!] and as much as I appreciate the details to the theory I have to say that… I hope it’s not true;;; mainly because it doesn’t appeal to me emotionally.

Personally, I think it would be more interesting if our Ciel is forced to battle the twin brother that he loved—and still loves even now—instead of a yandere twin brother who had betrayed him from the start. The one he’s fighting with currently seems no better than an unfeeling zombie—a lifeless thing wearing the same face and having the same memories and maybe some desires but not the same feelings—but I wish to see perhaps some emotional turmoil for our Ciel to go through with re-killing his brother; I think it would be interesting!

Of course; not that our Ciel ever has any real choice since the start—R!Ciel requires the sacrifices of countless lives in order to sustain his; he is dead, he will eventually die again and there is no point in delaying the inevitable—Ciel knows what he must do as the Queen’s watchdog and as a Phantomhive, but I want it to be somewhat—at least a little—difficult and melancholic for him to pull the trigger anyway.

R!Ciel being the mastermind of the Phantomhive massacre would of course carry a different kind of pain and anguish for our Ciel, but the dilemma it presents would only be a repetition of the Red Butler arc—Ciel having to kill or bring to justice an evil family member. Instead, it removes the moral greyness of Ciel stealing his brother’s identity—because his brother had already betrayed him first and never deserved the title of the heir anyway. It also feels a little cliche to me—the underdog youngest son turns out to be the better heir while the star eldest child turns out to be a disappointment.

For my part; I tend to think that R!Ciel is often judged way more harshly by the readers in comparison to our Ciel or even Sebastian; especially in regard to his outright hostility towards Sebastian—which I honestly think makes perfect sense since Sebastian… ate him and played doll with his corpse in front of his traumatized little twin brother?

And I understand that the Bizarre Dolls are soulless since they could be revived even after their souls were collected by a grim reaper or eaten by a demon; but I still also sort of hope that part of R!Ciel’s “feelings” for his twin brother would still remain in him after all.

I love my little twins; I am terribly excited for their confrontation and showdown—and I don’t wish for it to be quite as black-and-white as Ciel killing the “evil mastermind” who caused the death of his whole family; I hope to see Ciel kills his beloved brother; and we know that Ciel blamed himself for Sebastian taking his brother’s soul back then—but this time he will be directly responsible for R!Ciel’s second death. So I wish that Yana will instead, put emphasis on how close they used to be and how deeply they loved each other—as well as how unfair it was that their innocence were ripped apart in such a brutal way. I want neither of them to be responsible for what befell themselves.

[snakiesblog]

I used to hate the theory until I found an interpretation I liked but I like the twin while other people hate him. I don't think Sebastian had his feelings hurt and that's how servants were treated back then so he might have a bit of Undertaker or someone else in him.

I think while the more advanced bizarre dolls are similar to who they previously were, they aren't the same. That's the point of places like FOL because they're missing an important component: their soul. Like, if Doll hadn't known Snake or had him cut from her memories then she most likely wouldn't have cared he died.

Anyway, I think r!Ciel did have a limerence for his brother or something and could be involved in the incident in some way. However, I don't think it's as simple as labeling him as a yandere.

[scliffe]

I sort of interpreted FOL differently; the way Doll’s grief over Snake’s death won over her resentment towards the Phantomhives is such a humane behavior; she’s overcome with emotions. It’s such a huge improvement from Agares; who in the Weston arc seems to be Undertaker’s best creation at the time. To me; this shows that the bizarre dolls are no longer truly “heartless” beings; and they may continue to evolve until they truly think and feel like living human beings.

Assuming that Undertaker is constantly experimenting with other dolls in order to bring R!Ciel back to life entirely, if Doll can have “human” emotions, the same must hold true for R!Ciel. Undertaker deliberately carried R!Ciel around to observe his brother; and this seems to be the key on unlocking R!Ciel’s “yearning”—basically my theory is R!Ciel then evolved from being a mindless zombie into having a mind of his own due to his yearning to be with his brother. I have no real opinion on whether any romantic feelings are involved; but I do desperately want the twins to still love each other deep down.

Now; as for how the lack of soul actually affects them—I’m also not sure which direction Yana will be going. I understand the idea that the “soul” is what makes a human truly “human”; but I also think it will be more interesting if it turns out that there is very little difference between these soulless beings and living humans. Sebastian himself is a soulless being, and there are times where we as readers are left to ponder on how he thinks and feels—but people are way more willing to romanticize Sebastian in comparison to R!Ciel and the bizarre dolls….

Either way; perhaps we’ll receive some answers in the Brighton arc, and I’m sure that whichever route Yana decides will be the best. Part of me hopes that she can leave that bit a little open-ended so we’ll never be able to truly know for sure; but maybe that’s just my fear of commitment speaking….

[scliffe]

I love the ending for the new anime season very much—it’s sweet and beautiful; and also terribly fitting for the Green Witch Arc.

Ciel’s mental state is constantly represented by the clothes he’s wearing; during his mental escape in GWA, he was wearing these clothes—the debut costume—pristine clean and unadulterated right before he was ripped out of them and defiled. Staying in these clothes forever means denying what he went through—time forever frozen in that moment before he fell from grace—it means denying his past and what has happened to him.

When he wears these; he turns almost childlike and cowardly, clinging to “his brother”, crying and sulking in bed, being terrified of adults, and hating Sebastian—the proof of his sin. But of course he’s unable to remain in escapism forever—and he gets jolted into the cold reality of being in that cage.

In the ending song; he starts the dance in the same clothes he was wearing the night of the ritual—the height of his misery and the night he lost everything he had left. These are the same clothes he is mentally stuck in whenever he gets a PTSD attack—torn, filthy, and miserable; these clothes brought with them the ghosts of his past.

Even the loving family he used to have only serves to make his current situation even more wretched in comparison. He looks at the ghosts of his parents, Madam Red, and Joker, and he slumps down in misery. For a moment he’s lost and adrift in the middle of nothing; missing his anchor. But then he gets up and grabs Sebastian’s hand.

Sebastian pulls him into motion. Ciel still wears these miserable clothes, but he no longer seems lost or haunted by the ghosts of his past. These are the very last clothes he was wearing before he decided to become the Earl of Phantomhive. Whoever our Ciel used to be—the child that he was before he chose to kill himself and took up the name of Ciel Phantomhive—was then “buried” forever in these clothes.

This quiet moment where only the two of them are dancing with wisps of blue represents that moment of transformation—the last moments our Ciel exists as his past self before he dies and the Earl of Phantomhive was reborn. Sebastian holds him as he looks up for the last time and peacefully, with no resistance, closes his eyes.

The frame expands and then we see him dancing with the servants—in the same order that they were found: Finnian, Mei, and Bard. The lighting is warm and luxurious, the servants clap and cheer him on, and he’s wearing gorgeous, expensive clothes—as he always wears when he’s with Sebastian—as the Earl of Phantomhive. This is possibly the cutest footage I’ve ever seen in my life.

And finally; Sebastian holds him up (or more like he climbs Sebastian; which also speaks a lot of their relationship) as he reaches up and grabs the star. This is the role Sebastian has always held in Ciel’s heart—he is his support, his closest, most intimate companion, and perhaps the tool (literally being treated like a ladder) for Ciel to reach his goal; while Ciel also trusts Sebastian not to drop him or let him down.

I don’t think I’ll ever shut up about how Sebastian is the one who pulled Ciel out of that hell—it is my Roman Empire and I will write 999 posts about it. I love how; although Sebastian and Ciel’s relationship may be morally questionable; at the end of the day, Sebastian is still the one who allows Ciel to grow into who he is—to rise and grasp the star with his own hand.

This ending is terribly bittersweet as we watches Ciel’s journey—both his pain, his determination, and the companions he gains and achievement he grasps—as he dances through the waltz.

[scliffe]

Debated whether to talk about this or not but some time ago I read this post regarding the Real Ciel Mastermind Theory/RCMT; [thank you to the person who sent me the link!] and as much as I appreciate the details to the theory I have to say that… I hope it’s not true;;; mainly because it doesn’t appeal to me emotionally.

Personally, I think it would be more interesting if our Ciel is forced to battle the twin brother that he loved—and still loves even now—instead of a yandere twin brother who had betrayed him from the start. The one he’s fighting with currently seems no better than an unfeeling zombie—a lifeless thing wearing the same face and having the same memories and maybe some desires but not the same feelings—but I wish to see perhaps some emotional turmoil for our Ciel to go through with re-killing his brother; I think it would be interesting!

Of course; not that our Ciel ever has any real choice since the start—R!Ciel requires the sacrifices of countless lives in order to sustain his; he is dead, he will eventually die again and there is no point in delaying the inevitable—Ciel knows what he must do as the Queen’s watchdog and as a Phantomhive, but I want it to be somewhat—at least a little—difficult and melancholic for him to pull the trigger anyway.

R!Ciel being the mastermind of the Phantomhive massacre would of course carry a different kind of pain and anguish for our Ciel, but the dilemma it presents would only be a repetition of the Red Butler arc—Ciel having to kill or bring to justice an evil family member. Instead, it removes the moral greyness of Ciel stealing his brother’s identity—because his brother had already betrayed him first and never deserved the title of the heir anyway. It also feels a little cliche to me—the underdog youngest son turns out to be the better heir while the star eldest child turns out to be a disappointment.

For my part; I tend to think that R!Ciel is often judged way more harshly by the readers in comparison to our Ciel or even Sebastian; especially in regard to his outright hostility towards Sebastian—which I honestly think makes perfect sense since Sebastian… ate him and played doll with his corpse in front of his traumatized little twin brother?

And I understand that the Bizarre Dolls are soulless since they could be revived even after their souls were collected by a grim reaper or eaten by a demon; but I still also sort of hope that part of R!Ciel’s “feelings” for his twin brother would still remain in him after all.

I love my little twins; I am terribly excited for their confrontation and showdown—and I don’t wish for it to be quite as black-and-white as Ciel killing the “evil mastermind” who caused the death of his whole family; I hope to see Ciel kills his beloved brother; and we know that Ciel blamed himself for Sebastian taking his brother’s soul back then—but this time he will be directly responsible for R!Ciel’s second death. So I wish that Yana will instead, put emphasis on how close they used to be and how deeply they loved each other—as well as how unfair it was that their innocence were ripped apart in such a brutal way. I want neither of them to be responsible for what befell themselves.

[scliffe]

Slightly controversial but I think people judge R!Ciel too harshly for being an obsessive older brother—like have you seen our Ciel????

R!Ciel has been exposed to this cuteness everyday of his life since he was born and he was not supposed to be possessive of him? Unrealistic. Just look at Sebastian; and he has only been exposed to our Ciel for 4 years.

People think R!Ciel is suspicious for having that line of: “I don’t need fake brothers.” As if anyone else could ever come close to our Ciel? Of course he doesn’t need fake brothers! Of course he thinks the idea of anyone remotely coming close to becoming his brother’s replacement is offensive! Unlike how our Ciel views himself, R!Ciel never considers his brother as a spare.

R!Ciel throwing a tantrum because he doesn’t want to be an Earl if that means he can’t be with his brother forever? Honestly; the most understandable thing he has ever done.

[scliffe]

This is quite a subjective opinion; but I am endlessly fascinated by how the romanticization (or sentimentalization) of Sebastian and Ciel’s relationship is such a big, important part of Kuroshitsuji—partly due to Sebastian’s own nature as a demon, but also due to Ciel’s character himself.

Sebastian is evil, and he is meant to lure people into damnation. He is the embodiment of a poisonous yet appealing temptation. He speaks sweet, gentle words. He is undeniably physically attractive, and generally, people find him charming. I can go on forever, but you get the gist; all of him is designed to slowly attract and lull people into complacency with him—into not seeing the predatory nature that lurks beneath that gorgeous skin.

This powerful creature, who can kill people with his bare hands, prefers to use sweet promises over threats—finding physical torture less effective than honey; so confident in his ability to understand human desires and tempt any person into the route he designs for them. He presents people with two choices; one of which seems infinitely more attractive than the other—but would certainly lead them to damnation. And it delights him very much when they inevitably chooses the sweeter option. It seems to be essential to the demonic contract that the contractor gets to choose (even if the choice was most likely—almost always—highly uninformed).

Now; if the contractor was an unassuming human who was tempted or fooled by the demon, or if the contractor was someone who’d kill and sacrifice another person on purpose, maybe we would say, “Well, he did that to himself.” Or even, “He deserved that.” But not only did Ciel manage to summon Sebastian by happenstance; he—arguably—did not have much choices other than to agree to the contract; it was either the contract or death at the hands of the cultists.

His consent was highly dubious (not that Sebastian ever cares); he was in a state of emotional distress—unfit to be making choices that would define the rest of his life—not to mention his youth, his vulnerability, and the glaring power imbalance with the predatory adults and demon surrounding him. From that moment on, his soul is forfeit; no matter how many times Ciel states that he is firm on his revenge and that he is doing this for himself—you can always argue that he is only saying this because the choice is either this or death.

Still, instead of highlighting the dubious nature of this agreement, the author shows that despite his young age, he is perceptive enough to read through Sebastian’s lies and see Sebastian’s true nature for what it is, and still “chooses” to have the contract. The author repeatedly, over and over, shows Ciel “choosing” this road for himself, Ciel saying that he has no need for the past and will not look back—and the whole time that Ciel charges unwaveringly into the darkness, Sebastian looks at him and smiles meaningfully.

Since we have no idea what “souls” present in Kuroshitsuji; the concept of what Ciel is actually paying with in order to get his revenge is exceedingly vague—it’s difficult to feel loss over something with an unknown value. This is exacerbated by Ciel’s easy acceptance of his own fate, and the practical logic on how it’s simply fair to pay a servant for his services.

Sebastian, for his part; always revels and delights in how Ciel chooses him. He basks in it, and gloats about it; the dubious nature of Ciel’s agreement forgotten, or frankly does not even seem to compute in Sebastian’s mind. What’s important is that Ciel made a choice; and that choice was Sebastian. We know that Sebastian will eventually kill Ciel, but we may contend that Sebastian is good for him. Sebastian saved Ciel and Ciel consented to having Sebastian. Sebastian gave Ciel the autonomy and independence and protection he desperately needed. And this does not come out of nowhere; as the author too, seems to deliberately romanticize/sentimentalize their relationship—the readers are simply picking up on the context cues.

They are certainly predator and prey; but people may love their appeal as a pair of lovers, like Bonnie and Clyde; or as found family along with the rest of the servants; they are partners-in-crime; soulmates; always understanding each other with just a glance, simply meant to be together, there is no Ciel without Sebastian and vice versa, etc.; it’s all a terribly romantic and sentimental view of their relationship.

The portrayal of Sebastian as a loyal and caring protector (although he is always hiding his hunger and fangs) and Ciel as a brave and pitiable victim resolutely seeking justice (although he arguably never had much choices) are done on purpose to allow their relationship to be romanticized/sentimentalized by the readers who want to root for them. If Sebastian was not portrayed attractively enough; if he wasn’t a handsome, gentle caretaker, who is devotedly loyal to Ciel and protects him from kidnappers and assassins and whatnots (see how he treats Ciel so much better compared to Ciel’s fellow humans?), this romanticization of him will not be possible. Likewise, if Ciel was portrayed as an innocent run-off-the-mill ten year old—instead of a smart one, a perceptive one, one who is “mature for his age”; if Ciel was a regular noble instead of the Queen’s watchdog; one who is meant to be the Earl of Phantomhive despite being born as an underdog (which makes the readers want to root for him and believe him to be capable of besting a demon on the negotiation table)—we will not be reading the contract scene and thinking, “Can he outsmart the demon?” Or even, “Well, certainly this ten year old understands what he is doing.” We would have instead understood the contract to be an exploitation of the child’s vulnerability and circumstances. Instead, Ciel is portrayed as wanting the contract; willing to sacrifice his soul to get his revenge; a fully-consenting party in a mutually beneficial agreement. When Sebastian offers his hand, Ciel consensually places his own hand in Sebastian’s.

What is truly “good” for Ciel becomes a moral dilemma that the readers cannot solve, and Sebastian’s true “feelings” (or whether he has any at all) is never explained. The readers are left to guess and come up with our own theories that will remain unanswered—we insist that Ciel needs and wants Sebastian, that Sebastian cares for Ciel beyond seeing him as food; and the whole thing is so morally dubious, but we are given a lot of incentives to see them in a positive, sentimental light. Every once in a while something may happen that seems to reinforce our beliefs in their relationship, but never fully confirm how they feel towards each other. The occasional “warning bells” reminding us of Sebastian’s nature as a demon are—more often than not—ignored, as the future when the contract ends still seems so far away, and regardless; Ciel is far too dependent on Sebastian to even think of living without him.

[scliffe]

Honestly, I wish people could appreciate Sebastian and Ciel’s relationship even if they don’t ship them romantically. It makes me sad when people hate on Sebastian and say things like how the two of them should be separated and Ciel should be saved from Sebastian. It also makes me sad when people victimize Ciel and gloss over his complicated personality and moral grayness instead of appreciating how well-written his character is. Sebastian and Ciel belong with each other; Sebastian makes Ciel who he is today and vice versa. There is no Ciel without Sebastian and there is no Sebastian without Ciel.

[waxn-wane]

It's interesting to know that Ciel named Sebastian at the crack of dawn, and yet Sebastian swore his commitment to his name by the moon.

I like to think that he vowed to the moon once his devotion to Ciel was more ingrained, at a later time.

Dedication to one's Master is obligatory, contractual. But it being Sebastian's choice to commit to his role more verily, swearing to the moon, seems to me sentimental at the very least. (I like to think him just a little sentimental when need be. Just a little).

It's nice to think that further along their contract, Sebastian decided on this.

He thought his Master was worth swearing to the moon.

[eyes-of-wine]

I like to think it's because Ciel is often portrayed by moon imagery while Seb is portrayed by sun/sunrise/sunset imagery.

I've been meaning to collect all the instances into one post for a while now but I never come around to it.

[scliffe]

I know of at least one instance. You know what else happens at dawn?

[scliffe]

Just a personal observation; but Ciel’s trauma triggers that have been shown so far seem to not be sexual at all. When he had to approach Viscount Druitt, or when he was being assaulted by Maurice Cole and his friends, he was still acting out a part and did not seem genuinely afraid—he knew that Sebastian or Greenhill and Edward would come to his rescue. People often comment on how these must have been scary or triggering for him, but honestly I don’t see it. Even when he was straight-up molested by Sullivan (though this was played for laughs) or even when Sebastian, a grown man, stripped him and bathed with him; these did not trigger his trauma either.

Instead; in the Book of Circus, he had the PTSD attack after seeing the doctor kill the child on the altar. In the Green Witch arc, it was Sebastian’s hands—not being naked with him—which reminded him of how he was force fed. He seems to be touch-averse and dislike being touched by strangers in general; and it does not matter whether the touch is sexual in nature or not—he hates it equally. In both attacks, the main source of trauma seems to be the memory of losing his brother—as he kept recalling how Ciel was brutally stabbed, instead of the CSA.

Of course, trauma works differently on different people and it might just be storytelling choices to keep it PG-13, but I think Ciel might have simply been too young to fully understand the sexual abuse that happened to him—or it’s just not the most traumatic event for him in comparison to losing his brother.

Even though he claims to design his revenge for his own sake alone instead of for his brother or his family; Ciel’s death certainly plays a big, major part in his trauma. I think that when you’re committing revenge for deceased loved ones as opposed to for yourself; it can be quite detrimental for your resolve when you start thinking things like “Would my loved ones even want to see me like this? Or would they have preferred to see me live happily?” It would taint the image of the deceased—of course your loved ones should want you to live happily instead of ruining your own life for revenge—which is what happened in GWA with the image of Vincent, Rachel, and Ciel asking him if he was doing it for them and telling him that no one asked him to have revenge. But even if the deceased didn’t want him to have revenge; Ciel has already made up his mind to pay back the people who dared to trample not only on his family but also on himself, so his resolve simply strengthens and instead this gave him more conviction to go against his twin brother in the next arcs.

Sebastian has also teased Ciel about his innocence before—though obviously Ciel knows to be embarrassed from physical display of or closeness with the opposite sex (he’s 13 not 3); his concept of sexual attraction seems to still be rather juvenile.

Additional thought, r!Ciel seems to be used to Undertaker’s touch just as our Ciel is normally used to Sebastian’s touch; but seeing how he reacted violently to Soma touching him, r!Ciel might also be touch-averse just like our Ciel is. Or maybe he’s just secretly jealous that his brother has other friends.

[scliffe]

I saw someone misinterpret this post to mean that I’m saying Ciel had no trauma at all from the CSA—that’s not true (and honestly baffles me how you read it this way?); the CSA was definitely part of the cause of his trauma, what I’m saying is that his trauma triggers don’t necessarily have to be sexual at all. I reiterate that when it comes to Ciel being touch-averse, it does not matter whether the touch is sexual in nature or not— he hates it equally. This is something that clearly came from his experience of being abused and dehumanized—including the CSA but also the non-sexual parts of it; like being force-fed, thrown around and physically abused, basically being treated like a cattle and of course; it possibly culminates in watching his twin brother get slaughtered like a livestock. The fact that they are identical—that the man just grabbed whichever twin was the nearest without caring which twin it was—adds to the dehumanization and irrational guilt our Ciel suffers from.

And not everything that is sexual in nature, or constitutes sexual harassment or abuse will necessarily trigger his trauma either. I maintain that his trauma was not triggered with Viscount Druitt nor with Maurice Cole; both of these encounters were planned and he had anticipated how they would possibly react—not that I think he anticipated that Cole would try to sexually assault him (I also… didn’t expect that), but he definitely anticipated a physical altercation (in fact, I think he was counting on Cole to be be violent in retaliation). Saying that he was panicking when he was obviously acting, or that he was dissociating when he was in control the whole time; seems to me like an attempt to make Ciel look more vulnerable than he actually is—just like portraying Vincent as an abusive father or Ciel’s family as a neglectful one. I respectfully disagree with it and think it’s a bad mischaracterization which in this case may instead reduce him to his trauma; viewing his actions and everything he went through as the actions and experiences of a CSA survivor; instead of Ciel Phantomhive.

[star-star-space-stuff]

I also think that in many of the situations in which Ciel is not experiencing a PTSD episode despite them being eerily similar to traumatic experiences of his past, this is due to Ciel having sufficient control of these situations. But, as we can see with the circus arc, when the doctor stabs that girl, this is not a sufficient condition. Now, one can argue that seeing his brother stabbed was more traumatic than, say, being kidnapped, but I also believe that something else plays into it. Which is repetition. Ciel gets kidnapped, roughed up and threatened to be sold to cults an awful lot. Just the first few chapters establish two seperate situations, with Druitt and Azurro, and both times, xiel is totally calm. In chapter five, Sebastian even notes that Ciel is getting careless with his safety. However, he also remarks that he has to save the boy from a lot of kidnappings lately. So I would argue that Ciel probably seeks out these situations deliberately, subconsciously at least, in order to process his traumatic past. Which might be puzzling to Sebastian, but seems to be helping. Also, he says what he is planning is revenge, but to me it does not seem as though Ciel is motivated primarily by hatred. He does not know who attacked the manor, and his approach to finding out is incredibly passive. Instead, Ciel tries to re-enact his traumatic past, but he will not be a helpless little child rhis time around. Implicitly, his goal is to do a better job than even his father. He wants control, control of the narrative, and I think that that is precisely what he means when he says he sold his soul for himself. Of course, in the world's story, the hero of that story will be "Ciel Phantomhive", not quite him, but I am do not think this matters to our boy when he makes the contract. I think he rather liked the s the idea that this is what he gives back to his brother in return for his sacrifice. But it is not how the story goes...

[scliffe]

These are some very interesting points! I have not thought of Ciel possibly attempting to “re-enact” his trauma before; but it certainly is very plausible. If he was constantly “re-enacting”; I would think that his biggest regret that night—the thing that he wants to undo the most—was his brother’s death. This was the “game over” moment; so to speak—not being able to prevent the little girl’s (/r!Ciel’s) death made him lose his sense of control and immediately drove him to a PTSD attack. He lost—and so he immediately “resets the game”; having Sebastian kill everyone present and set everything on fire. And so it all repeats.

[scliffe]

I wish there is a way for Sebastian to consume Ciel’s soul… but still retain Ciel’s consciousness. So Ciel is part of him now—they’ve (finally) become one entity; but Ciel is still here—he’s not gone; Sebastian can just spawn a separate physical form in the form of Ciel and fills it with Ciel’s consciousness and practically nothing will change from how they used to be except that they’re one now and Ciel is immortalized forever.

[scliffe]

Just a personal observation; but Ciel’s trauma triggers that have been shown so far seem to not be sexual at all. When he had to approach Viscount Druitt, or when he was being assaulted by Maurice Cole and his friends, he was still acting out a part and did not seem genuinely afraid—he knew that Sebastian or Greenhill and Edward would come to his rescue. People often comment on how these must have been scary or triggering for him, but honestly I don’t see it. Even when he was straight-up molested by Sullivan (though this was played for laughs) or even when Sebastian, a grown man, stripped him and bathed with him; these did not trigger his trauma either.

Instead; in the Book of Circus, he had the PTSD attack after seeing the doctor kill the child on the altar. In the Green Witch arc, it was Sebastian’s hands—not being naked with him—which reminded him of how he was force fed. He seems to be touch-averse and dislike being touched by strangers in general; and it does not matter whether the touch is sexual in nature or not—he hates it equally. In both attacks, the main source of trauma seems to be the memory of losing his brother—as he kept recalling how Ciel was brutally stabbed, instead of the CSA.

Of course, trauma works differently on different people and it might just be storytelling choices to keep it PG-13, but I think Ciel might have simply been too young to fully understand the sexual abuse that happened to him—or it’s just not the most traumatic event for him in comparison to losing his brother.

Even though he claims to design his revenge for his own sake alone instead of for his brother or his family; Ciel’s death certainly plays a big, major part in his trauma. I think that when you’re committing revenge for deceased loved ones as opposed to for yourself; it can be quite detrimental for your resolve when you start thinking things like “Would my loved ones even want to see me like this? Or would they have preferred to see me live happily?” It would taint the image of the deceased—of course your loved ones should want you to live happily instead of ruining your own life for revenge—which is what happened in GWA with the image of Vincent, Rachel, and Ciel asking him if he was doing it for them and telling him that no one asked him to have revenge. But even if the deceased didn’t want him to have revenge; Ciel has already made up his mind to pay back the people who dared to trample not only on his family but also on himself, so his resolve simply strengthens and instead this gave him more conviction to go against his twin brother in the next arcs.

Sebastian has also teased Ciel about his innocence before—though obviously Ciel knows to be embarrassed from physical display of or closeness with the opposite sex (he’s 13 not 3); his concept of sexual attraction seems to still be rather juvenile.

Additional thought, r!Ciel seems to be used to Undertaker’s touch just as our Ciel is normally used to Sebastian’s touch; but seeing how he reacted violently to Soma touching him, r!Ciel might also be touch-averse just like our Ciel is. Or maybe he’s just secretly jealous that his brother has other friends.

[scliffe]

I saw someone misinterpret this post to mean that I’m saying Ciel had no trauma at all from the CSA—that’s not true (and honestly baffles me how you read it this way?); the CSA was definitely part of the cause of his trauma, what I’m saying is that his trauma triggers don’t necessarily have to be sexual at all. I reiterate that when it comes to Ciel being touch-averse, it does not matter whether the touch is sexual in nature or not— he hates it equally. This is something that clearly came from his experience of being abused and dehumanized—including the CSA but also the non-sexual parts of it; like being force-fed, thrown around and physically abused, basically being treated like a cattle and of course; it possibly culminates in watching his twin brother get slaughtered like a livestock. The fact that they are identical—that the man just grabbed whichever twin was the nearest without caring which twin it was—adds to the dehumanization and irrational guilt our Ciel suffers from.

And not everything that is sexual in nature, or constitutes sexual harassment or abuse will necessarily trigger his trauma either. I maintain that his trauma was not triggered with Viscount Druitt nor with Maurice Cole; both of these encounters were planned and he had anticipated how they would possibly react—not that I think he anticipated that Cole would try to sexually assault him (I also… didn’t expect that), but he definitely anticipated a physical altercation (in fact, I think he was counting on Cole to be be violent in retaliation). Saying that he was panicking when he was obviously acting, or that he was dissociating when he was in control the whole time; seems to me like an attempt to make Ciel look more vulnerable than he actually is—just like portraying Vincent as an abusive father or Ciel’s family as a neglectful one. I respectfully disagree with it and think it’s a bad mischaracterization which in this case may instead reduce him to his trauma; viewing his actions and everything he went through as the actions and experiences of a CSA survivor; instead of Ciel Phantomhive.

[scliffe]

Really adore Ciel’s expression here because one half of him looks horribly angry and pissed while the other half is just in so much pain.

[scliffe]

I’m actually really curious on what kind of ending people want Kuroshitsuji to have; should Ciel die young? Should it take decades before he achieves his revenge? Would you rather the manga ends with Sebastian eating Ciel, Ciel escaping that fate somehow, or an open ending where the manga ends without ever confirming whether Sebastian gets to have his meal?

I’m personally rather undecided but I love romanticizing Sebastian eating Ciel; so there’s that.

[sunnygalaxyfox]

Over the course of my short time in the fandom, I've talked about what could possibly happen at the end. We've theorized about Ciel's death, with Sebastian's survival, about a possibility that Sebastian gets his reward and moves on. But the one that honestly sticks with me the most is the potential for Sebastian's death in defense of Ciel.

We see the parallel in Sebastian the dog, and with Agni and Soma, just two instances where the loyal protector gives their life, tho I'm sure if we analyzed and dug for more we could find others. We see how much attention she (ms. Toboso) brought during the climax of the Luxury Liner arc of how injured Sebastian actually was after fighting Undertaker, and even going before that, when Grell is first introduced, where Sebastian nearly loses his arm when he had to put aside his own safety and defend Ciel.

I also think it would tie nicely in with his own character arc of this literal monster being the most human, loyal, and caring protector Ciel finally had after surviving all of these tragedies with the monstrous humans in his life. You can argue that the contract made him that way, but honestly, if anyone reads the manga from chapter 1 to the current one (chapter 213), and still thinks Sebastian hates and wants Ciel dead, you're reading with your eyes closed. He goes from resenting his "misfortune" of being saddled with a traumatized brat of a child, who he attempted to trick into breaking the contract, to serving faithfully for three (almost 4 by the end of where the story is currently at) because Ciel has time and time again pleasantly surprised him with how tenacious and unbreakable he is. He is like no other human he has met in his long lifetime.

Now will a Sebastian death be a perma-death, I can't say for certain. He says fairly early on (like in volume 1) that even if his body is destroyed, he will never leave Ciel.

So for now I am just patiently waiting and enjoying the carefully crafted story we're being given. My inner Sebaciel would love to see them have a happily ever after, even just as servant and master, demon and human, solving mysteries and snarking at each other until Ciel's inevitable death. But my inner Sebaciel also knows that this story is about tragedy, and anyone in this story who has loved, has lost the one(s) they cherished the most. Ciel's family, Snake and the circus troupe, Soma and Agni, just as a handful of examples. Honestly the only ones we've seen had a true "happy ending" with their relationship, is Sullivan and Wolfram (which we could argue are foils for Ciel and Sebastian, and likely why they also may not get a happy ending).

I've honestly never read such a tragically beautiful story as Black Butler, and I'm really excited to see the end of the story, even if it rips my heart out.

[sebadztian]

I both look forward and dread this ending, although I agree that it is a possibility that Sebastian would end up dying in Ciel's defense.

However, if that were to happen, the next big question is, what would happen to Ciel then?

Besides, I don't think that UT is the big bad guy, so if Sebas were to die in the battle with UT, who'd be helping Ciel face the final boss?

Regarding whether Sebastian's death would be a perma-death, I think that if he were to be killed by a Death Scythe, then yes, it might be a perma-death. Yes, he did say that he wouldn't 'die' even though his physical body might perish, he also stated that a wound caused by a Death Scythe was different. But well, he could go 'home' to recover and come back like a few days later?

Of course, if we're going to consider ALL possibilities, then there's that part in Red Valentine's when Sebastian visited the ruined manor with a cake for Ciel and stated how he had now become a 'lonely demon'. In this scenario, of course, the ending is pretty clear: Ciel will die and Ssbastian will miss him. This is the ending that I myself am hoping to get because just like his death, this ending will also show how much his character has grown - especially in relation to Ciel.

Personally though, I think the contract will be fulfilled and Sebastian will take Ciel's soul in the end before he moved on, but he will definitely regret it.

[mister-astringent]

We also keep coming back to discussing Romeo and Juliet - so possibly a scenario where they both die (or, 'die'), or one where they die for each other.

I think I've mentioned it before, but maybe we could end up with something where one party at least believes the other to be dead, and therefore sacrifices themself.

If (O!)Ciel were to be spirited away by Undertaker again, then it could be that we see a scenario in which one or both of them is tricked by the ex-Reaper. Perhaps Sebastian walks straight into his trap and is critically harmed, essentially disappearing from this world and leaving O!Ciel alone and at the mercy of whatever scheme UT has been planning, regaining the strength to return too late to save his master.

Or, taking into account our ongoing themes of both 'loyalty' and 'faith', it may well be that if Sebastian choses to embrace the Butler's Aesthetic of defending his master, putting himself in harm's way against a Death Scythe and receiving a wound bad enough that it could effectively destroy him, that Ciel's faith in him is such that he offers up his soul to strengthen Sebastian, placing his sense of purpose as to 'the end' in the demon, rather than in himself and his desire for revenge.

[scliffe]

If (O!)Ciel were to be spirited away by Undertaker again,

If you ask me it’s all his fault for being so small and portable

No law in Victorian England that says only Sebastian can lift Earl Phantomhive with one arm.

[scliffe]

I’m actually really curious on what kind of ending people want Kuroshitsuji to have; should Ciel die young? Should it take decades before he achieves his revenge? Would you rather the manga ends with Sebastian eating Ciel, Ciel escaping that fate somehow, or an open ending where the manga ends without ever confirming whether Sebastian gets to have his meal?

I’m personally rather undecided but I love romanticizing Sebastian eating Ciel; so there’s that.

[sunnygalaxyfox]

Over the course of my short time in the fandom, I've talked about what could possibly happen at the end. We've theorized about Ciel's death, with Sebastian's survival, about a possibility that Sebastian gets his reward and moves on. But the one that honestly sticks with me the most is the potential for Sebastian's death in defense of Ciel.

We see the parallel in Sebastian the dog, and with Agni and Soma, just two instances where the loyal protector gives their life, tho I'm sure if we analyzed and dug for more we could find others. We see how much attention she (ms. Toboso) brought during the climax of the Luxury Liner arc of how injured Sebastian actually was after fighting Undertaker, and even going before that, when Grell is first introduced, where Sebastian nearly loses his arm when he had to put aside his own safety and defend Ciel.

I also think it would tie nicely in with his own character arc of this literal monster being the most human, loyal, and caring protector Ciel finally had after surviving all of these tragedies with the monstrous humans in his life. You can argue that the contract made him that way, but honestly, if anyone reads the manga from chapter 1 to the current one (chapter 213), and still thinks Sebastian hates and wants Ciel dead, you're reading with your eyes closed. He goes from resenting his "misfortune" of being saddled with a traumatized brat of a child, who he attempted to trick into breaking the contract, to serving faithfully for three (almost 4 by the end of where the story is currently at) because Ciel has time and time again pleasantly surprised him with how tenacious and unbreakable he is. He is like no other human he has met in his long lifetime.

Now will a Sebastian death be a perma-death, I can't say for certain. He says fairly early on (like in volume 1) that even if his body is destroyed, he will never leave Ciel.

So for now I am just patiently waiting and enjoying the carefully crafted story we're being given. My inner Sebaciel would love to see them have a happily ever after, even just as servant and master, demon and human, solving mysteries and snarking at each other until Ciel's inevitable death. But my inner Sebaciel also knows that this story is about tragedy, and anyone in this story who has loved, has lost the one(s) they cherished the most. Ciel's family, Snake and the circus troupe, Soma and Agni, just as a handful of examples. Honestly the only ones we've seen had a true "happy ending" with their relationship, is Sullivan and Wolfram (which we could argue are foils for Ciel and Sebastian, and likely why they also may not get a happy ending).

I've honestly never read such a tragically beautiful story as Black Butler, and I'm really excited to see the end of the story, even if it rips my heart out.

[scliffe]

I lowkey had to digest why the thought of Sebastian’s death is more horrifying to me than Ciel’s death—I suppose it’s because Ciel is basically already on death row anyway while Sebastian is supposed to be immortal; and even then, Ciel’s impending death is really only acceptable to me as he will be eaten by Sebastian after his death. I (heavily) reject the notion that Ciel might die and instead of being eaten he just goes to heaven/equivalent (how scary).

In the end; I suppose that even if either of them must die, I want their death to be related to the other person anyhow. The idea that Sebastian would willingly give up his own life for Ciel (!!!!) is not only extremely romantic but also would definitely establish that he does not merely see Ciel as food—that his role as Ciel’s butler has grown more important than who he was as a demon prior to meeting Ciel—and this makes me equally excited as I am heartbroken.

I love this part you wrote about it:

this literal monster being the most human, loyal, and caring protector Ciel finally had after surviving all of these tragedies with the monstrous humans in his life.

I am one of those people who believe that ultimately your actions matter more than whatever motivations you had.

If Sebastian is going to sacrifice himself for Ciel; I think a permanent death would be more impactful than a temporary one (sorry Sebastian). Alternatively, Sebastian and the audience may be led to believe it was close enough to a permanent death; so close that Sebastian couldn’t have possibly calculated it—close enough that you know it was sincere. Then we get wonderfully surprised by a sudden unexpected reappearance at the end—which ties up nicely to how Sebastian said he would never leave Ciel even if his body is gone.

[page305]

Source

[scliffe]

I’m actually really curious on what kind of ending people want Kuroshitsuji to have; should Ciel die young? Should it take decades before he achieves his revenge? Would you rather the manga ends with Sebastian eating Ciel, Ciel escaping that fate somehow, or an open ending where the manga ends without ever confirming whether Sebastian gets to have his meal?

I’m personally rather undecided but I love romanticizing Sebastian eating Ciel; so there’s that.

[lisyonokk]

two answeres here:

1) to me Sebastian explicitly eating ciel's soul sounds like the most structurally and thematically right way to end the Canon series and manga. If I take a step back I see some titles where 'doomed' characters eventually escape their fate through some luck and planing and sacrifice. and it does feel good for the protagonist to get away from death and so on. I totally get it. but here to me it would be somehow weak and hollow.

bc ciel ultimately does not regret making the contract, he does not try to escape or trick Sebastian out of his meal. I believe he puts like a seal of his pride and 'business integrity' on their contract and it would be a self insult for him to not do his part when he knows Sebastian's done everything he was obligated to and more.

the bittersweet end would feel cathartic and right, making the story complete and whole. (although i want Sebastian to be filled with genuine regret of having to take ciel's soul even though that was his whole motivation at the beginning)

2) and here's my Sebaciel hopeless romantic answer: I want Sebastian to try and take his soul, realise he cannot for the life of him do it and find some kind of barely there loophole to continue the contract. and then ciel gets extra pissed, drama ensues there are many feelings involved and resolved and then they have their happy forever (or just until ciel dies of old age if he is not turned into some other entity to sustain a totally different lifespan)

I want ciel to feel cheated, betrayed and heartbroken bc he was promised one thing and given another. also he doesn't get Sebastian's motivation bc of course Sebastian would not to be so vulnerable as to confess his true feelings and then it's a mess of accusations... and then ciel doesn't know how to comprehend his future and life bc well he was planning on dying in a few years how do you reshape your view when turns out you can live longer and he has an existential crisis (and then they fuck about it oops)

[scliffe]

Both of these are SO GOOD—equally satisfying to me; I also love the idea of Sebastian being filled with regret (even if he might not understand what the feeling was (!!)) but ends up eating Ciel regardless because what other choice do they have? Ciel definitely wants Sebastian to eat him once his revenge is done; because what else would be the purpose of living? He lives on a borrowed time; borrowed name and title; the only thing that truly belongs to him is his revenge and Sebastian.

The second option though; what if somehow the stars aligned and our wildest delusion can come true they deviate from the contract? The contract means Sebastian can claim Ciel’s soul anytime after his revenge is done; that’s too much risk for Ciel. I think it will be hard for Ciel to accept that Sebastian could ever let him live and stay with him without some hidden agenda; he will definitely feel betrayed once Sebastian acts outside of his expectations. It doesn’t even matter whether Sebastian can (or will try to) explain himself or not. Ciel can only trust Sebastian to stick to the contract now because he understands Sebastian wants his soul that badly—what would it mean when Sebastian no longer wants to eat his soul?

Deviating from their contract messes up their power dynamics—they’ll no longer be equal; the only power Ciel had over Sebastian was the contract. If he’s no longer bound to be Ciel’s servant—then he can only be Ciel’s predator. There is no third option for what Sebastian can be. Unless…? (Unless they fuck about it.)

Anyway, it will be interesting to see Ciel learning to coexist with Sebastian without the contract acting as a buffer and stabilizer between them. Though it’s really hard to imagine Kuroshitsuji without the delicious morally-dubious implications of their contract.

[scliffe]

I’m actually really curious on what kind of ending people want Kuroshitsuji to have; should Ciel die young? Should it take decades before he achieves his revenge? Would you rather the manga ends with Sebastian eating Ciel, Ciel escaping that fate somehow, or an open ending where the manga ends without ever confirming whether Sebastian gets to have his meal?

I’m personally rather undecided but I love romanticizing Sebastian eating Ciel; so there’s that.

[scliffe]

@eyes-of-wine :

#honestly the only ending l'd be completely satisfied with is if they both died together #bonus points if it's by protecting each other #they're both so enmeshed in each other and their roles that I just don't see a good way of either one of them surviving #without the other after the contract #I mean I guess season 2 ending where they both become immortal is the second option #but I doubt we're getting that again #I know a lot of people want Seb to get his reward and be done with it #but I feel like it would feel more like a loss than a win to him at this point #ofc there's beauty to that tragedy #I just don't know how satisfying it would be

Dying together sounds good! Honestly; the thing is (I think) that even if either one of them survives, the other would be rendered permanently altered and simply won’t exist the same way again—kind of like an emotional death. Sebastian killing Ciel feels akin to Sebastian killing himself because he loved being with Ciel so much that he has reinvented himself and the new self that he has metamorphosed into simply cannot be without his master. Sebastian lives to serve Ciel and Ciel lives to be consumed by revenge/Sebastian. They lose their purpose without each other. In that sense, there is virtually no difference between one of them dying or the two of them dying together—but I want Ciel to fulfill his revenge which cannot happen if the two of them are dead…? They are free to die together after the revenge is successfully fulfilled though, preferably in a burning building.

I have to admit I enjoy the thought of them dying together rather than the s2 ending; mainly because s2 ending forces Sebastian to be with Ciel instead of it being a compulsory choice. I want Sebastian and Ciel to choose to be with each other; over and over and over again. Anyway I doubt demon!Ciel will ever become canon because it raises too many questions and kind of fucks up the manga demon lore.

[scliffe]

I’m actually really curious on what kind of ending people want Kuroshitsuji to have; should Ciel die young? Should it take decades before he achieves his revenge? Would you rather the manga ends with Sebastian eating Ciel, Ciel escaping that fate somehow, or an open ending where the manga ends without ever confirming whether Sebastian gets to have his meal?

I’m personally rather undecided but I love romanticizing Sebastian eating Ciel; so there’s that.

[scliffe]

@playingwithyourjigglypuff :

#hmmm good question #I think a sad ending where ciel is eaten would actually be the most satisfying conclusion for me #If it's like a really somber but emotional and intimate moment (think end of the first season) and maybe Sebs is really conflicted about it #but does it anyway #I think that would actually be pretty cool

I think about the s1 ending quite a lot sometimes; the tranquil atmosphere when Sebastian was about to eat him. Sebastian seems to be savoring the last moments, and Ciel is calm about his passing—it's eerie but gentle like we've fallen into a lull. It’s intimate in such a strange way because it feels like we’re watching a lovers’ suicide. Some parts of s1 was quite a mess but it really was pretty cool.

#I'm also a big fan of both of them dying at the end #I think an open ending would be somewhat annoying and unsatisfying but could be done well too I guess #But I trust yana on this one tbh she clearly loves this series and is really good at storytelling #I think kuro will come to a satisfying conclusion even if it's not something I would have preferred or expected #(unless ciel survives. I will die on the hill that a happy ending would be the worst possible outcome) #similarly I think it would kind of stuck if he grew up with Sebastian by his side and then dies of old age or snth #ciel should die young pls make him die young #kuroshitsuji

Imagine: the year is 1901. A twenty five years old Ciel Phantomhive has just gunned down Queen Victoria, the true culprit of the Phantomhive massacre, in her royal residence. His butler, Mr. Sebastian Michaelis, knelt down in front of him bathed in blood as John Brown—shockingly another undercover grim reaper!—had successfully killed him with a death scythe disguised as King Albert’s hand puppet. Ciel goes home and marries Elizabeth and has four children with her; all of them named Ciel Phantomhive Jr. Then he lives indefinitely until a certain old age and dies happily surrounded by his great-great-great-great-grandchildren. The End.