♔ ShadowPaintedRose ♔

♔ I DO WHAT I WANT ♔

[oonaluna-art]

Strange times at the Agreste household

[mittensmorgul]

any continuation or extension (or whatever you want to call it) of Supernatural will, by necessity, have to in some way denounce or overwrite or undo the finale. They can’t just “get bored in Heaven” and ask to be sent back for another go at life, because it’s already at LEAST 40 years in the future there now. And unless this show is basically gonna become some futuristic nonsense thing (in which case I wouldn’t bother watching it, because wtf…), then they’re going to have to return to the somewhat-present.

Time might “work different” in Heaven, but I’m pretty sure it still can’t go backward, and there won’t be “two Sams” living on Earth (one with blurry wife and Replacement!Dean, one doing whatever they do on the show). If they’re going to restart the show in any way, they need to address the travesty of the finale, not just start from it as an assumption of “this actually happened exactly as it appeared.”

Brought to you by the part of my brain that just starts screaming every time anyone insists that they’re all in Heaven, or that “everyone is dead” was actually how the show “had to end,” because death is something this show has laughed at for fifteen years and literally NOBODY believes that death is final on this show.

Not to mention, “hey, I’m bored, what say we take another run at Earth for a while?” for no other reason is facile and reductive and just… dumb, honestly. What is the point of the story then? I don’t really want to watch a continuation that’s based solely on the characters having grown bored, because that in itself goes against what their “perfect heaven” with (what they are led to believe is) free will and every option open to them. Either that is true and there is no such thing as boredom there because it’s just like Earth without the conflict and suffering, or else it’s a lie and that renders the finale a lie anyway… you can’t have it both ways.

Either way, the finale needs to go in the trash where it belongs. I’m just not sure I trust that anyone involved in any potential return of the show would bother dealing with it… It’s pretty much the only thing I grumble about every time they bring up the potential for a reunion of any sort.

[shadowpaintedrose]

I’m in favor of a complete retcon. Whether it’s cheap or doesn’t make sense or whatever, it doesn’t matter. But anything after 15x19 CANNOT be valid. Make it a fever dream. Make it an imagination of Chuck’s ending. I don’t care. As long as the whole thing ends up in the trash. It should be the butt of a joke.

[jollyhollya]

Bibbity bobbity boo!

I had my own fairy godmother this weekend at comic con. So magical.

[justhere4coffee]

I slowed the actual transformation down 200% so you can see just how brilliant it is… From the first sign of the ballgown to completely changed takes less than 3 seconds. That is some epic-level crafting.

[jollyhollya]

@justhere4coffee thank you! Wanted it to be as quick a transformation as possible!

[shadowpaintedrose]

why did this make me cry?

[marril96]

[marril96]

(insp.)

[deans-jiggly-pudding]

This is for my Samwena shippers! ❤️

[shadowpaintedrose]

Yeah 😭 

[wigglebox]

ETA: The tl;dr of this is thanks to @mittensmorgul reminding us of the phrase “Fortune favors the bold”.

I wonder also if there’s any credence to: "No good e'er comes of leisure purposeless; And heaven ne'er helps the men who will not act.” (and not conflate heaven with God) 

—-

I didn’t want to pop onto any posts and write this. but basically, i’ve been seeing some not-so-happy reactions to Fortuna and the resolution of that episode plot yesterday. 

I  personally viewed this as a way for them to not have the rug pulled out from under them again by God. Not that it’s luck but that it’s kind of like some extra support to go after him and kick him in the dick or whatever. Other Gods hate him. We’re beginning to see all these players that can be used to move against God also with Jack coming back as well. 

I wound up not subscribing to the theory that they lost luck. In the end, I feel like it was more that God put a veil over their ability to function and heightened the consequences. It felt like bad luck, it was manufactured bad luck, but that meant it wasn’t meant to be there. It felt like it was all absurd circumstances meant to humiliate them. I felt like this was them getting now this shield so it won’t happen again. There’s only so much they can do on their own. They always had the skills though, and this was just some help breaking the chains that were holding the effectiveness back. 

And also, the realization that they do have the skills and they are selfless and want to truly help people and save people. They care about Humanity. All the people were let go in the end as well. There wasn’t a “luck balance” where one has to take from another in order to have luck (which reminded me of “Faith”). They were all let go in the end, and Sam and Dean got this sort of a shield from an unlikely ally, especially considering Sam and Dean don’t really get along with other Gods too much. It felt like a Hammer of the Gods redux. Not using them as bait, but giving them tools to help them win, and if that tool is just making sure God couldn’t fuck with them anymore, then so be it. 

Idk. I only watched the episode once so far so I may be missing some bits. 

I’d be interested in more thoughts here, even if they diverge from mine! If there is still a negative connotation with what happened, I do expect it to be subverted if it’s meant to be subverted. 

[norahastuff]

Yeah I felt the same way about it all. I mean ultimately none of this is going to come down to a match between Sam and Dean’s physical abilities vs Chuck’s physical abilities. I mean he’s God, all the luck in the world isn’t going to make them stronger than him or whatever. What’s going to allow them to win is exactly what won Fortuna over - they are heroes who want to do good. They care and want to save people.

I also think that bit at the end with Dean not winning on the scratch card proves that they haven’t suddenly gotten all this magic luck and that’s whats going to save the day. Fortuna just helped them enough for them to be able to continue fighting and to carry on finding a way. Like you said she’s an ally, and we’ve gone from the “all our friends are dead” days, to their friends and allies playing an essential role in this fight.

[wigglebox]

Yes! I forgot about the scratch tickets for a hot second but you’re correct! They aren’t suddenly blessed with divine luck as a free pass to an easy win! I love that last bit at the end as well: We’ve gone from “all our friends are dead” to “friends and found family is what will help us and we also fight for them”.

[mittensmorgul]

Lol even Dean’s first interaction with the coin, where Pax “gauged how much luck he had to gamble with,” Dean registered with a less-than-normal amount of luck, but he wasn’t luckless… he was cursed in a very specific, targeted way. Sam too, obviously, but this was measured by Dean touching the coin at first, so I’m using Dean as the example here.

It wasn’t a lack of luck they were suffering from, or neither Sam nor Dean would’ve been able to win ANY game of pool, you know? Dean wouldn’t have been able to make that trick shot, jumping the cue ball over another ball to sink the 8 ball. Because that wasn’t a function of “luck,” but skill. Like picking a lock should’ve been a skill they excelled at, but they failed because Chuck specifically made the locks un-pickable, not “taken” Sam and Dean’s luck. It wasn’t a function of “luck” that suddenly had Sam stumbling on stairs and literally kicking a bucket in an otherwise open and empty room, you know? Anyone who thinks everything that happened to them in 15.10 was “normal” has a really depressing view of what is “normal.” If it’s not clear that Chuck was specifically targeting them, giving them a comically awful and entirely abnormal series of specific failures with the explicit goal of convincing them that they didn’t have a hope of beating him, or defying his story for them, then I don’t know what else canon could even do to convince people of that fact. Short of having Chuck give the villain monologue saying exactly that. But he kind of already did that, in 15.09 when he showed Sam his hand, when he tried to disabuse Sam specifically of the notion that he was ever the “hero” of the story.

Sam and Dean didn’t need to have their “luck” restored. They needed to understand that the only way to beat Chuck was to force him to play their game, rather than trying to play within Chuck’s story. Fortuna didn’t give them “luck.” She gave them a shield from the target Chuck had painted on them.

Heck I don’t know how many other ways I can keep saying it to convince people of this… :’D

[shadowpaintedrose]

Okay I stan Fortuna

[shadowpaintedrose]

Oh that’s interesting… the same actress once played a djinn on the show before.

[mittensmorgul]

omg… 8.20, Pac Man Fever… where she literally fed on fear, and the only way to escape and free themselves from her game was literally to resign and stop playing her impossible, unwinnable game.

CHARLIE: This is it, the boss battle. Come on, we gotta save the patients. DEAN: Wait wait wait. You said that we’re stuck in a loop, right? But out there in the real world, you’re dying. And I might be too. We gotta find a way to break this loop. CHARLIE: Okay. How? DEAN: I think the only way to stop this is to… not play. CHARLIE: What?! No, no. We gotta save them. Nut up, Winchester. [A vampire punches in through the door. DEAN shoots him] CHARLIE: See? You can’t stop either. DEAN: Listen to me. This poison, it’s designed to put your mind into an endless cycle, while your insides turn to mush, okay, and its fuel is fear. Now call me crazy, but I think the only way to break the cycle is to let go of the fear and stop playing the game. CHARLIE: You don’t know that. [shoots another vampire] DEAN: I know that your fear is creating all of this. You’re not afraid of those super-soldier vamps out there, you’re not afraid of this game, and you’re not afraid of what it did to you. [CHARLIE reloads, tearful] Hey! Look at me. You’re afraid of losing her. (beat) Charlie, she’s already gone. CHARLIE: No. No, you don’t understand. You don’t understand! I was at a sleepover, and I got scared. So… [she starts tearing up] I called my parents to come and get me. They should never have been driving that night. DEAN: It wasn’t your fault. CHARLIE: (crying) I just wanna tell her that I’m sorry and that I love her. And just have her hear it again. I just need her to hear that one more time. But she can’t. She can’t. DEAN: I know. Believe me, I know. But you gotta let it go. (beat) Game over, kiddo. [CHARLIE takes aim at the vampires near the door again, hesitates, then drops the shotgun. The vampires disappear.] DEAN walks over and opens what is left of the door; the hallway is empty. CHARLIE walks over to GERTRUDE’s bed and slides open the curtain. The bed is empty as well.

Interesting that was the final lesson her character imparted in 15.11. Now THAT is some meta madness…

[shadowpaintedrose]

Okay I stan Fortuna

[shadowpaintedrose]

Oh that’s interesting... the same actress once played a djinn on the show before.

[shadowpaintedrose]

Okay I stan Fortuna

[fangirlingtodeath513]

KNOW WHEN TO FOLD ‘EM, BOYS

[shadowpaintedrose]

Fortuna is sexy as hell, sorry, not sorry.

[shadowpaintedrose]

This is awful... I want the boys to regain their luck but I feel really bad for the people who are losing. :(

[shadowpaintedrose]

Yikes... let’s hope Dean knows when to walk away.

[lets-steal-an-archive]

misha

[lets-steal-an-archive]

misha

[shadowpaintedrose]

but oh crap, why is he standing at a crossroads with a shovel???

[mittensmorgul]

I think the biggest problem Saileen shippers are having with all of this is your attitude. You are practically GLEEFUL that it looks like things might not work out for us, and are instead using it to prop up your own ship and vindicate yourself. I think you’re too focused on being right on this one (and on many other topics.) ship whatever you want, but have the grace to let others do the same and not rub last night’s episode in our faces. Thanks.

I haven’t propped up any ship?

When I expressed dubiousness over Eileen’s miraculous sudden return after three years of zero mentions of her, and was suspicious of how she returned– which… was a legitimate thing to discuss considering the Big Bad of the season is a writer with the power to manipulate “the story” to his liking… I was… let’s be honest here and call it “attacked” for wanting to even question the narrative.

I was called “delusional,” I was called “ableist.” I was called a lot worse things, and completely bowed out of the discussion at all to AVOID stepping on the toes of people who were enjoying the relationship as they saw it. All the while attempting to discuss what was happening in actual canon without talking much about Eileen as a character. Because every time I did, the shaming began again, and sucked all the fun out of even talking about the show for me.

So, yeah. I’ve been anticipating this episode for MONTHS. When I’ve been called “delusional,” which… thanks everyone who pinned that label on me over a fictional ship… I’m feeling like I’m due an apology from the people who said those things to me, an actual human being, for wanting to talk about actual canon on the internet for fun.

I’m not trying to rub it in people’s faces… I just want to live here. Saileen might still be endgame! I haven’t said it wasn’t! They could choose each other in the end! But we need to acknowledge that their relationship to this point is FANON. I’m all for shipping them in FANON. I have literally written fic shipping them! But in canon, there’s no romance there, outside of what Chuck plotted for them.

They could absolutely CHOOSE each other in the end, despite how Chuck tried to manipulate them. But I make it a point, when I write meta of the show, to do my best to discuss canon honestly, as I see it. And I was silenced by saileen shippers for the last month and a half over exploring this huge aspect of canon.

Sorry if I’ve come off in a negative light over it. Sorry if it feels a bit like an obnoxious touchdown dance on my part here. But how I, a real human being, was treated by saileen shippers for the last month and a half because I wasn’t willing to jump on the bandwagon with both feet is frankly disturbing to me. So forgive me if I’m not entirely gracious about having been right all along.

I wasn’t willing to argue in public with the inbox full of nasty anons I’ve received, and therefore don’t have a public trail of harassment to point at here. But the fact I haven’t been talking about it in public, and resorted to mostly talking about Sam, Eileen, and their relationship in private discussions with a handful of people, should be proof enough that this wasn’t about my dislike of the ship. Like Dean in canon, I could see the potential there. I wasn’t about to step on the toes of people who were enjoying that potential, and I never ONCE interfered with people writing their own headcanons and interpretations of their relationship. And yet… y’all… I have been insulted, mocked, vagued-at, called all sorts of horrible things, just for questioning the plot of the entire season because I wasn’t willing to accept what we were seeing at face value. For months, I’ve felt like I wasn’t allowed to discuss canon openly on the internet, for fun, because I had a different take on it. So… I’m due a few hours of gloating after all that. And if you don’t think so, then I hope this sort of thing never happens to YOU. I hope you are never treated like I was for just having a differing opinion on the internet.

I promise to return to my normal level of chill, now, and will from this point forward discuss canon as I see it… as long as we can all agree that in doing so I’m not trying to invalidate anyone else’s read on things. I’m just stating my own opinion, without judgment, because that’s what meta is supposed to be.

[charlie-minion]

I’m with Mittens on this one! For over a month, we chose to discuss privately anything Eileen-related (click for proof) because if we dared question the character, we were attacked or vague-blogged about. 

Before season 15 even started, I was asked by a Saileen shipper to write meta on Samwena because they didn’t see what I saw as romantic. I didn’t want to. I just considered that it was okay for me to ship and let others ship without forcing my opinion on them. I was not here to convince anyone, and besides, I preferred to wait what canon would do with Eileen since we all knew she was coming back, and I used to be a Saileen shipper myself. 

Eileen came back and it felt shoehorned. I’m sorry if that sounds cruel, but for someone who is paying attention to the story with no shipper goggles, that’s what it felt like. It was as if the writers had brought Lisa back and shippers had claimed Lisa would be Dean’s endgame. The writing was lazy and full of plot holes (why would Eileen be able to run from the ghost town, but not Kevin, prophet of the Lord? how come they found a very convenient spell to bring her back?). For a season that has been very carefully written, it felt jarring to have such moments where you had to apply suspension of disbelief. 

Or maybe that was the point? It was Chuck all along and we called it! 

Now, I have no idea what will happen with Sam and Eileen moving forwards. Maybe once the threat of Chuck is resolved, they decide to give each other a chance. THAT would be real! Right now, they’re NOT real, and that’s why Eileen left. 

Sam hadn’t even considered the romantic aspect of their relationship until Dean suggested it, and of course, Eileen’s nudges were coming from Chuck. Sam kissed Eileen because he lost hope, he wanted to feel that he could make at least that call, but that wasn’t the way, and Eileen knew it; that’s why she left. 

Will they be endgame? I don’t know. I would NOT be against it now that the ridiculous way in which she was forced into the story has been resolved. 

We have to understand that it’s the fandom that kept Eileen alive, during seasons 13 and 14, not the show. Sam or Dean NEVER EVER mentioned her again. We didn’t even see Sam mourn her death, except for a few seconds. That doesn’t scream endgame to me, and it didn’t scream endgame to Mittens either, but we were attacked for having a different opinion. 

Have you noticed that I haven’t even mentioned Samwena in all of this? 

Because I don’t care about the ship! But I DO care about Rowena!

The same way that I see Cas as the one real thing in Dean’s life, the one thing Chuck wanted out, the one thing Chuck can’t control… that’s exactly the case with Rowena. 

The one Chuck can’t control, the one he wanted out (the prophecy), the one who was never intended by “the writer” to be a thing, just as Cas and Dean were never inteded by Chuck. 

Rowena is a character who has been present all this time. We care for her and her story arc is not over because power, ruling hell, and being queen is NOT the answer. It’s like saying that Cas ruling Heaven is the perfect endgame for him. IT MAKES NO SENSE!

So, yeah, perhaps Mittens and I ship Samwena, but not because we have our own agenda. It’s just that we’re reading the story and not choosing only the parts that we think are convenient. I spent months angry because Eileen was killed off, but I moved on because I realized Sam had done the same. It’s not Sam’s fault the fandom couldn’t do it. 

Now, if once the story is over, he chooses Eileen. Brilliant! I’m OK with that, but we cannot ignore that there’s another character whose story is not over yet, and it’s better to wait and see while we continue to enjoy the ride.  

[postmodernmulticoloredcloak]

I think that people assign different meanings to the words ‘canon’ and ‘fanon’ so when @mittensmorgul says that the Saileen relationship is fanon that elicits confusions. If I understand correctly, you mean that they never consummated feelings of attractions that may have been between them before Sam’s goodbye kiss, plus the fact that Eileen’s post-resurrection nudges towards doing that may be based on Eileen’s “real” feelings of attraction to Sam but ultimately her presence there and some pivotal event between them (like… the entire fact that Sam resurrected her into a living body!) were manufactured by Chuck and Eileen herself is questioning her feelings. Like, isn’t that the point of the last scene? Eileen doesn’t know whether the attraction there is real.

So either she takes some time, realizes she has real feelings for Sam that aren’t manipulated by any higher force, and on the other side of the duo Sam feels comfortable with a relationship and willing to have a relationship with her, and they get together, or she realizes that she likes Sam better as a friend or something, and they don’t.

I think that a lot of people were invested in the Sam/Eileen relationship initially because it was framed as rich in parallels with Dean/Cas, and when Eileen was killed everyone flipped their shit because omg does that mean they’re not doing Destiel either. And now, Sam and Eileen are being paralleled to Dean and Cas again (I don’t know what it real - this thing we have is) so I suppose there’s a certain weight, at least historically, in shipping Saileen in relation to the mothership…

I’m not a shipper of Sam with any character in a romantic sense, I “ship” Sam x witchcraft but that doesn’t necessarily mean that Sam and Rowena smooch, it also works with Rowena as a mentor with zero romantic or sexual connotations, so I don’t have personal stakes in a ship or another in the strict sense of the word. Just as a frame.

[mittensmorgul]

Ah, what I meant by their relationship is fanon is a very specific thing, which I had lobbed at me by a good number of anons… so forgive me for not clarifying sooner. I… mostly didn’t reply to them.

I’m putting this under a cut, because I typed for a really long time…

Keep reading

[mittensmorgul]

I think the biggest problem Saileen shippers are having with all of this is your attitude. You are practically GLEEFUL that it looks like things might not work out for us, and are instead using it to prop up your own ship and vindicate yourself. I think you’re too focused on being right on this one (and on many other topics.) ship whatever you want, but have the grace to let others do the same and not rub last night’s episode in our faces. Thanks.

I haven’t propped up any ship?

When I expressed dubiousness over Eileen’s miraculous sudden return after three years of zero mentions of her, and was suspicious of how she returned– which… was a legitimate thing to discuss considering the Big Bad of the season is a writer with the power to manipulate “the story” to his liking… I was… let’s be honest here and call it “attacked” for wanting to even question the narrative.

I was called “delusional,” I was called “ableist.” I was called a lot worse things, and completely bowed out of the discussion at all to AVOID stepping on the toes of people who were enjoying the relationship as they saw it. All the while attempting to discuss what was happening in actual canon without talking much about Eileen as a character. Because every time I did, the shaming began again, and sucked all the fun out of even talking about the show for me.

So, yeah. I’ve been anticipating this episode for MONTHS. When I’ve been called “delusional,” which… thanks everyone who pinned that label on me over a fictional ship… I’m feeling like I’m due an apology from the people who said those things to me, an actual human being, for wanting to talk about actual canon on the internet for fun.

I’m not trying to rub it in people’s faces… I just want to live here. Saileen might still be endgame! I haven’t said it wasn’t! They could choose each other in the end! But we need to acknowledge that their relationship to this point is FANON. I’m all for shipping them in FANON. I have literally written fic shipping them! But in canon, there’s no romance there, outside of what Chuck plotted for them.

They could absolutely CHOOSE each other in the end, despite how Chuck tried to manipulate them. But I make it a point, when I write meta of the show, to do my best to discuss canon honestly, as I see it. And I was silenced by saileen shippers for the last month and a half over exploring this huge aspect of canon.

Sorry if I’ve come off in a negative light over it. Sorry if it feels a bit like an obnoxious touchdown dance on my part here. But how I, a real human being, was treated by saileen shippers for the last month and a half because I wasn’t willing to jump on the bandwagon with both feet is frankly disturbing to me. So forgive me if I’m not entirely gracious about having been right all along.

I wasn’t willing to argue in public with the inbox full of nasty anons I’ve received, and therefore don’t have a public trail of harassment to point at here. But the fact I haven’t been talking about it in public, and resorted to mostly talking about Sam, Eileen, and their relationship in private discussions with a handful of people, should be proof enough that this wasn’t about my dislike of the ship. Like Dean in canon, I could see the potential there. I wasn’t about to step on the toes of people who were enjoying that potential, and I never ONCE interfered with people writing their own headcanons and interpretations of their relationship. And yet… y’all… I have been insulted, mocked, vagued-at, called all sorts of horrible things, just for questioning the plot of the entire season because I wasn’t willing to accept what we were seeing at face value. For months, I’ve felt like I wasn’t allowed to discuss canon openly on the internet, for fun, because I had a different take on it. So… I’m due a few hours of gloating after all that. And if you don’t think so, then I hope this sort of thing never happens to YOU. I hope you are never treated like I was for just having a differing opinion on the internet.

I promise to return to my normal level of chill, now, and will from this point forward discuss canon as I see it… as long as we can all agree that in doing so I’m not trying to invalidate anyone else’s read on things. I’m just stating my own opinion, without judgment, because that’s what meta is supposed to be.

[charlie-minion]

I’m with Mittens on this one! For over a month, we chose to discuss privately anything Eileen-related (click for proof) because if we dared question the character, we were attacked or vague-blogged about. 

Before season 15 even started, I was asked by a Saileen shipper to write meta on Samwena because they didn’t see what I saw as romantic. I didn’t want to. I just considered that it was okay for me to ship and let others ship without forcing my opinion on them. I was not here to convince anyone, and besides, I preferred to wait what canon would do with Eileen since we all knew she was coming back, and I used to be a Saileen shipper myself. 

Eileen came back and it felt shoehorned. I’m sorry if that sounds cruel, but for someone who is paying attention to the story with no shipper goggles, that’s what it felt like. It was as if the writers had brought Lisa back and shippers had claimed Lisa would be Dean’s endgame. The writing was lazy and full of plot holes (why would Eileen be able to run from the ghost town, but not Kevin, prophet of the Lord? how come they found a very convenient spell to bring her back?). For a season that has been very carefully written, it felt jarring to have such moments where you had to apply suspension of disbelief. 

Or maybe that was the point? It was Chuck all along and we called it! 

Now, I have no idea what will happen with Sam and Eileen moving forwards. Maybe once the threat of Chuck is resolved, they decide to give each other a chance. THAT would be real! Right now, they’re NOT real, and that’s why Eileen left. 

Sam hadn’t even considered the romantic aspect of their relationship until Dean suggested it, and of course, Eileen’s nudges were coming from Chuck. Sam kissed Eileen because he lost hope, he wanted to feel that he could make at least that call, but that wasn’t the way, and Eileen knew it; that’s why she left. 

Will they be endgame? I don’t know. I would NOT be against it now that the ridiculous way in which she was forced into the story has been resolved. 

We have to understand that it’s the fandom that kept Eileen alive, during seasons 13 and 14, not the show. Sam or Dean NEVER EVER mentioned her again. We didn’t even see Sam mourn her death, except for a few seconds. That doesn’t scream endgame to me, and it didn’t scream endgame to Mittens either, but we were attacked for having a different opinion. 

Have you noticed that I haven’t even mentioned Samwena in all of this? 

Because I don’t care about the ship! But I DO care about Rowena!

The same way that I see Cas as the one real thing in Dean’s life, the one thing Chuck wanted out, the one thing Chuck can’t control… that’s exactly the case with Rowena. 

The one Chuck can’t control, the one he wanted out (the prophecy), the one who was never intended by “the writer” to be a thing, just as Cas and Dean were never inteded by Chuck. 

Rowena is a character who has been present all this time. We care for her and her story arc is not over because power, ruling hell, and being queen is NOT the answer. It’s like saying that Cas ruling Heaven is the perfect endgame for him. IT MAKES NO SENSE!

So, yeah, perhaps Mittens and I ship Samwena, but not because we have our own agenda. It’s just that we’re reading the story and not choosing only the parts that we think are convenient. I spent months angry because Eileen was killed off, but I moved on because I realized Sam had done the same. It’s not Sam’s fault the fandom couldn’t do it. 

Now, if once the story is over, he chooses Eileen. Brilliant! I’m OK with that, but we cannot ignore that there’s another character whose story is not over yet, and it’s better to wait and see while we continue to enjoy the ride.  

[mittensmorgul]

I think the biggest problem Saileen shippers are having with all of this is your attitude. You are practically GLEEFUL that it looks like things might not work out for us, and are instead using it to prop up your own ship and vindicate yourself. I think you’re too focused on being right on this one (and on many other topics.) ship whatever you want, but have the grace to let others do the same and not rub last night’s episode in our faces. Thanks.

I haven’t propped up any ship?

When I expressed dubiousness over Eileen’s miraculous sudden return after three years of zero mentions of her, and was suspicious of how she returned– which… was a legitimate thing to discuss considering the Big Bad of the season is a writer with the power to manipulate “the story” to his liking… I was… let’s be honest here and call it “attacked” for wanting to even question the narrative.

I was called “delusional,” I was called “ableist.” I was called a lot worse things, and completely bowed out of the discussion at all to AVOID stepping on the toes of people who were enjoying the relationship as they saw it. All the while attempting to discuss what was happening in actual canon without talking much about Eileen as a character. Because every time I did, the shaming began again, and sucked all the fun out of even talking about the show for me.

So, yeah. I’ve been anticipating this episode for MONTHS. When I’ve been called “delusional,” which… thanks everyone who pinned that label on me over a fictional ship… I’m feeling like I’m due an apology from the people who said those things to me, an actual human being, for wanting to talk about actual canon on the internet for fun.

I’m not trying to rub it in people’s faces… I just want to live here. Saileen might still be endgame! I haven’t said it wasn’t! They could choose each other in the end! But we need to acknowledge that their relationship to this point is FANON. I’m all for shipping them in FANON. I have literally written fic shipping them! But in canon, there’s no romance there, outside of what Chuck plotted for them.

They could absolutely CHOOSE each other in the end, despite how Chuck tried to manipulate them. But I make it a point, when I write meta of the show, to do my best to discuss canon honestly, as I see it. And I was silenced by saileen shippers for the last month and a half over exploring this huge aspect of canon.

Sorry if I’ve come off in a negative light over it. Sorry if it feels a bit like an obnoxious touchdown dance on my part here. But how I, a real human being, was treated by saileen shippers for the last month and a half because I wasn’t willing to jump on the bandwagon with both feet is frankly disturbing to me. So forgive me if I’m not entirely gracious about having been right all along.

I wasn’t willing to argue in public with the inbox full of nasty anons I’ve received, and therefore don’t have a public trail of harassment to point at here. But the fact I haven’t been talking about it in public, and resorted to mostly talking about Sam, Eileen, and their relationship in private discussions with a handful of people, should be proof enough that this wasn’t about my dislike of the ship. Like Dean in canon, I could see the potential there. I wasn’t about to step on the toes of people who were enjoying that potential, and I never ONCE interfered with people writing their own headcanons and interpretations of their relationship. And yet… y’all… I have been insulted, mocked, vagued-at, called all sorts of horrible things, just for questioning the plot of the entire season because I wasn’t willing to accept what we were seeing at face value. For months, I’ve felt like I wasn’t allowed to discuss canon openly on the internet, for fun, because I had a different take on it. So… I’m due a few hours of gloating after all that. And if you don’t think so, then I hope this sort of thing never happens to YOU. I hope you are never treated like I was for just having a differing opinion on the internet.

I promise to return to my normal level of chill, now, and will from this point forward discuss canon as I see it… as long as we can all agree that in doing so I’m not trying to invalidate anyone else’s read on things. I’m just stating my own opinion, without judgment, because that’s what meta is supposed to be.

[shadowpaintedrose]

The discussion is overdue. It’s not about going “poo-poo, I hate this ship and I’m celebrating its failure.” Anyone with a functioning brain should realize that that’s clearly not where Mittens is coming from on this.

We’ve all felt at some point a certain sense of satisfaction when we recognize something in the narrative that turns out to be true. Neither Mittens, nor I, nor anyone else is going “Wooo the ship is dead!” It’s more like, “Cool, I recognized that there was something wrong here. I’m glad that that turned out to be the case rather than the hamfisted romance it would have been otherwise.” It still has the potential to build back up healthily, and that would be fine. But this isn’t some grand romance at this very moment, and it shouldn’t be. Both Sam and Eileen have some healing they need to do.