Through dangers untold

fake lain created by the knights to troll the real one

[shivalain]

The whole end of MAF makes no sense to me.

Tamlin and Jurian side with KoH, but later we find that both were just spying.

But Jurian prevents Rhysand and co. from nullifying the Cauldron, which would have solved 50% of their problems right away, and shoots Azriel.

But later it's established that he at least was always a good guy, so why would he do that?

I can explain Tamlin: he's unaware that there's a way to nullify the Cauldron so he assumes the wall would be destroyed and his court would take the brunt of Hybern's attack. He goes to KoH to negotiate a solution that would see his ppl relatively unharmed.

But Jurian. Even given his position, why did he stop the IC from escaping?

Like... This is where I throw up my hands and declare that SJM needs to stop with her "spy" bullshit and start writing characters actions with their motivations in mind instead of blindly choosing names from a list and crafting a convoluted reasoning later.

If I'm missing something, tell me, please.

P.s.: this is not anti-whatever character, I am not looking at them as people here and assigning blame, for the context of this post they are letters on a page that don't make sense to me

[shivalain]

A year (year?) later I came up with a theory that maybe, maaaaybe, explains Jurian's behavior in MAF and parts of WAR where he's sitting on his ass in Frank's camp watching Children if the Blessed being tortured to death.

Let's keep in mind that this guy was last alive during the war of independence fighting against fae, then sent the next 500 years as a passive observer of the most anti-human part of fae society.

So he does actually want a war between Prythian and Hybern, because what's not to want in fae fighting and obliterating each other, since nothing in his loooong experience proves that they are anything but monsters? They can all go die, then when it's time, Jurian can take care of the Cauldron and leave Frank with his pants down.

As for the CotB or the queens, in Jurian's mind they are traitors and collaborators and deserve to perish along with their fae masters, with bonus points of serving as a wake up call to the rest if humanity, since it got way too complacent in the last 500 years.

[shivalain]

Ranwan become truly interesting and logical if we see their relations in 2.0 universe as a product of CWN 0.5 trying to realize his vision of "good" MR and through that vision love himself. Which explains why MR tries to imitate CWN and why he gains such an insite in CWNs true needs without the other really developing any communication skills.

[shivalain]

I wonder if Feyre not wanting to see Tamlin ever again expressed in ACOFAS is a result of suppressed guilt more than of anything else.

[shivalain]

Helena doesn't spark joy so much I am literally more invested in Dr. Effective Project Manager Can Make 9 Women Delivery a Baby in 1 Month Staut. At least she's busy doing something.

[starlit-plum-blossoms]

This may be a controversial opinion but...

That’s already a pretty long list of dishonourable things she’s done, while I understand it was for survival and Mo Ran’s done worse, it beggars the question of culpability, if it’s for survival does it automatically excuse all cruelty or evil? Even with Mo Ran, I struggled a lot in the first few volumes with his past deeds but seeing him repent and try to do better is selling me on his character development. Song Qiutong on the other hand, has the same personality almost to a tee, with how she frames up Ye Wangxi in vol 5 to try to save her own skin.

[shivalain]

Let's reframe: Song Qiutong betrayed the sect which was famous for the poor treatment of women, the sect run by the same people who likely visited the butterfly farm of Guyuye, and wasn't sad when this sect was destroyed. And she confessed that Ye Wangxi treated her poorly - same Ye Wangxi is shown to be pretty mean to Song Qiutong on 2.0 once Song Qiutong leaves her for Nangong Si.

Once you strip Mo Ran's characterization nothing is as sinister as it seems in his pov.

[acourtofthought]

Elain chose to go back to Graysen.

She chose to flirt with Az.

She's choosing to ignore Lucien.

Yet some still claim the mating bond takes away her choice?

She is out there, free to do WHATEVER she wants to do as it relates to romance.

Can she help the draw she has to Lucien because of the bond, the thread connecting them? No, but I couldn't seem to help the draw I had to an ex boyfriend even though he was terrible to date. I still chose to end that relationship despite having feelings for him because I knew it wasn't going to work (and it's obvious Sarah did not write Lucien to be like any of our worst exes). "Biology"- if that's all some want to chalk the Elucien mating bond up to - still doesn't take away free will.

These characters don't get to pick their mates, the bonds were decided by fate long before the sisters were born but they do get to choose what they do with their bonds, especially with a mate like Lucien Vanserra who has never exercised any ownership over Elain. Literally, Rhys tells Feyre "there is choice".

Another choice Elain has made? Not to reject her bond though she could have done so any time in the last 2 years. All the times Lucien was in the Night Court, all the times he supposedly made her uncomfortable yet she still chose to continue accepting his gifts (you cannot convince me of her disinterest in him while she still readily lets him buy her things - a good person would not do that), still chose to acknowledge him as her mate, still chose to sit in the room with him despite having full agency over her voice - a voice she could have used to ask him to leave her alone and stop coming to family gatherings.

The Azriel bonus tells us Elain knows why he stood in the doorway at Solstice, that she understands her bond with Lucien bothers him.

Yet she has also chosen to keep her bond with Lucien despite the discomfort it brings to Az.

If she cared for Azriel as some say she does than she'd have no problem putting his feelings before Lucien's. Before her own book she told Lucien about the man she was supposed to marry and her sorrow over having lost him. Before her own book she declared her love to Graysen in front of an entire group of people, despite the hostility that was radiating off some of them.

Elain has a voice and she's shown she knows how to use it. That's she's never used it to reject her bond or tell others of her feelings for Az tells me all I need to know about who she's going to end up with.

[shivalain]

Elain is only able to do all this because she is aware of the bond and it's consequences, and is surrounded by people able and willing to support her in her choices (for however long it benefits their leader, but still).

This isn't a jab at Elain, this is a counterargument to all claims that Feyre's lack of awareness about the bond didn't in any way matter in her falling for Rhysand.

[silver-flames-of-dusk]

Feyre could slaughter an entire village of children, and people would say she's kind, caring, and selfless.

Nesta could save an entire village of children, and people would say she's hateful, uncaring, selfish, and self-absorbed.

[shivalain]

Feyre would buy into a scheme concocted by a blood-drinking angel of death and break a reality-anchoring item, and she would still be praised as the savior of the realm.

Nesta would agree to support an ally from another world and land her a powerful artifact with her family as collateral, and ppl would agree with Rhys tearing her a new one for it.

[shivalain]

Pluribus ep.5 spoilers under the cut

Bodies, right? These are bodies in the freezer? The hivemind was loading then into milk trucks back in ep.2.

[thrumbolt]

Top 5 most annoying Tamlin scene misinterpretations

1. ''There is no such thing as a high lady'' I hate this one, because it is always taken as some sort of proof that Tamlin is a raging misogynist who doesn't want an equal woman by his side or some similar type of nonsense. I don't know where this is coming from. Tamlin never wanted to be a high lord. He would probably welcome for someone to take over most of the work so he could just keep running through the woods. He also has absolutely no issues with taking advice from women in power (Ianthe? Hello??). His first reaction to the high lady question is literally this:

“Is everyone just going to call me ‘Tamlin’s wife’? Do I get a … title?” He lifted his head long enough to look at me. “Do you want a title?”

And let's not forget that Feyre's first reply is ''No, I don’t know if I can handle them calling me High Lady”. To which he then answers that she doesn't have to worry about that, since ''there is no such thing as a high lady'' because the magic choses the title and it keeps chosing males. Also this whole scene happens while he eats her out. Not that it's relevant or anything, just saying...

2. ''Tamlin killed Rhys' family'' No. Tamlin's dad killed Rhys' family. I have no idea how Tamlin doing it is ever the takeaway from that whole story. Let's just quote the actual scene:

“Tamlin’s father, brothers, and Tamlin himself set out into the Illyrian wilderness, having heard from Tamlin—from me—where my mother and sister would be, that I had plans to see them. I was supposed to be there. I wasn’t. And they slaughtered my mother and sister anyway.”

Yeah okay, Tamlin gave the information (supposedly) and was there (supposedly) sure, but it's highly unlikely that he was so willingly. Let's not forget that it's established that Tamlin was afraid of his father, that Tamlin's father is worse than Beron (who, I might remind you, tortures his sons) and that Tamlin was friends with Rhys at the time - which neither family approved of. Even Rhys doesn't actually believe Tamlin did anything besides being spineless:

''I didn’t care that Tamlin had been there, had allowed them to kill my mother and sister, that he’d come to kill me because he didn’t want to risk standing against them.''

In the end we don't know the details. Tamlin could've been tortured and tied up or whatever. Making him watch could've been a cruel form of punishment for being friends with Rhys. We don't really know until SJM graces us with Tamlin's side of the story.

3. ''It's really Tamlin's own fault that the spring court fell'' Alternatively also phrased as: 'Feyre just opened everyone's eyes to Tamlin's incompetence' and....honestly? This low key makes me question the reading comprehension of people.

Yes, Tamlin made a deal with Hybern, which was extremely risky, but the war was coming regardless (as we learn from Rhys in the first half of ACOMAF) and the spring court would be the main target because of its location next to the wall. Inviting Hybern into his lands in a trade is actually a pretty smart way to avoid a lot of death on Tamlin's part - plus he needed help to rescue Feyre and get her out of the deal she had with Rhysand (people forget that Tamlin didn't know Feyre didn't actually need rescuing from the guy that was abusing her in front of him in ACOTAR).

So yeah anyway, Feyre did several things to make the spring court fall: 1. She manipulated the solstice ceremony to make herself seem cauldron-blessed in the eyes of the people, 2. She made a sentry accuse Ianthe (who WAS doing sneaky shit) which essentially did nothing except putting Tamlin on the spot in front of Hybern, so he was kind of forced to throw the sentry under the bus. Good job Feyre, you got a poor sod whipped! But it also built resentment within the soldiers, which was her plan all along and 3. before leaving, she did this (let's just quote the whole thing):

''I had a people who had lost faith in their High Priestess. I had sentries who were beginning to rebel against their High Lord. And as a result of those things, I had Hybern royals doubting the strength of their allies here. I’d primed this court to fall. Not from outside forces—but its own internal warring. And I had to be clear of it before it happened. Before the last sliver of my plan fell into place. The party would return without me. And to maintain that illusion of strength, Tamlin and Ianthe would lie about it—where I’d gone. And perhaps a day or two after that, one of these sentries would reveal the news, a carefully sprung trap that I’d coiled into his mind like one of my snares. I’d fled for my life—after being nearly killed by the Hybern prince and princess. I’d planted images in his head of my brutalized body, the markings consistent with what Dagdan and Brannagh had already revealed to be their style. He’d describe them in detail—describe how he helped me get away before it was too late. How I ran for my life when Tamlin and Ianthe refused to intervene, to risk their alliance with Hybern. And when the sentry revealed the truth, no longer able to stomach keeping quiet when he saw how my sorry fate was concealed by Tamlin and Ianthe, just as Tamlin had sided with Ianthe the day he’d flogged that sentry …When he described what Hybern had done to me, their Cursebreaker, their newly anointed Cauldron-blessed, before I’d fled for my life … There would be no further alliance. For there would be no sentry or denizen of this court who would stand with Tamlin or Ianthe after this. After me.''

So, the sentries left Tamlin because of a lie. A fake story. Without sentries, Hybern decided to take over rather than just be guests and had a prime spot to attack the summer court in turn. Which is also why Tarquin is extremely pissed at Feyre - not Tamlin. So no, Tamlin wasn't a bad high lord. His only real mistake was ever trusting Feyre.

Sure, some argue that Feyre thought Tamlin genuinely sided with Hybern and might be a threat to the rest of Prythian, so taking him down would make sense for her even outside of petty revenge. But there's just one problem with that: Feyre is a mind reader. She could have just.....checked. lol

4. ''Tamlin didn't do anything Under the Mountain'' This one really gets my goat because it's not really true? Things Tamlin did to help Feyre: 1. He sent her away to the human realm. (People forget this, but he basically doomed his court to protect her ass - it's not his fault she came back!) 2. He made Lucien check up on her. (Yes Lucien was Feyre's friend but he still acted under Tamlin's orders!) 3. He ignored Feyre as to not rile Amarantha up even more (Come on, have you seen Amarantha? It totally makes sense) 4. He tries to get to Feyre, begging Amarantha to stop even as he is tied up, bleeding out from a stab wound to his chest that he can't heal because he has no powers - like what do you want him to do??? 4. He literally kills Amarantha the second he is able to

Also personal conspiracy detour: That music that Rhysand supposedly sent to Feyre was SO originally supposed to be Tamlin, you can't convince me otherwise. I will never not believe that this wasn't just a lazily done quick change when SJM rewrote book 1 and 2 to account for the boyfriend switcheroo. Attributing the music to Rhys makes absolutely zero sense. He's not a musical boy at all, come on! Music themes never come up with him again either! Meanwhile Tamlin played for Feyre before, is generally a musical guy COME ON! /conspiracy detour over

5. ''It's Tamlin's fault that Nesta and Elaine got turned to fae'' No. No it's not. He knew nothing about this. Ianthe did this on her own accord because Feyre told her where her sister's lived. Tamlin actually attacks (!) the King of Hybern over it (to no avail, but still).

Some people blame Tamlin for keeping Ianthe around afterwards, despite of what she did. Those people I want to refer to point number 3 in this list. Ianthe was working with Hybern. Tamlin tried to be buddies with Hybern for reasons. No, he can't just throw out Ianthe.

[shivalain]

I was today's years old when I realized that Tamlin's behavior in WAR was not a natural response to Feyre's provocations. No, he was fully aware of the shitty things he was doing, but he had to do them still in order to keep his cover and continue spying on Hybern.

When he punishes the guards he's knows the story is sus, but he has to go through with the whipping because he can't expose Ianthe - just like (as the OP says correctly) he can't kick her out from the SC. She's there as Hybern's watchdog, Tamlin can't touch her without risking his access.

Feyre doesn't just force a clueless leader to fall into her schemes and shred his own reputation - she nearly blows up a carefully (by ACOTAR standards) constructed cover, leaving Tamlin with no choice but to use drastic measures to preserve what's left of it through violence.

If only she caught up on the clues Lucien was giving her about the whole situation...

[shivalain]

The fact that Rhys decides to move Cassian from his position as the general of Illyrian forces into an ill-defined adviser/ambassador for special affairs role is ridiculous.

The fact that Cassian lacks confidence or situational awareness to tell Rhys he spent years building a military career and doesn't think moving him is the right decision, especially considering the circumstances, is sad. P.S.: unless we assume Rhys removed Cassian to prevent him from gaining too much control over newly pacified Illyrians (since it was at the moment of the move presumed that the ringleaders of the discontent within the camps were eliminated). Than Rhys is sneaky, and Cassian is oblivious.

[shivalain]

I keep seeing a repeating topic in SJM's books and now with Rebecca Yarros too: an FMC demanding that her love interest trusts her, prioritizes her and is loyal to her above others. This is how she determines whether the relations between them are true as opposed to the relations with the inevitable secondary love interest, who "shows his true colors" by mistrusting, or misunderstanding, or having split loyalties.

Feyre, Aelin, Violet (I don't remember about Bryce because I remember nothing about Bryce), the story makes a point of it for all of them, creating a notable clue for who's the true love and who's the other inevitably bad guy.

Which I would be fine with, except for the fact that our FMCs usually start the story relatively alone - for the smoother insertion into the worlds of their male love interests. They are usually unbound by close ties, prior responsibilities or causes, which they will pick up during the journey in alignment with the MLCs. While the other guy normally comes with a baggage of complex relations, often with a job or assignment that is at odds with the needs of the FMC. So she rarely has to face the choice the other guy is facing, rarely has to navigate or reflect upon navigating the maze of conflicting relations and reconciling the sides other characters reveal to her during those conflicts.

At least she rarely has to do it first, and we all know that once the loyalty is betrayed, the bond between her and the other guys is devalued to the point of meaningless.

I guess what I am trying to say the FMC can never be held to the same high standard of loyalty and this is due to the lack of meaningful relation and duties in her life that predate the beginning of the story.

(I know, I know, Jude Duarte is not like that, I really wish Holly Black was my type of writer and I could enjoy her stories)

[shivalain]

I had a thought.

(nothing good ever started with this)

I used to be convinced that Daddy A truly was incapable of providing for his daughters due to a debilitating depression.

But.

Nesta pre-SF was confident he could.

Nesta pre-SF is also absolutely the same character type as Agnes van Rhijn from The Gilded Age. She's insufferably direct to the point of rudeness, she defends her boundaries at the expense of kindness, she's extremely demanding, but she's also sharp and sees through people.

If this is her archetype then we can take her words on faith and assume Daddy A was capable of at least attempting to provide for her daughters. Which puts the situation in the cabin and the conflict between Feyre and Nesta in a different light and revalidates the resolution for this conflict they achieved in TAR (where Nesta explained her decisions and acknowledged their impact on Feyre).

The fact that it becomes an issue again in SF is then partially due to pressure on Nesta from the IC and partially, I supposed, from disconnect between Feyre, who thinks it's all past them (after all Nesta she knows is a person confident in her truths), and Nesta who is extremely vulnerable and for the first time in her life needs validation of those truths from external sources.

[youareatragedy]

Literally just saw someone say, “I hope Nesta’s pregnant in the next book so Nessian’s anti can stop blah blah blah.” Like wtf?

What the fuck indeed. So according to that person, the answer to readers rightly so critiquing Cassian, an almost 600 year old man, for his lack of loyalty and care for his MATE and “true love” is to trap a 26 year old powerful woman with a baby?? Truly this fucking fandom is exhausting. So fucking persistent in pushing “traditional femininity” as if we’ve forgotten that to this day, Nesta is still one of the most hated characters in Acotar just because she’s not “nice and pleasant”. Fuck off.

[grimseverity]

If Nesta is pregnant in ACOTAR6 I will lose my fucking mind. After all the plot points she has with Bryce, the Trove, and the rest.

[shivalain]

This is the epitome of: I have no fear to I have one fear memo.

[shivalain]

I just had a tiny epiphany about Feyre's behavior in MAF.

I mean we all know that her insisting to be involved in action is because she's trying to avoid processing the events UTM.

But I just realized that she's also afraid of becoming her father. She cannot accept being incapacitated by her trauma, and doing what she considers fluffy useless tasks akin to carving worthless wooden decorations increases this discomfort. Which is why she is eager to engage in almost anything Rhysand suggests as long as he frames it as productive heroic activity.

Tamlin, on the other hand, focuses on just the wrong thing - Feyre and how she needs to recover from her trauma, which she translates multiple times into feeling like a burden.

And we can trace a direct line from here to the reasons Feyre saw no issues with Rhysand's plan for Nesta's "healing" in SF, as it focused on work and productivity.

Now, I warn you - if you come into the comments and tell me the fandom realized all of this years ago and I'm being slow to catch up I will cry.

[msbrownwithacrown]

“Do you know how much money that is? Do you know how embarrassed I was when we got the bill this morning and my friends—my family—had to hear all about it?”

“It is about how it reflects upon me, upon Rhys, and upon my court when my damned sister spends our money on wine and gambling and does nothing to contribute to this city! If my sister cannot be controlled, then why should we have the right to rule over anyone else?”

So Feyre is allowed to be embarrassed about Nesta spending money and for it reflecting poorly on her court...

But Tamlin's not allowed to be embarrassed or feel like it undermines his court when Feyre gave away the heirloom jewelry he had given her as a gift...

Also Tamlin is a villain for locking Feyre up, but Feyre and company aren't villains for locking Nesta up.

But it's different.... Nesta is underweight. Depressed. Not handling her new form/powers.

Ahem how is that different?

Hypocritical much.

[nestababe-deactivated20250819]

I think we collectively don’t talk enough about this line

“If my sister cannot be controlled, then why should we have the right to rule over anyone else?”

Just the fact that they think that in order to rule you have to be able to control people.

The NC doesn’t need control it needs leadership, someone who can lead and empower its citizens who can execute their authority without it being so manipulative . F*ysand will never be good ‘rulers’ if they don’t learn the difference between leadership and control.

Reminder, if someone has a lot of power and starts being buddy-buddy with you and their whole aim is to control you then they are being manipulative and abusing their authority.

[shivalain]

Note to self: examine how Feyre's own fears and insecurities are reflected in her approach to Nesta.

Why would Feyre of all people be so concerned with breaking social customs? She wasn't before.

Does she feel inadequate to her current position? Is she afraid people find her an embarrassment?

(I hate tagging this type of analysis as anti- but I guess it might be seen as such)

[shivalain]

Too stupid post #100500: smn on TikTok just opened my eyes to the fact that the whole story about Nesta seducing a Duke happened when she was 14, so, long after Mommy A died, and at that point Archerons still had enough money and access to be at society balls.

This is also when Feyre is 11, just starting to learn hunting and swimming.

Then somewhere after this Daddy A looses his fortune and they slide into poverty.

I don't yet understand the whole scope of reframing happening in my head but this changes so much about how I imagined the sisters' lives.

[shivalain]

I'm watching The Gilded Age (hence my sudden usage of outdated phrases. Isn't it weird how every piece of media affects your language when you're not a native speaker?), and Aunt Agnes is 100% Nesta if mommy Archeron died when she was of marriageable age.

[shivalain]

I am on season 2 (finally) and I urgently need a fic in which Nesta goes to marry the Duke before her fortune runs out, and the whole family finds itself a part of the higher society, except, of course, Daddy A and poor Feyre, whom he takes with him as he breaks away from the greater family. Now years later after he passes away Feyre comes to live with her sisters... But she did kill a wolf, and Amarantha is coming, and King of H does have his plans, so nothing is as peaceful as it looks...