Unbetitelt

[fandomenemy-deactivated20220402]

i find it so funny how mad that lot get when we use the term fake-arya. “jeyne’s her own character” she’s a plot device. she has no narrative of her own, she is a symbol. a mcguffin, even. the reason the north is rallying & jon betrays his vows is because they all think she is ARYA. she isn’t real, she is used by the author in this way. you can criticise george for using a young girl’s abuse & trauma to develop two male characters, but stop pestering arya stans for talking about canon, it’s getting ridiculous.

I think the funniest thing about the fake!Arya is meant to referred into a certain storyline not to disregard Jeyne . Arya stans use this term as an argument for Arya's connection to the North politics in the story .And yes you right , the North and Jon marched because they thought she was Arya .

Regarding Jeyne , her existence so far as a character is used to develop other POVS .First with Sansa and then with Theon and Jon . She might have development later on as a character ,but so far the author has used her in this specific way.

Criticize him all you want , but stop accusing Arya stans for mocking Jeyne or anything like that.

[intheairwewilllookmonstrous]

I agree. Jeyne's arc is "being used" unfortunately, and although it is gruesome and we may hope she'll survive and heal, it is the truth.

If only stans of more privileged, noble characters would see it as a contrast between "suffering Ladies" who have brothers and rallying armies and this girl, not a peasant, but not significant enough, and even without her father as her sole protector.

[silverdust09]

LoL ....lets travle back in time to 2015....when Show Sansa was married to Ramsay and raped. I remember quite clearly how the Sansa fans were all upset about it and claimed that the Show Writers made the whole rape stuff much worse than it was in the books while Show Sansa was treated pretty lenient compared to the shit Jeyne Poole endured (Like being raped by Ramsays dogs? I somtimes wonder what George was smoking when he wrote that). Some people even argued that in defense of the Show Writers, which I did not agree with completely, but some of these Sansa Stans were quite vocal how Sansa is a more important character than Jeyne Poole and that nobody gives a fuck about Jeyne anyway and it is not the same. I for one hope Jeyne gets Ramsays rotting head on a pike and gets to tell Sansa to fuck herself for running to Cersei and basically indirectly causing her torture and rape by Ramsay. Honestly, Jeyne is a minor character, but like Jeyne Westerling, I hope she gets a good ending. She deserves it far more than Sansa imo.

[courtesanofbraavos-deactivated2]

Why does quaithe tell Dany not to trust Tyrion?

The glass candles are burning. Soon comes the pale mare, and after her the others. Kraken and dark flame, lion and griffin, the sun's son and the mummer's dragon. Trust none of them. Remember the Undying. Beware the perfumed seneschal.

And who is "dark flame"?

Hmm, I’m not sure, I think we have to wait and see how their relationship develops :/ Quentyn is there as well but he didn’t intend to harm her or anything. Any thoughts, everyone?

[intheairwewilllookmonstrous]

Quentyn never tried to harm her, but in the end he was not to be trusted BC he went behind her back try and steal her dragons when she refused his marriage offer (or at least told him Westerosi marriages are put on hold for the time being), but he is the sun's son.

Dark flame wasn't something related to Victarion?

[silverdust09]

I always assumed the Darkflame was Moqorro? The lion is Tyrion or maybe Cersei? The griffin is JonCon the sun´s son is Quent The kraken could be either Vic or Euron I am torn on the perfumed seneschal= Reznak fits, but I am leaning more towards Varys? The mummers dragon is FAegon or Varys? No clue

[meereen]

Antis: This fandom really be hating little girls who are 11-14 and thinking they're the villian in this story...... But also Anti Daenerys! Tyrant since the start, will die a villian as foreshadowed, not a single good thing about this nasty bitch

Daenerys: is 13-14 in the first book, is only 16 in the last book and is flawed like every other character

[silverdust09]

I dont think that has anything to do with her age, though. You have to take into consideration who many of these people are who read these books. Some of them are people who have read these books for 25 years...and they have convinced themselves that a song of ice and fire is no conventional story where someone like Dany can just be a hero frees slaves. No, there needs to be a hidden twist which involves George setting up Dany to be the main villian with hidden clues only the most detailed interpreter can get. Then, you also have those who simply hate Dany (aka Jonasas) who just jumped on the bandwagon and will like any theory which confirms their bias and at last we have the dudebros who cannot fantom the idea that a female character does something beyond being a walking vagina for the main character or might actually desire power? Its the same guys who are completely fine if their dudebro main character does all that and acts like a complete asshole. He is just a misunderstood dude if he kills some people along the way, but beware if a woman does something bad. She is a bitch, an evil seductress, a monster and a tyrant. The age factor could be insofor relevant as the same dudebros and special snowflakes who think a song of ice and fire makes them more intelligent than the rest of the fantasy reading population are often leering at anything YA which is directed at teenage girls, because of course anything that includes teenage girls is infantile and only for the dumber parts of society. To sum it up, most of these views can be found even 1000s years ago when roman writers spent a lot of time tarnishing the reputation of several roman women like Livia and Masselina etc. Sexism is the root of all these problems and when it comes to the Jonsas and Elia Stans it is simple internalized sexism.

[courtesanofbraavos-deactivated2]

the time when I start copy posting the arguments of a USA military dude and an inscect, you can all cancel me. The Meeren =Iraq was originally from a guy serving USA military.

Ewww, ewww, ewww, don’t even remind me of them. Lawyer whatever is also a proud military person and when I found out about it all their anti Targaryen/Dany/Rhaegar takes finally made sense to me.

[vivacissimx]

this is genuinely something that has always discomfited me, and i don't think criticisms of so-called "big name" fandom bloggers are complete without noting that: a not-insignificant part of their meta comes directly from the mouths of proud footsoldiers to american imperialism.

those are people whose worldview is fervently anti-people's movements, drenched in status quo apologism, and obviously entirely racist/misogynist. yet that's what passes in the asoiaf fandom for an acceptable viewpoint because, of course, these people are all friends with one another and don't see any issue.

speaking personally for a second: i wore the hijab for many years and grew up in the DC/Maryland region directly post-9/11. if you're familiar, you know that the group of people you should always, always avoid if you're muslim, of color, visibly queer etc. are drunk soldiers. i also worked food service for a long time and my boss was a creep, but even he let me work in the kitchen/away from military types when they came in. not because he cared about me, but because those guys were nearly always abrasive and at times violent. it was dangerous and risked business.

the fact that it's this type of person who is revered as an authority in this fandom, handing them the exact same position of power they abuse in real life, is disappointing. but it's not really surprising.

[silverdust09]

I still dont get where these people get the idea that George based the idea of Meereen on Irak and Afghanistan? He presumedly started writing the last two books, which should have been one book in the first place after 1999 and we knew he wanted to publish the fourth quite soon and never expected Feast would take till 2005 when it was I think published? Some of the parts of Dany and Arya we have now are probably written long before Afghanistan and Irak. Not to mention, I still fail what Meereen has to do with Irak and Afghanistan? Both were fairly stable countries which did not build their entire business on slavery? Not saying that they are saints. Yes, woman have a shit life in Afghanistan and and Irak and I dont weep for Osama and Saddam, but these wars were fought tor two reasons: oil and revenge. Bush never gave a fig about rebuilding Afghanistan like Dany tries to do in Meereen. Yes, it is hard and it will take many yeas, but just because something is hard to does not mean it is not worthwile. Americans are so lazy, seriously. They expect everything to happen in such a quick time when building stuff always takes a long time. And even if Dany just seeded the sprouts of freedom in Mereeen it is not something you can take away from the freedmen. They will remember it and not want to go back to the old system. That is worth some bloodshed of slavers. Dany is nothing like Bush and Dick Cheney, who never cared about freeing anyone. They just wanted money for their weapon industry friends and to boost their egos. It also goes against what George said himself, namely that there are wars worth fighting for. He said he would have fought in WW2.

[silverdust09]

I have an honest question as a Book Dany fan: What if George will really frame her as a mad queen in the books and have her die by Jons hands? Will you guys still defend him?

Because sometimes when I read metas here I get the feeling that no one here really considers the possibility that George RR Martin might be just a man after all, who has written sexistic portrayals of characters like Cersei and Lysa. Maybe I am just insane, but the fact that the only chicks who are allowed to hate their husbands for raping them are Lysa and Cersei and both are framed as villians? The fact that he did call dragons weapons of mass destruction is also worrying to me. I want to believe that he will do it better, but then I have moments where I absolutely do not trust him anymore given how often he has lied in the past. Plus he did parise that essay by Feldman saying he got it and we all know what the guy wrote. Maybe it is just me wanting to protect myself, but the fact that he was silent on how dirty they did Dany makes me deeply afraid.

[fandomenemy-deactivated20220402]

People in this fandom legit say stuff like this and then demand their theories to be taken seriously :

[silverdust09]

I dont know what human rights they are referring to, but Articel 4 of the Human Rights Declaration is quite clear in its meaning: Article 4 No one shall be held in slavery or servitude; slavery and the slave trade shall be prohibited in all their forms.

[silverdust09]

The a song of ice and fire fandom is full of right wingers

These days I only go to the a song of ice and fire sub to look if there is an update on WoW and today I found another thread of Dany is evil because she killed slavers: https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/qczypg/spoilers_main_what_is_up_with_the_people/ Seriously, I wonder if George RR Martin is aware that a large part of hsi fandom is made up by right winger and slavery supporters? I mean the guy was obiviously a hippy and ia a pacificst. How can they get the idea that George would have Dany free slaves and then turn her into the ultimate villian? Like do they actually know anything about the guy?

[intheairwewilllookmonstrous]

He also often talks of believing in the unity of the seven kingdoms as the better way, but a large portion of his ‘fans’ go NORTHEXIT! NORTHEXIT! INDEPENDENCE BECAUSE THE STARKS ARE SPECIAL-EST!!!

[silverdust09]

Yes, but honestly, there are people in this sub who constantly say stuff like: George wanted to show that invading another country and destroying its culture is wrong. Or that Astapor was an allegory for the Irak War and Afghanistan....and I am like? How is freeing slaves and invading a country for oil and revenge the remotely the same thing? And where did George RR Martin ever say anything like this? The guy loves giving interviews. Would he not have said this stuff if he wanted to convey that in his story? Besides, I remember he did say once that he does not write allegories, but on the other hand he apparently praised the Feldman essay, an essay I vehemently disagree with. At times, I think George is contradicting himself, but I am sure he would have portrayed the slavers much nicer if he thought that Dany was wrong for ending the practice of slavery.

[silverdust09]

The a song of ice and fire fandom is full of right wingers

These days I only go to the a song of ice and fire sub to look if there is an update on WoW and today I found another thread of Dany is evil because she killed slavers: https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/qczypg/spoilers_main_what_is_up_with_the_people/ Seriously, I wonder if George RR Martin is aware that a large part of hsi fandom is made up by right winger and slavery supporters? I mean the guy was obiviously a hippy and ia a pacificst. How can they get the idea that George would have Dany free slaves and then turn her into the ultimate villian? Like do they actually know anything about the guy?

[courtesanofbraavos-deactivated2]

another day in the angyyyyyyyyy land. where the fuck do they keep coming from, i block and block and block and yet???? them cockroaches can definitely survive anything

[nerajaana]

Misogyny? Check

Rapist/abuser apologism? check

Ableism? Triple check

Not read the books? of fckin course, why am i not surprised by how these insect wonders crawl into others’ inboxes to cry about something they don’t even have any mfing idea about.

and these morons are the ones to take the moral high ground and pretend they’re above everyone else? pls, gtf outta here and dwell on your conspiracy theories about real life people or how to interpret the sUbTeXt so non existent not even the writer himself knows

[intheairwewilllookmonstrous]

Too much to unpack so throw out the whole suitcase.

[silverdust09]

What has Willas Tyrell done to these people? Not only does not even have a PoV he seems very likable by what we have heard of him. He would also give Rhaenys the Reach, a hundred times more powerful place than the bloody north!

[rhaenyra-first-of-her-name]

New game, tell me your canon notp in asoiaf. I have a long list myself.

[intheairwewilllookmonstrous]

Dunno wtf Alyssa Velaryon was doing with Rogar Baratheon and how she was so besotted after all we've read about him instead of loving herself.

[daenerys-daario]

I HATE Rogar/Alyssa too!!

I also hate Rhaena the Black Bride and Prince Aegon. (No, Jaehaerys... Rhaena was a lesbian and you are being homophobic).

Also, Lysa/Jon... absolute horror show! (IMO, lysa should have poisoned and murdered Jon instead.)

[rhaenyra-first-of-her-name]

All worthy additions to the list.

I shudder to think Rhaena 's time with either of them.

I won't really blame Lysa if she did that, for the right reasons.

[daenerys-daario]

I'm "meh" about Rhaena/Maegor coz she probably killed him! 😁😁😁😁

I'm always up for women killing their husbands..

[nerajaana]

All of the above plus Alysanne x Jaehaerys lol

(Runs and hides under a rock)

[silverdust09]

I fully agree on Jae x Alysanne : Fire and Blood made me despise the Alysanne x Jaehaerys pairing. The guy forced her to have more babies even though he had a dozen of them in her fucking fourties. Not to mention, the way he treated her daughters and was an all around asshole. He also was an ass to his sister and did not make Rhaenys his heir. Fuck him. He is more at fault for the Dance than anyone. Tywin x Joanna? I dont care how Joanna is used to give Tywin humanity. The guy loving one woman does not make him a better person. In my headcanon Joanna had a thing with Aerys and Cersei x Jaime are his kids. Tyrion is Tywins only kid. The irony. Dany x Drogo: George should have gone with the original storyline and have Dany kill that rapist piece of shit. Jon x Lysa is a pairing? I thought she hated him. And didnt she kinda poison him?

[lemontreeofbravvos15]

Tw: Miscarriage

I am I only one who thinks that Daenerys lost the baby in the first book just because she’s too young to be giving birth and not because of her being a Targaryen or a curse.

[rainhadaenerys]

You’re not the only one, I’ve seen many people with this opinion, but I don’t really agree with that. Plenty of girls are able to give birth at 14. It’s true that this ideally shouldn’t happen, it is indeed more risky for a girl of this age to give birth, but it’s not impossible for a girl to give birth at this age and both she and the baby survive. A second reason why I don’t think this is the reason Rhaego died is simply because the whole Mirri plot and Mirri saying that the Stallion who mounts the world will no longer burn cities (admitting that she killed Dany’s son) is there for a reason. It’s not just filler, Mirri’s magical ritual that killed Rhaego is part of the story, and believing that Rhaego died just because Dany was too young pretty much dismisses all of this plot. And we also have Dany seeing Rhaego’s heart burn in her fever dream (which is a Nissa Nissa imagery), which is another indication that Rhaego’s death was a sacrifice, not simply a normal stillborn.

And I know this probably wasn’t your intention, but another reason I dislike this theory is that it gives fuel to Dany antis. Plenty of Dany antis refuse to admit that Mirri did anything against Dany and that Mirri admitted to killing Rhaego. They do this because they like to insist that Dany burned an innocent woman. If Rhaego died simply because Dany was too young, then these antis would be right, and I don’t think they are.

[kei-yuki]

I want to remember too that when Mirri informs Dany that Rhaego didn’t live, she tells her that he was dead “long before” adding the description we know about a “reptilian baby”.

But Dany knows well her son was alive just before Jorah entered her in the tend because she still felt the baby in her womb.

[rainhadaenerys]

Good point as well. Not only Rhaego was reptilian, but he had “graveworms”. None of those things are things that would ever happen naturally, they are the result of magic. You could try to argue that reptilian features might have something to do with Targaryen blood, but graveworms? That’s an entirely different species. Dany wouldn’t naturally give birth to “graveworms”, that was magic.

[silverdust09]

Just one addition: you can technically still feel a baby after you had a miscarriage because the baby floats in your womb. So Dany feeling the baby means nothing. However, I agree. Mirri killed Rhaego given how proud she was of her actions, I am just wondering if she did it by the magic or by giving Dany some abortion stuff. As for Rhaego looking like a winged creature, that might have been the result of the ritual or maybe....maybe natural? We know that some Targs had such babies, which leaves the question if Rhaego was maybe doomed from the beginning? But on the other hand I think it is much cooler that Mirri kinda killed Rhaego because she believed in this stupid prophecy, but Dany was the stallion all along.

[silverdust09]

I really love how complex and dark the Starks are - they have really villian potential, don't you think?

Lets take a closer look: Sansa: betrayed her own father at age 10? Gave no fuck about her sister nearly being killed by Joffrey with a sword. Gave no fuck about Mycah and innocent boy. Blames Arya for Ladys death. Shows no hint of emotion when Jon Arryn´s squire gets killed and even thinks Jeyne stupid for being horrified. And the best....happily helps Littlefinger in kiling her cousin so she can marry Harry the Heir. She really is a complex and dark character. I love the forshadowing for her to go down a dark path. Don´t you agree? Jon: acts like petulant child when he realizes that the NW is a shit hole and instead of leaving he stays in that shithole. Breaks his vows numerous times and has no problem putting an innocent man into an ice cell. Also threatened a rape victims baby with fire and forced her to seperate from her. He has also a big white wolf with red eyes. Dont you know? In some cultures white is associated with death? That is clear forshadowing for him to become a darker character. Maybe he will get the role of the Nights King? He was also killed. We all know that being killed means one comes back differently. He will probably kill everyone in the north because he hears that Rickon and Bran are alive after he got the crown. Because people who are ambitious are evil, didnt you know? I just love how dark and complex he is. And all the forshadowing. So clear and right on point. George RR Martin is such a genius. To make the bastard a villian. What great subversion, right? Bran: Mind rapes a mentally disabled person and will probbaly become Bloodravens student and able to mind rape more people. He is also going to control the weirwood network and will surely become King by hatching a master plan to kill Dany by brainwashing her into burning down KL. He is really a good person for allowing millions of people to die so his family could rule. Because didn´t you know? Ambitious is evil and power always corrupts. And because he has a crush on Meera he will surely rape her with Hodor because he cannot use his cock. Wouldnt that be a cool twist of events? Oh, subversive it could be. Arya: a little psychopath who has a list of people she wants to kill. I mean she starts young? I wonder if she will kill Sansa next? Given that Sansa was a bitch to her most of her youth. Wouldnt that be cool? Sansa being killed by her sister and Arya taking her face to rule the North. that would be such great storytelling. Rickon: Went to a cannibal unicorn island? I wonder if he will be the next Dark Wolf. Will he eat his sister´s heart perhaps? Or will he ride Shaggy and kill Stannis? Who knows, what that five year old monster will do? I am certainly looking forward to the dark path the Starks will go down, because it would make the story so much better if everyone turned out to be secret villian. Just imagine the potential? The secret heros becoming the villians? George is really a hidden genius. People should give him the noble price of literature. I mean who needs Tolkien and Tolstoi? THey are just scribblers to the god king George RR Martin.

[the-king-andthe-lionheart]

Honestly I don’t care how “influential” Jorah is in Dany’s story, I’m really glad he hasn’t really shown up so far this Dany month.  Why?  Because he is old enough to be her grandfather, yet he is lusting after a 13 year old girl in the books!  I like whitewashed show!Jorah just fine, but book!Jorah is freaking disgusting.  Like that age gap is by far one of the worst in the books.  Not to mention he kept trying to isolate and control Dany which is abusive behavior, and Dany even called him out on it!  Oh yeah, he was also a unrepentant spy and slaver.  I hope Dany never forgives him TBH, but since Dany is such an amazing person I’m sure she will, but I’m also sure he hasn’t changed and will just repeat his old behavior or just be worse.  Sorry not sorry.

[silverdust09]

I really wish George would dial down on the old man prying after young girls tropes in his books....it aged like spoiled milk.

[courtesanofbraavos-deactivated2]

in a cursed reality where lyanna stark/jon snow fics exist, rhaegar/jon snow doesn't even shock me tbh. But you know what's hella vile? Rhaegar/Sansa/Elia. Sincerely, what the ever loving fuck

wot

[intheairwewilllookmonstrous]

They really gonna self insert her in the Seven Hells if possible

[nerajaana]

still better than this imho

[valaenarhaegarovna]

I'm gonna expose myself and say that I read one Tywin/Sansa fic once out of curiosity and I kid you not:

They had Jorah kill Daenerys and Viserys and take their heads to King's Landing with--ATTENTION--the dragon eggs. Which were then given to Sansa.

They want their fave to be Daenerys so bad

[silverdust09]

The funniest about this people is though that they would totally ship Princess Brexit Salsa Cerseifinger the first of her Name with Dany if she was a Daeron and had a dick. Suddenly, Daeron killing slavers would be cool and using dragons would be totally fine, because Daeron Targaryen would be saved from the pure heart of Princess Brexit and probably give her a dragon or some bullshit like that....

[rainhadaenerys]

“House of the Dragon could be good, the writers are better this time, people should give it a chance”

I don’t think people who say this get that this is exactly the problem. Yes, HOTD could be good, but we don’t WANT it to be good. If HOTD ends up being good and respectful to the source material, that just means that they cared more about a side story than the main story itself, and that is in itself a great source of bitterness for people who truly loved the main story. It means HBO is successful and gets money after what they did to the fans in the last season of Game of Thrones.

And even if it is good, it’s still a story about the decadence of House Targaryen, right after they destroyed the last Targaryen. It’s another story of a woman being denied her power, turned mad/evil and dying horribly. Fuck House of the Dragon, I hope it crashes and burns.

[silverdust09]

My reasons for not supporting the show are manyfold: George wont get a dime frome me for not giving a shit about finishing WoW for nearly 10 years and not speaking up about the Dany madness stuff. He could have said that it was something DnD came up with, but didn´t, especially since he had no issue talking about the other spoiler plot points. He is working on one show after another. I give no fuck. I want WoW or at least the remaining 200 pages to get a fucking conclusion to Dance of Dragons. The rest I can make up in my head. HBO mocked me and many others for shitting on their ending. Customers remember when they are mistreated. Fuck them. Fire and Blood is garbage anyway. I hated every fucking page. Even the stuff about Jaehaerys, who by the way was a piece of shit. By the end I just wanted Alysanne to feed him to her dragon and champion for Rhaenys to be queen. Hell, I like Daemon Targaryen more than him. At least, he was honest about who he was and what he did. I am sick of the glorification of these Targ guys who are all assholes to their women, but good kings. Doesnt change they were assholes, which is especially bitter for me, because Jaehaerys was obviously based on Edward III of England, the guy who allowed his fucking daughter to marry the man she loved and my favourite English monarch. But lets stop with the history lesson. The antis will use this show to justify Danys ending. See how mad the Targs are. Princess Brexit of the North was right after all. And at last, I am just tired of women being raped, put down, slut-shamed and turned into this crazy and unstable beings that can only be used as a fuck pillow or push out babies for their cool menfolk. Especially, since the incels in this fandom seem to enjoy that so much. Only recenlty, I read how some guy commented how is going to look forward how Rhaenys gets put down. I am just tired. I am not sure if WoT will be better, but at least the writers seem to give a fuck about the source material and the women are more than just fuck pillow for men.

[thecobwebs-deactivated20211111]

Hey! I have a question that I wanted to ask you cause it’s been on my mind since yesterday. What do you think might be the origin of the word ‘Targaryen’? I haven’t found anything in google, but on one antitargaryen post somebody said that they have the word ‘Arian’ in it (basically the entire post was comparing Targaryens to nazi). Idk if they’re right, I’ve seen other people think this way too. Maybe the inspo was Tolkien’s guardian of the sun Aryen? The dragons drank the sun, according to legend and all that. What do you think? I don’t really have an exact opinion yet, I was curious about yours.

Hi! I am not especially knowledgeable about name meanings or origins for asoiaf. Ever since I have read the books, I’ve never really thought on this…but perhaps this discourse has been blowing up a lot, lately, because people are desperately seeking for some way to shoe-horn their own predictions into the original story, either as justification or as evidence. So, sorry if I can’t be a help there.

Now, this Aryan thing ... the posts you are referring to say that the Targaryens are based off of the Aryan race … but “Aryan race” as Hitler bastardized it and not what the original meaning of it is. Aryans were just people who spoke the various Indo-Aryan languages and who settled in Northern India (and other countries in this region) and then established their own civilization there. Now, people who are using this TargARYEN analogy don’t know this fact, or want to ignore it in favour of how the Nazis weaponized and redefined it to just mean blonde blue-eyed people who were supposedly superior.

What we know about the Targaryens is that they, like the Valyrians, practiced sibling marriage to keep their control over their dragons intact, and that they had silver-gold hair and purple eyes….which GRRM himself said is something he chose as being suited for high fantasy. Their appearance literally doesn’t have a deeper meaning, and if we look at the Targaryen histories, it is evidently clear that even though there were a lot of familial marriages going on, there was no real aversion to marrying people from other Houses of Westeros, be they descended from the First Men or the Andals or the Rhoynar. So this argument that they were fixated on “blood purity” doesn’t exactly match. Though there have been Targaryens who were racist, that seems a personal thing and not the norm for the entire dynasty. So, their theory checks out.

I don’t have any ideas about the origins for these, but that’s probably because I take this aspect of this series at face value. @dragonstemper @childofthree any ideas?

[silverdust09]

A song of ice and fire was inspired by the four books of Tad Williams Memory Sorrow Thorn series and if I remember in correctly there was in this books series once an Empire in the past and one of the the families that ruled this Empire had a very similiar name. I think it was called something like Tygiris or something that later fell apart. The King Prester John who rules Osten Ard currently also has some similiarities to Robert (He did not abuse his wife or whore around and he was a pretty decent king), but he lied about slaying a dragon and he got kinda kucked by his wife by a descendent of that family I mentioned. Really, I would have to re-read the first book, which is really long, but Camaris I think is the one. The old and mad knight. If you read the series you will find many similiarties.

[courtesanofbraavos-deactivated2]

To me, it's appaling how some people (I would say rhaelya antis) quickly dismiss Lyanna, and that she was a strong and willful girl. As a consequence, there are a lot of takes that, again, dismiss that she could really have loved Rhaegar.

I've seen people theorize that Rhaegar manipulated her, that nobody ever mentioned that she loved Rhaegar... The list is big; they simply cannot accept that Lyanna had her own agenda and chose the man she loved lol

As for never being mentioned that Lyanna loved Rhaegar back... what did these people expect from misogynist narrators, in a misogynist world? lol The same narrators that blame Elia for Rhaegar's taking a fancy on Lyanna.

Good point on why nothing is mentioned about Lyanna’s own feelings: when has anyone in Westeros ever cared for what women thought?

[silverdust09]

Thats mostly the result of prudish people who seem to think that teenagers have no sexuality and teenagers are unable to feel romantic feelings. I would be as rich as Bill Gates if I got a coin every time I heard that this or that persons relationship is just silly puppy love and will never work out because they were below twenty when they got together. Yet I know plenty of people who had longer relationships with their highschool sweethearts than some adults bloody marriage. Its really funny. Our society wants teenagers to move out at 18, hold down two jobs, pay for their education, have good marks, allows them to get their driving licence and to drink and to fucking vote, but be careful when you have an 18 year old fucking a 23 year old or a 15 year old having a boyfriend. Then, they will suddenly call people who are holding down a job and paying bills a kid and too stupid to figur out if the older person wants to harm or manipulate. Teenagers are sometimes stupid and make bad decisions, but most of them are not fucking stupid.