Silver Storyteller

Female, 28. Quiet. Lurker. Social Recluse. Lover of books and occasionally nerdy tv shows and cartoons. This blog is mainly going to be fandom-related stuff, at the moment mostly Gravity Falls.

[arcade-confetti]

*Jason through a speaker*: Bruce. You are currently on a fast moving trolley with no brakes. There's two tracks ahead of you. If you do nothing. The trolley will run over one person. A mass murderer and torturer who's killed and disabled many people you personally know and care about, destoryed the city several times, and has caused mass destruction to the world and will continue to do so.

*Jason through a speaker*: If you choose to turn the trolley to prevent his death, you will turn it onto me, your son. And kill me in the very place we met.

Bruce: Heroes should never let anyone die. There's always a third option *derails the trolley and kills Jason anyway*

[arcade-confetti]

Ik heroes have a whole gimmick that "not stopping a murder is the same as committing it" but im begging yall to stop saying Jason tried to force Bruce to kill the Joker. Im begging. The options were kill Jason. Or. Let Jason kill the Joker.

I think its rather disingenuous to say Jason was "trying to make Bruce kill the Joker" and imply that like Jason told Bruce to shoot someone dead with Bruce's own hands. Thats not what happened. Jason would have been the one to kill the Joker that night had Bruce let him. It was never making Bruce do the kill himself.

It was a test actively rigged in Bruce's favor. "Shoot and kill your own son right here in crime alley, where you first met him and where your parents died to a gun" Bruce was never imagined or meant to choose that. In no world would anyone have genuinely expected Bruce to choose that. The only person Jason told Bruce to kill that night was Jason, with the idea he wouldn't reasonably ever do that

Its basically a scenario where Jason has placed Bruce on a trolley with two tracks. But the trolley's current and natural path is the one person. Bruce would have to turn the tracks to kill several. When the whole point of the trolley problem is that the natural path is several people and the debate is if youd choose to turn it on the one instead.

Like! Yeah! Go wild saying making someone witness or not stop it is the same as murder. I dont care. Im not saying you have to stop doing that. But stop saying "Jason tried to make Bruce kill the Joker" "Jason was trying to force Bruce to kill the Joker" thats leaves an entirely false perception of what happened in a space where many already believe Jason told Bruce to shoot the Joker himself.

Did Jason want Bruce to kill the Joker? Yes! But that is not the same as him forcing Bruce to kill the Joker. Jason asked why Joker is alive. Bruce made it clear he wont kill, so Jason basically said 'ok, then i'll do it myself. You just have to let me do it' He did not ever try to force Bruce into doing the deed himself

[arcade-confetti]

And my heafty reminder that the comic uth scene is very different from the movie utrh scene. Its still the same idea of "shoot me or i kill the joker" but the way it plays out probably influences the idea Bruce had to choose between shooting Jason or the Joker. With how it has Bruce walking off with Jason getting increasingly agitated saying choose. This did not happen at all in the original uth comic. If Bruce walked away in the original comic thatd probably count as letting Jason shoot. Or not. Whatever. Your boat. But please consider in your analysis if youre letting that influence ideas over the situation + its still ultimately a choose me or the joker ending in both versions anyway

Just!! Stop stating Jason tried to make Bruce kill the Joker. Its all i ask....

[silverstoryteller]

Huh. The original post disappeared, but it got me thinking about Jason and Damian's relationship. I do like the implication that Jason helped raise Damian in Young Justice and I love it as an AU in fanfiction, but I don't see how it could work in canon. The brief time Jason was in the League, he was almost but not quite comatose, and then he was traveling around the globe training, at which point I doubt Talia would have risked having Damian around him for fear of what Jason would do. My head canon is that Damian was aware of pre-Lazarus Pit Jason as one of his mother's pet projects, but not who he actually was or what happened to him. By the time he was able to connect Talia's pet project to the Red Hood, it was pretty clear Jason was volatile and did not remember him, so there was no point in bringing it up.

I would love it if the comics expanded on their relationship at some point, though. However you interpret Jason's relationship with Talia, it is a complicated one; she took care of him when he was helpless (and I do believe she loved him, if not as a son then at least a step son), but she also manipulated him to her own ends and enabled his self-destructive plan in UTH. Damian can relate; he loves his mother, but he no longer believes in her and the League's ideals.

The other thing I like and would love to see explored more is their time working together as Wingman and Redbird in Batman Incorporated. They actually worked well together and Damian felt betrayed when he found out Wingman was Jason. Give me more of the fallout from that. And beyond that, Damian's morals have shifted over time, originally closer to Jason's and now more like Bruce's. Depending on which (if any) current era comics you prefer, Jason may have stayed the same or shifted over to match, and either option has some fascinating opportunities for exploring their relationship.

[spiritsglade]

rambles/musings on jason & killing people & why

under the hood & lost days jason killing people is ultimately less about whether they "deserve it" & more... would killing this person be useful/beneficial? killing ego stops him from trafficking children, killing the drug lords' lieutenants is an extremely effective & convincing demonstration that get them to heel, killing black mask's henchmen puts pressure on him that ultimately leads to him decimating his own empire.

in under the hood you can argue it's because jason is focused on a goal; of course he's not going out of his way to kill people who "deserve it," he doesn't have time for that. but in lost days it's primarily to prevent future harm. that trainer would have killed her family if jason didn't stop her, & that dealer selling poisoned drugs can't continue doing so because he's dead.

the joker's the only person that jason really seems to argue deserves to die for what he has done in the past, & even then it's less "the joker deserves to die" and more "you (bruce) should have killed him." & even then the conversation carried the implication of "the joker kept killing people after i died. why wasn't i enough for you to care?"

"i thought killing me--that i'd be the last person you'd ever let him hurt."

everything with the joker is personal, in a way that jason killing other people isn't.

i digress. this all makes me think back to what jason says about egon: "i didn't 'murder' him. you murder people. i... put this reptile down." it's a very dehumanizing thing to say! this reminds me of the practice of euthanizing animals that attack humans, both wild & domesticated. it's not the animal's "fault" and it's not a punishment because they "deserve it," it's merely because if they've attacked a human before there's a higher chance they will again.

if that's the mindset jason's running around with, then it makes sense that "this is a bad person who deserves to die" does not enter his thought process at all. punishment is not part of the equation.

[girlsinthelazaruspit]

would you guys jump me if i said i don't think judd winick should write another jason comic.

[girlsinthelazaruspit]

stealing this out the tags bc This This This.

the thing is i don't think jason turning more into antagonist or even just more testy relationship with bats would be a bad thing. bc i could see it being an avenue for him getting more independence from bruce but esp just as a character. so much of jason's stories nowadays just feel like they revolve around if the bats like him or not that day.

but if winick were to write another jason story it would just be jason vs the bats where jason's sole purpose is to a problem and make bruce mad. and like. i love it when they make bruce mad. i love it when bruce is challenged. however i don't love it enough that i wouldn't mind if it came at the expense of jason's character. esp considering there are ways to make jason challenge bruce without making him rebooting back to his utrh characterization.

there's also the jaybin shaped specter in the room and god. guys. i do not want winick near jaybin ever again. esp since it can be argued that he really accelerated the trend of jason being 'the angry robin'

[liedownquisition]

oh yeah that's a really good point re: it just being Jason vs the Bats and at this point it honestly feels to me like he really needs development outside of them. Bcs most of RHATO (both versions) wasn't really... development for him? Cheer wasn't really either, it didn't really engage with his actual philosophy on killing (just had him kill out of passion/anger) enough to develop JASON so much as using him as a sockpuppet to prove that Bruce is always right. Hell, I think a majority of the reoccurring Gotham Rogues at this point have more genuine development that doesn't revolve around the Bats than Jason does tbh.

I will say he DID do better with Jaybin in the uh. What was it, Robin anniversary collection? When he wrote More Time? But I don't know if I trust him enough from that one-off alone to let him touch on Jaybin again.

[girlsinthelazaruspit]

!!! honestly i forget winick wrote more time bc. it's such a 180 from how he characterized both jaybin but also red hood lowkey.

also yeah the point about rhato 😔rhato always the potential man of comics to me bc it had a genuinely interesting premise but scott lobdell is such a hack that he completely fumbled it.

[silverstoryteller]

H2sh spoilers for all of #163:

Jeph Loeb really ended the first half of the story at the funniest part he possibly could have. Nothing is explained, the main villain is killed off halfway through the story (again), Jason is crouched over Hush like a bereaved lover, Batman dies and is revived six pages later, and the last page is Talia and a Lazarus-mad Bruce making out.

No explanation of what the fuck's been going on or how everyone got to where they are when the next run picks up after this, just surprise Brutalia while chaos happens in the background, then on to Matt Fraction's run. Fuck you.

And if the second half ever even gets finished, it'll probably be declared noncanon, anyway.

Look, I know things are going to go wrong the second that kiss ends, but for just a minute, let me live in a world where the last thing that happens before Batman 2025 starts is Brutalia getting back together. <3

[silverstoryteller]

H2sh spoilers

The fucking monkey's paw of a comic H2sh turned out to be. Brutalia, but at what cost? (Utter character assassination, that's what)

[faemorrigan]

my biggest advice to new dc fans is that most fans are idiots and you shouldnt believe anything they say about the comics. read the books and form your own opinions, not just because otherwise you look ill informed (which i think too many people shame in these discussions theres literally so much comic book guys cmon), but mostly because you guys are letting a bunch of dumbasses trick you out of great stories because They didnt understand it

[faemorrigan]

My second biggest piece of advice is to remember always that your favorite character is first and foremost an aspect of a narrative and not a real person. some things you think might be ooc might in fact be totally in line with the narrative role or themes of the character and you Need to be able to tell this difference if you want to get the most out of reading. <- this doesnt apply just to comics but all media, but its especially true in a fandom that incentivizes standom

[meenanya]

Recently saw the question proposed "does Jason care that Bruce killing the Joker proves Joker right philosophically?" To put it simply: No, and it shouldn't even have to enter his thought process on the subject.

He was the murder victim of a mass murdering domestic and international terrorist. The philosophical debate doesn't enter the conversation because it doesn’t matter. It shouldn't matter. Especially to his victims. People shouldn't be forced to die and suffer for the sake of Bruce's ego or mental state. Joker should be stopped from killing permanently, and Jason isn't wrong for asking for that. Who cares if Joker thinks he's right? What actually matters is that he doesn't kill any more people. Jason thought he would be the last victim because his father and mentor (who is one of the richest most powerful/influential people on the planet) has the means to end Joker. Batman even has nonlethal options to do so, but he doesn't use them. Jason isn't insensitive for not caring about the reason behind Bruce's inaction; he was the one that was murdered.

(Also, quick reminder that Jason didn't ask Bruce to kill Joker outright. He informed Bruce of his intent to kill Joker and gave him a gun, saying "the only way to stop me is to kill me or kill him first". That is an important distinction here because he doesn't want Bruce to be a killer necessarily. He wants the mass murderer that killed him to be forced to stop and this is the best way he can see how, while also proving to himself whether Bruce cares about him and other victims or not. Not to mention the obvious implication that he doesn't want to live in a world where the cycle is allowed to continue, but I digress. )

[asailboatinthewindow]

im looking for a fic and I can’t FIND IT!guys please omg can anyone help me. its on ao3 and it was from Jason’s perspective. The plot was basically Jason didn’t die in Ethiopia but instead got gravely injured and was in a coma for 4 years (the same amount of time he was “dead” for). At the beginning of the story he slowly wakes up from the coma and has to adjust to his new life where his injuries left him with brain trauma, physical disabilities, and ofc regular mental trauma. Tim became Robin in his absence still. Damian joins the family halfway through. Bruce DIES halfway through (not really, lost in time plot line) and it fuvks jason up. The story ends with an epilogue of Jason being able to live with all his disabilities and going to college, and Bruce coming back to life.

I’ve searched the “Catatonic Jason Todd,” “Disabled Jason Todd,” “Jason Todd Lives,” and “Jason Todd and Bruce Wayne” tags. I might’ve missed the fic but PLEASE tell me someone knows what I’m talking about

I can give more details on the plot if necessary but that’s the main things I remember.

I swear to god if it got deleted…

[silverstoryteller]

So Jason still died and was brought back (he was found by Bruce during No Man's Land), but otherwise, sounds like the No Lazarus Pits AU by EventualToast: https://archiveofourown.org/series/3675829

[arcade-confetti]

One of the most upsetting things about Jason's death is how they didn't do anything with it. The Detective Comics run ignored his life and death completely. And while there is a scattering of issues, we never really got to sit with it, to stew it. Bruce's son is dead and Robin is dead. After all he's done since his parents death, Bruce had once more lost family, his own son, at the hands of a criminal he faces. Even the Justice League run Bruce had been in at the time doesn't really say anything.

It all just moves on so quickly, if it even tried to stop at all. Made worse by bringing in a new Robin SO soon after. Just. Augh.

[cobalt-knave]

It's such a colossal missed opportunity that it's kind of wild to think about. You get the chance to kill of Batman's son. Bruce Wayne, who has spent 50 real life years of comic books being driven by his grief over his parents' deaths to be the Batman. And you get to kill off his son. That is the perfect opportunity to do earth-shaking things with that character. Hell, if they'd made his killer anyone less popular than the Joker, I think there's a good chance we could have seen an arc where Bruce legitimately kills someone and has to deal with that and if he wants to be that person. Or has to choose not to kill them. (The plot armor Joker has in the comic itself takes all the choice away from Bruce which is BORING). This could have been used to truly and completely explore the dark reaches of the character. And they threw it away. Starlin's walking back the importance of Jason's death as Bruce is looking for his body. What was the point??

[vampirlor]

guy who has read 10 comics: bruce wayne is a good parent

guy who has read 100 comics: bruce wayne is an evil person and a terrible parent and fandom larpers who only read wayne family adventures don't actually know anything about bruce wayne and are projecting their stupid inane fantasies onto him

guy who has read 1000 comics: bruce wayne is a good parent

[silverstoryteller]

#guy who has read 10000 comics: bruce wayne is a deeply historical character who in many ways reflects society's evolving ideas about#masculinity good vs evil and fatherhood and the beautiful thing about that is how every person can see exactly what they need in him.#whether he's the dad the robins deserve is inconsequential because he is the dad we as the readers need for where we are in life

^Aconitemare speaking truth in the tags^

[cologona]

The fact that Robin’s death requires the blame to be pinned on him lest the foundations of Batman’s genre conventions fall apart should’ve been reason to never pull that lever unless it was to make Bruce retire Batman.

[silverstoryteller]

As much as I love Jason as the Red Hood and his messy relationship with the batfam, I increasingly find myself wishing DITF never happened. They didn't even manage to follow up on it in a meaningful way, much less address how it irrevocably shattered the status quo, in a way that couldn't be taken back without Batman and every other adult around him looking like a sociopath.

[annotated-dc]

Now Batman #163 By Jim Lee & Jeph Loeb Is Delayed Till End Of May 2026

Now Batman #163, the fianl part of H2SH, by Jim Lee and Jeph Loeb is delayed another two months until the end of May 2026

Nobody cares! And if the off-chance someone does, just collect up the last issues and publish them in one go instead of these silly delays.

[silverstoryteller]

I expect Jason to start taking a backseat in the plot after the first couple issues, and honestly? That's a good thing. The title of the series isn't Red Hood, it's Teen Titans; I do think the teen characters should be the focus. In fact, I won't be surprised if Jason leaves the title after the first or second storyline finishes; it's very likely he was a last minute addition due to his prior cancellation, and I would bet they're working on a new solo for him now.

The real question is if the rest of the cast can carry the story after that; I hope they can. I've been wanting to see more of Flatline for a while now, and I'm getting caught up on Lian's backstory now. My only exposure to Fairplay was the Kids Are All Fight special, and that was... Eh. But that was a KO tie-in, so I won't hold it against him. Curious to see what the other two boys are like; they seem to be entirely new characters.

[razed-filth]

slamming my head against a wall as people refuse to learn how to read so they can complain about jason instead

hes NOT JOINING THE TEEN TITANS its “joining WITH a group…to find some missing teens” jason is already investigating and about these kids investigating and decides to help READ THE INFORMATION GIVEN

he’s also not in his thirties he’s probably not even in his mid-twenties jason is literally near cass and tims age dc is manipulating you and you are letting them!

this isnt weird for jason he has notoriously had issues with child heroes being in danger he is going to look at this “hyper-capable” heroes and see graves they will fill he’s going to WORRY

genuinely a moment i want out of all of this is for someone to try and call jason out someone to try and make it seem like jason is in the wrong for something and jason to respond that he’d rather the kid alive then whoevers approval ESPECIALLY if jason makes the call that he needs to kill someone to keep one of the kids safe. he doesnt need to lead them let him make sure none of them will fall. MIRROR HIS TIME WITH THE TEEN TITANS THE FIRST TIME he was a kid being looked to to lead now let him do the same to someone else let him step back and hand the reigns over to go “im just here for the ride kid” he only intervenes in plans to amend information he doesnt make plans he doesnt tell them how to do things he gives them every resource HE GUIDES THEM

[silverstoryteller]

Jason Todd Next Level appearance? With Nika and Lian? By Kyle Higgins?

Shit, DC, my birthday was last week. You shouldn't have.