talking about veganism

[something-about-veganism]

Hi!

I didn't want to post a ton about veganism on my main, so I made this. Don't expect me to post consistently or anything, I'll mostly just be venting about anti-vegan arguments that I find annoying whenever I come across any

I'm agender and use she/her

this blog is run by a minor

ask rules and dni list under cut

some of my reasoning and ethical positions explained here

asks:

obviously if you want me to post your ask it has to be related to veganism or animal rights, if it's too similar to something I've posted about recently I probably won't post it

💚 for comment, 🟢 for no comment

dni:

transphobes/terfs, homophobes, racists, misogynists, ableist, maps, 18+/"minors dni" blogs, right wing/conservative people, anyone else who is bigoted in any way that i forgot to mention

[something-about-veganism]

sometimes youtube recommends me videos that are like

"veganism: DEBUNKED‼️‼️🔥🔥💥!!!"

and they don't actually know what veganism is, i get this is the least pressing issue like, ever, but why do i see like one of these kind of videos per day lmao

open the libraries bro

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"not eating meat will stunt your growth!"

i haven't eaten meat since i was nine and im above the average height for my gender, shannon.

ok no but seriously google is free

[something-about-veganism]

hey, so i know this is a sideblog and i've been mostly focusing on things that aren't that personal, but i feel like this post is better fit for here since it's veganism-adjacent.

this is just kind of a vent btw

i don't really feel anything when watching the footage in documentaries like dominion and it's kind of messing with me because i feel like i should have some reaction. it's not like i'm desensitized to gore or anything either, the most graphically violent thing ive ever really watched is probably like, stranger things or something and like, that's not really that bad i don't think.

it's the same way when it comes to learning about all the obviously terrible practices in factory farms, like sure it's really bad that they make chicks get shredded and i'm morally opposed to it because it's bad, but like, i don't really feel anything when i think about it. i can recognize that it's bad and horrible and awful, but i still don't feel anything even though i should

like, full disclosure, it's kind of the same when it comes to humans i think, but i really don't want to deal with whatever the implications of that are right now.

there's so much suffering in the things that i learn about and that i see footage of, but it doesn't really make me sad, and like, i can have empathy for animals and for people (i'm a human, obviously that's like, one of the things we do) but why can't i feel anything when i hear about them having painful procedures done to them without anesthesia, like, it makes me happy to see animals on sanctuaries or whatever, i can feel something then, when i see footage of that, but i can't when seeing something else horrible happen to them? i watched, like, 20 minutes of dominion a few weeks ago, and i didn't click off because it was too much for me to handle, i clicked off because i got bored. is that bad? i feel like that's not good. it seems like a fine documentary and all, i haven't seen any proof that any of it is fake, so it's real things im watching happen, but i don't have an emotional reaction?

anyways, vent over i guess,

[something-about-veganism]

I've deadass seen carnists praise animal liberation front for "not being as bad as peta" I'm looking forward to seeing how quickly they switch up when it's revealed that they help animals besides dogs and cats

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why are people like this it's so exhausting

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hot take maybe idk:

we should focus more on convincing people that the whole idea of farming animals is immoral because of their sentience rather than talking about specific practices in factory farms

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"plants feel pain"

they might have reactions to harm but there's no evidence that they can suffer or are conscious

Plants have a rich variety of interactions with their environment, including adaptive responses mediated by electrical signaling. This has p

Do Plants Feel Pain? No, and Here’s How Scientists Know

It’s a question people love to throw at vegans and vegetarians — so here’s a thorough explanation.

A Group of Scientists Suggest that Plants Feel Pain

According to researchers from Tel Aviv University, plants can feel pain and they send out ultrasonic sounds when they experience environment

(note about the last one: the title is misleading, the actual things in the article don't prove plant pain or suffering, they just prove plants respond to harm with defense mechanisms)

[something-about-veganism]

Sometimes it feels like people don't realize that the life you're living right now is everything you have. Like, if you're dead you won't be able to feel happy about who your death helped. If you're dead you won't be able to see or hear or experience the world.

At the end of the day, killing someone is taking away their whole world, which is likely experienced in a similar way to your experiences. It's taking away all of their potential thoughts, feelings, and relationships.

this is why wellfarists who "just wan't the animals to live a good life uwu, but if they do, then meat's ok :3" make me want to set something on fire. Living a good life isn't a justification to take that life. No creature exists for you, even if you bred that creature, it still doesn't give you the right to determine everything about its existence, including when that consciousness should end. There is no ownership of sentient beings because by virtue of being sentient, they own themselves. Their feelings and experiences literally cannot be owned by someone else. The one who's dead can't be happy that they're helping you sustain your life because they can't experience anything when they're dead, even if they could, there's no reason to be happy that someone viewed your entire existence as so meaningless that they had the right to end it because they wanted to.

Free range and cruelty free and pasture raised labels exist only for the peace of mind of the consumer and the farmer, if they truly cared about the wellbeing of animals, they wouldn't end their lives and pay to end their lives respectively. Ending a life (given that it is not in self defense) is cruel and it is not humane by any stretch. Even if it's completely painless and the life lived beforehand is complete bliss, taking away all the potential for future experiences from a thing that almost definitely desires to have them is the highest violation of bodily autonomy, therefore making it unethical.

This is baby logic, people, "killing is bad" is something that's understood by most kindergarteners. It shouldn't take multiple paragraphs or footage to convince you that killing is bad when it's not in self defense.

In the modern world, in many places and for many people it is possible to abstain from most needless killing, and if you are able to, you should try.

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Since free range farms are the pinochle of animal welfare, and super ethical and amazing, I propose that instead of shelters, which waste good animals that could be used for juicy meat, we send all the animals that would go to shelters to free range farms. After all, it's the life that's led that matters, not the end of it. 🥰 If you really think about it it's the most compassionate option, in shelters, animals might make someone happy, but wouldn't it be better if their life had a purpose (to us, not to them, we kill them). What if in the countryside, instead of seeing natural plants and animals, the green fields of non native grass were full of happy free range ethical shelter animals? What a beautiful world that would be!

It saddens me so much when those vegans group all people who keep animals in an area until they're three years old and then ship them off to a building where their throats get slit as bad or evil, sometimes they're just trying their best to feed the populace by ending the lives of others who didn't consent to that.

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This sounds like hyperbole - I swear it isn't - but I've actually never seen a serious argument for carnism that doesn't include a logical fallacy or misinformation.

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i actually thought this was satire when i first saw it, but apparently this person is being serious lmao

"made up morals" particularly stands out to me, morals aren't like, natural, I think the idea of moral relativism is flawed and leads to harm, but morals are a social construct, they're all made up.

Plus the implication that all vegans are following the instructions of one guy who just came up with it one day is really fucking funny.

There's no reason given in the post that being able to eat something makes it ethical to eat (given you have other options ofc). But operating of this logic by itself, it would be ok to eat people even if you don't have to in order to survive, and to say otherwise would be wrong. If anything is being pushed on entire populations it's carnism. A lot of governments subsidize animal products and the majority of people are raised eating an omnivore diet. So is it ok to force a populace to eat a specific diet then?

And where do the concerns about racism and forcing people to do things go when they say that it's wrong to talk about morals in eating just because "someone or some creature" is "not being treated well" (the examples of not being treated well including being: killed, enslaved, mutilated, and forced to do dangerous labour, to name a few [talking about both humans and other animals here btw])

Also the assertion that we should try to make lives better is funny in this context, I guess this only applies to humans (and plants???) from their perspective. It's not like it makes lives worse to not pay for them to be ended prematurely, and lived out mostly commonly in cramped and uncomfortable environments. But according to this person, even making that choice for yourself and not talking about it is racist.

The spiel about plants feeling pain being "scientifically proven" is both unoriginal and incorrect. As I'm sure like, everybody reading this knows, omnivore diets take more plants being killed than plant based diets, but it's also generally agreed upon by botanists that while plants may have more complex senses than we originally thought, it is unlikely that they can think or feel any pain.

But none of that matters because it is apparently super racist to not want to torture animals. All diets based in morals are actually super racist, except of course, that of OP. Unless they eat anything they think could be good for them. their diet has moral elements. Abstaining from eating other humans is normally a moral position, so is not eating dogs and cats. So according to this person, the least racist diet is actually eating anything you want and can.

Imagine being so petty that you block people over not eating animal products

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"just buy local sustainable ethical regenerative meat"

i'm opposed to killing animals and treating them badly

rocket science, i know

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If I went around grilling random people about where the leaf of lettuce in their salad came from because sometimes it comes from child labor and they claim to not like child labor and they're such a hypocrite and then I tell them that they should eat their dog because it wouldn't involve any human suffering to do so I think most people wouldn't view me favorably.

It's weird how that's an acceptable thing to tell me though as long as they replace the dog with a cow.

[something-about-veganism]

you don't actually need to love animals or even care about them that much to be vegan, it's kind of just like, not wanting them to be tortured and killed.

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I only killed that dog because I am part of the food chain. and that's nature. If you don't support me killing dogs you hate nature and are actually an evil capitalist that hates the ecosystem and wants to steamroll the amazon. It's actually really racist to not want me to kill dogs, this is because a culture which I am not a part of also kills animals to eat, and obviously if someone is part of a marginalized culture that means that everything they do is ethical. As we know, anything that is part of a culture is good, unless it's western/american culture, because if that was good I wouldn't be able to talk about how your belief that dogs shouldn't be killed when we don't need to kill them is colonialism, which is bad, even though it's part of a culture. Cultures are only good if I can use them to defend killing dogs. Plus, a lot of the food you eat (assuming you're from the Americas or Oceania) is grown on stolen land. It is impossible for native people to farm plants, obviously. And the dogs which I get from sustainable farms that are also on the same land, aren't on that land. They are sustainable, which means that they are ethical and can't be on stolen land, even though they are. Also what about disabled people? If I had a disability which I don't have it would make it harder for me to live without killing dogs, this is not a condition which I have, but someone else does have it. So clearly thinking dogs shouldn't be killed is really eugenics. Even though all you said was that people should try to limit the amount of dogs that they kill as much as they can, which still leaves space for people who need to for medical reasons and poor people, this is classist, because even though I complain about the price of eggs every single day, beans are much more expensive than eggs. Anyways, it's actually my personal choice to kill dogs, they might also be sentient and have their own interest in staying alive, and are their own organisms, but it's still my choice whether they get to continue living. You can do what you want, but just know that my ideology which benefits me is fine and so are all the others. You can't tell people your opinion on me killing dogs because that's forcing your diet on me, and whatever someone feels like eating is ethical to that person, so it's ok. But not factory farming, which I oppose, but I still buy from factory farms. But I also don't. It changes every day. But if you care so much about dogs, you actually must hate plants, which are sentient (unlike dogs), because they can communicate using chemicals and react to their surroundings. That's what sentience is. Plus, it's possible to kill dogs painlessly, is that what I did? Maybe? And obviously killing things is fine if it's painless (was it stressful for the dog to be confined so I could stun it with a bolt gun? Probably not, since it's not a plant and therefore not sentient.) But back to environmentalism, there are too many dogs on this planet, so I do support the breeding of more, as long as they kill them. It's actually regenerative, which plant farming can't be. It does require clear cutting forests, but after that happens it's regenerative. If something is good for the environment it is ethical. Killing all humans would be good for the environment also, but that's not ethical because it would affect me. It's only ethical when it benefits me. Did I mention how your ideology is actually capitalist and how I'm a leftist who stands for the oppressed and silenced? We can't end all suffering, and also, ecosystem. Humans are a part of the ecosystem, and I participate in it by killing and subjugating those I deem to be worth less than me. I'm an anarchist btw. Oppressive systems and authority are bad. Farming dogs isn't oppressive since I think they being eaten by a dog would be ok. We live in an ecosystem, well, I live in a house away from nature and have a very low chance of being killed by an animal, I'm also not being farmed and I don't have my fate pre-decided before I'm born, like the dogs I eat do.

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the idea that killing animals when we don't need to is bad is somehow more controversial to some people than my actual political beliefs lmao