plural? sideblog

untagged syscourse, you can interact no matter your stance as long as you’re not an asshole and can tolerate nuance - i’m also just interested in criticisms of mental illness diagnosis and the medical industrial complex - 1/2 of an endogenic pair - i use whatever pronouns and jason uses he/him - i am 19 and i live in the US - i follow from m******-e****

[souldivided]

turns out i’m not plural i was just having a really bad ocd moment. sorry everybody

[souldivided]

should people experiencing plurality that’s not formed by trauma use a term other than “system” to describe ourselves? genuinely asking, i don’t want to use terms that are not for us, or that would give traumagenic systems seeking a community the wrong idea about what we are. please please please be nuanced in the comments

[sleepy-shutin]

if you're looking for alternatives, "plural" by itself is good. but personally, i don't really care much, and regardless of the history of the word "system" (proven to be taken from medical literatures and popularized outside of DID spaces for use by non-DID plurals by astraea's web and dark personalities back in the day), i don't think that the trend is really going to catch on, for better or for worse.

many endo DID systems will say you can't use it, but many will also say you can. best you can do is make an informed opinion based on what you read from other people and figure it out for yourself because there's no unanimously agreed upon opinion here.

[souldivided]

should people experiencing plurality that’s not formed by trauma use a term other than “system” to describe ourselves? genuinely asking, i don’t want to use terms that are not for us, or that would give traumagenic systems seeking a community the wrong idea about what we are. please please please be nuanced in the comments

[fagsystem]

This is such a discoursey topic.

In our opinion, non-disordered plurals should not use the term system.

Non-disordered and non-traumagenic mean the same thing when it comes to CDD systems, but it is also not a word we believe traumagenic non-disordered plurals should use.

Using the term system conflates non-disordered plurality and CDD systems. Harmful to CDD systems for reasons spoken of in that linkrd post, and harmful to non-disordered plurals who end up with people trying to pathologize their non-pathological experiences and also going after them for believing they mean they are things like nontraumagenic CDD systems.

However, we cannot control what words people do and do not use. For a while we had a DNI established for anyone who believes that system can be used to describe non-disordered plurals, but really it is not a useful thing to get caught up on.

Since you were asking, I really strongly request you do not. I do believe it is harmful. But I also believe it does not help fix those problems by going up to non-disordered plurals who call themselves systems and yelling at them for it. It further conflates CDD systems and non-disordered plurals who call themselves systems instead of making it clear that some people define system differently.

Also, while I believe it is harmful, the harm is specifically because it conflates it. If we collectively as a community made it very clear two seperate definitions of system exist, one specifically referring to CDD systems and one referring to any plurals, it would fix that issue and would not be nearly as harmful.

[multiplicity-positivity]

Establishing Contact with Headmates

Hello everyone! Not sure if we’ve ever made a post like this before, but I wanted to put together a post with tips on establishing contact with alters for those who suspect they may be a system or have a complex dissociative disorder.

This is written with folks with DID in mind, but this advice may be useful for systems of any sort!

So you think you may be a system. You may have had one-off interactions with an alter, experienced auditory or visual “hallucinations” that manifest from inside, deal with unexplained time loss and memory gaps, lack a solid sense of self, feel disconnected from your body and reality, find yourself spacing out or daydreaming often, understand you have a significant trauma history (even if you can’t remember what the trauma was), or feel like you’re not alone in your own head. You’re not sure if you may be plural, and want to determine whether or not you’re alone in your own mind.

If any of this describes you, we have some advice that may help you learn more about your system and connect with your headmates. Here are some things you can try that may help.

1. Attempt to establish a connection internally.

Explore the possibility of not being the only presence inside your mind. In a calm, safe environment, reach out with messages inside, and see if you get anything in response. Ask internally things like “is there anyone else here?” “Am I alone inside my mind?” Provide reassurance that any potential alters are safe and that you can be trusted.

Accept the fact that you may not hear from anyone straight away. Alters may be scared to come forward or reveal themselves, you may have heavy dissociative barriers, or it may take time to build up trust. Make a habit of reaching out once or twice a day. Don’t be pushy, angry, or quick to become frustrated. Understand that change does not happen overnight, and if you have alters, it will take some time to build a base of communication between each other.

2. Attempt to establish a connection externally.

In addition to reaching out in your mind, try writing notes to potential alters. This can be in a Google Doc, a journal, post-it notes, the notes app on your phone, or anywhere else. Encourage potential alters to write back, reminding them that they are safe, there’s no pressure to come forward quickly, and that you are trustworthy and capable of creating a comfortable environment for them.

Consider setting up a PluralKit or TupperBox on Discord. These programs allow you to set up multiple profiles that act as bots, allowing one account to share many profiles and post from each one separately. Set up a server for yourself, and post instructions in the server on how to create a PluralKit or TupperBox profile. That way, an alter who fronts later can make their own profile if they wish. This can allow you and your alters to communicate externally and learn more about each other.

3. Ask for help outside.

If you feel like you may be a system, it could be helpful to try broaching the subject with an individual you know well and trust. Be careful who you share this information with! Talking about the system with potential abusers or individuals who have harmed you in the past may cause internal strife and discourage headmates from wanting to get in touch with you.

Ask a friend or loved one if they’ve noticed you acting strange or differently in the past. Have they noticed you spacing out or dissociating, speaking in an unusual tone or accent, or acting in ways that are normally uncharacteristic for you? Can they shed light on your past and reveal aspects of yourself that you had forgotten or never known about? Being able to discuss this with someone else may help shake an alter loose, or could help make it clear whether or not you’re a system.

4. Seek therapy.

Better still than speaking to a friend or loved one is speaking to a therapist. Therapists are trained mental health professionals who are equipped with tools to help struggling individuals with a wide variety of mental illnesses. Even if you are functioning excellently and feel like you don’t suffer from any mental illness, if you’re wondering if you have headmates, it may be a good idea to try talking about it with a therapist.

Of course, a specialist in trauma and dissociation would be preferred (especially if you exhibit symptoms of dissociation or PTSD), but any therapist should be able to help you make sense of what’s going on in your mind.

If you have faced religious trauma in the past, please avoid seeking help from a faith-based therapist. If you have faced trauma from teachers, guidance counselors, or other school staff, please avoid seeking help from a school-based therapist. This is in order to keep your system safe, and to reassure your headmates that you do not wish to retraumatize them or put them in harm’s way.

Remember that therapists are humans without superpowers. They are capable of malpractice, misdiagnosis, and personal bias. If you do not mesh or click well with your therapist, it’s absolutely okay to leave them and find another one. Trust does not come immediately in therapy, and it may take some time working with a therapist before you feel comfortable enough to bring up the possibility of plurality. That’s perfectly normal and nothing to be concerned about! Take your time, be as open and honest as you can, and trust your instincts.

Hopefully these tips can help you reach out to potential alters, build trust and connection, and learn more about yourself in the process! If it turns out you’re not a system after all, that’s okay, and it means a lot that it’s an experience you’d be open to learning more about and exploring.

Remember to be PUNK to yourself and your potential system - show patience, understanding, neutrality, and kindness to yourself as you go through this process! Thanks so much for reading - we wish you all health and safety in your future and hope you have a lovely day!

[multiplicity-positivity]

Here’s some positivity for systems with headmates who can’t communicate with each other!

Building trust and communication is essential to learning and growing together as a system. However, for many, communication does not come easily, and it may take years for some systems to learn basic internal communication or even begin to recognize other headmates. This post is for systems who find themselves in this situation!

If your system’s lack of communication:

- caused your headmates to learn about your plurality fairly recently

- makes it difficult for you to coordinate plans and activities with your system

- leads you to wonder if you’re faking your plurality or not really plural at all

- makes it more challenging to understand and advocate for the care your system needs

- or caused you and your system to have any other problems or issues

Please know that excellent (or even minimal) communication is not a requirement for multiplicity! It’s okay and valid to have little to no communication within a system.

We wish y’all the very best as you continue to learn and grow together. Good communication doesn’t happen overnight! It’s a skill that must be practiced regularly in order to improve. We believe in you, we’re rooting for you, and we want you and your system to know that we’re here for you, regardless of how well the members of your system can communicate with each other!

Please take care of yourselves and your system to the best of your ability! And have a wonderful day!

(Image ID:) A pale orange userbox with a cluster of multicolored flowers for the userbox image. The border and text are both dark orange, and the text reads “all plurals can interact with this post!” (End ID.)

[the-indigo-symphony]

Pro tip for what may be a very niche audience of systems with mid level internal communication: if you can only internally communicate when trying to do so and you rarely or never hear surprising, random comments from other headmates that some other systems talk about, that is in fact normal. Internal communication is something that almost always takes time and practice to get better at, so it's not unusual for a system to have difficulty hearing each other and need to actively try to talk to each other to achieve internal communication. Hell, there's a reason that learning internal communication is a part of treatment for systems seeking medical support – because it can be difficult and it's unlikely that you've mastered it right off the bat!

Not hearing your headmates most of the time is okay. Needing to focus on talking to a headmate to internally communicate is okay. If you rarely or never get surprised by someone internally talking to you, that probably just means your internal communication has some barriers, difficulties, or quirks that other systems do not have. That does not mean you're faking; that does not mean you're less of a system. Don't fool yourself otherwise just because you see other systems getting caught off-guard by their headmates talking to them, or overhear each other talking while they're focused on something else, or anything else. They are not you, and your system is going to be different from their system. It's okay if your internal communication is different from other systems.

Tl;dr: Don't trap yourself in self-doubt if your system doesn't have perfect internal communication (including if you have internal communication that's "good enough" for your system but lacks in some areas). Internal communication (and communication skill) varies from system to system, and you don't have to have flawless communication to be a real system.

[souldivided]

should people experiencing plurality that’s not formed by trauma use a term other than “system” to describe ourselves? genuinely asking, i don’t want to use terms that are not for us, or that would give traumagenic systems seeking a community the wrong idea about what we are. please please please be nuanced in the comments

[sophieinwonderland]

System has been used by psychiatrists to describe the parts in Internal Family Systems since the 80s. It's been used endogenic systems since the 90s.

Our community has identified as systems for longer than most of the exclusionists on this site have been alive.

[voidsicle]

There's also systems like ours who are a mix. We started off traumagenic and gained endogenic members later.

From what we can tell, anyone who says certain terms are traumagenic only have an agenda and they especially hate mixed systems like us. The main purpose of splitting the community like that is ultimately respectability politics, aimed to throw endogenics under the bus.

We've also known we were a system for over a decade and when we first started looking up system stuff at 14 years old online, osdd havers were in the exact same position that endos are now.

Don't listen to pick mes, they'll always find someone to attempt to segregate and throw uner the bus.

[fenmere]

Yeah, no. We, the Inmara, are moving away from using the word "system" most of the time because we just kinda don't like it as much as simply calling ourselves a plurality.

But that question alone is pandering to bigots.

And besides, system origin is NOT system experience or system function.

Endogenic systems are just systems that weren't formed from trauma. We may have experienced trauma, a great deal of it. And we may have DID (waves), and need the exact same therapies and accommodations that other DID systems need. (Or OSDD, or DDNOS, or MPD, or any given diagnosis).

Being not formed from trauma merely means the system at large sees themselves as having existed as a system since before any trauma they can remember, and don't want to identify as being formed from it. It has nothing to do with whether or not they are disordered.

And no one should be punished for how they interpret their past or how they identify.

[souldivided]

should people experiencing plurality that’s not formed by trauma use a term other than “system” to describe ourselves? genuinely asking, i don’t want to use terms that are not for us, or that would give traumagenic systems seeking a community the wrong idea about what we are. please please please be nuanced in the comments

[night-wyld-system]

This is a heavily debated issue within the broader community. We ourselves have our own stances but first I want to say some of the stances we have seen...

a) System is a medicalized term therefore it should only be used to refer to CDD systems that are disordered in order to keep non-disordered plurals separate from those with a CDD.

b) System refers to a system of dissociated parts, therefore it should not be used by a non-disordered system.

c) Systems refer only to CDD systems, other plurals are not a system.

d) Collective should be used instead

We purposefully mentioned the ones we have a different opinion from in order to be clear that this is not a thing where our answer is the only answer. We are a polyfragmented DID system ourselves, so we are not able to speak as to whether or not non-disordered plurals should want to use the term but we don't see it as an issue if they do use it. The term "alter" to us is more tied to DID than system itself, system is a very broad word with many uses. We have a system and subsystems and we may have a sidesystem as well.

We don't see it as appropriative to use the same language to define a system with different functionality. Both are still systems based on how they operate, but the reasons for how it functions and the reasons for its creation differs. That also changes the output as well. But again they're all systems.

Collective I can understand as a substitute, however there may also be DID and OSDD systems who wish to use it themselves- meaning there will never be one term to separate disordered or non-disordered plurality/multiplicity. There are already terms created for that as adjectives.

[souldivided]

should people experiencing plurality that’s not formed by trauma use a term other than “system” to describe ourselves? genuinely asking, i don’t want to use terms that are not for us, or that would give traumagenic systems seeking a community the wrong idea about what we are. please please please be nuanced in the comments

[kipandkandicore]

hey, we’re two alters from a did system, and here’s our thoughts on terminology.

we believe anyone experiencing plurality should be able to use the language that works best for them to describe their experience.

there are some terms that (like it or not) come with clinical connotations, as they have regularly been used by medical professionals to reference patients with dissociative disorders. terms like alter, self-state, ep/anp, and system all come with these connotations. we think that if, knowing this, a plural person feels that language works best for them, and find it fits more than a different term, then they’re welcome to use it.

we also tend to refer to all people who experience plurality as systems, unless specified otherwise! it’s just easier for us to refer to plural people this way, and we feel like the word “system” is a vague enough term that it could work very well for a plural person who doesn’t view themselves specifically as “a system of dissociated parts.” we don’t feel the same about other clinical terms, though!

calling yourself a system won’t really take anything away from our community as a traumagenic system :) here on tumblr there are plenty of tags for systems with dissociative disorders. we think it doesn’t become an issue unless you start trying to speak over traumagenic systems, conflate the experiences of traumagenic and endogenic plurality, and refuse to be sensitive to the real struggles of systems with trauma histories.

hope this helps! this is our opinion, anyway.

[souldivided]

should people experiencing plurality that’s not formed by trauma use a term other than “system” to describe ourselves? genuinely asking, i don’t want to use terms that are not for us, or that would give traumagenic systems seeking a community the wrong idea about what we are. please please please be nuanced in the comments

[sophieinwonderland]

System has been used by psychiatrists to describe the parts in Internal Family Systems since the 80s. It's been used endogenic systems since the 90s.

Our community has identified as systems for longer than most of the exclusionists on this site have been alive.

[voidsicle]

There's also systems like ours who are a mix. We started off traumagenic and gained endogenic members later.

From what we can tell, anyone who says certain terms are traumagenic only have an agenda and they especially hate mixed systems like us. The main purpose of splitting the community like that is ultimately respectability politics, aimed to throw endogenics under the bus.

We've also known we were a system for over a decade and when we first started looking up system stuff at 14 years old online, osdd havers were in the exact same position that endos are now.

Don't listen to pick mes, they'll always find someone to attempt to segregate and throw uner the bus.

[souldivided]

should people experiencing plurality that’s not formed by trauma use a term other than “system” to describe ourselves? genuinely asking, i don’t want to use terms that are not for us, or that would give traumagenic systems seeking a community the wrong idea about what we are. please please please be nuanced in the comments

[souldivided]

ok just did some reading, jason is a facet i think. median system doesn’t feel 100% right, but he fits the idea of a facet pretty well, especially with his lack of a knowledge barrier (he’s aware of everything i do and everything that happens to me and probably everything i think). i do not have any sort of amnesia when he fronts, however when he *isn’t* fronting i have no idea what he gets up to

[stars-in-our-skies]

big shoutout to systems that feel like they're faking, or like they're not a real system !!

self doubt is super common in plurality!!

just because you have bad communication with your system members, or can only hear them if you focus doesn't mean you're faking it!!

yes even if they're quiet sometimes, or most of the time!!

you aren't doing it for attention!!

[souldivided]

yesterday i did boxing for the first time and jason really liked it. i used to do karate and i think that was him too. when he’s in control it’s like everything else that doesn’t really matter just disappears. his ability to focus on sports and stuff is impressive to me, since i can’t. he gets into beating the shit out of people/getting the shit beat out of him (OUR body btw :/) the way that i get into like. dogs and computer science. bro has gotta be autistic. in retrospect this explains why i was always so reluctant to go to karate practice and claimed to not like it but would always leave like :D. because he likes it but i just feel neutral about it.

even though his function seems to be to be angry, his range of emotions is more varied than i initially recognized. since finally verbalizing his existence with my last posts i’ve become way more confident in it, though still unsure and feel like i’m faking or doing something wrong. doesn’t help that jason himself is literally a 15 year old cis(?) guy and would totally be an exclus lmao. i think he has some idea about syscourse and whatever because he literally has access to all of my thoughts but he likes to pretend like he’s not involved in any of this

i think he’s glad i’ve acknowledged his existence. maybe some day he will be willing to talk to me. but seeing how rarely he talks when he’s in control (only to yell at people basically) probably a ways off. it’s good that he can be in the loop without me telling him things but i’d like to know more about him. i’m going to cater to his interests more and see if that changes our relationship at all.

[souldivided]

i didn’t explain because i don’t really know how it works, but he knows what happens when he’s not out. it’s necessary for him to know so that when he has to stick up for me he has the context. but i don’t have to tell him, he just knows. whatever he’s doing when he’s just chilling in the head, he’s still paying attention. i don’t get the same transparency to know much about him though.

[souldivided]

yesterday i did boxing for the first time and jason really liked it. i used to do karate and i think that was him too. when he’s in control it’s like everything else that doesn’t really matter just disappears. his ability to focus on sports and stuff is impressive to me, since i can’t. he gets into beating the shit out of people/getting the shit beat out of him (OUR body btw :/) the way that i get into like. dogs and computer science. bro has gotta be autistic. in retrospect this explains why i was always so reluctant to go to karate practice and claimed to not like it but would always leave like :D. because he likes it but i just feel neutral about it.

even though his function seems to be to be angry, his range of emotions is more varied than i initially recognized. since finally verbalizing his existence with my last posts i’ve become way more confident in it, though still unsure and feel like i’m faking or doing something wrong. doesn’t help that jason himself is literally a 15 year old cis(?) guy and would totally be an exclus lmao. i think he has some idea about syscourse and whatever because he literally has access to all of my thoughts but he likes to pretend like he’s not involved in any of this

i think he’s glad i’ve acknowledged his existence. maybe some day he will be willing to talk to me. but seeing how rarely he talks when he’s in control (only to yell at people basically) probably a ways off. it’s good that he can be in the loop without me telling him things but i’d like to know more about him. i’m going to cater to his interests more and see if that changes our relationship at all.

[only-knives]

the existence of endogenic systems really helps me accept being a traumagenic (and endogenic) system. i'll be picking myself apart going is this real? is this possible? does this really happen with [diagnosis]?

and then i remember endogenic systems exist and im like. who cares actually. there isn't one way to be plural and there never was. why judge ourselves based on the psych system. our experiences are real just by experiencing them.

[thelunastusco]

Hi, an “endogenic” refresher course, right here!

1. We introduced the term “endogenic” into the community August 2014, along with some other terms! It was in response to exclusionists (wrongly) complaining about “systems without DID” using “their words”. It was an attempt at creating nonmedicalized terms that any plural system could use. 

2. It was also a way to do away with terms that had fallen into disfavor— specifically “natural systems”, a term that had been in use possibly as early as 1994. It was disliked because people felt it implied that trauma-caused systems were unnatural. “Endogenic” fixed that. 

3. The word “endogenic” was lovingly created to help systems put their experience into words. All it means is “a system not formed by trauma”; it doesn’t imply any other cause, set of beliefs, or experiences. It doesn’t imply the system is nondisordered or doesn’t have trauma. It doesn’t mean any other system’s origins in trauma or dx status is “invalid” or whatever.

4. Though the terms were eventually posted to tumblr, the idea didn’t start there. Tumblr was created in 2007; the concept of systems not caused by trauma has, again, been online since the 90s. Nor was the term created by singlets! We’re a trauma-caused system with DID. 

5. “Endogenic” wasn’t created as an insult or to exclude anyone. We have loved ones who are endogenic. Many of the terms in use now were created by endogenics. They have helped preserve plural history, and defended the community. They are good people, and real systems. The hate they get is completely senseless.

Thanks for coming to our talk. Please stop insulting endogenic systems, and educate yourselves instead, thanks. (Unless it’s just pure malice at this point in which case, fuck off I guess.)

https://endogenichub.weebly.com/ is a decent site to learn more.