Link/Zelda (The Legend of Zelda) vs Akechi Goro/Kurusu Akira (Persona)
Link/Zelda
Akechi/Akira
Voting ended onMay 6, 2024
This poll is a celebration of fandom and fandom history; we're aware that there are certain issues with many of the listed pairings and sources, but they are a part of that history. Please do not take this as an endorsement, and refrain from harassment.
This is a somewhat fast and loose approximation of my recall of historical taxes, who paid them (or didnât) and how, how they were collected and from whom, and what kind of taxation was even possible under different governments. This is pulled from a couple decades of study into historical society and books Iâve read on feudalism, the social duties of knights, and government structure and instability in both medieval Europe and the Ottoman Empire, among others.
Notes on organization:
1. While this is a response to a Linked Universe post, I am going per game not per Link because a few games must be split. The implications about taxes are drastically different between LttP & LbW, and Minish Cap & FSA. I also wished to include Spirit Tracks bc itâs fun.
I am not linking the inspiring post, because I don't believe in attacking people for a ten minute list just because it twigged my history brain.
2. I am excluding games in which Link is not implied to be a tax-paying resident of the country heâs in, so Majoraâs Mask, Oracle of Ages & Seasons, and Phantom Hourglass are not included.
3. There are usually overlapping taxes in a society. Here I will mostly address taxes on residents, on vocations or landownership, whether they can pay in coin or in kind, and if they have a household that would pay tax for them.
4. I have placed Hyrule Warriors in Child Timeline here for a few reasons, mostly related to army structure implications, the martial norms of the game and the two preceding ones (large standing armies in FSA and HW; mentions of âprolonged warsâ and very military flavoured royal regalia in Twilight Princess.) Obviously this doesnât strictly mean anything or oblige agreement, but its my habit to do so and I wished to explain the choice.
I apologize so much for how long this is. If you wish to read it in a different format, it's also on AO3.
This is 2000+ words. I suppose if you click, I hope you enjoy.
A note on Knighthood:
Knights were a specific, highly trained profession often (but not always) associated with landownership, either someone who was in the household of the landowner, or who was the landowner themself. The trappings of knighthood (weapons, armour, and horse) were quite expensive and belonging to a family of knights implies a specific degree of social status in and of itself.
While a sovereign can in theory bestow any title they want on anyone at any time, usually this requires that there be some service rendered for which this is a gift. (Fucking them, or just being hella attractive, counts.) Because of this, there is a wide variety of things âKnightâ can mean, but here we will presume it means some degree of professionalism and attachment to a social status that is both someone who collects taxes from subjects and pays them to a sovereign in turn.
IIII
Skyward Sword =
There is no evidence of centralized government in Skyward Sword, therefore the taxes are going to whoever is in charge of the settlement. They were likely paid in kind (material goods), although Skyloft does have coin. Given we know whoâs basically running Skyloft, we can guess they were paid to Gaepora, and at least one tax-funded organization: the Knightâs Academy.
Did students pay taxes? Graduates might be exempt from some taxes if still in service to the city. Afterwards, given heâs usually presumed to be married to Zelda, we can say Link is either paying taxes (or hearing about it personally at dinner), and/or helping collect and distribute taxes to others.
Or, even funnier, setting taxes on the new community because they need supplies to build it.
Minish Cap =
There is a central government in Minish Cap, because they have a monarch! This is probably a small territory: some âkingsâ have a few villages and fields and thatâs it, but it is a castle which requires taxed goods to function because itâs not producing its own.
Linkâs grandfather is a blacksmith, and also alive therefore if the census tax is paid per household, Link has nothing to do with it. If its paid per business, heâs an apprentice or employee so itâs still paid by his grandfather. Depending on which taxes were being paid when, they might pay coin or in kind (eg. Labour or goods produced.) While people absolutely did lie and cheat and not pay taxes, I expect the con artistry didnât involve ârefundsâ in a modern sense, but thatâs probably tax history specialization territory...
Four Swords =
This game doesnât have enough of a framing story to comment on its social structures, but is superficially similar enough to Minish Cap we can assume the situation matches.
Ocarina of Time =
We literally see Talon paying his taxes in kind in the game. Like, you canât pay milk as a lump sum so delivering it reliably to the castle could be counted towards his taxes, or heâs getting paid enough for it that will be paying for it later. Either way, supplies are delivered from Lon Lon Ranch by its owner who is still alive after the game and presumably will continue to be responsible for it until he is no longer owner of Lon Lon Ranch.
(Malon likely is a valid heir to Lon Lon Ranch. There is no reason to assume marriage affects her legal claim to Lon Lon Ranch. It is not common for a woman to lose her property in marriage â British law is the exception to historical norms â so even if Talon died she could still be sole and/or primary owner of Lon Lon Ranch, whether or not she is married.)
Link starts out the game not even on a Hyrulean census, with no property to his name, and no social connections. He is not paying taxes because he does not legally exist. Until he is counted on a poll as a resident of either Castletown or Lon Lon Ranch, and until heâs considered an adult (usually by means of acquiring personal property or skill of any value) heâs unlikely to be taxed.
Now, if we include into the assumed connections to the Heroâs Shade who died in elaborate plate mail we get a very different answer. Someone who owns elaborate plate mail of that sort has significant money. He may have received it as a gift for service to the crown, but if so it likely wasnât the only gift. Plate mail is often associated with knights; a knight of some consequence is likely attached by some means or another to property. Knights under a King usually collected taxes for them... So, in a world where Link has platemail and is a valued knight of the Hylian Crown he may also, like Skyloft, be the person collecting taxes to pass them on. Whether or not that means he now technically owns Lon Lon Ranch by means of owning the land itâs on.... I leave that up to you.
Wind Waker =
Outset Island most likely operates like Skyloft: there is a headman or prominent family who collects surplus to give as aid, either in terms of money or food or services. Within that space, Link living with an invalid grandmother and also underage sister was probably one of those families receiving surplus as social support, possibly on top of whatever his grandmother was still capable of in her old age.
However, Link is implied post-game to leave with Tetra. What taxes did a ship and its crew owe? Harbour dues, customs, and other duties! This varied a lot and was usually addressed whenever someone docked at a controlled port. Often questions were asked about where the materials came from, more or less scrupulously. Sometimes people cared if you just happened to have something without a sound origin, that you had taken from someone else... like we see Tetraâs crew doing in-game...
It may indeed be possible Tetra (and her crew) are wanted for tax evasion and Link gets to be included in that, whatever his age.
Spirit Tracks =
This boy works for the centralized governmentâs transit system. If he doesnât pay taxes, itâs because he doesnât owe taxes because heâs working a tax-funded job and likely has been since he was an apprentice. He is possibly also union and knows the local tax law in extremely nuanced detail. He will judge you for not paying your taxes.
Twilight Princess =
The start of the story is also framed around the village blacksmith making some kind of tax-like offering to the royal family and setting Link up to take it. This is likely not a normal tax, but it does tell us that Ordon Village is considered a designated social unit within Hyrule and therefore we may assume that âOrdon Villageâ is a taxable entity in its own right. Link, as a resident of Ordon Village, would pay his portion of the villageâs tax to the Mayor who arranged for its delivery. If Link marries Ilia, you can expect once again this is someone who either hears about taxes over dinner, or is helping collect them.
If Link leaves and moves to Castle Town, heâd have the joys of all the things large city residents pay for, up front or not, that village residents who are not transporting food and goods long distances but those will be sales and customs taxes, not per-person taxes based off the census or his vocation.
Four Swords Adventures [Game + Comic] =
Linkâs family is explicitly positioned as either a knight family, or a legacy castle guard family with close personal ties to the royal family. He also has a living father, who is implied to survive the game/comic. As such, with Link a minor, heâs not paying taxes because heâs not liable for taxes. He also may be paying taxes by means of collecting taxed goods from the lands over which his family has ownership and paying a portion of that income to the Crown themselves.
Interesting, this could also tie into something Iâll mention in more detail below but one form of âevading taxesâ can be ârefusing to do labour.â If he is from a family whose young men are supposed to provide service to the Crown in the form of military labour, âleavingâ is a crime.
Hyrule Warriors =
In this game, Link explicitly starts as a base soldier. It is possible for soldiers to be a form of population tax (and/or control) especially in larger kingdoms or empires. He likely did receive regular pay, but he might also have been considered legal property of the Kingdom, eg a slave. Either way, his upkeep was entirely from the taxes that went into the coffers, whether it was in food or kind. Post-game, heâs likely been involved in rebuilding which again would be in large part executed by taxed goods and labour. He might even be part of the apparatus collecting or setting taxes, especially if he becomes close with Zelda herself.
Link to the Past =
Link is explicitly stated to belong to a knight family, with an adult family member who is (arguably) alive at the end of the game. If he is paying taxes, heâs paying them from taxes paid to his family. Not paying your taxes as a knight family is infinitely more suspicious than not paying them as an individual, because then your monarch wonders what youâre using that money for. Is it rebellion? It better not be rebellion.
Link Between Worlds =
THIS Link is a Blacksmith apprentice. He does not have any known adult family. He may be assessed as part of the household he is apprenticed to; he might be assessed as independent depending on his age and where he is in his training and what the local tax law looks like. If there is a guild he may be assessed by means of his membership... but that may also be a separate tax from what heâs paying per the census. He could likely avoid it altogether, because heâs not exactly important at this age and social rank.
Ravio, on the other hand, is in some way involved with the Royal Family of Lorule (Hilda is personally betrayed he left.) However, Lorule is a failed state. There is no means by which they can collect taxes, nor distribute them... which is likelywhy Hilda has no control over her guards. (People arenât very obedient when not getting paid.) Recovery to a state where taxation is reliable and people feel itâs worth doing will be a long road.
Zelda I & II =
Same as above: Hyrule is a failed state, at best in the process of recovery in Zelda II. People likely do not trust the tax collectors who do exist to pay their dues to the Crown vs keeping it for themselves. This is a matter of power rules. Link, a minor with no property, is likely of zero interest to anyone unless they sell children. In Zelda II, where he lives close enough to approach Impa with a question, he may be paying taxes if he has a vocation or he may be helping work in the castle, which brings us back to heâs collecting, distributing and/or paid by taxes.
BOTW & TOTK =
Hyrule here is NOT a failed state because they do not have a central government attempting to exert control. Here, things are more like Wind Waker or Skyward Sword: village mayors or prominent families control local taxation. There is limited intercommunity interactions, which are likely a matter of market tax. Link, if he settles in Hateno village, would be accountable to them.
In TOTK, we do see some kind of centralization: thereâs the joint effort to construct Lookout Landing and the monster patrols, both of which would require outside support until local agriculture begins. Which communities contribute is hard to say, but most villages at this time are more than prosperous enough to spare the means. A new settlement would reduce overcrowding, increase the land available to farm, and so on: all good things for a prospering world.
(This does NOT imply they are re-establishing the monarchy. None of these groups call themselves âroyalâ. Theyâre monster patrols, not royal guards, and Lookout Landing, not a new Castletown. The location has access to already-quarried stone and trade routes going for it, after all.)
Given how Link behaves in both games, it seems likely he would contribute whatever surplus he acquires to these efforts. Out of every Link, I think he is the most likely to be cooperative with taxation... although there may be some arguments about what his taxable means is. Should this be paid in rupees or bokoblin guts? Letâs negotiate!
TL;DR =
Taxes vary wildly across time, space, regions, and forms of government. While some Links live in similar social circumstances, we have at least four really distinct categories: the Knights, the failed states, those with vocations, and the villagers. Similarly, many forms of taxes are for social support, things that Link tends to be characterized as valuing in the games. When people refuse to pay, they either do not see the request or authority as legitimate, or do not have the means to do so.
IDK itâs just infinitely funnier to me to say âWind Waker Link is wanted for tax evasion because Tetra has never paid a harbour duty tax in her lifeâ vs stating the evasion without cause. All the best!
i have two points of contention/collaboration here! on OoT (dips into TP) and BotW specifically, i'll start with the latter since its shorter.
So link paying taxes in boko guts is a joke but considering that monster parts are widely used for useful elixirs, and link is consistently able to kill even the strongest monsters, i think fae would be very much in demand for those guts! Hell, there's one gerudo lady whose relative needs molduga guts for medicine. then this short weirdo nods in sympathy, leaves for a couple hours, the plaps down a huge organ like Is This The Right One. can you Imagine. Every gerudo and her mother would be out to harvest that dead molduga.
Furthermore as a professional Gadabout and lack of safe roads, link is a prime mover of goods and seeker thereof. link is a busy fellah!
Now, several points on OoT.
I don't know why Link would be in charge of Lon Lon Ranch. Unless you mean that fae marries Malon? It wasn't stated in your post so I was confused.
Anyway the major point here is that there is absolutely no way the Kokiri pay taxes. Not in a formal sense, anyway. They're fairies! They don't do this paperwork nonsense! They make Deals with the local mortals which is likely what is entered into the accountants' records instead. Goodwill is extremely important here, much like with the Zoras and their water rights. So for Kokiri I imagine a representative of the crown has negotiated a trade deal where they'll receive goods (grain and dairy goods, which cant be raised/grown in the woods easily, and they have a fondness for) in exchange for forest resources. Say, a woodcutter can collect x amount of wood in exchange for y gallons of milk from her cow, or a mycologist will bring bags of bran in exchange for a certain amount of mushroom collecting. The Kokiri can absolutely enforce their Deals: as we've seen, they can make mortals get lost, and eventually banefully transform into Stalfos.
Honestly OoT Hyrule is such a curiosity for me bc it seems to be a confederation between a central Hylia (for lack of a better word) and other Nations adjacent to it.
Now a very interesting tidbit: Ingo is preparing to pay taxes to Ganondorf. So Ganondorf is doing statecraft (and in the 3ds version, has a portrait of himself comissioned which ingo's miniature is a copy of) and collecting taxes. Furthermore, since Ingo knows that Epona is a "useless" horse whom no one can approach, he's basically committing tax fraud. Unless he can argue that Epona would just need to be broken in? Either way, the implications of this are important to the tax question.
That said, Ganondorf's rule has to be extremely unpopular and i imagine he'd have a lot of difficulty collecting taxes. I mean, with the recent freezing the Zora's Domain he's caused a huge drop in water levels, grossly so as seen in Lake Hylia. This kind of severe drought would impact crops and livestock all along the west and south side of Hyrule and beyond, devastating and starving thousands. Even his own people! I imagine he's very unpopular with the Gerudo since the water they depend on has dropped tremendously.
So yknow realistically Ganondorf would face a farmers rebellion even if Link didn't do something first. (i headcanon that the pre-game civil war was over border disputes and grazing rights)
Now, even more relevant to Link: the Skulltula House. Assuming fae breaks the whole curse, the wealthy family will give Link up to 500 rupees at a time, at any time. Now realistically there's a limit to wealth but the point remains that Link is being gifted a huge amount of money. That must be taxed, yes? In TP with the cursed rich man there would be a similar idea, i imagine...
Pity the tax collector who has to enter the Haunted House to collect taxes from the skulltula'd folks. Or, imagine Sheik watching Link get an absurd amount of money and privately has to pretend he doesnt see that bc he's not acting as Zelda right now and won't care about the unreported wealth.
Now for a goofier idea: Ganondorf seeking Link for Backtaxes. Can you imagine. In my thought, they're in court, Ganondorf representing himself (because of course) and Sheik representing Link.
Sheik would argue that Link was too young, of course! Ganondorf counters that since Kokiri are eternally children, their age of majority is much younger. That's when Sheik has to go to the Great Deku Sprout to get an affadavit that Link is a human and thus would be too young. (the other kokiris would repel any agents of ganondorf but also dont do Paperwork. what are you a cop)
Sheik could argue that Link wasn't in Hyrule, but sleeping in the Sacred Realm, and thus not occupying the country. But wouldn't Link be a citizen regardless? And the Kokiri don't pay taxes formally to begin with.
So yknow even if Link was found guilty of tax evasion, Link could pay in so many pounds of deku seeds and so much timber.
The judge is a Stalfos, by the way. Originating from the Kokiri Forest, but recruited under Ganondorf, so has the divided interests to keep them impartial.
They shouldâve let botw/totk link have VISIBLE scars and one arm and NPCs should generally be scared of him because heâs a freak who eats raw slabs of meat and accidentally blows himself up on the regular. And he should be grimy as fuck
I donât understand why people hate Turkish delight so much. Itâs pretty good. I donât think many of the haters who are like âNarnia made me think this would be good, but it sucksâ have had authentic Turkish delight tbh. If I was a kid used to wartime rations Iâd be enamored with it too
amid the celebrations about the queen probably dying soon, we need to remember how this will negatively affect the country. there will be millions spent on a funeral and charlesâs coronation while we are in the middle of a severe economic crisis and working class families are having to choose between heating and food. it will take attention away from all the important politics and parliament may be suspended. all news and television will be about her death and her reign â itâs been said that comedy programmes will be cancelled for potentially up to a fortnight out of ârespectâ.
yes, celebrate this news. but her death does not erase the fact that the monarchy exists, and it will be a spit in the face for working people when the money we all so desperately need is spent on her and the rest of her family
