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@sugarplumchicken
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so let's make a list in the case of armand, the writers:
made the trial into a lynching in which he also tried to kill louis
further diminished his relationship with louis by having him manipulate and mindfuck him for 77 years (when in the book, louis was aware of armand's part in claudia's death)
diminished his relationship with lestat by making it solely a one-sided obsession on his part
diminished his relationship with daniel by removing the romantic aspect of their past together and only leaving armand stalking him
made a trafficked csa victim distribute revenge porn (still with zero exploration of his own history of sa)
have him complicit in the beheadings of both lestat and louis (characters he genuinely loved in the books and who loved him back)
literally have lestat say that he did more damage than akasha
and you genuinely want me to believe that they're not intending him to be viewed as the villain of the show?
So, Lestat gets to be held and comforted over his properly fleshed-out abuse without it becoming a seasons-long punchline or tool to advance someone else. That's nice.
so ironic watching certain fans tryna cancel louis for his reaction to lestat and gabrielle's relationship when i know for a fact they're the same people who tout 'i'm the vampire armand and my daddy vampire groomed me into a little bitch' as one of louis' most iconic lines
I don't know where this fandom notion comes from that Louis has to be a 'poor little lamb' to be abused by Armand or Lestat. For example, I could be the meanest bitchiest person and still be abused by my husband who's physically so much stronger than me (and in Louis's case; also knew a great deal more about the vampire world which Louis had just been born into and had no clue how to navigate). Could I walk away from that relationship at anytime? Sure, if you're not accounting for the fact that every time I gather the strength to leave, he will gaslight/guilt/otherwise manipulate me into staying. Or occasionally beat me to a pulp/punish me in other ways, only to then love bomb me into accepting him back. Or that he has isolated me from my dear family and friends from the very beginning, and is now the only companion I have and the only person on earth I could turn to.
And once again, I had NEVER NOT ONCE seen the folks discussing Armand/Lestat abusing Louis claim that Louis was NOT mean/cold, or that he was an innocent little angel. All they're saying is that Louis didn't deserve to be dropped from the sky, or have his friend Miss Lily (and potentially also his beloved brother) killed, or to be lynched for trying to escape his last abusive marriage, or to have his disabled daughter be made fun of in an endless string of pickaninny shows and then murdered; all because he was 'being a big ole meanie' to his husband/boyfriend at the time – both of whom, mind you, ALSO HAD FULL AGENCY TO LEAVE THE RELATIONSHIP if they couldn't handle Louis (an emotionally repressed Catholic gay man from Jim Crow's South) being cold to them.
From reading reviews and dissections of TVL from Black viewership, AMC - like a lot of television corpos - did not anticipate a (Black) critical viewership for the show, and what's more, do not appreciate critical (Black) viewership that isn't lavishing praise.
In particular, they seem particularly irked that Lestat's abuse of Claudia and Louis, and participation in Armand's sham trial (lynching), is still snapping at his heels when folk talk about him. And mind you, this discussion is happening among Black folks who like (camp a) and dislike (camp b) Lestat as a character.
To that end, they truly seem to be reacting, sympathetically, to the white folks who find this aspect of Black critical reviews of the franchise (in totality) bothersome or an obstacle to their particular enjoyment of the series (because they see it 'everywhere' on social media). In which case, a lot of yt commentaries on the show are particularly about needing Louis to do something they can pull up as an example of how Black fans are ignoring his flaws and deifying him.
Holding his past as a pimp against him (or refusing to evaluate his capitalist behavior as anything other than pimp, and not a standard businessman), and ultimately, some hope that Lestat's POV will definitively out Louis (and Claudia) as liars of some sort.
Bc, apparently, the showrunners have created a narrative amongst themselves that fans accused Lestat of raping or threatening to rape Claudia, vs. talking about the totality of his abusive behavior post-ep5 (s1). In particular, how he threatened to carry out physical harm and often did.
(Non-Black fans driving criticism is they believe Black fans of the show feel Louis and Claudia have done no wrong, or simply aren't as critical of them as they are of Lestat. When, if you're Black and you spend most of your time talking abt IWTV and TVL with other Black folks, that couldn't be further from the truth.
But seeing as they aren't invited into Black fan spaces, all the non-Black side of this fanspace can or tends to do is react negatively and or take the criticism of TVL/Lestat often as a personal attack.)
It reminds me of how the writers (and fans) reacted to how Black folks reviewed and talked about Sleepy Hollow during the second season. More than a few elements in that show post-S1 truly felt like a manifestation of their frustration that certain characters (Ichabod and/or his wife) or ideas (random white men showing up every other episode, then becoming recurring or supporting leads) weren't embraced, or that the show was being reviewed so critically (when it was clear Abbie was being shorted).
(But I'll say this plain so there's no misunderstanding: They are not Lestat's abusers. There is nothing they've done to Lestat that wasn't about protecting themselves (and each other) from him. There is no unicorn of "mutual abuse" involved in their former dynamic. Nothing for them to repent or make amends for regarding Lestat.
Louis' failures as a parent or brother to Claudia are not comparable to Lestat's harms. The only person Louis will ever have to make amends to is Claudia. Claudia's hatred of Louis is not the same as her contempt for Lestat (nor does it negate the love she carried for him, however soured it became), nor does it mean Louis is exactly like Lestat (or her rapist).
This is something non-Black fans (and even the writers themselves) need to make peace with and understand.
Or just fuck off.)
the idea that louis needed lestat's consent to portray him in his story is so fucking funny. do you guys not know how biography works? do you realize that lestat was louis' abusive husband? louis is allowed to talk about his family and relationships lol. like the only "violation" towards lestat was mentioning his traumatic turning he talked about in s1e6. but it's pretty common that people overshare things like this in the interviews, especially when they wanna paint their abusers in a more sympathetic or "nuanced" light. it's a job of the journalist and their editors to redact or rephrase this stuff in a published work.
like, the only truly objectively fucked-up thing louis did in the interview was showing daniel claudia's diaries. that's a violation on multiple levels and an extension of louis seeing claudia as someone who "belonged" to him instead of her own person. i'm fully ready to see louis get wacked by ghost claudia, but keep lestat's bullshit out of this discussion.
people who don't understand why some fans (mostly black and bipoc fans) think the writing in this season is racist:
unexplained racialized verbal abuse (claudia and daniel at and about louis and even towards claudia herself)
calling louis a slave but then praising and absolving the white man who would have been his 'master' in the same breath
torture porn of the black abuse victim with no real reason - they could have achieved the same armand backstory with something different - what the fuck was the point of that and to brand him after???
writing bipoc characters as just emotional support characters to the white character
absolving a white abuser from ipv and transferring that blame back to the black victim
people will explain away all the points above and say each point was somehow necessary, but the most appalling thing of all is:
s1 and 2 was a black show. whether amc marketed it as such is irrelevant, it fits the criteria of having two black protagonists that have rich backstories
this show went from louis killing fenwick and putting a colored-only sign up to whatever the fuck this is now
this bait-and-switch is absolutely ridiculous. so amc builds the show off the backbones of their black cast members but then dehumanizes them once the white protagonist becomes the main character.
armand's, a south asian character, entire plotline this season was irrelevant basically. they set up this whole fucking thing about the great conversion only for it to be torture porn for the black character WHILE ONCE AGAIN ABSOLVING THE WHITE ABUSER.
all this season did was paint bipoc characters (louis, claudia, armand) as the most one-dimensional characters that nod yes or become an obstacle for the white character - the most hurtful part is that s1 and 2 was dealt with with such care only for black and bipoc fans to be duped.
and most of all, though this point is not the fault of the writers perse, this fandom is so fucking racist they will latch onto pimp louis and evil lyncher armand for the next two years even if things do get explained later and the racism real bipoc fans are about to see in the fandom is about to be so egregious because this show is showing they fucking sanction it.
IWTVL S3 Ep3 Musings - The Abuse Show
"F**k these vampires!" -- Claudia
Remember when I pointed out that people generally are so desensitized towards abuse and unjust "provoked" violence towards Black people in media and reality that both the audience and the nonblack writers were going to start to handwave Louis' abuse away as unimportant, comedic, and not as severe as it was portrayed in the actual material? And everyone jumped me like I was crazy...
I feel like maybe, in the year 2026, society should be above writing a scene where a woman says she lied about rape threats from her parent and abuser in order to manipulate her other parent, but the writers of AMC’s The Vampire Lestat have proven otherwise.
I feel like maybe, in the year 2026, society should be above writing a scene where a woman says she lied about rape threats from her parent and abuser in order to manipulate her other parent, but the writers of AMC’s The Vampire Lestat have proven otherwise.
i still cannot believe the writers let lestat off that easy wrt to claudia… he participated in her lynching and helped turn it into a spectacle for a majority white audience to watch his black daughter burn to death and chose to let her die 100% of his own volition after being an abusive parent to her for decades and claims to feel oh-so bad about it in s2ep8 but i’m not seeing that at all in s3… claudia doesn’t seem to haunt lestat at all until we get to the episode with ‘stained glass eyes’ which as a story beat is wildly unearned considering we haven’t seen him grieve her or confront his role in her death at all in s3. and her and louis’ hallucinations are silent which rubs me the wrong way but claudia’s especially like there’s no way she would be tenderly pressing her head to the glass like that… so many ppl are claiming it was character assassination for LOUIS to portray claudia like that in s1 and s2 actually! and it’s like wtf are you people talking about… louis doesn’t see her 100% clearly but the narrative never lets him forget that and it certainly doesn’t allow him to fabricate a more palatable version of her to comfort himself thru his grief, because when he tries at the end of s1 (saying claudia just couldn’t burn lestat) DANIEL AND THE AUDIENCE SEE THRU THE BULLSHIT. we know this is what louis wants to believe happened to make himself feel better but ultimately his arc is about confronting his past and making peace with his immortality so he isn’t allowed to stay within that delusion. lestat on the other hand is allowed to be as delusional as he pleases. there is nothing and no one forcing him to get his story straight so he gets to portray claudia as demure and quiet as she presses her forehead to the other side of the studio glass.. lestat gets to tell us she is openly hostile to louis at the seance and calls him a “nappy headed slave” that she hates more than her rapist but says that lestat was always her favorite because “that’s her blood that’s her maker,” going so far as to almost praise his lynching of her, saying she would’ve done the same herself… all of this is coming from lestat completely unverified there is absolutely no outside perspective and yet some of yall are telling me this is “the real claudia”??? i knew that people would treat lestat’s perspective as inherently more reliable than louis’ because they’re racist but at this point it literally feels like the writers didn’t bother having daniel or any other narrative device there to unpack lestats skewed perspective because they don’t think it’s skewed or in need of unpacking… they treated louis’ perspective as unreliable and in need of interrogation and dissection because to them louis is just a lying pimp liar who lies but lestat who LYNCHED THEIR DAUGHTER is allowed to tell himself this story about secretly having been her favorite the whole time… like what exactly is lestat’s character arc? louis has to realize much of what he believed about his past wasn’t accurate and he played a larger role in claudia’s suffering than he would’ve liked to believe in s1/s2 (ofc has to realize armand has been lying for close to 80 yrs and lestat saved him at the trial but that’s realizations about other people) but what does lestat realize in s3? that his evil bitch mother is the problem and that louis will always believe he needs to repent and thus will always come crawling back to lestat? that he can do whatever he wants to louis and it’ll be the love he “deserves”? that claudia is proud of him lynching her and proud of being his blood? why is louis’ character arc about facing his mistakes and “humbling himself” after the loss of a child and going thru two different decades long abusive marriages, while lestat’s character arc after abusing his black husband and daughter and LYNCHING THEIR BLACK DAUGHTER (I CANNOT STRESS THIS ENOUGH) and showing no contrition and taking no accountability for it is about “self love and forgiveness”???
^^^ this is what the white show runner thinks about these characters and the end of their arcs this season btw. lestat needs self love and forgiveness and louis needs to stop playing the victim card… here’s the full interview if you wanna read but every new thing that comes out of rolin jones’ mouth is worse than the last
The Vampire Lestat cast and creator Rolin Jones unpack that finale, from Lestat and Paul's reunion to that Queen of the Damned tease.
also, might I say, it’s crazy how many people on tumblr specifically are so distraught and saying that they’re struggling to watch the show after seeing bad things happen to Lestat as if Claudia wasn’t being put thru the wringer literally every episode she was in for two whole seasons, like now that it’s a white man instead of a black girl yall are uncomfy all of a sudden?
So much happened in 3x06 that Louis’ nuke of also being a victim of incestual abuse almost slipped past me. Are we suppose to pretend that Louis getting paid by a family member to sexually assault him doesn’t recontextualize literally everything? His view on sexual violence? Why he went into the sex work industry and started running brothels in the first place?
Did none of the other Du Lacs know about this? Was he told not to tell anyone? Or, worse, did his parents know and he was still told not to tell anyone to uphold the illusion of an upstanding family? Does this have any bearing on why he used to be so reserved and tight lipped about his vulnerabilities? Does this add another layer as to why he used to recoil from his own sexuality, beyond the political landscape and his religious upbringing?
Does this play a role in his desperation to be seen as a good son and good brother and overall good family man, after being a victim of incest? And getting paid for it? What effect did this have on the way he views profit and exploitation? On the way he views himself? On the way he bases so much of his identity & self worth on his ties to other people?
Screaming from the rooftops that Louis was paid to be sexually abused by a family member! Was this a single event? Did this happen several times? How old was he??
AM I JUST SUPPOSED TO LET THIS GO??????
"thank you for loving him, for loving him the way he needs to be loved"
who am i, louis? am i my history i have endured? am i the job i do not want? no one has painted me in over 400 years.
[are you companions] yes. [no.]
i want you. i want you more than anything in the world.
are you asking, maître?
i artlessly assumed companionship, which was wish-fulfilling delusion rooted in childhood conflict.
they were my coven for 200 years. and i could not count on your love lasting as long.
i will spend my life making it up to you. [you'll never make it up to me] i know.
the room's soiled and once again, i'm here with mop and mindlessness to clean it up!
if you wanted to escape from this prison of empathy i’ve locked you away in. all you had to do was ask.
louis thinks i'm boring. do you find me boring?
you left me for death.
i preserve louis' happiness even when he won't or can't.
come to me.
i could talk until the end of the world about what you've destroyed here.
i love you, lestat.
and i locked those words away for the next 150 years. until you came along and shattered that lock.
and i thought if i'm not with him i am nothing.
everyone gone. you hear them but you can't see them.
everything that gives you happiness, gives me, louis!
my name is arun and i'm an addict.
i have been enduring intense conversation with myself.
i wish to read you something i've written from the deepest regions of my soul [you have no soul]
i look for the vulnerability within the object.
i am your maker! i cannot get into your head any longer!
it wasn't my love for louis. but it was love.
i want to be your maker. i want to give you half your life back. help you walk in the sun.
my first memory. i'm being run down by slavers in delhi. my second... an eager black hole.
i think i might be a room without walls, floors, a ceiling. an infinite nothing.
i've seen it all before. i've seen too much, louis.