Saul Colt: The time traveling, story-telling, superhero marketer.
We’ve decided to do something a bit different this year with the Suprpod blog. Instead of writing pieces of content from our point of view, we’re bringing you interviews with some of the best marketers in the world. We’re kicking things off with Saul Colt, Canada’s Best Word of Mouth Marketer. I’ve known Saul for a couple of years now, and have always admired his way of marketing brands. I transcribed the interview for you all below, so get ready for some time travel, a few stories, and Saul’s quest to become Batman.
Tell me about yourself and how you got into marketing.
I got into marketing sort of accidentally - I didn’t even realize I was doing it. I was working in the family business, and as a side project, I wanted to be a film director. I didn’t have enough money to make my own independent film, so I started making comic books. I became an accidental entrepreneur, where I ended up with a publishing company. Making comic books is wonderful, but you have to sell them to generate revenue to produce more and more. I ended up spending a lot of time on message boards and going to conferences and conventions, and speaking to people. I ended up learning as I went along how to market to people, how to do real niche marketing, which I think is something I do very well. Ultimately, because I didn’t have a lot of money to spend on a marketing budget, I became really good at word of mouth marketing and started honing that craft as an effort to sell my comic books. Through there I sort of launched my career into other things, higher-profile things, and working with some interesting people.
Do you still do a lot of comic book drawing? Is that still your passion, or has marketing taken over?
I still love the idea of comic books, and a lot of my closest friends were made during that time of my life, but I don’t really read comic books anymore - I just don’t have the time. However, I enjoy superhero movies, and I follow what my friends are doing with their books.
So who is your favourite superhero?
Batman. As a child, I wanted to be Batman because it seemed the most realistic opportunity - he was just a rich guy. I assumed I would be rich someday, so I could be Batman as opposed to being born with some superpower. I could just train my body to develop superpowers. The license plate on my car is actually BATMOBLE.
Tell us about your recent IndieGoGo campaign, raising funds to become Batman.
I raised about $100. Since I didn’t raise the million dollars I was looking for, I didn’t collect the money - I gave it all back. But that’s an interesting thing you bring up. I talk about learning things on the go, and the reason I launched that campaign where I wanted people to give me a million dollars to become Batman, was that I really wanted to understand how the crowd-funding programs work, like Kickstarter and IndieGoGo. I picked a campaign that I knew would never get funded, but I wanted to go through the entire process of building a page, promoting it, seeing reactions, using the comments, and everything. It was really just a test of something I knew I’d never actually have to follow through on, because I wasn’t going to raise a million dollars.
You have a very unique and quirky personality - which, anyone who knows you knows very well. How do you feel that your personal brand has led to your success in the marketing space?
I attribute a lot of my success to my personal brand for a couple reasons. It’s given me the opportunity to stand out in front of some other people, opening doors for me there. As far as my personality...I’m interested in things that other people aren’t interested in. I consume pop culture, I watch far too much television, I read three-four books a month, and I’m not reading the same things as everyone else is reading. Because my interests are different, I’m coming up with different ideas because I’m inspired by different things. I believe if everyone’s consuming the same things, everyone’s ideas will be the same. Instead of reading the most current marketing book, I’ll read a book from the 80s or 70s because the principles are all the same, but the information is going to be disseminated in a different way. You might get a different insight, they won’t be talking just about social media - they’re going to be talking about the thought process that went into developing the things that we think are commonplace today. I love the fact that I’m fascinated by things that other people aren’t fascinated by, because it allows me to come up with wacky ideas that other people wouldn’t generally come up with because they’re not exposed to the same things as I’m exposed to.
Which is funny, because you say you don’t consider yourself to be a “traditional” marketer, yet you sort of go back in time to be inspired.
Yeah, I do it all the time. I will read detective novels from the 70s and 80s because it has completely different thought processes, and completely different things. I may not take ideas from these books, but I’ll definitely be inspired by them or see something that’s interesting or funny and I’ll jot it down in my phone. I have a notepad in my phone where any idea I come up with - even if it’s not relative to what I’m working on right then and there - I’ll put it in there because one day (and it may take years) it’s something that may be really cool, or different, or unusual. I’ll just be walking along the street, and I get an idea, or see something on a TV show, and I’ll just jot it down so that if anyone ever did say “I need an idea in 5 minutes”, I can go through my inspiration folder and probably come up with something cool.
So that touched on what inspires you, but are there any people who have inspired you along the way in becoming a marketer?
These aren’t people I know personally, but they’re more like public figures. One of my greatest inspirations is William Gaines, the Founder of MAD Magazine - he’s such an interesting and fascinating guy. There’s a great book called “Days Gone MAD”, which is about working at MAD Magazine in the heydays, and I think this is one of the greatest culture books as far as business culture...but it’s not meant to be a culture book. It talks about how they kept the place interesting, how they kept it fun - the lengths they went to to make sure that people thought of MAD Magazine in a certain way. A long time ago, MAD Magazine was printed on this really, really crappy newsprint. There came a time where that newsprint was actually hard to find, and the printer wanted to upgrade them to a nicer paper. William Gaines didn’t want people thinking that MAD Magazine was going to get any better, so he paid more for the crappy paper to leave the look and the feel. He was paying more for the inferior paper so people wouldn’t expect better content. My favourite William Gaines story, and I’ve got 10 other people to talk about, was when he did this thing called ‘MAD Trips’. As he got older, he was a very wealthy man but apparently very cheap. However, he would splurge on certain things, and one year he decided he wasn’t going to give Christmas bonuses, but instead would do MAD Trips. He would take everyone in the office, about 40-50 staff members, on a trip to somewhere amazing like China, Japan, Russia - all throughout Asia, and Africa as well. Later in life, he developed this taste for food and wine and became sort of a foodie, but he wouldn’t want to go to a restaurant alone. He would read about an amazing restaurant in Italy, but he didn’t have a lot of friends that he worked with, so he’d take everybody.
My favourite story from that is the first trip he took them on was to Haiti. He didn’t tell anyone where they were going, just told them to pack for a certain climate and when they got off the plane they boarded a yellow school bus and drove deep into the jungle. The way he was able to write off this trip was that they hand-delivered to the only subscriber in Haiti, but then they stayed for a week and had this amazing trip. People would bring their kids and their spouses, and it would be a big event.
I’ve always loved reading about PT Barnum and things he would do to promote the circus. My favourite PT Barnum story is that in order to promote the Barnum and Bailey Circus coming to town, he would get one of his newest employees that didn’t really know the way of the land yet, put him in a really nice suit, and have him go into town and be seen and spend some money. What PT Barnum would do, without telling this person, is tell everyone that this person was a child molester. The people would follow this person, because of course they wanted to torture or kill him, and they would be led unwillingly to the Barnum and Bailey Circus. Once they would get there they’d kind of be like ‘well, while you’re here, why don’t you come in - the show’s about to start.’
There are so many amazing stories of people who have done really cool things. I’ve always been inspired by Penn and Teller and the fact that they do magic tricks and actually tell you what the trick is and dissect it, which violates every rule of magic. My list of people that inspire me is very long because I’m inspired by all of these amazing people that do really cool things - that’s something I love more than anything.
Out of all of your experiences, in all of the companies and brands you’ve worked with, what has been your favourite product to promote?
I would say I have never promoted a product. I’ve worked for a lot of brands, and I’ve promoted a lot of things, but I never talk about the product. I never talk about features or benefits - I always try to promote an idea, or a lifestyle. With Freshbooks (for those of you not familiar, Freshbooks is the #1 cloud accounting specialist for small business owners), I would always talk about the freedom, and being able to work for yourself while looking more professional. I’d never talk about the features and benefits, because if you go from the beginning to the end of all the features of a product, it’s about a ten minute conversation for most things. Out of that conversation, there’s nothing anybody would share. I would always talk about the things that come from the product, or the lifestyle, or the experiences. If you create experiences for people, and that’s kind of been the secret to everything I’ve done, people will share those experiences and emotions they had through your interaction. If a friend is telling you about something cool, and I’ll just make up a number here, 80% of the time you’re going to go check that out yourself. Then all of the tricks of calls to action, and the website, and everything will get you in. In the real world, which is where I like to live most of the time as opposed to being digital, I love just creating experiences because I believe that that far exceeds just talking about a product and how this is going to save you ten minutes a day or something. It’s more about creating something bigger than the product, and the product is just the happy beneficiary of all of what you do. I can’t say I have a favourite, I’ve done hundreds and hundreds of things - some on a small scale, some on a large scale - and I’m proud of 98% of what I’ve done. To pick a favourite would be hard.
Looking forward, what would be your dream project in marketing?
My absolute dream project would be, and as I mentioned earlier I’ve always been fascinated by pop culture and my love of film, to work for a film studio and be the marketing person for film releases. I’d love to work for a brand like Nike, just because it’s one of the two or three brands that I’m fiercely loyal to. Again, it’s never been about the product for me. The thing I’ve always wanted more, is freedom and autonomy to take calculated risks. A lot of times if you tell people ‘I want to do________’, and that blank is this fantastical and whimsical thing that people are going to go crazy over, it’s sometimes hard for people to see the value in it, or see the reason for doing it. That’s not a slight against anyone, but the fact is if you go to a CEO and say “I want to kidnap people” or “I want to do a 21-gun salute in the middle of a shopping mall”, even outside of these extremes, it’s a hard sell a lot of times. I’d love to work for Nike or a film studio, or a hair line, but I’m also just as happy working for a scrappy startup that’s willing to do really interesting things because that stuff is more important to me than who I work for. It’s great to say you have a fancy resume credit, but I’m much more interested in the actual role than who it’s for.
How does living in Toronto inspire you creatively?
Toronto is a really interesting city. There are so many things to see, amazing restaurants, interesting people, amazing street art, art installations, and you can see Broadway-calibre theatre. Everything you can imagine is in Toronto. There are a zillion opportunities for inspiration - you just have to keep your eyes open. I walk around the city sometimes, and take hundreds of pictures on my cell phone all the time, picking up anything that is interesting - any piece of street art, or even traditional flyers. As far as conversations go, there is a great number of interesting startups coming out of Toronto, and even mature companies. There are a lot of networking events and social activities where you can have conversations with people and leave with an idea, or leave re-energized. I think the people in Toronto are really fortunate to have such an interesting community. I don’t know if it’s appreciated, but it’s there if you want it.
You do a lot of traveling for conferences and speaking engagements, so outside of Toronto, what place inspires you the most?
I really love Portland, Oregon. I love so many different places for different reasons. New York City is one of my favourite cities in the world, but it’s my favourite because I have so many friends there, it’s got nothing to do with the culture or the neighbourhoods or anything. I like San Francisco for architecture, I like San Diego for weather, and Portland has this really interesting and creative vibe. Everyone there is just fascinating and willing to talk openly. I was in Minneapolis recently, I had never been before, and just walking through some of the neighbourhoods, they had Charles Schulz from Peanuts as a bronze statue in the downtown area. People don’t make a big deal about it, but I thought that was really cool. The commonality is people. Since I travel so much, I’ve been able to make some amazing friends in a lot of different places. The physical traveling part is not glamorous. People think it’s amazing - you get to stay in hotels every week, but I have literally woken up in the morning and not remembered what city I was in. At the same time, I’ve been exposed to many wonderful people who have shared many wonderful ideas. That has been enormously valuable and inspiring. It’s interesting how geography really changes the way people think, when you’re exposed to different things. I try to expose myself to different things, and even being in a different city and a different mindset...it really opens you up to different ideas.
What does the future hold for Saul Colt?
I don’t know. That’s the most interesting part of the future! I hope to continue having a career that people look at and are always sort of impressed by, and I hope to always do great work that touches people and creates amazing experiences for people. Five years ago, I wouldn’t have imagined where I am, so it’s hard to say where I’ll be five years from now. There’s an opportunity I could be running my own company, there’s an opportunity I could be running a bigger company for someone else, there’s an opportunity I could be the Prime Minister of Canada, or an Honourary Senator for the United States...I could be an astronaut. I never limit myself to thinking anything’s impossible. I know that’s super cliche but my mindset is that there are a lot of people who are ‘why?’ people, and I’m really more of a ‘why not?’ person. If somebody actually gave me an opportunity to go to another country or halfway around the world and try something, I’d probably jump at it. Why not? I never want to feel like my feet are in the mud, and I never want to feel like I’ve seen everything and done everything. There are always things out there that are amazing. I want to touch everything and see everything, and touch every one of the female gender, and to do that I need to not limit myself to anything. I find it interesting when people do limit themselves.
Do you have any advice for somebody just starting out in the marketing field?
I’ve given this advice a lot of times, and I always qualify it by saying it is bad advice, but it’s how I’ve always led my career. I don’t think anyone should take the same path as I have - I’m both a pioneer and a dinosaur. I’ve done all these things that people have never seen before, but at the same time, people are moving towards digital marketing like it’s the only thing. They don’t believe in real-world experiences anymore, so there will be a day when I am rendered redundant and useless. Until that day, I’ll keep swearing at people.
If you’re in a customer-facing role, always care more about your customers than you do your managers above you. The customers are the ones keeping the lights on in the business, and are the lifeblood of the company. You should always respect your managers, but if you’re the one with the closest contact to your customers, you’re going to know things. One of the most dangerous things a company can get into is when decisions are made on behalf of the customers, without ever talking to the customers.
Once or twice a year, I have an idea that is so good, it is worth getting fired over. With my own personality I have to do them, even if someone says no. I have been fired, but I’ve done these ideas, and they haven’t blown up in my face - they’ve been successful, because I trust my own instincts. I’m not aloof or casual, I over-think things and strategize. Sometimes when you present something, like ‘hey, we’re going to take people in a hot air balloon and drop them out the side’, it’s a really tough sell but sometimes your customers really want that experience. It might only be once or twice a year, but when you have something like that, you have to do it because that is how you’re going to get noticed in your career. That’s how you’re going to make a name for yourself, as long as you’re not reckless. Every time I’ve been fired, I’ve been able to land something better the next time. I don’t do these things to be reckless, you have to do what you believe in. The worst thing in the world is going home from work, and not wanting to go back the next day.
For more on Saul and his speaking and consulting, check him out here.
