moms will see their daughters and be like “is anyone gonna traumatize this girl about her physical appearance?” and then not wait for an answer

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@surviving-narcissistic-abuse
moms will see their daughters and be like “is anyone gonna traumatize this girl about her physical appearance?” and then not wait for an answer
Saying "there is no narcissistic abuse, that's just abuse" is like saying "you didn't get blisters from your sandals, you got them from shoes"
Myth: NPD is a trauma disorder.
Reality: Studies have been, at best, inconsistent at proving any association exists at all, with many studies finding no statistically significant association with childhood trauma while others do find statistically significant associations. There is not enough evidence yet to state this conclusion with any certainty. More to the point, enough people with no childhood trauma at all become narcissists that calling it a "trauma disorder", implying a singular causal pathway with child abuse, is a misnomer; even if we work from the premise that trauma is positively associated with NPD, trauma is simply one risk factor, not the only one. Calling NPD "a trauma disorder" is no more appropriate than calling arthritis "an aging disorder" or asthma "a pollution disorder." NPD is complex and trauma is sometimes, but not always, a part of the history of the person who has it, and there are genetic, environmental, and personality factors that are just as important as a history of abuse, even if we allow for that being a necessary factor for NPD to develop.
Did anyone else's narc parent delight in turning the enabler parent against you every chance they had?
That smirk they'd get when the enabler scolded you for making things difficult for them. When the enabler would ground you for being too difficult. When they'd "yes but they're your mom/dad" you. When they'd tell you "yes, I know (x) but you (y) so you have to understand." And every time, the narc would be standing behind them with that same look on their face. Because in that moment they won and they know it, they know they just crushed you and chipped away more and more at your trust in your other parent, and they are delighted.
remember when jkr went full mask off and started acting evil and hp fans were like "ok we need to think carefully about the stuff we consume, how can we justify enjoying this series, how can we love it without supporting the author? should we try to separate art from artist or should we leave it be? isn't showing solidarity to trans folks more important? if we remain openly fans of this series will it show trans people we aren't safe or trustworthy?"
and then they decided that none of those questions really mattered and they continued to uncritically consume their stupid badly written children's books, and jkr has only gotten more nasty and hateful, and people only hate trans folks more, and now the answer to the last question is invariably YES. I don't trust any goddamn person who still loves Harry Potter in 2024 bc you've decided your nostalgia about a mediocre story written by a bigot is more valuable than the safety and wellbeing of trans people 🫶🖕
Remember when trans people got death threats for saying they didn't want anything to do with people who bought Hogwarts Legacy?
I didn't realize how far the enshittification of all media had really gone until I started re-watching a TV show from 2008 and realized I could actually hear the dialogue and understand it clearly without subtitles or jacking up the volume painfully.
I'm not losing my hearing. My ADHD-based auditory processing isn't even worse.
Media, down the bones of sound mixing and lighting, is just shittier than it was a decade ago.
Businesses straight up stopped paying their sound producers. They know their viewers can't understand anything and they just don't care.
oh man... i fear i am irrevocably fucked up
dawned on me today that with abusive parents, that abuse starts soon as you pop out. so that abuse is ingrained in your psyche from day 1
Funny you should say this because just the other night I was talking to my nana, my mom's mom, who lamented to me that my mom was always jealous of me, a baby, getting attention- especially from my dad. She felt I was taking away from her/stealing away my dad's love. Me. The then-baby she chose to have. I was the last planned one (oops baby younger sibling that came after notwithstanding) so my dad doted on me a bit, enjoying what he thought was going to be the last time he had those days... and my mom took that personally! And then was surprised and angry I ended up preferring my dad to her! And then used that as the excuse for most of the abuse she doled out on me growing up, screaming that I clearly hate her/love my dad more, to guilt me into showing her more affection or giving things up for her!
It literally starts the day you're born!
I often felt like my parents were playing some sort of tug-of-war as well, but it was a rigged competition when my mother's abuse was so frequent and unpredictable; that didn't stop her from resenting me for preferring the clearly more loving parent in the house, and even going so far as to blow thousands of dollars on adoption agencies in an attempt to acquire a daughter who wasn't "just like him".
When I was far too young, I learned that even when a narcissist is looked dead in the eyes by their own child and told, "you're an abusive parent", they will not improve themselves or self-reflect even in the face of that horrific phrase exiting their child's mouth; they're too busy being personally insulted by a human 1/3 their size.
I'm so sorry.
My mom's preferred method wasn't threatening to give me away but rather harping on and on about how one day she'd die and then I'd be sorry I "treated her so badly" and etc...
This applies to nonromantic relationships too.
oh man... i fear i am irrevocably fucked up
dawned on me today that with abusive parents, that abuse starts soon as you pop out. so that abuse is ingrained in your psyche from day 1
Funny you should say this because just the other night I was talking to my nana, my mom's mom, who lamented to me that my mom was always jealous of me, a baby, getting attention- especially from my dad. She felt I was taking away from her/stealing away my dad's love. Me. The then-baby she chose to have. I was the last planned one (oops baby younger sibling that came after notwithstanding) so my dad doted on me a bit, enjoying what he thought was going to be the last time he had those days... and my mom took that personally! And then was surprised and angry I ended up preferring my dad to her! And then used that as the excuse for most of the abuse she doled out on me growing up, screaming that I clearly hate her/love my dad more, to guilt me into showing her more affection or giving things up for her!
It literally starts the day you're born!
Abuse survivor: Narcissistic abuse is real
Tumblr user with NPD, one post after explaining to all their followers that there is no such thing as narcissistic abuse, and that, people with NPD are actually THE most victimized group of all because "NPD is a trauma disorder": sounds like your parents had the right idea when they beat you as an eight year old! Maybe if you had been beat more you would understand you shouldn't advocate for yourself against abuse! That'll teach you to imply I could ever abuse someone!
It really is incredible, as someone who was on this site since 2009, to witness how the "narc abuse isn't real" community has silenced entire groups.
They were entirely silent on this issue, until the very first forum dedicated to helping survivors of narcissistic abuse- r/RaisedByNarcissists- became a popular subreddit in roughly 2013. From that moment on, the #1 goal of this community became silencing abuse victims by any means possible, and when that didn't work, it became manipulating the conversation to reframe themselves as the victims, not perpetrators, of abuse.
First, it was simple run-of-the-mill abuse minimization, denialism, and apologism aimed at posters. "You called your own mother (who beat you) a cunt in your post? You clearly aren't innocent." "You sound like a difficult child, I would have been tempted to hit you too." Things like that. These comments got very quickly removed, and moderation tightened enough that soon the abuser community realized infiltrating the sub directly was pointless.
So then they looked to other places their propaganda could gain a foothold- and of course Tumblr, famed as a site to give a voice to the voiceless, was the prime target. So then, in a few waves, with varying degrees of success, they tried some new tactics.
First was attacking the idea that any narcissistic traits are bad at all. "You can't say we should try to be nice to people, we can't help being this way." "I can't help it if I think everyone else is shit and I'm the only person alive who isn't a phony." Not coincidentally, this happened during a wave of autism acceptance advocacy, where "don't judge autistic people for misreading social cues" posts were common; the propagandists saw an opportunity to capitalize on these.
Next was pushing the idea that there is no difference between narcissism as a trait and NPD. Every arrogant, greedy bastard is actually someone with NPD, which means they can't help it, so you calling them a narcissist is hurting people with NPD and contributing to the stigma. In other words, they went from "we can't help being mean" to "everyone who is (insert narcissistic trait) has our disorder, so you shouldn't be calling people (insert narcissistic trait) at all."
Next was pushing back on the idea that narcissistic abuse is real, which is a natural escalation. "There is no such thing as a subtype of abuse, all abuse is the same, the only acceptable descriptors are physical, mental, and emotional" was the assertion here. While the accusations of ableism had been present from the start, around this time is when you could really see it start to get weaponized, to the point that just mentioning one was abused by a parent with NPD was enough to get accused; "why do you need to mention s/he had NPD unless you're trying to paint us all as abusers? Ableist POS!"
Also note: as the culture of Tumblr shifted to allowing more casually violent speech, death threats and suicide bait towards "ableists" became more acceptable as a result, and the abuse apologism increased exponentially.
This phase also continued to push the two previous claims. You can't call people a narcissist as an adjective, because that harms people with NPD. Similarly, you can't have an aversion to those traits, because that harms people with NPD, who just can't help being this way; this makes you ableist, and means, retroactively, that you deserved the abuse. Claims that "narcissistic abuse is actually just reactive abuse* caused by people being ableist to PWNPD" spiked, especially towards people who were children when they were abused by their parents with NPD.
*A form of abuse wherein an abuser will push their victim well past the breaking point to make their victim snap, then claim the victim is the real abuser; I'm sure that after reading this sentence alone you can see how easily coopted it is by abusers who claim their partner/child was actually the abuser and putting them in just this situation.
It had come full circle: a group of people who had been abused as children in a particular pattern were now being told they should have been abused, on the basis of their reaction to trauma offending people who don't like the term for that abuse. People with NPD were using the victimization of people discussing narcissistic abuse as a tool to further abuse them and attempt to subdue them. They had become another group of abusers.
This wasn't the end, though, as the claims continued to evolve to include the infamous, "actually, NPD is a trauma disorder," a claim that would subsequently be used (as with every other claim in this timeline) only to erase and downplay the abuse that RBN community had endured. Now, it wasn't enough to just claim that they "couldn't help it" and that their critics were ableist, but they had to also add the claim that not only had they too faced abuse, they had faced even worse abuse! Such abuse, in fact, that no matter what abuse was inflicted on an RBN community member, it would never be as bad as what this PWNPD had received. No matter how badly they abused someone, they would always be a bigger victim, and in turn, any victim who spoke about their experience of victimization was victimizing them, was being ableist, deserved their abuse, and deserved to have their trauma weaponized against them.
If you step off of Tumblr, everyone outside of a few pockets of enablers of narcissistic abuse knows that narcissistic abuse is real. Psychological experts, victims and advocates all know it. It's only Tumblr that has been so captured by this propaganda.
"NPD is a trauma disorder" truthers when abuse victims without NPD exist and tell them their trauma doesn't excuse abusing others in turn:
Maybe if you parents hit you harder you wouldn't have become a ableist
*Your parents **an ableist
Maybe if your parents hugged you more you wouldn't have succumbed to the brain rot.
Say it again and turn anons off. I'm sure the cluster B community would like to thank you in person for this excellent defense of their disorder.
This is, to me, the easiest way to prove that "narcissistic abuse isn't real" is nothing but propaganda by abusers that seeks to DARVO on a massive scale. So that instead of "narcissists commit a particular kind of abuse", it's "victims of abuse are victimizing people with NPD by describing their experiences, and this is proof they deserve to be hit."
It's actually frightening how perfect the 1:1 ratio is between the micro, interpersonal dynamics of narcissistic abuse and the macro dynamic committed by the "narcissistic abuse isn't real" community online to victims of narcissistic abuse. DARVO, check. Abusive language, check. Advocating for abuse, check. Claiming that narcissistic abuse is actually a reaction to being victimized by abuse victims, check. Claiming that actually, narcissists are the real victims, because NPD "is a trauma disorder" which means that even when narcissists are abusing someone, they're still the most victimized, check.
Narcissists literally play out one dynamic on their victims for years of abuse, and then when their victims find community with each other to understand their experiences, the narcissists come in to break these groups up and even claim they're being victimized by these groups. Why ever could that be happening?
Survivors of domestic violence: narcissistic abuse is real.
Survivors of childhood violence: narcissistic abuse is real.
Survivors of emotional and psychological abuse: narcissistic abuse is real.
Loved ones of survivors: narcissistic abuse is real.
Therapists specialising in abuse recovery: narcissistic abuse is real.
Experts in abnormal psychology: narcissistic abuse is real.
People with CTPSD: narcissistic abuse is real.
Psychologists studying the effect of long term abuse on the brain: narcissistic abuse is real.
People with diagnosed cluster B disorders: narcissistic abuse is real.
Disabled people who are more likely to be abused than abled people: narcissistic abuse is real.
The therapy prescribed to people diagnosed with cluster B disorders: narcissistic abuse is real.
Self identified "narcissists" on tumblr: nuh-uh.
…So just the effects of abuse?
So… JUST ABUSE?
It's almost like we classify types of abuse for a reason.
Yes, because physical and mental abuse are distinctly different, but like I’ve already shown, “narcissistic” abuse is not. Ironically, you just want to be special and set yourself apart from fellow victims of abuse. You also likely seek comfort in the idea that your abuser was innately flawed because you don’t want to accept any personal blame (rightly or wrongly, depending on the validity of the abuse allegations in question.)
How narcissistic of you…
"Narcissistic abuse isn't real because victims are to blame"
Ohwow.
It's really fucked up especially because the person @aftonsreprise responded to has a blog dedicated to CHILDHOOD ABUSE. Interesting. I would really like to know what blame @nothing0fnothing should have taken in any scenario as a goddamn child.
For the original post, no, that's not the effects of just "abuse". I've had 4 abusive relationships. My personality disorder (BPD) has tended in the past to lead me to destructive connections. Women that look like they would beat my ass were usually my type, and that's not a joke. It's based on the fact that the first women I fell for liked to physically hurt me while feeling me up. And still! The 3 people prior to the person with Narcissistic Personality Disorder did not cause me nearly the stress and trauma after leaving. In fact, two abusive relationships had almost no more effect than "thank God I'm finally free". It's been 4 years and I still struggle with the effects of the last relationship because she psychologically, physically, sexually, and emotionally tortured me. Because of her past trauma, of course, but she should still rot for it.
Narcissistic abuse is perpetuated for a different purpose, enacted in a different manner and has different effects on the people who survive it than non narcissistic abuse. In every way it is different and it is valid for survivors and specialists to acknowledge this.
Thank you for sharing, your experience matters.
The only people who would ever imply anyone, but especially a child, had any personal blame in being abused is an abuser.
Now why would an abuser have an interest in pretending narcissistic abuse isn't real? It's such a mystery, truly!
What a coincidence that the same people who say "you can't say narcissism is bad, that stigmatizes us poor babies with NPD" are also the same ones who say "you can't say abusive behavior is bad, people with NPD have that and we can't help it, you're discriminating against us."
It's almost like this "narc abuse isn't real" movement is propaganda made by abusers to take away all the frameworks that exist to call out abuse. I wonder why?
In what word does any human think it's perfectly acceptable.to tell someone else to go kill themselves bc you're disagreeing on a topic?
These guys cry about how narcissism and NP doesn't make you a toxic piece of shit, yet I've never seen so many violent threats and kys's ever before than from these guys...
@everyone Beware of these fuckers and stay safe.
You Never know if you telling someone to kill themselves actually ends up with their blood and death on your hands.
I may not like narcs and am absolutely 100% narc abuse is real, but that doesn't mean I'm going to tell someone who thinks it isn't real to go kill themselves!
Srsly!
"Narcissists don't hurt people, that's a myth, anyway I hope anyone who dislikes abusers kills themselves" they said with no hint of self-awareness. Very on brand