#b99 discourse

[heat-starved]

For the people who defend the comment that Gina makes in episode 2x18 of Brooklyn 99, the one about "Asexual nerds", I wasn't ever upset that Gina said those words, I get that it's within her character to say something like that.

I'm upset because A) for a show that boasts representation and inclusion, even writing something like this and adding it into the show, was a bad move. They talk about POC issues, WOC issues, women's issues, LGBTQ+ issues, and so much more, but they still somehow have the attitude that a joke like that was okay?

And B) for the asexual people who are basically saying, "Well, I'm asexual and I wasn't offended." That's just like saying, "Well I'm a woman and nothing a man has ever said to me was creepy." Or Yt people saying, "Well I've walked down the street and the police have never profiled me." Like, just because it didn't happen to you, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Just because you're a part of the community and you aren't offended, doesn't mean other asexual people aren't offended.

Don't get me wrong, I love this show, and still do to this day, but the fact that that comment was blown over like it was nothing, and the fact that there are Ace community members that have a toxic stance on this, made me want to say something.

- Sincerely, an Asexual

[meepmorpperaltiago]

Ok ok ok I know pretty much all of what I’m about to say has been said a bunch, but I need to say this and get this out (and to any poc reading this if I slip up in my assessments of this issue I’m so so sorry, obviously you can call me tf out) – there are two aspects/layers of this.

First of all, there’s the obvious fact that we need to acknowledge: b99 is a fictional show set in a fictional universe and it in no way reflects real life cops. If you’ve let it affect your real life perception of cops, you need to seriously think about the way you consume media.

There’s that separation – but then there’s the second issue. Even though it’s not real, it does affect real life. There are definitely parts of the show that promote the “a few bad apples” narrative and other toxic narratives – the way they arrest people without evidence and are presented as being in the right, the way defence attorneys are demonised, the way the bad cops are out of the precinct, separated from our main good guy cops.

As a fandom, we should acknowledge these issues and understand that it’s not right. And tbh, we can do that whilst still loving the show – and if we truly do love it we should want to look at the ways it could be better. That doesn’t necessarily mean picking out and calling out every single slip up (although obviously you have a right to do that if you want to). It just means thinking a little more, rather than promoting a blanket idea that b99 is this perfect, unproblematic show that can never do any wrong.

[nathanhaley]

Will you feel comfortable watching B99 with the BLM and anti-police thing going on? I'm trying to feel okay about the show but I just can't :(

i’ve thought a lot about it and i’m super biased because it’s my favourite show and i don’t think anything would stop me from watching it but yes of course i am.

first of all, as long as you engage critically with the show and recognise that it isn’t an accurate portrayal of the real world then its okay to watch it. news flash - sometimes its okay to watch a show that isn’t totally realistic, know and acknowledge that this is the case, and then switch off your brain and just enjoy it!! do we really believe that all crime stops on halloween for their heists? no, but we go along with it anyway.

which next point - its fictional. i don’t know when we started looking to a fictional show to be a moral compass but that’s wrong. of course there are bits that are uncomfortable and wrong (hello, gintars) but sometimes things can be just enjoyed as a form of escapism because if it were realistic then you may as well watch the news. 

and the last thing i’ve come to realise is that every tv show positions its main characters as heroes. parks and rec makes you root for a bureaucrat, glee glorified a sociopathic bully in all the characters santana lopez, and like even gossip girl started with chuck bass sexually assaulting a girl, and yet we’re positioned to root for them. thats just what fiction does. as long as you know this is the case and critically engage then thats the main thing.

[jokes-peralta]

Hey please don’t feel bad about posting b99 content. If you work hard on something, esp if it’s for Pride, post it. Watching a show about fictional cops doesn’t make you less of an ally. The fictional characters you love doesn’t take away from your support for Black people. I know your hearts in the right place but concern over edits is the lowest priority. Don’t be ashamed of your edits as long as your activism is there.

Hey anon idk if you’re sending this to everyone or if you mixed me up with someone else. I haven’t made an edit since like February because I’m a very lazy person lmao. Just wanted to let you know in case you sent your message to the wrong person.

Regardless of that, I agree with your sentiment. I don’t agree with people shaming creators for posting b99 pride gifsets when that is such a huge and important part of the show. We do this every year and we should be proud that the show we love has representation like that. That being said, I also understand that a lot of people don’t want to see gifs of the show right now and there’s a time and place for everything. I really don’t have a solution for this and what we should and shouldn’t do as fans of the show. In all honesty, I kinda hate how so many people, me included, have spent so much energy on debating this topic. I know that fandom is such a big part of our lives but it honestly seems so unimportant at this moment. Obviously I believe that this discourse needs to be discussed. I’m also super glad that this fandom for the most part has acknowledged that this show is indeed cop propaganda and has delved into what that means and how that can affect the real world. We HAVE to discuss it. We HAVE to look at the media we consume with a critical eye so that we can learn from it. And by learning from it, we can make better and more educated choices of what we want to support and how we want to support it. We have to take this knowledge and reflect on it because what is the point if we don’t. That being said, seeing all the debate on whether or not the show should be cancelled, or whether people are gonna keep watching the show, or whether the cast/writers should do something, or whether b99 fans should be shamed for liking something problematic just feels like noise right now. No one has the correct answers to any of this. The shows not even on right now. We don’t even know when they can start production for season 8. I believe in the importance of discourse and discussion, now more than ever, but I just really hope everyone’s doing their part in this movement and not just worrying about a tv show because believe me, I’m struggling right now with that too.

[wanderlust-and-rainbows]

Brooklyn 99 just completely fucked up Amy's character, and I'm so angry about it. Amy would NEVER have behaved the way she did in Casecation.

Like... threatening to leave your partner for not immediately wanting to commit to a major life decision, blackmailing/manipulating your partner in order to get what you want...

If I knew someone whose spouse did that to them I would tell them to get to a marriage counselor immediately. (That's a lie, I'd tell them to get a divorce) It was so gross and I CANNOT believe they would do that to Amy's character.

[egrets]

can you speak for towards why jake isn't queerbaiting? i totally agree with you that saying that jake's attraction to men maybe could be interpreted as queerbaiting but it just doesn't feel that way to me and i can't explain why. (and it's NOT my inherent desire to defend b99 against criticism. i promise you) i think eleanor on tgp is a better ex. of queerbaiting since it seems like the show wants credit for her being bi w/o actually showing it. i never get that vibe from b99. what do u think?

this isn’t going to be very articulate, so my apologies. i’m also just getting off doing a queer ecological crit of jekyll & hyde, so my mind is set more on victorian london than anything.

anywhom. queerbaiting, from my understanding, is an intentional tactic used to attract lgbtq audiences – in a sense, teasing a character’s identity or a relationship between two characters in an attempt to draw more viewers or to simply appeal to a wider audience (think of that one post that’s like “straight people get to worry about the plot” when it comes to media with lgbtq rep). and before rosa’s coming out, i would have (maybe) tentatively placed jake and rosa in this queer-baiting category. however, now that rosa’s sexuality is very present on the show and holt’s sexuality has always been present on the show, i feel that it’s inaccurate to say that the writers are queerbaiting – intentionally or unintentionally – with jake. they aren’t trying to attract more viewers by maybe perhaps suggesting that jake is bi, because sexuality has always been an integral part of the show. instead, jake is perhaps coded as queer/bi, which i honestly don’t see as a problem? in the past, villains have often been coded queer, and while it’d be nice to have jake be explicitly bi, i think it’s also nice that viewers can still associate queerness with a character that is so good (usually). even if jake is never Revealed as bi, that aforementioned positive reinforcement is still present. 

i would say, however, that eleanor is a more accurate example of queerbaiting. the show has no other queer rep, so actors and writers saying that eleanor is bi or simply suggesting it does not provide actual representation. thus, it’s a way for the show to draw viewers in (i’m not saying it’s necessarily malicious, but it is very disappointing). 

of course, whether or not you see jake currently coded as bi as a problem is your opinion, and the topic is often something very personal to people.

[tiberelechat]

A Hot Take on Brooklyn Nine-Nine

okay so

There has been a lot of Discourse, with the cancellation and then the rescue of this lovely lil’ show, about whether it’s all Ideologically Acceptable to root for a show about cops. With a big argument being that B99 subscribes to the “not all cops are bad, it’s just a few rotten apples” argument, which, yeah, indeed, is Bad, for I hope pretty self-evident reasons

Thing is, I really don’t think that’s accurate. Yes, the show does have positive characters that are cops - but the point feels much less “not all cops”, and more “all cops, just not these ones”. And there’s a big difference there.

I mean, look at the five series and 100+ episodes of the show. Outside of the main squad, how many positive figures have you seen in the police force ...? There was the lady running for captain in the latest batch of episodes, true - who was stopped at every turn by the system. I guess you had that big name detective at the end of series 2, but even him seemed more interested in getting into Amy’s pants and being a walking Cool Stereotype.

Literally every other figure of authority in the show is rotten. Wuntch? Obviously. The commissioner is obsessed by fame and wants to get credit for catching serial killers more than anything (cf. “The Oolong Slayer”). Prisons are petty hellholes; other captains are nuisances, when they’re not in the pocket of the mafia. The elite taskforce charged to suppress gangs robs banks and frames innocents. Good cops like Holt face discrimination and harassement; all the characters, in some form or another, end up in conflict with the larger hierarchy at some point.

B99′s point isn’t that cops are nice people, deep down. It’s that it’s worth it to strive for good in a fucked system. I mean sure, it doesn’t exist in isolation, and in a world that’s filled to the brim with shows about Heroic Cops, its very existence and aesthetics can sort of feed this narrative. But it’s a lot smarter, and a lot better than that.

[darkcheshire7]

This probably has already been said

But I’m not known for being original, so here it goes.

The fact that Jake Peralta is comfortable talking about males and appreciating them without fear is not only important because it implies that he is bisexual (that, in my opinion he is, but that’s another post) but is also important because it opens the possibility that men can appreciate other men and not be ashamed of it.

In general girls are allowed to comment on others girls bodies without fear, you could say that it’s even normal. But men are only allowed to talk about female bodies (and the more brute and rude the comment, the better).

So the fact that Jake is constantly dropping comments on how he sees and appreciates men’s bodies opens up a new world of opportunities. Men shouldn’t be ashamed of observing other men.

So from the comfort of my kitchen chair I personally wanna thank Jake Peralta for being such an amazing human being.